Open letter to the admins of Jatland

[vijay]

did i tell u in the past " i sometimes think same way as u do"which category i fell into?

A personality speaks by itself and doesn't need any character certificate from anyone else. We people can only point out that i like this or that thing in someone's nature ..... and you have so many good things in you which i always liked and never hasitated to tell you at first hand

[brahmtewatia]

Yes ... i said "unlike few others" but that doesn't mean "all the others" .... right ?

Just go through some posts here and analyze what they have to say. People seems to settle some personal scores instead of writing something about the topic of discussion. I hopw now you would agree with me that on this point of "unlike few others"

u abs. rt there vijay bhai
...i guess (in fact, for sure) there is some history behind, wch i am totally unaware of...

[dkumars]

Devender....don't those RED selected words sond like a POLITE request???? Or even if they dont sound like it should ACTUALLY sound then is being ABUSIVE the only action left? I feel someone will always be abusive when he/she wants to be irrespective of polite refusals/requests made not to chat in PM. I myself, like to chat to 10-15 members or all present in CHAUPAL when i click on "CHAT" but i'm pestered sooooooooooooooooooooooo much that its inexplicable. There are very well behaved members too who would patiently REGARD my wish n wait until i want to talk in private or simple be happy with my decision. But again ONLY HE WILL INSULT WHO HAS TO INSULT Its nothing new when people created FAKE IDs n bang on to pin point/back bite n INSULT this way or that way BUT I STILL SOMEHOW APPRECIATE THE HONEST N TRUE EXPRESSION OF AGGRESSION RATHER THAN LIKE SOME MEMBERS SHOWING N TRYING BEING GREAT N DAMAGING AN IMAGE OF MEMBERS"INDIRECTLY"Particularly when that member is AWAY from JL for months....Last but not the least WHY ONLY A FEMALE SHOULD KNOW HOW TO IGNORE????WHY CANT A MALE KNOW "HOW TO BEHAVE" and treat the female members if NOT EXACTLY like their MOTHERS N SISTERS BUT ATLEAST "JUST AS A WOMEN" AN INDIVIDUAL AND A HUMANBEING....If so happens then Vijay n even me wont have to WASTE our time on writing and TYPING such THREADS

Nahi Sunita ji... shayad aap meri baat samajh nahi paayi. Mra khne ka matlab keval itna tha ki agar koi galat lang use karta hai toh best reply is kep silence. Woh 1 baar 2 baar 3baar 4 baar 5 baar likhega par fir khudh chup ho jaayega, jab usko lagega ki uski baaton ka aap par koi fark hi nahi padd raha hai. If u revert back with same filthy lang or even 'no pm plz' i feel he gets the next spark to continue his job. May be i m wrong but this is just a suggestion. I suppose it works.

Wasie aisa nahi hai ki sabhi aise hai. Bahut log hai jo femles ko izzat dete hai , tarike se baat karte hai par jo nahi hai unko change nahi kiya jaa sakta. Yaha jo topic utha hai woh mainly females par hai. Isliy main ye suggestion diya. Agar sab log sajh sakte ki kis se kaise baat karni hai aur tehjeeb kya hoti hai toh ye aise threads aur moderators ki shayad jaroorat hi naa padti.

[brahmtewatia]

Nahi Sunita ji... shayad aap meri baat samajh nahi paayi. Mra khne ka matlab keval itna tha ki agar koi galat lang use karta hai toh best reply is kep silence. Woh 1 baar 2 baar 3baar 4 baar 5 baar likhega par fir khudh chup ho jaayega, jab usko lagega ki uski baaton ka aap par koi fark hi nahi padd raha hai. If u revert back with same filthy lang or even 'no pm plz' i feel he gets the next spark to continue his job. May be i m wrong but this is just a suggestion. I suppose it works.

Wasie aisa nahi hai ki sabhi aise hai. Bahut log hai jo femles ko izzat dete hai , tarike se baat karte hai par jo nahi hai unko change nahi kiya jaa sakta. Yaha jo topic utha hai woh mainly females par hai. Isliy main ye suggestion diya. Agar sab log sajh sakte ki kis se kaise baat karni hai aur tehjeeb kya hoti hai toh ye aise threads aur moderators ki shayad jaroorat hi naa padti.

i'll go further to add...
...
"to err is human, to forgive is divine"
or better...
"to err is JATlander, to forgive is ladeej (with due respect) of JL" :D:rock

[anilsinghd]

:p Sahi pakda Mukesh ......

