HOUNOR KILLINGS IN INDIA AND JATs

[R2delhi]

Agrees 100% with you pragya. Most importantly how many of us can afford and tolerate this activity from our family members (specially girls) which will lead us to big time social shame. Secondly, it's the easiest job available on earth to criticise others but when it came to us (may god will save us from these stuff in our life) i am sure none of us can restrict himself doing anything less than this. Though, no support for the parants also. After all we are human beings and we should act like what the god has made us.

R2Delhi

well this is a serious problem,but one thing i will say that family honour is primarily above love n all, i don't understand when people know that their family won't allow them to get marry then why they get involved themselves in such kind of relationship. I can't figureout why girls go against their parents wish.
want to say--------- 'jo apne maa baap ke sage nahi hote vo apas me kya nibhayenge' . love means to sacrifice 4 others........n one more thing we must respect 'rishtey' getting eloped with lover is not a solution it's a poblem ........ u can't runaway from those who has brought u in this world,
tookcare.....
love is blind n all is 'bakwas'......
but killing the so called lovers is also not appreciable, u can't kill someone just becoz they got married against yr wish.......

[jatriski99]

kyounki dil pe kisi ka jor nahi chalta..... madam ji

ye kitabi bateen hai.................be practical........

[jagmohan]

Dear All,

A very sad incident indeed and unfortunately not the last one, as these things will happen again. As people become more and more educated and aware, especially the girl child, there are bound to be questions raised against traditions and customs. The older generation will do what they think as right and the newly educated and liberated young minds will question them. This is a fact of the matter and there is no way out as no one is willing to acknowledge that there is a problem that exists in the villages. In cities no one has the time to notice such things but in the villages people have lot of time for ‘noticing’, in fact many do nothing but do only this.

Is this ‘so called honor killing’ justified? No. Should concerned persons be punished? Yes, as quickly as possible. Was it right for the young couple to do what they did? The mind says, what they did was no crime, but the heart says otherwise. And it is this dilemma that will face our community (and all others who have this gotra system) in times to come. There is a very old and apt saying about brotherhood and ‘Bhaichara’ and it goes like this: “Bhai sabse pehle Gaam Ka, pher Got ka, pher Gavhand ka, pher Jaat (caste) ka, pher Paat ka, pher Desh ka aur pher Bhesh ka” (This has been mentioned by another worthy member in another post).

Now the question is: What to do? There is no way our community and its members, educated or otherwise, would accept girls and boys from the same village get into a situation where they either elope or get married. They may have been affairs between girls and boys in the villages, but our community would not accept these things openly. I don’t foresee marriages taking place in the same gotra in the next 1000 years. I may be wrong but I have had a little experience of living in a village and have tried to understand the mindset of those who live there, some of them even very educated ones.

The role of a woman or mother who remains a key factor in deciding the future of the girl child needs to be seriously looked into. As long as women are treated the way they are in the villages, nothing will improve. It is necessary for the womenfolk to come out of this vicious circle of ‘wanting to have a male child’ and thinking of a male child as one who would be a harbinger of prosperity. For that to happen, girls must be allowed to own ancestral property including land. The whole outlook of the community needs an overhaul. I know it is easier said than done but then there is no other way.

As for the departed souls, may God rest their souls in peace.

Regards,

JS Malik

[jatriski99]

paragya ji kaafikuch achi baatein kahi..grls r nt at all 4 marriages n machines to produce children..all ths luv pyar mohabbat crap hai theek hai..bt we cant justify it like tht..if the grl was left over by her husband then do u want her to follow those old rituals f livin in isolation for whole f her life nd accept it as it comes..sab khush rehtey agar woh ghar mey akeli apni khushi ko maar kar rehti..or ussi ladki ney taxi driver k sath kya khushi dhoondh li saarey smaaj ki aankh mey chubh gai..or maar diya gaya usko..good justifications..!!

thn ur last lines dosnt do justice to the topic.. if parents dosnt allow to marry a grl accrding to her wish..thn y shall she stay quiet or acept it like tht only..we shud lite the tourch in th minds f parents nd tell thm tht the grls r nt mere objects bt living citizens with equal rights n they hav the right to choose..although the graph is goin down bt still there is need to enlighten some poor n hypocryte souls..!!

