HOUNOR KILLINGS IN INDIA AND JATs

[ygulia]

I have a female friend at Jatland who says that she doesn't have any match for her within the Jat community.

Should we kill her at first place ....... or let her try her theory to understand this world ?

Vijay your friend says: she doesn't have any match for her within the Jat community??????????????

If she has any excuse or any thing else and she wants to go for marriage outside the community then it is fine. But she should not say that she has no match within the community. It appears that her social circle or knowledge about JAT community is limited and you(VIJAY) should help her in that field.

There are people who want to go for marriage outside the community because they love someone, there is no harm in doing so. I will say always go for your love but do not find excuses to justify it before parents that there are no matches available within community.

[arunshamli]

bina soche samjhe kiye kaam kaa anjam kabhee bhee achcha nahi hota.

[spdeshwal]

Dear Vijay

There are numerous examples where a girl or boy has opted for intercaste marriage from our community. Where is the problem? My own nephew has married a non jat sikh girl. But in this case both boy and girl have shown lots of patience and determination. They had to waite for years for the parents to consent. They didn't want to hurt the feelings of the parents as well.
Your friend seems to be an educated woman who can lead an independent life if circumstances demand of her. I have concluded her to be educated because most of the Jatland members are highly educated and your friend doesn't find a compatibles match within the community shows that she has attained some high standards in her education and career as well.

The problem we are discussing is related to those unfortunate girls who are mostly from rural background and may not be in a position to lead an independent life. By saying independent I mean, Moving away from home and can support herself without the support of family and relatives.

Bhai Yudhveer, the term 'Incest' is mostly used for close relations and probably couldn't be applied to cases involving marriage in same Gotra but a different village. Of course, I wouldn't support this at all.


Cheers!

[jitendershooda]

Satyepal Sir,
Referring to your points raised by you (waise till now i was not aware that this was a same gotra case also as it was not mentioned in any news and updates.
roodhivadita abhishaap hai, hame aur samaj ko apni soch ko bada karne ki jaroorat hai.

jis samaj ne un mata pita ko itna uksaya ki unhone apne bachchon ko maar dala, wo samaj utna hi doshi hai.

Navin bhai, you have explained it correctly. But still owing to the blocked mind am not able to digest till now ... though trying to be more and more liberal in thoughts .... may be this is the property of mind to refuse new and different thoughts in first go.

Satyepal ji have brought up nice questions.

I wish to share with you all one incident .... that I have written in some other thread also .....

Ye jo PYAR ki baat kahi ja rahi hai .... just willing to know ...what age members feel is the right age to go for pyar ... ye 15-16 saal ki umar mein huya khichav pyar hota hai kya? and are they aware at that age what is right and what is wrong? What I feel is that at the earlier stages child is dragged by other fantasies rather than PYAR.

Last year one professor of patna was having affair with his 22-23 year old student ... they were openly saying that though the man have few children and one wife but what they can do they are in PYAR .... let them live their life ... why samaj is concerned about this. Couldnt come up to any conclusion that time also ..... on one side the family and wife of person is there ... ab kahene ko to yun bhi kahe lein ki us aurat ne uska jeena haram kar rakha hoga .....

Jaise iss case mein kuchek comments padhey us ladki ki shadi wale ghar ke liye ... NARAK se nikal kar ... dont feel so ... agar us family ne us ladki ko talaq de diya itni asani se to iska matlab wo kharab log nahi they ... unko kyun badnam karte ho ... ab ek ghar ki bahu ka premi usse milne ata hai shadi ke baad bhi ... to wo log kya karenge ... hum log sympathy mein itne bahe jate hein ki surroundings sab dhatta ho jati hein ....

Second .... rohtak khattar wani .... char bacho ki maa apne premi sang bhagi ... 1 rupiye mein ...... though a funny comment ... but .... it is a question also ... whether to let her live her life ... or is she wrong and we should not encourage such things .... or what can be the solution for such kind of incidents.