If someone wants qualitative political discussion, there are numerous "Strictly Qualitative" sites. If someone wants to ponder seriously over deteriorating condition of our society, world & everything around (as per their opinion !) then there is no dearth of these informative and serious sites too and blah blah ...... But the point which I am not able to get is why they want to turn only 'this' site extremely informative, qualitative, sophisticated and all time logical when there are sites for persons with every kind of interests ! :o

This is 'Jatland' coz it intends to let the Jats have their talking - of all kinds!!

Now if the pasture of Jatland is not satiating someone's quest for qualitative and pragmatic knowledge then there are numerable options open. And in case they still wish this place to be ultra-informative then they can start their own pertinent discussions and whosoever wants to discuss the topic will automatically jump in na ! And let the polluters pollute the thread, you carry on with what you want from the thread ! How can someone care about all the passers by of a thread and why should it be done ? Let the fools talk, let the legends talk, let it go the way its going, just take out what you feel is pertinent!!

Though the point of ensuring that 'highly interrupting elements' must be put to some 'special care' is viable, but it must not be dragged in this manner every now and then.

Let the people talk freely, just ensure that there must not be 'personal allegations', 'highly indecent comments', 'repetitive misbehaviours' and the likes.

And let the moderators act like human and not as 'Omnipresent' or 'Robots' or 'kathputlees' :p

Well Shweta , Moving towards quality , moving towards betterment is the essence of all human endeavours!
Your first set of instructions seem absurd in the wake of above concept.

For sure I am not against the fun part and infact it is absolutely essential to develop the bond between members , to develop a certain rapport with fellow people. And it satiates you as well.
But on an constructive note , it would be far better if we achieve something really good out of it. I always consider time as "the" biggest resource in life and if we are giving out time to this site , we should set our aims a lil higher than just coming and chatting and going. And quality is not defined as : political social discussions only. Please broaden your definition for the same.
With all the creative energies and the resprces we all have , there is just something better to be achieved. We must give it a shot ! Dont you think so ?

Regards,
Anil

[satyeshwar]

Moving forward I would still like to ask ( and i dont know a better guy than Satyeshwar to direct this to , so I expect him to answer me , infact i request him to answer me ) about the significance of moderators and the role they play in the community?

Are they only for reading up a few crap posts of people , take some actions and ban/unban and hand over warnings etc ? And for this stuff only?


And if the answer is yes , then I am very upset about it. We can always hire a guy who just has to look at all the post with a few rules and guidelines and he will do a good job !

By moderators , the implied name/role should be of community leaders and they have an responsibility of assuming the role of leaders for the members( For sure each member has the responsibility of taking the community as a whole forward).
I mean the caliber of guys like Satyeshwar should not be wasted for reading up some crap posts only which are never on the topic , not even by chance.
And that is where i propose the idea of growing and looking at JatLand as a community and we must work for its growth and by growth i am not implying the number of members/posts/forums!
We should form teams with different expertise and assign tasks to team members and new members should be encouraged to join some of the teams.
And team work can range from anything like building / maintaining a database of books to helping out old people in the most rural parts of our country and of our community.
And do i need mention that we have plenty of resources for the same ?
We have an excellent blend of youth and experience with people from all possible fields.
And before people categorise me as an lecturer , and asking me to go and do it on my own ( which in n e case i am going to do ), let me say that not everybody is a leader and there are plenty who are followers. I think a dynamical model of growth for our community should be churning out leaders from here and asking them to involve all those follwers and do something constructive.
I hope Satyeshwar will come out with a plan regarding the same. I am always ready for my little contributions.
Regards,
Anil

Hi Anil,
Your idea of having teams of people doing social work like helping out older people of our community is not a bad one. Moderators of this site have already promoted such social activities by giving members a platform to express their views upon. There is already a section called "Social Responsibility" here and members like Navin Gulia bhai are already making full use of it. We also have a "Social Group" platform where people can create any number of groups themselves.

Please feel free to create a very "hands on" group where people don't just talk about helping, they actually do. They should report on the status of their activities to others and encourage others to take initiative. Moderators will help out wherever they can.

However, keep one thing in mind. First and foremost, we need to maintain a level of sanity at our site and for that, we need to continue editing abusive posts, banning rogue members etc.