samay tezzii sey badal raha hai...humko bhi ussi tarah badalna hoga...warna kaafi kuch sehna padega..!!

see agar hum es tarah ki ghatnaon ke piche karan jane to samagh ayega ki jo hamara samajik system hai usme bahut khamiyan hai, pheli baat gaon mein ladki ko sirf ghar ki chaar diwari tak rakha jata hai, uski sooch develop nahi ho pati, vo ache bure mein antar nahi kar sakti......
es case mein ........ab jab shaadi ke baad uska talak ho gaya aur vo apne parents ke ghar mein hain to jhahir si baat hai uski 'manstithi' ko samajna parents ka kaam hai aur uski zindagi ko ek disha dikhana unka farz hai taki uske paas jine ki koi vajah bacche, nahi to vo bhatak jayegi jo yahan par hua.
dusri baat hum apna dayara apne parivaar tak hi bana kar rakhte hai, kyon nahi samaj ke liye acche kaam kare taki humen ek disha milegi aur tabhi to samaj mein chetna phelegi. kya koi parent apne bacchon se kahata hai ki tum samaj ke liye jiyo .........nahi .........sab apne liye jeete hai..........tabhi to burai samaj mein phel rahi hai, apradh badh rahe hai.......bhai bhai ko maar raha hai, baap beti ka rape kar raha hai.........aaj samaj ko acche logon ki jarurat hai....hum sab bhatke hue hain.......

is mamle mein gaon vale khete hain ki humne jo kiya accha kiya kyon ki ladka ladki ek 'gotra' ke the to bhai bhen hue.......... now the question arises n tell me how many of you favour marriage in the same 'gotra'? justify it........
one of my best frnd a jat grl from rhotak left her boyfriend 4 her parents just becoz boy's grandmother n her grandmother were of the same gotra........she went through the pain....but then she left him.......
my frnd from punjab a jat boy left his grndfriend 4 her mother becoz they were from the same village..........can't marry.........he went thruogh the pain..........I respect them.......that's love...........first understand it........there's a wall between love n lust...........

[navingulia]

1. ek pakshi ka bachcha bada hokar apna ghonsla alag banata hai, use apni udaan aazad bharne ka adhikar hota hai. uke maa baap use janam dene me apni mahaanta nahin dikhaate hain.
2. ek pashu samaj bhi apne bachchon ko apna jeevansaathi chun ne ka adhikar deta hai. unka paalan poshan karne ka ahsaan nahin jatata. 'parent' to har koi ban sakta hai, kintu sirf 'parent' hona unhe mahaan nahin bana sakta.
3. Itihaas bhi jab is kisse ko yaad karega to thookega hamare samaj pe. (aaj koi siri, farhaad ya laila majnu pe nahin thookta, sab us samaj pe thookte hain jisne unhe milne nahin diya.
4. mata, pita janam dete hain aur bachcha us jeevan ko jeeta hai ye prakriti ka niyam hai. us niyam ko mat todo. Apni jhooti aan, false ego, false pride, jealous possessiveness ki bali mat chadhaao bachchon ko. Bachchon ko aisi haalat me mat laa ke khada karo ki wo bol paden "aapne hame janam hi kyuun diya???"

pothi padh padh jag muan, pandit bhaya na koy, dhaai aakhar prem ka padhe so pandit hoe.

====
Quran me, Geeta me, Bible me kahin likha hai aisa?? Ramayan me, mahabharat me kahin hai udaharan ki koi ladki apne premi ke saath rahne lagi to use waapas laake uske maa, baap aur bhaaiyon ne maar diya?

us beti ne to us gaam ka ya maa baap ka naam nahin duboya tha kintu us gaam ke badon ne aisa dhabba lagaya hai maanavta pe, itihas bhi yaad karega

=======
Radha ne krishna se prem kiya tha vivah nahin, kintu samaj aaj bhi radhe shyam bolta hai (krishnas wife was rukmini)

andhe ko deekhe nahin, kya us se ho bair,
aankh munde jag pada, kaun manaae khair

