Page 4 of 5 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 LastLast
Results 61 to 80 of 87

Thread: One Rank One Pension (OROP) for Defence Pensioners

  1. #61

    One rank one pension

    One rank one pension is a very complicate issue. It involves sum ramifications since other pensioners will also make such demands. Pension is granted on the last pay drawn at the time of retirement. How can the pay of a person retiring in say 1970 be at par with a person retiring in 2009? I think the movement is in the hands of retired officers who given an opportunity would reap the benefits and poor JCOs and NCOs will get nothing or very little. I think it may be partially justified for JCOs and NCOs because these are low paid real heroes of the country who actually sacrifice their life for the nation. But this demand for Officers is not justified since they receive very heavy pay packet during their service and get a very good pension after retirement. However, I think that only officers have arm twisting power and they put undue pressure on politicians to accept their undue demands. The two glaring examples of acceptance of the undue demands of officers are entitlement of rations (not the ration money) and higher pay in the Sixth Central Pay Commission. Therefore, on rank one pension should not be accepted for officers.

  2. #62

    Not the True Picture...

    Dear All,

    OROP has been made complicated because of vested interests and the lobby which does not want to give any respect to the sacrifices made by the military men and women. Their latest ploy is to divide the military on the basis of Officer & other ranks. And when educated people make misplaced comments, it is all the more painful.

    First and foremost, the armed forces have to have a different yardstick for calculating pension. They cannot be equated with civilians who retire at the age of 58 or 60 years. An officer can seek pension after completing 20 years of reckonable service (approx 42-43 years of age) and a Jawan retires after 15 – 17 years or service (33-35 years of age). Taking the working conditions in view, the pension is not enough to survive. My pension after 21 years of service was INR 6635/-. An honest Infantry Officer can’t even make a two bedroom house in a small town with his earnings and savings, surviving on this amount of pension is unthinkable.

    Secondly, the movement for OROP is not in the hands of officers alone. Yes, senior officers like Lt Gen Raj Kadyan (Retd), are spearheading the so called agitation. And he is not fighting for officers alone but all retired personnel. Recently the government has passed orders on partially restoring OROP for other ranks. The officer cadre has been left out and rightly so, because the officers should get it only after the other ranks have got it. Officers of the armed forces have it in their blood to always first look after their men and then think about themselves.

    Let me also inform my friends here that the difference of pay between an officer and Jawan proportionately is the least in India. I think it is about 1:7 or 1:9. In other countries it is upwards of 1:15. These facts can be checked with a little bit of research.

    Another misplaced conception is regarding only Jawans making sacrifies i.e. dying for the country. The casualty ratio of officers of Indian Armed Forces is probably the best in the world. I think only Israel has comparable figures. This means that offciers lead from the front and believe in "FOLLOW ME'. All those who have doubts must carry out relevant research and then comment.

    The last point I wish to reiterate is that it has been often seen that there is a feeling of some sort of hatred or jealously towards the officer cadre amongst few members. I would just say that most of the JAT officers are sons of either other ranks or farmers.

    Best regards,

    JS Malik
    JAT BALWAN, JAI BHAGWAN

    (Ein Volk - Ein Reich - Ein Fuhrer)

  3. #63

    One rank one pension

    I am sorry that I do not agree with the views expressed by Lt Col (Retd) JS Malik and I think everyone has a right to have independent views based on his experience and knowledge. What Lt Col (Retd) JS Malik has stated may be his views and no one should have any objection to it. However the coments that "educated people make misplaced comments" does not appear to be judicious without knowing and acknowledging the other side of the picture and knowing others' point of view, howsoever, different it may be from self views. Firstly there is already a clear divide among officers on one hand and JCOs/NCOs on the other. An officer can never have friends from JCO/NCO category of service personnel. The feeling among NCOs has been observed that officers do not consider their subordinates as human beings and ill treat them in the name of discipline and minor issues. Moreover there is a vast difference in the pay and perks of officers and JCOs/NCOs. As regards the issue that service officers can seek retirement after 20 years service and civilians serve upto 58/60 years of age I may mention that civilians, like service officers, also have an option to seek retirement and get full pension after 20 years' service. Moreover, senior service officers also serve upto the age of 58/60 depending on their rank. As regards pension not being sufficient to survive I feel that comparatively service officers are better placed than any other Govt. employee. The issue of having a house out of savings of a service officer also does not hold much water because if you do not manage your finance well during the service no one can help and higher pay packet cannot help. Otherwise, what expenditure does an officer incure for maintaining his family (except liquor of course) during his service career. Everything is free and sufficient for the entire family. It is correct that property prices have sky roketted and it becomes quite difficult for anyone to own a decent house out of savings from service but here also service officers are better placed if they manage their finances well during service. The issue of officers leading from the front and the issues discussed above should better be left to a survey among JCOs/NCOs by an authority outside Services and I am confident that the findings will be startling and eye opener.