-Satyeshwar

[trueblueindian]

Hi Vijay,
You have asked a few unrelated questions and put them in a single thread. I am unsure whether to answer all of them or just address your main grievance against the moderators, so for now I will only address the latter as that seemed salient in your thread.

Moderators are supposed to largely leave the threads alone. Knit-picking every thread is typically not in anyone's interest and even if members feel like a large number of threads have been moderated in the past, you will be surprised that this number is a very small percentage of the total threads that have been posted.

Secondly, the male moderator that you have talked about in your thread is relatively new at being a moderator (doing his duty for the past 3 weeks only). He is learning when to be strict and when to be lenient and as I had posted in my thread introducing him, members need to allow him some time before he understands the nuances of moderatorship. I am sure when you joined your job, there was a certain training period involved, right? The same thing applies here.

Finally, I have said time and time again, Moderators cannot catch every culprit every single time. Believe it or not, we all have other jobs that we have to tend to as well. Members can either be helpful in catching those culprits by saving chat logs, reporting abusive threads etc. to the moderators, or they can blame the moderators for everything that goes wrong here. Also, keep one thing in mind. Just because you want someone banned because you think they said something invalid doesn't automatically mean that person will be banned. They will be given a fair chance to explain their side of the story and the right action will be taken after looking at all the evidence. We are not politicians, but we are not pawns either!
-Satyeshwar

couldn't be explained in a better way

let all of us respect the ppl who take out their valuable time and devote it here instead of focusing upon that the rest of us (10000 ppl) do in our daily lives ...

individual thoughts :

for me every single MOD (as we call them) has been help-full and none of my appeals got unheard or un noticed

maybe its attitude or its a mere co incidence ... all i can say is i enjoy every single moment on JL ....

good job guys ... letz keep it up


I wish there were more people who can come forward and thank the people who invest their valuable time by doing a thankless job ..

[ssindhu]

Well said Satyeshwar bhai.
But got one doubt...can't these chat logs be interpolated by the complainant (the Bhola Bhandari) and then reported to the moderators?

Baaki saari baat aapki ekdum theek.

Thanks...!

which dope u had when this pic was captured

[anilsinghd]

Hi Anil,
Your idea of having teams of people doing social work like helping out older people of our community is not a bad one. Moderators of this site have already promoted such social activities by giving members a platform to express their views upon. There is already a section called "Social Responsibility" here and members like Navin Gulia bhai are already making full use of it. We also have a "Social Group" platform where people can create any number of groups themselves.

Please feel free to create a very "hands on" group where people don't just talk about helping, they actually do. They should report on the status of their activities to others and encourage others to take initiative. Moderators will help out wherever they can.

However, keep one thing in mind. First and foremost, we need to maintain a level of sanity at our site and for that, we need to continue editing abusive posts, banning rogue members etc.

-Satyeshwar

Thanks a lot Satyeshwar for replying. I nowhere denied the importance of the task you people ( i mean the moderators ) have at hand and also the time and efforts you put in. My point was to slowly and surely transform your jobs into a overviewing kind of thing and passing on the responsibilities to others while assuming more important roles of assuming leadership of tasks that only people with caliber like you and other senior members can do.
I agree that the site has provided a platform but still believe there is lot that can be done and rather than providing just an platform for other "named" organisations which arise out of this , why cannot the parent itself be developed into an organisation which also has a work on the similar lines. I am sure there are enough people to guide it and by doing this , we would have a much greater appeal.
It sounds pretty revolutionary but i am very sure that if the senior members or the regular members are assigned tasks by the moderators and the more senior or the administrative guys , there is a greater sense of responsibility.

In an certain sense its like pushing people into the community work and i repeat it is not only about social works but cultural and entertainment related stuff as well.
I feel pity when amazing talents , people with such reserves of energy are not tapped.

I just hope that people wake up. And we can only look towards some of the senior guys and you to provide us the leadership in this regard.


( Just some personal thoughts ) !


Reagrds,
Anil

[trueblueindian]

Thanks a lot Satyeshwar for replying. I nowhere denied the importance of the task you people ( i mean the moderators ) have at hand and also the time and efforts you put in. My point was to slowly and surely transform your jobs into a overviewing kind of thing and passing on the responsibilities to others while assuming more important roles of assuming leadership of tasks that only people with caliber like you and other senior members can do.
I agree that the site has provided a platform but still believe there is lot that can be done and rather than providing just an platform for other "named" organisations which arise out of this , why cannot the parent itself be developed into an organisation which also has a work on the similar lines. I am sure there are enough people to guide it and by doing this , we would have a much greater appeal.
It sounds pretty revolutionary but i am very sure that if the senior members or the regular members are assigned tasks by the moderators and the more senior or the administrative guys , there is a greater sense of responsibility.