======
is jag ki samasya wair hai, prem nahin

bus ab aur nahin likhunga is thread pe. jisnai apne baalak maarne ho, maar liyo bhai

[navingulia]

Respected Jagmohan Sir,
You are one generation senior to me. It is a treat and inspiration to see how nicely you think and speak.
Thanks

Dear All,

A very sad incident indeed and unfortunately not the last one, as these things will happen again. As people become more and more educated and aware, especially the girl child, there are bound to be questions raised against traditions and customs. The older generation will do what they think as right and the newly educated and liberated young minds will question them. This is a fact of the matter and there is no way out as no one is willing to acknowledge that there is a problem that exists in the villages. In cities no one has the time to notice such things but in the villages people have lot of time for ‘noticing’, in fact many do nothing but do only this.

Is this ‘so called honor killing’ justified? No. Should concerned persons be punished? Yes, as quickly as possible. Was it right for the young couple to do what they did? The mind says, what they did was no crime, but the heart says otherwise. And it is this dilemma that will face our community (and all others who have this gotra system) in times to come. There is a very old and apt saying about brotherhood and ‘Bhaichara’ and it goes like this: “Bhai sabse pehle Gaam Ka, pher Got ka, pher Gavhand ka, pher Jaat (caste) ka, pher Paat ka, pher Desh ka aur pher Bhesh ka” (This has been mentioned by another worthy member in another post).

Now the question is: What to do? There is no way our community and its members, educated or otherwise, would accept girls and boys from the same village get into a situation where they either elope or get married. They may have been affairs between girls and boys in the villages, but our community would not accept these things openly. I don’t foresee marriages taking place in the same gotra in the next 1000 years. I may be wrong but I have had a little experience of living in a village and have tried to understand the mindset of those who live there, some of them even very educated ones.

The role of a woman or mother who remains a key factor in deciding the future of the girl child needs to be seriously looked into. As long as women are treated the way they are in the villages, nothing will improve. It is necessary for the womenfolk to come out of this vicious circle of ‘wanting to have a male child’ and thinking of a male child as one who would be a harbinger of prosperity. For that to happen, girls must be allowed to own ancestral property including land. The whole outlook of the community needs an overhaul. I know it is easier said than done but then there is no other way.

As for the departed souls, may God rest their souls in peace.

Regards,

JS Malik

[ygulia]

well this is a serious problem,but one thing i will say that family honour is primarily above love n all, i don't understand when people know that their family won't allow them to get marry then why they get involved themselves in such kind of relationship. I can't figureout why girls go against their parents wish.
want to say--------- 'jo apne maa baap ke sage nahi hote vo apas me kya nibhayenge' . love means to sacrifice 4 others........n one more thing we must respect 'rishtey' getting eloped with lover is not a solution it's a poblem ........ u can't runaway from those who has brought u in this world,
tookcare.....
love is blind n all is 'bakwas'......
but killing the so called lovers is also not appreciable, u can't kill someone just becoz they got married against yr wish.......

It is not clear what you want to say.
On one hand you justify the parents and on other hand you do not justify killings. It will be better if you write your thoughts clearly.
I will say kids should be above social pride of parents. Things are clear; parents could not handle the situation and committed this heinous crime in the name of social pride. There were still lots of solutions with parents to deal with this problem. Parents are not fulfilling their responsibility in this modern world. They think that they have to provide only financial support. They never sit down with their kids, discuss their problems and behave with them like friends. Had they done like this, they would not have been in the present situation. In the nut shell, I would like to say that 100% fault lies with the parents and the villagers, who instigated them in the name of so called social pride, are equally responsible for these killings.

[spdeshwal]

एक सफ़ेद चादर का निर्माण आपने हाथो से किया !
इस मी तुम्हारा सारा अस्तित्व सिमट आया !
फ़िर एक दीन पता चला वो चादर मैली हो गई !
आप अपनी चादर पर लगे धब्बे से कुपित हो कर उसे नष्ट कर देते हैं!
फ़िर पता चला , धब्बा चादर पर नही उनके मन मस्तिस्क पर था , जो ज्यूँ का तों है!
अब दो दो दुःख हैं , एक अपनी बनाईं चादर पर लगे धब्बे का , दूसरा उसे अपने ही हाथो अपनी ही बनाईं चादर नस्ट करने का !
कोनसा दुःख बड़ा है ?