  4. #64
    A ten-member team of Ex-servicemen led by General (retd) B K Ranjan returned about 5,000 service medals on Sunday( 13th Sep) to the President in protest against the government’s ‘‘total apathetic attitude’’ towards their demand of One Rank, One Pension (OROP).

    Source : TOI(DELHI)
    "Similia Similibus Curentur"

  5. #65

    One rank one pension

    Returning medals by ex-servicemen is not likely to pressurise the Govt. since the issue of one rank one pension has wide repercussions. This demand if agree will prompt other pensioners to raise a similar demand because every citizen is equal before law and if we consider that equality before law is limited to a particular class or category even then all pensioners will form a category or class and discrimination among them may not stand scrutiny of judicial review. The ultimate solution of such demands can come when the State undertake the responsibility of social security of all the citizens but to achieve that goal India has to pass minimum 100 years.

  6. #66
    The issue of one rank one pension is not at all complicated also defence pensioners cannot be compared with other pensioners. (I am not saying defence services are batter or not, but certainlyservice conditions do differ) The people who serve/served only can understand batter the topic & contribute more positively. Certainly, everybody is free to express his views, these forums are ment for the same. I heard that before third pay commission, one rank one pension was applicable, can somebody findout the details please.

  7. #67

    Cool One rank one pension

    If only those who have served in the three services can understand their conditions then no one other than those who are either in three services or have served in them should comment on it. I think a pensioner is a pensioner and most of their problems are common. If we examine peculiarities of any service we will find that every service has its own peculiarities and these will be diametrically opposite to each other. If we go by in service hardships then there cannot be any common criterion for fixation of pension. The three service personnel have to undergo hard service conditions that is why they get some preferential treatment in fixation of their pension on retirement. For example NCOs/JCOs get 70% of their basic pay (now band pay and grade pay etc.) as service pension and officers get benefit of some years service added to the actual service (depending on the rank from which they retire) rendered by them whereas other pensioners get 50% of their basic pay (now band pay + grade pay) as pension, no 70% and no added years' benefit. In this regard the plight of para military forces is worse. A BSF Jawan or officer leads the life similar to that of a Service personnel and get negligible benefit. An employee of DGBR actually leads the life of a Service personnel with provisions of Army Act on his head and is considered at par with other civilians after he attains the age of superannuation. A CRPF man does not know where and he may not know in which city he has been made to stand at night and if he is not picked up by his unit he will have no option but to remain there till he is picked up. The list is very long and discussion can go to any length. The gist is that the Govt. has to take a broader view of the situation and I am of the opinion that at present Service personnel are not getting a very raw deal.

  8. #68
    Email Verification Pending
    Login to view details.
    Dear Hari Prem Malik,
    I appreciate your sincere concerns for other pensioners but I afraid you are not aware of basic realities, let me summarise for your and others benefit who wish to contribute their views on this burning issue haunting defence pensioners:-
    a) In Defece Serving period is linked with Rank. Due to this nearly 70% service personnel are compulsorily retired in the age group of 33 to 39 years. Further nearly 20% compulsorily forced to retire in the age group of 40 to 47 years. Whereas all civil employees including police and para-military personnel serve till the age of 60 year.
    b) Less than 10% only earn full pension i.e. 50% of last emoluments. Whereas all civil employees including police and para-military personnel earn full pension.
    c) As per available statistics less than 10% defence pensioners get re-employment. Whereas all civil employees including police and para-military personnel don’t need re-employment.
    d) If average age of an employee is taken 80 years, then pension period of defence pensioner comes nearly 40 years i.e. more than his service period and he has to see 04 pay commissions and every time his pension will be reducing comparatively with each pay commission in relation to current pensioner. Whereas all civil employees including police and para-military personnel are not facing this situation as they are retiring after earning full pension.
    e) Once service conditions and parameter of service of defence personnel are different then how pension conditions and parameters could be same for both services.
    f) Defence services are Rank Based service and regular service depends on rank attained by an individual. From this emanates concept of One Rank One Pension with equal length of service. Once service was governed by Rank, then why not Pension.
    g) Dear, think for a moment; a FAUJI is given marching orders from service when he need it most, i.e. he is married, his kids are in school. Think for a while, how will he manage himself, his family, education of his kids when government is branding him RETIRED at the age of 33.
    h) I appeal to all my beloved and concerned countrymen, to think about honour and izzat of their Fauji’s. Fauji without izzat can not fight for country at borders. Izzat and honour of country and self is driving force for Fauji’s to lay their lives for their beloved country and countrymen.
    Jai Hind, Jai Bharat!!!