In an certain sense its like pushing people into the community work and i repeat it is not only about social works but cultural and entertainment related stuff as well.
I feel pity when amazing talents , people with such reserves of energy are not tapped.

I just hope that people wake up. And we can only look towards some of the senior guys and you to provide us the leadership in this regard.


( Just some personal thoughts ) !


Reagrds,
Anil

ahhhhh one of the most thought provoking replies ever read by me on JL

Anil every word stated above makes sense .... there couldn't be a better suggestion ..... after all delegation of authority is the best way to control things .... many thanks from my side on suggesting such a brilliant idea ... i hope admin takes this in spirits and does something upon ur idea in near future

[vijay]

Nice views Anil ......... and i am forced to comment here that quite a few posts on this thread are really appreciating about the subject under discussion and i really appreciate Satyeshwar's replies here in such a constructive manner.

Now, as Jatland had successfully provided such a nice platform for us at global level .... It's time for us to move ahead and make an impact.

[brahmtewatia]

I agree that the site has provided a platform but still believe there is lot that can be done and rather than providing just an platform for other "named" organisations which arise out of this , why cannot the parent itself be developed into an organisation which also has a work on the similar lines. I am sure there are enough people to guide it and by doing this , we would have a much greater appeal.
It sounds pretty revolutionary but i am very sure that if the senior members or the regular members are assigned tasks by the moderators and the more senior or the administrative guys , there is a greater sense of responsibility.

In an certain sense its like pushing people into the community work and i repeat it is not only about social works but cultural and entertainment related stuff as well.
I feel pity when amazing talents , people with such reserves of energy are not tapped.

I just hope that people wake up. And we can only look towards some of the senior guys and you to provide us the leadership in this regard.

( Just some personal thoughts ) !

Reagrds,
Anil

ahhhhh one of the most thought provoking replies ever read by me on JL

Anil every word stated above makes sense .... there couldn't be a better suggestion ..... after all delegation of authority is the best way to control things .... many thanks from my side on suggesting such a brilliant idea ... i hope admin takes this in spirits and does something upon ur idea in near future

Anil bhai, i m pretty sure, that since u hv given the suggestion, there is definitely something tht has been crawling steadily in your imagination. let this brainchild of yours, wch has been welcomed by quite a few ppl incl. me, transform into implementation.

i guess, all like minded JATlanders wud (...shud) stand tall to support u...that obviously includes our MOD's and it goes without mentioning that our elders hv to lead the way to our guidance...

"In the begining there was nothing and God said 'Let there be light', and there was still nothing but everybody could see it."

[mukeshkumar007]

And do i need mention that we have plenty of resources for the same ?
We have an excellent blend of youth and experience with people from all possible fields.
And before people categorise me as an lecturer , and asking me to go and do it on my own ( which in n e case i am going to do ), let me say that not everybody is a leader and there are plenty who are followers. I think a dynamical model of growth for our community should be churning out leaders from here and asking them to involve all those follwers and do something constructive.
I hope Satyeshwar will come out with a plan regarding the same. I am always ready for my little contributions.
Regards,
Anil

Jab bi kuch ground level par kuch karne ki discussion chalti hai to mujhe hansi hi ati hai :D:D… pata nai kyo.. :D:D

Bhai anil agar kuch karna hai to apne level par hi kar liyo.. tum yeh umeed kar rehe ho ki is site se aisa kuch ho jayega to bhai tu sachi maie din maie sapne dekh reha hai.. !! aisi discussion aur badi badi bate bhot baar ho chuki hai kai bar hawai plan bane hai.:D. lakin huwa kuch nai hai abi tak.. :D:D and lagta nai ki age bi kuch hojaga

[ssgoyat]

sahi kaha mukesh bhai....