[ranjitjat]

Dear All,

A very sad incident indeed and unfortunately not the last one, as these things will happen again. As people become more and more educated and aware, especially the girl child, there are bound to be questions raised against traditions and customs. The older generation will do what they think as right and the newly educated and liberated young minds will question them. This is a fact of the matter and there is no way out as no one is willing to acknowledge that there is a problem that exists in the villages. In cities no one has the time to notice such things but in the villages people have lot of time for ‘noticing’, in fact many do nothing but do only this.

Is this ‘so called honor killing’ justified? No. Should concerned persons be punished? Yes, as quickly as possible. Was it right for the young couple to do what they did? The mind says, what they did was no crime, but the heart says otherwise. And it is this dilemma that will face our community (and all others who have this gotra system) in times to come. There is a very old and apt saying about brotherhood and ‘Bhaichara’ and it goes like this: “Bhai sabse pehle Gaam Ka, pher Got ka, pher Gavhand ka, pher Jaat (caste) ka, pher Paat ka, pher Desh ka aur pher Bhesh ka” (This has been mentioned by another worthy member in another post).

Now the question is: What to do? There is no way our community and its members, educated or otherwise, would accept girls and boys from the same village get into a situation where they either elope or get married. They may have been affairs between girls and boys in the villages, but our community would not accept these things openly. I don’t foresee marriages taking place in the same gotra in the next 1000 years. I may be wrong but I have had a little experience of living in a village and have tried to understand the mindset of those who live there, some of them even very educated ones.

The role of a woman or mother who remains a key factor in deciding the future of the girl child needs to be seriously looked into. As long as women are treated the way they are in the villages, nothing will improve. It is necessary for the womenfolk to come out of this vicious circle of ‘wanting to have a male child’ and thinking of a male child as one who would be a harbinger of prosperity. For that to happen, girls must be allowed to own ancestral property including land. The whole outlook of the community needs an overhaul. I know it is easier said than done but then there is no other way.

As for the departed souls, may God rest their souls in peace.

Regards,

JS Malik

I fully agree with Col Malik Sahib. This is very serious problem.
Thank you all for taking part and expressing your views
freely and fairly on this very sensitive issue.

[ranjitjat]

Honour killing
Four arrested, remanded


Karnal, May 11
Two days after a pregnant woman and her lover were strangled to death in a village near here by her relatives, the police has arrested four persons, including the girl’s father, in connection with the honour killing.

The four — Om Prakash of Ballah village, the father of 23-year-old Sunita, two relatives Rajesh and Ram Mehar, and one Dharamveer - were arrested last night and produced before a duty magistrate today.

The court in Assandh town of the district has remanded the four to a 14-day judicial custody.

Even as four persons were arrested, no organisation, including the state government, had condemned the incident of honour killing.

Interestingly, Chief Minister Bhupinder Singh Hooda and a battery of his ministers and MLAs and MPs from different parties are camping in Karnal for the past several days for canvassing for Indri bypoll, but no one had reacted to the incident that had shock the region.

Sunita and Jasbir, both of the Jat community, were murdered and their bodies were displayed outside the family house in Balla village, apparently as a warning to others who might try to emulate the “immoral act” on Friday.

The family had strong reservations over the couple’s relationship as Sunita’s marriage was annulled due to her extra-marital affair.

The police said Dharamveer was the driver of one of the vehicles in which Sunita and Jasbir were bundled into after a mob pulled them out of a house in Phurlak village on Thursday night.

Though the police had registered a case against 20 persons, it has failed to arrest others.

Meanwhile, the Panipat police clarified that the couple was not forcibly taken from Neelam’s residence at Macchroli village, where they were reportedly residing for the past few months.

Panipat district police chief M.S. Sheroan said some family members of the girl had contacted the sarpanch of Macchroli village on Friday before entering Neelam’s house.

“Our investigation revealed that the family members of Sunita had told the sarpanch that they were keen to take the couple back to the village with their consent. There was no basis that the couple was taken forcibly from the Panipat village,” he claimed.