  9. #69

    One Rank One Pension for Defence

    I am sorry to say that I totally disagree with Shri Raj Bahadur Singh ji. Probably he is not aware of the ground realities prevalent at present. The Govt. of India has recently taken a decision that JCOs/ORs will get 70% of their band pay + grade pay etc. as pension after the minimum period of service. As far as officers are concerned no one retires (except by way of penalty after Court Marshal or termination of service under Section 19 of Army Act or corresponding provisions in AF Act/Navy Act) and after 20 years service they get full pension. As far as the position prior to 6th Pay Commission every officer who retired as Maj/Lt Col/Col used to get added years of service benefit. This added years' used to be added to the actual service rendered by them and they in all probability used to get full pension (except when the penalty of loss of service for pension was imposed). So (a) and (b) mentioned by you does not hold much water. As regards (c) relating to lesser defence personnel getting re-employment is concerned defence personnel after retirement from service get very good opportunity of re-employment and quite often get good jobs. The reason being they are well trained (for free while serving) and have been habituated in the atmosphere of discipline so are liked by private employers. As far as public sector is concerned they get age concession upto the years' service rendered by them so have very good chance of getting service there. If someone is not found fit for a job despite this then something basic is lacking in him. Your (e) replies (d). However, for the past many years civilian employees also have the option to seek retirement after 20 years service and some go for it. It is my personal experience that quite a few service officers and JCOs/ORs seek premature release from service and they make serious efforts through approaches to get premature release. As regards (f) I may mention that other service also have different grades or posts (which is equivalent of rank in services) and their regular service also depends on the grade or post attained by them. If you read post for rank the equivalence becomes clear so if it has to be OROP for service personnel then one post one pension for others cannot be denied. Probably service personnel feel that by acquiring a rank they attain supernatural position. As far as their relatively tough condition of service are concerned they are compensated handsome pay packets which in service and get good pensionary benefits. I feel that your (g) is nothing but to raise emotional surcharge otherwise what percentage of officers (zero %) get marching order at the age of 33 and what percentage of JCOs (zero %) get marching order at the age of 33. Even NCOs do not retire at the age of 33. Moreover NCOs get 70% as pension and have very good chance of re-employment. As regards 4 Pay Commissions coming in the age of a service pensioner I may mention that now the expectancy of life has increased and many other pensioners also see 2-3 Pay Commissions in their life time. Another aspect may be worth mentioning is that if a young employee dies his widow may get pension for 60 years but nobody raises a voice for her. But even then I am of the view that NCOs are the real heroes and they should be paid more while in service and should get better retirement benefits. As regards IZZAT to Fauji everyone respects a Fauji. Their pay while in service is always better than their civilian counterparts (rank pay earlier and MSP now with practically everything free, tax free, while in service). But here the question is pension for which I am of the view that special dispensation based on rank is not correct. They get special treatment while in service and for fixation of pensionary benefits. After retirement a Fauji is not a Fauji but a pensioner and has to be treated as a pensioner. The rank should be out of the mindset the moment a Fauji attains the status of a pensioner. Another issue which may be for your consumption is that Govt. of India has washed their hands as far as pension to civilians employed after 01 Apr 2004 but service personnel will continue to get pension from Govt. As far as fighting at the borders is concerned the condition of unemployment is such that young boys assemble in thousands for recruitment as a Sepoy and love and sacrifice for the motherland is not the prerogative of anyone and every sane citizen is equally concerned and ready to sacrifice for the country. Moreover now the entire country is a battlefield and war is not only of bullets but it is the time of electronic war fare and more or less everyone is prone to the hazards of war. Jai Hind.