"aap bhala to jag bhala"

[brahmtewatia]

Jab bi kuch ground level par kuch karne ki discussion chalti hai to mujhe hansi hi ati hai :D… pata nai kyo.. :D

Bhai anil agar kuch karna hai to apne level par hi kar liyo.. tum yeh umeed kar rehe ho ki is site se aisa kuch ho jayega to bhai tu sachi maie din maie sapne dekh reha hai.. !! aisi discussion aur badi badi bate bhot baar ho chuki hai kai bar hawai plan bane hai.:D. lakin huwa kuch nai hai abi tak.. :D and lagta nai ki age bi kuch hojaga

sahi kaha mukesh bhai....


"aap bhala to jag bhala"

bhai anil singh dalal...its time for implementation
...अब तो चने के झाड़ पे चढ़ना ही पड़ेगा :D:rock

...i wud like to repeat once again of what i said previously

[quote]
i guess, all like minded JATlanders wud (...shud) stand tall to support u...that obviously includes our MOD's and it goes without mentioning that our elders hv to lead the way to our guidance...

"In the begining there was nothing and God said 'Let there be light', and there was still nothing but everybody could see it."
[unquote]

[raj_rathee]

Hey Bhagwaaaaaaaaaaaaaannnnn!!!
Pher wohe raagad!

[avesh]

sabki advice achi hai ab mai kaya bolu

[mukeshkumar007]

sabki advice achi hai ab mai kaya bolu

parsaad bol de tu

[anilsinghd]

Thanks Sandesh , Vijay and Brahm Ji for apprecaition but mere words cannot bring anything.

Thanks Mukesh for the much necessary criticism of the way we wish to implement out the things. As one of my great buddies Sumit Dalal says it : Its his critics who will take him to a higher and better self.


Ofcourse i understand the finer details of such things generally dying out in some time and regarding doing things on my own , well i already do it , so thats not an alternative to me.


Now coming to Brahm's comment , well offcourse , u caught it by neck. There are alrady a few things that are in my mind.

Well let me churn out the details and the intricacies involved ( only for the few that are interested enough ).

================================

It is not beyond us to form meaningful groups and choose some funtional areas to focus on. Everybody here is intelelctual enough to formulate work plans and action paths. We are all IT experts , and we have plenty of time on our hands. Time being one of the greatest resource should eventually solve all matters. Although we can hear many saying they are so busy in their lives but i truly and firmly believe that we do have time , the bottom line is that are we motivated enough for some social/cultural causes or not ?
And it is( will be ) never that we have to spend a great deal of time actually working on it.

I think it is more to do with the planning and we can always find workplaces close to where we live ( And so there are variety and plenty of things to work on ). And offcourse it is always not necessary to work on the ground level as well.

Well actual implementation detals can be finalised at a later stage in time.
But the motivation should be something like this:
( And this should answer the questions that why do i want the moderators and community leaders to be involved )!

1. We are a "lot" of members ( I am not sure of the exact regular members , but there seems to be no dearth of people .
2. Most of the regular members ( at least which i know personally ) are pretty interested in such activities. :
Let e try and enumerate a few ( And i apologise for not including and including as well , some one's name , just my personal views here )
Myself ,
Vijay ,
Brahm ,
Sandesh ,
Vikas Chaudhary ,
Sumit Sherawat ,
Sanjeet

And i am pretty sure , once we kick off , many more will join in because not all are initiative takers.

Besides we already a functional group of Navin Gulia ( Sunita Hooda and co ) and an upcoming group of Myself ( Meenakshi , Sumit Dalal and co -- in all like 10 people ).
Even if i assume a 50 % retention rate from these guys , we have abig bunch of people for a start.

3. The most important advantage is of sharing a common platform and having a common set of background values ( just need to dilute our personal egos ) ! I dont see people just vanishing ( at least not many , because they might be busy for moments but do come back to share their lives here ).


4. funding will not be an big issue as all of us are pretty well off and the kind of people we know ( through our personal , professional contacts should come handy ).

5. Diversity in the professions we are in should constructively help our ambitions.

6. There are people who have been sucessful in running and maintaining and creating organisations , people having 20-30 years of experience and plethora of knowledge from their own functional areas.
We only need prove to ourselves first and then kick off , people will always come in. I have not seen anyone refraining from such an opportunity , the only thing is that people dont actually know how to do such things.
and people expect a lot from themselves.

Do we need something else ?

[trueblueindian]

Thanks Sandesh , Vijay and Brahm Ji for apprecaition but mere words cannot bring anything.

