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but to ur dismay no burdak jat is there. they r instead perhaps saurautsOriginally Posted by lrburdak
but to ur dismay no burdak jat is there. they r instead perhaps saurauts
i opine the same with u. but napoleon savescue opines that romania was centre of jatism????
bhiduki village contains nohwar chohan jats and nauhjhil is found in muttra gazeteer and central asia also
Migration Trails of Jats settled in Haryana-
Some Haplogroups prevelant among Haryana Jats:
Haplogroup J2 (M172)- found on the Y-Chromosome. Today, its high frequency is found in North Africa, the Middle East, and South Europe.
Haplogroup M (mitochondrial DNA): High frequency ofthis haplogroup are found in population living in Southern Pakistan and Northwest India. Rarely found in people living west of the Indus Valley and is found in low frequency in the Central Asian population.Haplogroup M (from mitochondrial DNA). Individuals containing this marker are referred to as Coastal Migrants.
Haplogroup R (from mitochondrial DNA): Common ancestors of the individuals harboring this haplogroup were of Western Eurasian Lineage. Decendants live in high frequency in Turkey/Caucaus and Iranian region. The decendants also moved back into North Africa from these regions. Some moved into the caucaus mountains of Georgia and South Russia, middle east and into Central Asia.
Attention seekers and attention getters are two different class of people.
Source please?
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Personal collection obtained via the National Geographic's Genographic Project.
Attention seekers and attention getters are two different class of people.
I watched one episode of their documentary. Was interesting. But told more of an individual story. I am waiting for a specific study on Jats that can be achieved only through a statistically significant finding on a significant Jat population.
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The haplogroups mentioned have been compiled from representatives of 4 jat gotras:
Hooda, Duhan, Bhanwala, and Dahiya. I would therefore be cautious in calling it an individual story.
What I found interesting is that the 'Costal Migrant' gene pool (through the maternal DNA) is part of Haryana Jat population. This to me indicates that women from varied and far off geographical locations were accommodated in the community. Cheers!
Last edited by urmiladuhan; October 26th, 2009 at 10:01 PM.
Attention seekers and attention getters are two different class of people.
Sorry for the misunderstanding. I was not talking about your results. I was talking about the documentary I watched. As that was a collection of individual stories of several people from various parts of the globe rather than being a concerted study of one community. Concerted studies of communities are also being done. Have read about some of them, but haven't seen anything on Jats yet.
So did you mean that your results were based on samples known to you? Can you also please explain the results? How many samples were there? And is it usual to get 3 haplogroups in the same community? Or does it mean that the community doesn't have a unique source and is a result of intermingling of different types? Or the different haplogroups have different origins in time indicating one source followed by mixing with new types over a period of time?
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Please don't apologise!
Let me see what I can do as I will need to dig up the details of the result.
Attention seekers and attention getters are two different class of people.
Let me ask some questions regards this hypothesis:
1) The jats the way they are identified in terms of caste and gotra, do we trace these institutions or some of their remnants from Central Asia.
2) The so-called Aryan civilisation when identified by Painted grey ware (PGW) have their sites all splayed in the Indo-gangetic belt. Do you correspond some kind of links between the communities and their migrations through these. If not then how these PGW cultures flourished in the jat belt of today.
3) We have record of migration in the form of Budhism as an archaeological evidence, do we have any thing of that kind for the so called identified 'jats
4) jat is more of medieval identity and it is essentially plural stock it nowhere resembles a homogenous group that would have come to existence of singular migration, perhaps there are Mediterranean racial stocks also joined this group and created a later day identity of jats.
The better hypothesis is that certain Central Asian tribes came an merged into already existent communities which later emerged as conglomerate culture called Jats.
Tks!
Last edited by Ambijat; October 26th, 2009 at 11:26 PM.
Keep a bigger heart than than what you had yesterday!
Can somebody provide the evidence that the ethnic stocks mentioned above indeed contributed in pure terms to the emergence of Jats. The very fact that plurality of origin is denied curtails the basic process of emergence of castes and the ethnic identities.
Phonetic arguments are very misleading after all again I say the Mills and Gills of India have nothing to the Mills and Gills of UK.
If some body wishes to see this as a model. Then this should also explain the origins of Pathans and Rajputs and Gurjars. I doubt they take this theory. And if they do take then why there is so antagonism among all of them.
Last edited by Ambijat; October 26th, 2009 at 11:36 PM.