Sheroan said no crime took place in Panipat district and it was up to the Karnal police to investigate the brutal murders.

[cooljat]

Jaggu Uncle,

I second & admire ur thoughts word by word!

Rock on
Jit

The role of a woman or mother who remains a key factor in deciding the future of the girl child needs to be seriously looked into. As long as women are treated the way they are in the villages, nothing will improve. It is necessary for the womenfolk to come out of this vicious circle of ‘wanting to have a male child’ and thinking of a male child as one who would be a harbinger of prosperity. For that to happen, girls must be allowed to own ancestral property including land. The whole outlook of the community needs an overhaul. I know it is easier said than done but then there is no other way.

As for the departed souls, may God rest their souls in peace.

Regards,

JS Malik

[ranjitjat]

Honour Killing
One more held


Karnal, May 12
The Karnal police today arrested Satbir, another relative of Sunita, in the Balla honour killings case.

Satbir has been sent on a 14-day judicial custody by the illaqa magistrate at Assandh today. This is the fifth arrest in connection with the murder of Sunita and Jasbir.

The couple was allegedly strangled on Friday by the girl’s family and their bodies were kept outside her residence at Balla village, near Assandh.

Meanwhile, a mahapanchayat was organised today at the Jat-dominated Balla village reportedly to "discuss" the killings and its aftermath. According to the information, a panel of 47 members from different communities has been chosen to take "further course of action".

It is also learnt that the committee would discuss the issue at the village chaupal tonight and make its views public on Tuesday. The participating members refused to share the information. Certain members at the panchayat aired their views against the media for highlighting the issue.

They termed it as undue "interference" in the social set up of villages.

Though villagers from the nearby villages also attended the meeting, family of Jasbir was not invited. Sushil, brother of the deceased, confirmed over telephone that none of his family members were invited for the mahapanchayat.

Questions have also been raised on the timing of the mahapanchayat. Sushil stated that the family was finding it hard to fight for justice. He also alleged that money and pressure were playing factors in the whole issue.

[sidchhikara]

In my thought Parents are not that at fault if compare with that girl.

Tau,
Bhaang chaat rhya se?

Agar hamara paida kiya hua bacchcha hamarey hee vishwas ka katal kar raha hai to hum or kya karengay. .

.

Bachhon ne peet peet ke slavery karva le... tere pe nazar rakhne padegi... you kids are not safe.

isay saport karna bhee galat hai keukee yea eak beemari hai jitna suport kiya jaygee utnee he badhege.

Jo bachhey apney ma-baap ko keese anjaan key liyea chhod saktey hai wo kesee ke nahi ho saktey or isseliyea sabsay jayada ladai love couples mein hoti hai.

Tau, tanne scientific survey kar rakha se. Love couples ke baarne jaja ke survey kare se tu kyon?

These all are my thoughts.

Next time you have a thought --- just let it go!!

[sidchhikara]

well this is a serious problem,but one thing i will say that family honour is primarily above love n all,

What honor??
You think these murderers had honor to begin with??

i don't understand when people know that their family won't allow them to get marry then why they get involved themselves in such kind of relationship.

Yeah, people should just shut their mind and not talk to anybody from a different cast / religion etc because at some point down the line, they might feel attracted to each other. Good thoughts!!

I can't figureout why girls go against their parents wish.
want to say--------- 'jo apne maa baap ke sage nahi hote vo apas me kya nibhayenge' . love means to sacrifice 4 others...

Yeah, the girl is supposed to sacrifice somebody she wants to spend her life with so that the parents false ego can be satisfied. What a beautiful thought.
Maa baap sage hote hain, jo apne bachchon ko jaan se maar dein.

.....n one more thing we must respect 'rishtey' getting eloped with lover is not a solution it's a poblem ........ u can't runaway from those who has brought u in this world,
tookcare.....
love is blind n all is 'bakwas'......
but killing the so called lovers is also not appreciable, u can't kill someone just becoz they got married against yr wish.......

Hahahaha !! that word is inappropriate for that sentence on so many levels.

[sidchhikara]

i pity the parents, wish they had known better.
the couple were staying where they were getting love. it is very obvious that they wouldnt have got that love from such parents
parents giving birth is a law of nature but that shouldnot take away from the child a right to lead his own life.
if parents think that by giving birth they have recieved the right to decide everything for their child from his studies, his sports, his career, his partner and how many kids he should have, then it is pathetic to say the least. they dont love their children, they only love themselves and their own decisions.

killing their own child and displaying her body in the street?????? God!

if the girl had been put forcibly into a rude and abusive marriage, who is the society to not give her a right to live with the only person who really loves her to hell with such a mean society

i used to say bad about taliban but what right do i have to say a word about them, my own 'so called society' did it

if a couple love each other, why dont they have the basic right of nature to live with each other(even animal societies provide that right. just to satisfy the false egoes of the parents and the society?

"jo ma baap apne bachchon ke nahin hue, aur jinhon ne apne janm diye bachche ko maar kar display par rakh diya, wo society ke khaak hoenge"

Navin bhai, very civilized and humane thoughts !!

[vijay123]

Very well answered. Such things coming from a girl shows how cold blooded her thoughts are. There is no place for such incidents in a civilized society. The incident has shown that these parents are several level below Talibans. Instead of murdering they could have simply disowned and boycotted the couple. No one has right to take a life.

What honor??
You think these murderers had honor to begin with??



Yeah, people should just shut their mind and not talk to anybody from a different cast / religion etc because at some point down the line, they might feel attracted to each other. Good thoughts!!



Yeah, the girl is supposed to sacrifice somebody she wants to spend her life with so that the parents false ego can be satisfied. What a beautiful thought.
Maa baap sage hote hain, jo apne bachchon ko jaan se maar dein.



Hahahaha !! that word is inappropriate for that sentence on so many levels.

[kahlawat]

Us chori ki ma ka interview dekhu tha and I was just laughing at that lady when she was saying that yes I ordered the killing and asked my family members to kill her. Aise bhi hoti hai ma.. But later on I thoght that use bhi uske ghar walo ne kaha hoga ye sab bolne ke liye.
But one thing is sure from this that the love between the couple was very strong. although they didn't had anybody to support them still they fought with the so called society ke thekedars for so long. Both loved each other long before the girl was forced to marry in a hell like family. Girl was also strong because getting away from such a hell is not a easy task.

[raj2rif]

I was just wondering "What is the Honor in Killing"? in first place.

Parenting is a very complex job. It was easy to do it when the children had no access to media and outside world. It is much more difficult and complex as the technology advances. Our day to day busy life takes us away from our loved ones, be it our children or our spouses unless we make sure that we meet each other's expectations. We have to draw a balance in our life to ensure that we do give time to all those who need your attention.

The parents must find out what the child want. One need to be friend to the children. In our community, more often than not, we do act like we are the authority. We don't see the change that had taken place during all these years that we grew up. A lot can be written on the subject.

My only question to all the senior members who justify this act is simplest one : "What is the honor in Killing"?

Will some one answer that?

[ygulia]

Sab se auchhi baat ye hai ki ab tak kisi bhi Political leader(MLA/MP) ne ,chahe wo kisi bhi party ka ho, byan nahi diya ki ye bahut hi ghinona kaam hua hai. Ye sare ke sare leader chup baithe hai.............Ise baat se andaja laga lo ki in sabhi leadro ka koi deen dhran nahi hai..........paisa inka baap hai aur kursi inki maa hai............

[sidchhikara]

Sab se auchhi baat ye hai ki ab tak kisi bhi Political leader(MLA/MP) ne ,chahe wo kisi bhi party ka ho, byan nahi diya ki ye bahut hi ghinona kaam hua hai. Ye sare ke sare leader chup baithe hai.............Ise baat se andaja laga lo ki in sabhi leadro ka koi deen dhran nahi hai..........paisa inka baap hai aur kursi inki maa hai............

Leaders kya bolenge .... leaders represent mostly uneducated people who don't care about this or think it is ok.

Some of the so-called educated people on this forum think that this was somehow justified.

Garmi mein inki buddhi brahsht ho rahi se.