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by HPMalikDaboda View Post
    I am sorry to say that I totally disagree with Shri Raj Bahadur Singh ji. Probably he is not aware of the ground realities prevalent at present. The Govt. of India has recently taken a decision that JCOs/ORs will get 70% of their band pay + grade pay etc. as pension after the minimum period of service. As far as officers are concerned no one retires (except by way of penalty after Court Marshal or termination of service under Section 19 of Army Act or corresponding provisions in AF Act/Navy Act) and after 20 years service they get full pension. As far as the position prior to 6th Pay Commission every officer who retired as Maj/Lt Col/Col used to get added years of service benefit. This added years' used to be added to the actual service rendered by them and they in all probability used to get full pension (except when the penalty of loss of service for pension was imposed). So (a) and (b) mentioned by you does not hold much water. As regards (c) relating to lesser defence personnel getting re-employment is concerned defence personnel after retirement from service get very good opportunity of re-employment and quite often get good jobs. The reason being they are well trained (for free while serving) and have been habituated in the atmosphere of discipline so are liked by private employers. As far as public sector is concerned they get age concession upto the years' service rendered by them so have very good chance of getting service there. If someone is not found fit for a job despite this then something basic is lacking in him. Your (e) replies (d). However, for the past many years civilian employees also have the option to seek retirement after 20 years service and some go for it. It is my personal experience that quite a few service officers and JCOs/ORs seek premature release from service and they make serious efforts through approaches to get premature release. As regards (f) I may mention that other service also have different grades or posts (which is equivalent of rank in services) and their regular service also depends on the grade or post attained by them. If you read post for rank the equivalence becomes clear so if it has to be OROP for service personnel then one post one pension for others cannot be denied. Probably service personnel feel that by acquiring a rank they attain supernatural position. As far as their relatively tough condition of service are concerned they are compensated handsome pay packets which in service and get good pensionary benefits. I feel that your (g) is nothing but to raise emotional surcharge otherwise what percentage of officers (zero %) get marching order at the age of 33 and what percentage of JCOs (zero %) get marching order at the age of 33. Even NCOs do not retire at the age of 33. Moreover NCOs get 70% as pension and have very good chance of re-employment. As regards 4 Pay Commissions coming in the age of a service pensioner I may mention that now the expectancy of life has increased and many other pensioners also see 2-3 Pay Commissions in their life time. Another aspect may be worth mentioning is that if a young employee dies his widow may get pension for 60 years but nobody raises a voice for her. But even then I am of the view that NCOs are the real heroes and they should be paid more while in service and should get better retirement benefits. As regards IZZAT to Fauji everyone respects a Fauji. Their pay while in service is always better than their civilian counterparts (rank pay earlier and MSP now with practically everything free, tax free, while in service). But here the question is pension for which I am of the view that special dispensation based on rank is not correct. They get special treatment while in service and for fixation of pensionary benefits. After retirement a Fauji is not a Fauji but a pensioner and has to be treated as a pensioner. The rank should be out of the mindset the moment a Fauji attains the status of a pensioner. Another issue which may be for your consumption is that Govt. of India has washed their hands as far as pension to civilians employed after 01 Apr 2004 but service personnel will continue to get pension from Govt. As far as fighting at the borders is concerned the condition of unemployment is such that young boys assemble in thousands for recruitment as a Sepoy and love and sacrifice for the motherland is not the prerogative of anyone and every sane citizen is equally concerned and ready to sacrifice for the country. Moreover now the entire country is a battlefield and war is not only of bullets but it is the time of electronic war fare and more or less everyone is prone to the hazards of war. Jai Hind.
    gr8 malik sahab, hats off to you,
    itne mahan vichar maine pehle kabhi nahi sune, send a proposal to govt to issue an order that every fauji will kill himself on his retirement day, so that govt will save some money to give the good pension to civs

  11. #71

    Smile One Rank One Pension for Defence

    I think Mr. Sanjeev Balyan is not able to understand what I wanted to say. I never meant that civilian pensioners should get any increase at the cost of service pensioners or service personnel. I have many family members, friends, colleagues and ex colleagues as service personnel and service pensioners and I will be very happy if they get more pay and more pension. On this site the issue being discussed is whether on rank one pension for Defence personnel is right/feasible or not and whether the service pensioners are just making an issue which may not be practically possible keeping in view the overall scenario. First of all I have given point by point views which I feel right and everyone (including myself) has right to have independent views about any issue. Every person's views are the result of the experience and knowledge gathered by that person and no one should have any objection to the expression of views on Jatland Forums. If someone has contrary views he/she is free to express those views. Expressing view in a frank and free atmosphere can add to the knowledge of others. I am the one who welcome the views contrary to my views provided those views are arrived at after logical interpretation of views. I am sorry to say that Mr Balyan instead of offering his comments on the issue raised by me has just passed sarcastic remarks. It would have been better if he had given his views by drawing logical conclusions from the views at his command. Anyway it is his way of thinking and I have no objection to that but I could not learn anything out of his remarks.