Keep a bigger heart than than what you had yesterday!
Ambrishji,
We have two full books on line on Jatland Wiki to provide answers to yours questions. Kindly go through them . These links are -
http://www.jatland.com/home/Jats_the..._(A_clan_study) - Book by Bhim Singh Dahiya, IRS
http://www.jatland.com/home/History_...dy_of_the_Jats - Book by Prof. B.S. Dhillon
Regards,
Laxman Burdak
So did you mean that your results were based on samples known to you? Can you also please explain the results? How many samples were there? And is it usual to get 3 haplogroups in the same community? Or does it mean that the community doesn't have a unique source and is a result of intermingling of different types? Or the different haplogroups have different origins in time indicating one source followed by mixing with new types over a period of time?[/QUOTE]
The genetic analysis of four samples was undertaken out of personal curiosity.
It is possible to have multiple haplogroups in an individual sample.
As per the genographic project report, what this means is that the anayzed samples have genetic markers in them that are also present in population elsewhere in the world such as Europe, Africa, Middle East, East Asia, Indian Subcontinent etc.
These markers are accidental mutations whose occurrence time and place is known. Hence they are used to generate a geographical migration pattern of the ancestors of individuals containing these markers.
The fact that the analyzed samples have these markers that are also present in other world population shows that these populations have common ancestors.
There is substantial information on the internet on these haplogroups and their timeline.
Last edited by urmiladuhan; October 27th, 2009 at 01:50 PM.
Attention seekers and attention getters are two different class of people.
The books sociological and historical premises are well questionable on the following grounds:
1) When we use the term Jat what time frame is reserved for that terminology? It is the present reference frame and then we would like to stretch it to more than 2000 years back.
2) what about the social division of labour. Did it not occur with in the Jats, if so then there must be common origin with other castes. As often claimed for Jats and Rajput gotras.
3) If there is ethnic identity that is referred here then the social processes that have governed them must have universal acceptable logic.
All these things are necessary because jats cannot claim any exclusive sociology and history of origin. They came from where all the others came. If others do not have something similar to say so then certainly there it is equally more academic challenge that how such a community remained unchanged through out more than 2000 years of history, which no case points out to be.
Migrations is very difficult thing when we see names of gotras being found in Afghanistan. But, there needs to be certain careful look at the communities that are the present occupants. For example if someones want to claim Burdak and Wardak have commonality good enough to define a relationship. Then it equally important to explain the relationship between Burdak jats and Wardak Pathan, who are mostly Ghilzai Pathans.
The debate on origins are equally intense among Pathans just as the Jats eagerly seek to search. The Jewish connection is also seen as one of the probablities both among the jats and pathans.
I hope these adjuncts help clear mist over the need for scientific paradigms clearly differentiating the origin, the evolution and the migrations as independent processes in the creation of Jats.
Tks!
Keep a bigger heart than than what you had yesterday!
Your reference to finding are very encouraging, in fact they dispel any notions of monotheistic origins of jats. And, the reference to source groups from Europe and Africa etc only establish firmly the fact that jats are racially plural group. So, jats of today not only have central Asia in their blood. They might very well be referred to Mediterranean stocks too.The genetic analysis of four samples was undertaken out of personal curiosity.
It is possible to have multiple haplogroups in an individual sample.
As per the genographic project report, what this means is that the analyzed samples have genetic markers in them that are also present in population elsewhere in the world such as Europe, Africa, Middle East, East Asia, Indian Subcontinent etc.
These markers are accidental mutations whose occurrence time and place is known. Hence they are used to generate a geographical migration pattern of the ancestors of individuals containing these markers.
The fact that the analyzed samples have these markers that are also present in other world population shows that these populations have common ancestors.
There is substantial information on the internet on these haplogroups and their timeline.
Keep a bigger heart than than what you had yesterday!
Jat people have mostly R1A1 the same haplogroup is found in indian higher caste and east euresian people i am not sure about J2 but this haplogroup is also found in brahmin and rajput it is related to jews also
many things are written wrong about jat in sites because a lot of people here on internet do nothing but edit things related to jat but jat have more R1A1 than any other caste including brahmin and khatri
chamar of punjab are also r1a1
If taken into consideration all the aspects like blood group, archaeological evidences, historical and traditional accounts etc. together, Jats definitely point to have belonged to central Asian region in ancient times.
History is best when created, better when re-constructed and worst when invented.
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