Thanks Mukesh for the much necessary criticism of the way we wish to implement out the things. As one of my great buddies Sumit Dalal says it : Its his critics who will take him to a higher and better self.


Ofcourse i understand the finer details of such things generally dying out in some time and regarding doing things on my own , well i already do it , so thats not an alternative to me.


Now coming to Brahm's comment , well offcourse , u caught it by neck. There are alrady a few things that are in my mind.

Well let me churn out the details and the intricacies involved ( only for the few that are interested enough ).

================================

It is not beyond us to form meaningful groups and choose some funtional areas to focus on. Everybody here is intelelctual enough to formulate work plans and action paths. We are all IT experts , and we have plenty of time on our hands. Time being one of the greatest resource should eventually solve all matters. Although we can hear many saying they are so busy in their lives but i truly and firmly believe that we do have time , the bottom line is that are we motivated enough for some social/cultural causes or not ?
And it is( will be ) never that we have to spend a great deal of time actually working on it.

I think it is more to do with the planning and we can always find workplaces close to where we live ( And so there are variety and plenty of things to work on ). And offcourse it is always not necessary to work on the ground level as well.

Well actual implementation detals can be finalised at a later stage in time.
But the motivation should be something like this:
( And this should answer the questions that why do i want the moderators and community leaders to be involved )!

1. We are a "lot" of members ( I am not sure of the exact regular members , but there seems to be no dearth of people .
2. Most of the regular members ( at least which i know personally ) are pretty interested in such activities. :
Let e try and enumerate a few ( And i apologise for not including and including as well , some one's name , just my personal views here )
Myself ,
Vijay ,
Brahm ,
Sandesh ,
Vikas Chaudhary ,
Sumit Sherawat ,
Sanjeet

And i am pretty sure , once we kick off , many more will join in because not all are initiative takers.

Besides we already a functional group of Navin Gulia ( Sunita Hooda and co ) and an upcoming group of Myself ( Meenakshi , Sumit Dalal and co -- in all like 10 people ).
Even if i assume a 50 % retention rate from these guys , we have abig bunch of people for a start.

3. The most important advantage is of sharing a common platform and having a common set of background values ( just need to dilute our personal egos ) ! I dont see people just vanishing ( at least not many , because they might be busy for moments but do come back to share their lives here ).


4. funding will not be an big issue as all of us are pretty well off and the kind of people we know ( through our personal , professional contacts should come handy ).

5. Diversity in the professions we are in should constructively help our ambitions.

6. There are people who have been sucessful in running and maintaining and creating organisations , people having 20-30 years of experience and plethora of knowledge from their own functional areas.
We only need prove to ourselves first and then kick off , people will always come in. I have not seen anyone refraining from such an opportunity , the only thing is that people dont actually know how to do such things.
and people expect a lot from themselves.

Do we need something else ?

Dear anil thanks for sharing your valuable views and dreams ... i truly welcome and appreciate them and also at all times please find me there as a part of all (JAT) social causes at all times ..

further from your post i can sense that all you wish to do is --- for the community and thats also a dream shared by naveen bhai ( Jan Jagriti ) i agree there could be a certain amount of disagreement over the functioning as well but the effort has / had been noble and effective to an extent ..... though i would take the liberty and say that no social organization can ever be hijacked by an individual and the leadership of such an organization is always offered to the fittest (best suitable ) and by no means even the starter shall dream to own it --- navin bhai no offenses to you all is said to bring in the sanity of Jan Jagriti and your noble efforts but at the same time please be reminded of the the same in changing times ...please accept my love and respects before forming a opinion

i would propose a joint meeting / a brain storming session between the like minded people without PARDHANNI issues and let us come to a constructive conclusion and march ahead jointly instead of pin pointing individuals ... let us all be a FORCE ... i know and hope that navin bhai would allways be open for community upliftment related issues .... Anil your writing skills and your signatures speak enough about your capabilities and together we all can do something for our community ....

BHAI NAVIN AND ANIL THIS IS WITH TRUEST OF CONFIDENCE IN YOU BOTH .... i wish all like minded people work together............ after all our aim is to serve and not to be acknowledged or to be praised .... it all is a collective effort and lets bring more and more people ------ closer

and ANIL thanks for sharing my name in the list of wannabies ..... does that form a part of your so lovely 10 commandants

No where i ever meant that Anil had or has an issue with JJ, i used JJ and Navin bhai just to make sure that like minded people come closer and do a collective effort