    To this I just want to share a story told to me by a friend of mine and let him draw conclusions. The story is that a Professor was taking a lecture of students studying law. He told them that a successful lawyer is one who finds the support of some existing law or collects documentary or oral evidence to prove his case in the court. One of the student asked him if support of law or documentary or oral evidence is not available then what the lawyer should do? The Professor told him to prove his case through circumstantial evidence. The student again asked him if the possibility of proving the case through circumstantial evidence is also not there what the lawyer should do? The Professor then told him that the lawyer should bring unnecessary issues in his arguments before the Court and should raise his voice so that others, including the Court may feel that he has a strong case and thus he should try to confuse the court.

  12. #72
    My dear HP Malik, I must say you are a good Advocate & nicely argueing your case strictly as per third advice of the law professor. I wish The God gives you another life as humanbeing, courage, strengh, capability & permission to join Indin Defence Forces, so that you are able to argue your case as per first & second advices of the professor. Dear Fauji is always a Fauji.
    Last edited by Fateh; September 26th, 2009 at 06:59 PM.

  13. #73

    Thumbs up One Rank One Pension for Defence

    Dear Mr. Fateh Singh Kharb ji thank you for your compliment but I am not arguing my case as per the third advice of the law professor. Rather I not only have sound evidence to prove my case as per first as well as second advice of the law professor. As regards myself joining the Defence forces I may say that I am in Defence forces in this life itself. You might have noticed that I have quoted many things though obliquely which only the person knowing the ins and outs can say. I feel that the problem for most of the faujis is that even after retirement from fauj they cannot think beyond the life spent in fauj. I think the world is full of wonderful things and there is lot more in this wonderful world than the life and thinking beyond fauj. Thinking like a fauji is of course a must till the fauji is in fauj. Jai Hind.

  14. #74
    My dear malik, though you may be serving in defence forces physically but I am sure you have not adopted fauji way of life. my dear young man souldering is not only a service but it is a different way of life, it is a seperate very good community. It is not necesary to be in defence service to know retirement age of various ranks & few clauses of the Act. I again say that you may be knowing few things about the service theoritically but practically you are not at all closer to the facts about the service or you are a big negative person or you want to perlong the discussion or publicity by showing your little knowledge on defence service. Secondly in one of your post you had mensioned that you have many relatives in defence, that statement also gives me indication that you are not even close to the defence thinking what to talk about service. Any way brother my assessment is based on your various posts which I have gone through, so please donnot mind even if you are really taking salary from defence. My suggestion is that first become a fauji, adopt fauji attitute & way of life, read the service Act & Rules, understand properly all clauses & than make use of The First advice of the professor. Brother Paveria has replied to you pointwise very correctly, nicely & respectfully please try to understand his point of view. Brother, in 1991, I was tasked to revise NCC Act & Rules, while working on that, I had gone through many old files & records. I noticed that before indepedence, salary of defence officers was much hire than ICS officers & similarly salary of JCOs & Other Ranks was hire than their counter part in civil service, even after independence starting salary had been always hire than their conterparts. But slowly slowly defence personel have been cheated by the rulers. Few examples-before third pay commission starting basic salaries were as under
    Defence officer-400
    IAS- 350
    IPS - 300
    In third pay commission, IAS-700 DOUBLE, IPS 700 more than double & defence Officer-750 less than double. In forth pay commission IAS &IPS 2200 that is three times plus 100, where as DO JUST 2300, why not 800x3plus 100. Fifth IAS IPS 8000, DO 2LT RANK WAS ABOLISHED, LT WAS GIVEN ONLY 8250 TO START, not only pay was given less but status was also reduced of DO. Also defence personnel are harmed in pay fixation, 10 batches are fixed at same pay & lateron after lot of cries, one/two increaments are throughn in their begging bowl where as in case of civil services each indivisual or each batch is fixed seperately.Earlier 75% officers used to retire as majors/time scale LT COL, even now only rank is upgreded rest evry thing remains same where as an IASretires atlist joint secretary which is equated with Maj Gen. The problem of other ranks is much critical. During 4th pay commission a running pay scale was given to defence personnel to compensate for their less promotions, but that was also withdrawn in 5th commission. I heard before 3rd commission, one rank one pension was applicable, but lateron taken away, Like wise there are so many anomalies but no body is bothered. If one rank one pension is not justified, than why both major political parties included this point in their manifesto in last to last election. Anyway dear this is a very big toppic to talk, we shouldnt waste everybodys time here & try to learn facts & understand the ground reality. Regards
    Last edited by Fateh; September 28th, 2009 at 07:37 PM.