One more .... ek din rohtak kacheri mein ek chora milya ... Saini guy was married to a girl ... but they came to know that she was pregnant of 6 months after 4 months of marriage only ... and later they found that the baby was of her TAU only ... who used to visit her sasural even after the marriage .... girl was in LOVE with her TAU ji ..... and didnt dropped the child ... gods knows but that guy was facing a Dowry case ...

So what should be the solution for such kind of incidents ...

Kis kis baat ko hum roodhivadita mein dalna chahenge ..... ya phir this should be the theme ... koe kime kare ... karan dyo ...its their life.

[prashantacmet]

Navin bhai, you have explained it correctly. But still owing to the blocked mind am not able to digest till now ... though trying to be more and more liberal in thoughts .... may be this is the property of mind to refuse new and different thoughts in first go.

Satyepal ji have brought up nice questions.

I wish to share with you all one incident .... that I have written in some other thread also .....

Ye jo PYAR ki baat kahi ja rahi hai .... just willing to know ...what age members feel is the right age to go for pyar ... ye 15-16 saal ki umar mein huya khichav pyar hota hai kya? and are they aware at that age what is right and what is wrong? What I feel is that at the earlier stages child is dragged by other fantasies rather than PYAR.

Last year one professor of patna was having affair with his 22-23 year old student ... they were openly saying that though the man have few children and one wife but what they can do they are in PYAR .... let them live their life ... why samaj is concerned about this. Couldnt come up to any conclusion that time also ..... on one side the family and wife of person is there ... ab kahene ko to yun bhi kahe lein ki us aurat ne uska jeena haram kar rakha hoga .....

Jaise iss case mein kuchek comments padhey us ladki ki shadi wale ghar ke liye ... NARAK se nikal kar ... dont feel so ... agar us family ne us ladki ko talaq de diya itni asani se to iska matlab wo kharab log nahi they ... unko kyun badnam karte ho ... ab ek ghar ki bahu ka premi usse milne ata hai shadi ke baad bhi ... to wo log kya karenge ... hum log sympathy mein itne bahe jate hein ki surroundings sab dhatta ho jati hein ....

Second .... rohtak khattar wani .... char bacho ki maa apne premi sang bhagi ... 1 rupiye mein ...... though a funny comment ... but .... it is a question also ... whether to let her live her life ... or is she wrong and we should not encourage such things .... or what can be the solution for such kind of incidents.

One more .... ek din rohtak kacheri mein ek chora milya ... Saini guy was married to a girl ... but they came to know that she was pregnant of 6 months after 4 months of marriage only ... and later they found that the baby was of her TAU only ... who used to visit her sasural even after the marriage .... girl was in LOVE with her TAU ji ..... and didnt dropped the child ... gods knows but that guy was facing a Dowry case ...

So what should be the solution for such kind of incidents ...

Kis kis baat ko hum roodhivadita mein dalna chahenge ..... ya phir this should be the theme ... koe kime kare ... karan dyo ...its their life.

Reamarkable explaination hooda bhai....it was expected from u dear

[prashantacmet]

Vijay your friend says: she doesn't have any match for her within the Jat community??????????????

If she has any excuse or any thing else and she wants to go for marriage outside the community then it is fine. But she should not say that she has no match within the community. It appears that her social circle or knowledge about JAT community is limited and you(VIJAY) should help her in that field.

There are people who want to go for marriage outside the community because they love someone, there is no harm in doing so. I will say always go for your love but do not find excuses to justify it before parents that there are no matches available within community.

nice thoughts yoginder bhai

[cooljat]

Kudos to u bhaisaab, I second ur 'pragmatic' thoughts word by word!

There are numerous examples where a girl or boy has opted for intercaste marriage from our community. Where is the problem? My own nephew has married a non jat sikh girl. But in this case both boy and girl have shown lots of patience and determination. They had to waite for years for the parents to consent. They didn't want to hurt the feelings of the parents as well.
Your friend seems to be an educated woman who can lead an independent life if circumstances demand of her. I have concluded her to be educated because most of the Jatland members are highly educated and your friend doesn't find a compatibles match within the community shows that she has attained some high standards in her education and career as well.

The problem we are discussing is related to those unfortunate girls who are mostly from rural background and may not be in a position to lead an independent life. By saying independent I mean, Moving away from home and can support herself without the support of family and relatives.

Bhai Yudhveer, the term 'Incest' is mostly used for close relations and probably couldn't be applied to cases involving marriage in same Gotra but a different village. Of course, I wouldn't support this at all.


Cheers!

[jatriski99]

Praggya , I guess u r missing the whole point here.

a very simple question that has been raised up here is : does a human life has a value or not ? can two people decide to live the life they would like to or not?


rahi baat , muslim ya lower caste mein shadi karne ki to , I would only say , if the two peope involved have taken the decision they must given thought to all the pros n cons.no body is immamture to take such decision without any prudence ...
waise just n FYI... the same has happened in our village.... where one of the girl from our community has married the muslim guy and nobody seems to be minding that.. and touch wood she living well and blessed with two beautiful kids

Cheers to the humanity

I'm nt talking abt exception, tel me wat the majority feels. few exceptions r always there, it doesn't means jats r getting liberal, it's a fact we r a very rigid community, I ve nt heard jats let her daughters married to Sc/St, tel me hw many?

[jatriski99]

Navin bhai, you have explained it correctly. But still owing to the blocked mind am not able to digest till now ... though trying to be more and more liberal in thoughts .... may be this is the property of mind to refuse new and different thoughts in first go.

Satyepal ji have brought up nice questions.

I wish to share with you all one incident .... that I have written in some other thread also .....

Ye jo PYAR ki baat kahi ja rahi hai .... just willing to know ...what age members feel is the right age to go for pyar ... ye 15-16 saal ki umar mein huya khichav pyar hota hai kya? and are they aware at that age what is right and what is wrong? What I feel is that at the earlier stages child is dragged by other fantasies rather than PYAR.

Last year one professor of patna was having affair with his 22-23 year old student ... they were openly saying that though the man have few children and one wife but what they can do they are in PYAR .... let them live their life ... why samaj is concerned about this. Couldnt come up to any conclusion that time also ..... on one side the family and wife of person is there ... ab kahene ko to yun bhi kahe lein ki us aurat ne uska jeena haram kar rakha hoga .....

Jaise iss case mein kuchek comments padhey us ladki ki shadi wale ghar ke liye ... NARAK se nikal kar ... dont feel so ... agar us family ne us ladki ko talaq de diya itni asani se to iska matlab wo kharab log nahi they ... unko kyun badnam karte ho ... ab ek ghar ki bahu ka premi usse milne ata hai shadi ke baad bhi ... to wo log kya karenge ... hum log sympathy mein itne bahe jate hein ki surroundings sab dhatta ho jati hein ....

Second .... rohtak khattar wani .... char bacho ki maa apne premi sang bhagi ... 1 rupiye mein ...... though a funny comment ... but .... it is a question also ... whether to let her live her life ... or is she wrong and we should not encourage such things .... or what can be the solution for such kind of incidents.

One more .... ek din rohtak kacheri mein ek chora milya ... Saini guy was married to a girl ... but they came to know that she was pregnant of 6 months after 4 months of marriage only ... and later they found that the baby was of her TAU only ... who used to visit her sasural even after the marriage .... girl was in LOVE with her TAU ji ..... and didnt dropped the child ... gods knows but that guy was facing a Dowry case ...

So what should be the solution for such kind of incidents ...

Kis kis baat ko hum roodhivadita mein dalna chahenge ..... ya phir this should be the theme ... koe kime kare ... karan dyo ...its their life.

very well said sir, logon ne pyaar ka matlab galat samjha hai, pyaar kise se bhag kar shaadi karne ya cheekh cheekh kar kahena ki main tumse pyaar katra hun bla..bla.... nahi hota.
ek maa apne bacchon se jitna pyaar karti hai usse jyada pyaar koi kisi se nahi kar sakta kyonki usme 'dard' ka rishta hota hai.dard ke bagair pyaar nahi, aur apne pyaar ki vajah se aap apne maa baap ko takleef dete ho to vo pyaar nahi, parents kabhi apne bacchon ka bura nahi chahate.

agar aap kisi se pyaar karte ho to apne maa baap ko manao chahe thoda wait karna pade.
badon ke ashirwad ke bagiar duniya ki saari khushyiaan bemani hoti hai.
pyaar apki takat hona chahiye kamjori nahi.

[sumitsehrawat]

And, what about thousands of those "men" who are involved in bride trade? I am not sure how much affluence these men themselves live in. Forget love puv...brides are traded from places like Jharkhand, Orrisa, Bengal...etc etc. A girl such bought is forced to live with man('men' in some cases) already with 2-3-4-5-6 (God knows what number) kids after being paid for(starting from Rs1000). Scarcity of women in THE state is termed as an excuse and is well accepted. Scarcity?? Don't they themselves practice female foeticide??

Talking about Jasbir-Sunita case, I am literally dumbfounded. Talking of them and their parents, to me no one seems to be right and no one seems to be wrong. But jaan se maarna...still...pcchhhh!!...I mean c'mon...you can't kill anyone only on the pretense of "samaaj me muh dikhane layak nahi choda".

Honour killing???? C'mon gimme a break from such double standards.

Thanks...!!

[sunitahooda]

Yudhvir...i've already raised this question the other way roundas i said its nice to write/suggest/agree/disagree....but IMPOSSIBLE to follow the path

I just wanna tweak this question.....

How many of us would favour our jat daughter/sister/bua/Grand daughter to marry in our Gotra/our village or may be with her cusion (she has every right to follow her heart...)

I dont know but i think there is something called INCEST.

[yudhvirmor]

Yudhvir...i've already raised this question the other way roundas i said its nice to write/suggest/agree/disagree....but IMPOSSIBLE to follow the path

yeah.. wahi baat hai ji "Jis Tan lage, Woh hee Jane.."
Bhasanbaji karne main kya jata hai.. Har koi Liberal hai par jab apna bacha homework nahin karta toh, uske thapad hee lagte hain..... baki mere ko bhi pasand nahin hai bechon par pressure dalnaa

[ravichaudhary]

In these matters, everyone will have an opinion, usually strong ones.

There is no honour in killing. The act of killing is a sign of weakness in the killer and those who sanction it.

The matter is a tragedy, when a human beings life is lost and the effect on one’s family, near and dear ones is unimaginable. There is then tendency to allocate blame, on the family, the village community, even the victims.

In our Jat culture, there have been historically very strict rules about marriage, both the mothers and fathers, at the least, Goth being avoided. The dadi's goth was also avoided. Marriage with the same village was also avoided.

The purpose was clear, to keep gene lines, widespread, and to avoid inter cousin marriage.

Is this to say that no case was this tradition broken! Probably was, but the then the strictures were quite strict, one being that those who broken these rules were ostracized from the village community.


Did liaisons between people in the same village occur, one must expect yes, but they would be surreptitious, and when they came to light the strictures were serious too.

Now the village community is breaking down. the panchayats are ineffective. The younger generation does not carry the same respect for their elders , they did in earlier times.

In our modern context our problem becomes, how do we address the problem?

Today society is not the same as it was 50 or 100 years ago, society is much more mobile, and not interdependent.

The old traditions are breaking down, so is marriage within the same village, but into different goths acceptable or not?

When one looks at a village excess of violence, one has to also understand the daily conditions in a village. The anonymity of a city does not exist, and everything that goes on, is a raw engagement, with everything being common knowledge. The family or person is living in the glare of open sight, and all actions are in full sight, and criticized.

In this situation, people lose their temper, and anger takes over. A case like this will cause feeling of insult, and hot headed emotions will override a calmer brain.

Is there a solution? One would guess not, - hot headedness will lead to anger and violence and killing, which is a crime.

At the same time we should keep in mind that these are isolated cases, certainly not representative of the norm.



Ravi Chaudhary

[vijay]

I remember an incident in my village where two teenager of our community were involved. Same Gottra, same Village, same Panna. They were two young to realise any thing. They ran away from home but where the two 15-16 year old could go. There end looked like a suicide or was made to look like a suicide. Believe me , the tragic end was a big relief to the whole village.

I remember an incident one and half year back where two brothers used to live in adjacent farm houses near Villege/town Bhattu ( Fatehabad District in Haryana ) and their wives were sisters too. One brother's son had an affair with another brother's daughter. Tense situtaion forced them to elope from their homes. The family sttriked back .... caught them and both brothers decided to kill their kids at first hand.


The Real tragedy : Father of the male kid killed his son mercilessly with the axe into pieces. Father of the female also had an axe and when he tried to kill her ....... he simply couldn't.

She is still alive.

One brother killed his son for the sake of ******** and feeling decepted when other didn't accomplished the task which was promised.

You wise people now decide that who was wrong and why ?

And above all ....... was that relationship acceptable ?

[ygulia]

I remember an incident one and half year back where two brothers used to live in adjacent farm houses near Villege/town Bhattu ( Fatehabad District in Haryana ) and their wives were sisters too. One brother's son had an affair with another brother's daughter. Tense situtaion forced them to elope from their homes. The family sttriked back .... caught them and both brothers decided to kill their kids at first hand.


The Real tragedy : Father of the male kid killed his son mercilessly with the axe into pieces. Father of the female also had an axe and when he tried to kill her ....... he simply couldn't.

She is still alive.

One brother killed his son for the sake of ******** and feeling decepted when other didn't accomplished the task which was promised.

You wise people now decide that who was wrong and why ?

And above all ....... was that relationship acceptable ?

Both are wrong.
They did not bring up their children nicely. They did not observe/notice the actions of their kids while they were growing. They only realised it when things went out of control. This relationship is not acceptable in our society and their association is even illegal in the eyes of law.
Killing was not a solution for this. They would have disowned their kids and let the society also know about it. If they had been living together even after taking steps as mentioned earlier then they could be charged under CPC.
The marriage within gotra can not be stoped but marriage between brother/sister and half borther/sister, or any other relation by blood or even adopted brother/sister can not take place under Hindu Marriage Act.

It is my personal view that we should always avoid the gotra of self and mother in marriages. The children should be taught about it from the begining. We, JATS, are very backward in providing social values and sex education to our kids. These so called panchayats of khap etc. what they do for the good of the society? Nothing, they just assemble on such occasions for political mileage and rather create more problems for the people. They never do nice things for the upliftment of the community. The most unfortunate things I observe that educated people are also behind these socially uneducated people who are GOD FATHER of these panchayats.

[raj2rif]

I wanna ask you al ----- how many of you would favour a jat grl marrying in muslim community or to lower castes?

Dear Ms. Praggya,

Excellent question. However instead of answering your question, I would like to ask you a question itself.

If you have to choose one man out of the two: whom will you choose:

1. First person is a muslim of the calibre of our Ex President
2. Second person is a Jat who is a serial killer or a criminal.

The reason I am asking you this question is that in the present day scenario, the quality of the person is more important than the caste itself.

However if both the person are of the same calibre then obviously the choice would go to the one who belongs to our community.

Further, while you may be willing to marry (if not yet married already) a person chosen by your parents, there are people who would like to choose their own soulmate. There is nothing wrong in any approach.

The wrong is killing some one. What was the sin of the young couple? If the girl was a widow, what action the parents and the so called society had taken to remarry her?

Killing just can't be justified.

[jitendershooda]

The wrong is killing some one. What was the sin of the young couple? If the girl was a widow, what action the parents and the so called society had taken to remarry her?

Killing just can't be justified.

I dont think Uncle ji that girl was a widow ... she was a divorcee and perhaps becse even after marriage they were involved .... just to keep this to your info.

[navingulia]

1. To each one, his own. But if possible please dont kill.
2. I am not justifying or unjustifying any one. I am only saying 'who am I to justify/unjustify anyone else's act?'

[ranjitjat]

No honour in Killing. The name given is by Media.
Gang Killing, Dowry death-sex crime,rape and murders
are crime against humanity.- this is disgrace.
Do Not kill your own blood, your family

Haryana’s dishonour
Black spot of the face of Jatsamaj and India
Honour killings are a blot on the country

THE sickening regularity with which honour killings continue unabated in Haryana is a matter of shame and disgrace. The manner in which a Jat family killed their daughter, 20-year-old Sunita, and her lover Jasbir in Balla village in Karnal district needs to be condemned in the strongest possible terms. In a modern society, wedded to liberal values and democratic ethos, boys and girls falling in love cannot be prevented from doing so. While falling in love is not a crime, killing a couple is the most heinous crime. Television visuals showing Sunita’s parents and villagers justifying the murders speak volumes about the insensitivity of the people concerned. They have fixed death as the price for defying social codes based on caste and community affiliations. This is a challenge to the administration by a society that is least bothered about the established system of governance and the rule of law. Honour killings can be checked only if the culprits are given the severest punishment.

Even though such incidents are on the rise in Haryana, Punjab and Uttar Pradesh, the state governments have done little to check the menace. Surprisingly, no such category of crime exists in government records. Such crimes are mostly classified under the category of general crimes. Moreover, most cases go unreported. Even otherwise, FIRs are not filed and postmortem not conducted. The rate of acquittals is also very high in such cases. Even when couples attempt marriage under the Special Marriage Act, as in Uttar Pradesh, most applications are rejected on grounds of procedural lapses.

Political parties in most states have failed to challenge the fatwas issued by caste panchayats. These outfits are an anathema and must be banned because their decisions militate against constitutional rights. There is need for policy intervention at various levels, including a commitment by all political parties to uphold the right to choose one’s own spouse. Relevant changes in the laws to help courts take suo motu notice of honour killings and take action against the culprits have become imperative.

[saranrabar]

Hummmm.... Its so very true!!

Lil offtopic, I find ur name lil strange, how do ya spell it?

Ok, now lets get back to the topic!...

Hummmm.... Its so very true!!

Lil offtopic, I find ur name lil strange, how do ya spell it?

Ok, now lets get back to the topic!...

Quote:
Originally Posted by saranrabar
"All Desirable things in life are either banned, illegal, expensive, fattening or married to someone else!"


__________________
"All Desirable things in life are either banned, illegal, expensive, fattening or married to someone else!" ~ जीत ताखर

With all due respect, I should have referenced properly from where I lifted the nice quotation of yours. Accept my apology for the careless omission.

I wanted to resist answering your “lil off topic”, but may be it is a good deed to go on and respond to it? So, for the “strange name spelling”, I am aware of what you may want to allude to. Probably you wish to refer to the husband of Apsarash? The next time you go to Sikar, Rajastan, you may want to pay a small attention to what variety of “roman character” spellings are used for various gotra by the spectrum between the highly educated concerned with spellings and the modest illiterate member of the most modest village who even do not know what spelling means. Do the same amongst all Indian diaspora. Further, you may also want to police or make fun of the spellings of all cow-pens, not only Jats but include Rajputs and Gurjars for good measure.

Having said that, please entertain us with your thoughtful posts about the main subject. Thanks.