  15. #75

    Thumbs up One Rank One Pension for Defence

    Dear Mr Kharb you are free to have your opinion and I should also be allowed to have the opinion which I think right. With your recent analysis I feel that many Service officers have been taught only wrong facts and comparisons of pay and perks reportedly enjoyed in countries primarily ruled by dictators. Any way we should close the discussion here. Jai Hind.

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by HPMalikDaboda View Post
    Dear Mr Kharb you are free to have your opinion and I should also be allowed to have the opinion which I think right. With your recent analysis I feel that many Service officers have been taught only wrong facts and comparisons of pay and perks reportedly enjoyed in countries primarily ruled by dictators. Any way we should close the discussion here. Jai Hind.

    Brother you have ful liberty to have your own views & nobody has a right to stop any body to have his own views but definitely views can be dibated, discussed, corrected, supported, cotradicted, appreciated etc & nobody should have any objection or feel bad. when some body expresses factually wrong thing in that case also replies will be given like you said that (many officers have been taught only wrong facts and comparisos of pay and perks) brother is it a correct statement & definitely invites a strong reaction from many people. What so ever figers I have given above these are correct, you may like to varify please. Though, every body remains student till end of life but, I was associated with facts & taught people correct facts. probably you are not aware about me but no problem, I just came in discussion to express my views & not to stop you, brother discussion should be taken as discussion, nothing against you personaly. your suggestion of ending the discussion here is well taken for implimentation please. regards
    Last edited by Fateh; October 1st, 2009 at 03:59 PM.

  17. #77

    One rank One pension to milni hi chahiye

    Budha hote hote pension itni kum ho jati hai ki dal roti ki bajaye sukhi roti bhi khani mushkil ho jati hai!

    Even the retired senior officers find them difficult to pull on fir
    bechare sipahi ya hawaldar ka kya hoga

    Govt should regard the sacrifices of these great people

  18. #78
    Email Verification Pending
    Login to view details.
    Quote Originally Posted by jangsher View Post
    Budha hote hote pension itni kum ho jati hai ki dal roti ki bajaye sukhi roti bhi khani mushkil ho jati hai!

    Even the retired senior officers find them difficult to pull on fir
    bechare sipahi ya hawaldar ka kya hoga

    Govt should regard the sacrifices of these great people

    Gill Bhai Sahab, you have illustrated plight of pensioner Fauji in One Liner. This must be an eye opener to all those who oppose OROP.

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by jagmohan View Post
    Dear All,


    This means that offciers lead from the front and believe in "FOLLOW ME'.
    Col Malik, No pun intended. but does that mean Indian Army is training her NCO, JCO to be followers and not thinkers.
    Reason I say that is, I was deployed with US forces in Afghanistan couple years ago, during one Battalion level engagement, Battalion Commander told his men if anything happens to him in this engagement, his 2nd-in-C is the Sgt Major==Subedar Major of IA. In today's battlefield combat units have additional responsibility to be innovative and improvise on their feet during the life and death situation. Just interested in your thoughts.

    The last point I wish to reiterate is that it has been often seen that there is a feeling of some sort of hatred or jealously towards the officer cadre amongst few members. I would just say that most of the JAT officers are sons of either other ranks or farmers.

    JS Malik
    Furthermore, Col Malik--I see both sides here. I can understand why some members have some hatred toward some officers, maybe it is because some of their loved ones are no longer alive due to massive screw up of their commander's false bravado. There are plenty of stories making rounds about some officers false and misplaced bravado that led to deaths of many men.
    I was never a uniformed military personal but have spent enough time attached to units to understand the intricacies of military working.

  20. #80
    Mr Karan, though, Col Malik should reply your point, but with due regards may I ask you that may be due to wrong decision, wrong understanding, lack of knowledge, lack of competance or lack of training etc of one officer, a jawan might have lost his life but certainly not intentionally, how does it become cause of hatread & majority of officers have saved the lives of jawan , what about that reaction of jawans. My dear karan all officers love their jawans like their children/brothers/family members, it is good to know that you had been to foreign countary & were associated with some Army troops, but your views are niether correct nor exceptable. May I remind you that the discussion is on one rank one pension, if you have some thing in you pocket please contribute, criticism is not correct.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •