Again a Gotra-Marriage Row!!

[brainspeak]

arvind ji this khaap system is only in jats and it is the oldest form of democarecy in this world.khaap leads to elect gana and gana leads to elect ganapati for 5 years(ganpati was equal to maharaja).i request JL members to study more about our social taanaa baanaa and riti rivaaj.you will find scintific reason behind that.and thease tradations are thousends of years old.we must claim that democarecy was started by jats.panchyaayt soch samaj ker uchit faislaa legi.i suggested some points in this thread earlier also.
:rockkaanoon se smaaj nahi bantaa, smaaj kaanoon banaata hey.

ravinder ji aapke anusar parjatantra jaton ki den hai...iss mudee pe kafi bahash ki ja sakti hai lekin phir bhi mein aapki baat mann leta hun...aapne jo doosre pehlu saamne rakhe hain woh bhi kafi santulit hain....lekin mera sirf ek hi sawal hai ki yeh khap/khap-panchayat tabhi kyun active hoti hain jab koi shadi ek hi gotra/bhaichaara mein ho jati hai??...baaki samay mein yeh log kya karte hain??..kya ho chuki shadi tudwana hi khap ka ekmatra lakshya rah gaya hai??...

aapke anusar khap ki suruat isliye hui kyunki log saamajik roop se surakshit rahein, samaj mein anusashan bana rahe aur arajakta na faile...aur pehle sayad khap yeh kaam karti bhi thi....lekin aaj ke smaya mein jab itni saamajik buraiyaan jaise - dahej pratha, sharaabkhori, nasili dawaon ka sevan aadi ; aarthik samasyan - lagatar ghati kheti ki paidawar, badti mehngai, shikhsha ka abhav aur shikshit yuvkon ko naukri ki kami...ityadi...

kya kisi khap ne inmein se kisi ek bhi cheez ke liye apni awaz buland ki hai?? bilkul nahin!!...aur iska karan hai in buraiyon ko khatam karna ek kranti lane ke barabar hai aur usmein lagta hai jor!!!..jor koi laga ke razi hai nahin...kinhi 2 parivaron ko ujadne mein kya jata hai...poora gaam gher ke khada ho jao...darke maare woh bechare apne aap chale jayenge...kahan ki bahaduri hai aur kya iska natiza nikla??

suruat ho sakta hai vyagyanik sidhantonn ke basis pe ki gaye ho...kintu aaj ki jo prasthiyaan hain usmein khap system na hi to vyagyanik hai,na hi samvadhanik hai aur na hi prajatantra ko aage badata hai...

[sanjaymalik]

arvind ji this khaap system is only in jats and it is the oldest form of democarecy in this world.khaap leads to elect gana and gana leads to elect ganapati for 5 years(ganpati was equal to maharaja).i request JL members to study more about our social taanaa baanaa and riti rivaaj.you will find scintific reason behind that.and thease tradations are thousends of years old.we must claim that democarecy was started by jats.panchyaayt soch samaj ker uchit faislaa legi.i suggested some points in this thread earlier also.
:rockkaanoon se smaaj nahi bantaa, smaaj kaanoon banaata hey.

Hi,
this is very much right but to some extent although i am agree that 'kaanoon se smaaj nahi bantaa, smaaj kaanoon banaata hey" but is not neccessay that panchayat always take right decision with rational and resaoning as in a no. of cases panchayat has taken very reduculous decision like the case of Jondhi village when Panchayat asked to became brother & sister to a husband and wife. Although it is neccessary that there should be mutual under standing between the resident of a village of different gotra not to marry within that gotra but if incidently done then punishment should not be so harras.

[malikdeepak1]

Kuldeep ji aapne ekdum sahi vichar prastut kiye hai. Panchayat logon k liye hoti h na ki log panchayat k liye. Bhiachara agar tuta h to us ladke ko gaon me mat aan do. uske maa-baap k b kyu lath maro ho. Or ye baat bilkul sahi baith-ti aaj k time ki "jiski lathi uski bhains".. Aaj k time me koi panchayat nahi rah li jisme kuch prabhutav sampan logo ka ek-adhikar na ho. Log panch-sarpanch chunte h par unko hi jinse wo darte h. Bhtere sarpanch dekhe h humne b jo gaon k vikas k liye aayi rakam ko apne ghar-kunbe me istemaal kar gaye. Asli kaam ho h panchayt ka Gaon ka VIKAS. Par aaj kal sab apni ochi rajneeti chamkaan me laag rhe h.

[rakeshsehrawat]

Old adage , What comes around goes around, seems to be true in this incident. A couple of years back Gehlot Khap was instrumental in illfamous case of declairing Aashish-Darshna as Brother and Sister even after a kid was born out of their marriage. It was an incident of Vill- Joundhi( Distt. Jhajjar). This time they are victim. No matter who wins out of these Gotra rows two souls somewhere are always at loosing end.

All through the thread various members have discussed it very well. Kapil, Jitender, Deswal ji have given important points.It was not the first one and sadly, not the last one. Its not the injustice which pains but infact the justice done. One family has left the village but it has left few questions for all of us to think, feel, realise and look inside.

I would like to reproduce the questions raised in the first post for a healthy and smooth discussion.

Few questions:- 1. Is it the fault of a common [jat] man to be unaware of the ''bhaichara'' among Gotras? How it could be streamlined from the Khap leadership.

2. If such case arises, is there any supreme body to handle these matters in clear and concise manner? If not, then how n when it would be formed?

3.Functionality of Khap system, Why, often is significant to Marriage Gotra row instead of other social upliftment issues? What could be done and most importantly, How?

4.Senior members of the site or historians can tell us about the frequent occurance of such incidents. What was the frequency in their times like 2-3 decades back? Why these are frequent in last one decade?

Samar jab guthi seedhe tarike se na sulajhti ho to reverse engineering karni chahiye
tere last sawal ka jawab
Pehle log barat le ke biyahne jaate the doosre gaon mein jake budhe there apne purane ristedaro se milte ya apne purane dosto se (fauji bhaichara)
unse un logo ki aachi dosti hoti aur wahan aisi baatein khul ke samne aa jati thee. aaj log chand paise bachane ke chakkar mein barat nahi le jate mein nahi kehta ki le ke jao balki ye ek aacha system hai lekin log apne parivar ya bujurgo se rista karne se pehle salah bhi nahi karte. log sochte hain ki koi bhanji na maar de isliye chunni odha ke lana ya god mein biyah ka system chalu ho gaya. so is tarah ke cases bhi frequent ho gaye

Gaon ki panchayat ne saadi mein DJ bajana daru par rok jaise nirnay liye hain kuch gaon ki panchayat majboot na hone ki wajah se abhi bhi dj wagarah pe partibandh nahi hai. Ye panchayat hi hai jisne sadiyo se widhwa vivah ko haryana mein manyata de rakhi hai.(palle lana hope you got it) recently also panchayat is trying for jat reservation (ib poonch pakad ke na baith jaiye jahan discuss karna hai wahin karenge)

Sarvakhap panchayat supreme body hai agar gotra ki panchayat ka fainsla galat lagta hai to aadmi sarvakhap panchayat ko fainsle ke liye amantrit kar sakta hai aur apni baat uske aage rakh sakta hai.

Agar aadmi ko apne gaon ke gotra bhi nahi pata to use gaon chod dena chahiye. Saadi biyah mein bujurgo se salah lete waqt ye dailog kaise yaad aa jata hai pada rehan de ne budhe ne isne ke bera hai. Saadi mein ghar parivar(kunbe) ke 5-7 budhe bitha ke pooch lena chahiye ki kya falane gaon ya gotra mein saadi kar sakte hain. Us time to log ye sochte hain ki humse samajhdar koi nahi hai samne walo ne motorcycle dene ki baat kahi hai agar barat ka kharcha nahi karwaya to . baad mein bhugatne ke liye guhandi aayenge kya.

lage hatho anil ji ke sawal ka jawab bhi
anil ji aapki panchayat kamjor hai to aapko hak nahi mil jata khap aur sarvakhap panchayat ko kamjor kehne ka.
agar sarvakhap ka jat arakshan ka mamla sulajh gaya to sayad aapko bhi panchayat ki takat ka andaja ho jaye
dhanyawad

[anilsangwan]

Samar jab guthi seedhe tarike se na sulajhti ho to reverse engineering karni chahiye
tere last sawal ka jawab
Pehle log barat le ke biyahne jaate the doosre gaon mein jake budhe there apne purane ristedaro se milte ya apne purane dosto se (fauji bhaichara)
unse un logo ki aachi dosti hoti aur wahan aisi baatein khul ke samne aa jati thee. aaj log chand paise bachane ke chakkar mein barat nahi le jate mein nahi kehta ki le ke jao balki ye ek aacha system hai lekin log apne parivar ya bujurgo se rista karne se pehle salah bhi nahi karte. log sochte hain ki koi bhanji na maar de isliye chunni odha ke lana ya god mein biyah ka system chalu ho gaya. so is tarah ke cases bhi frequent ho gaye

Gaon ki panchayat ne saadi mein DJ bajana daru par rok jaise nirnay liye hain kuch gaon ki panchayat majboot na hone ki wajah se abhi bhi dj wagarah pe partibandh nahi hai. Ye panchayat hi hai jisne sadiyo se widhwa vivah ko haryana mein manyata de rakhi hai.(palle lana hope you got it) recently also panchayat is trying for jat reservation (ib poonch pakad ke na baith jaiye jahan discuss karna hai wahin karenge)

Sarvakhap panchayat supreme body hai agar gotra ki panchayat ka fainsla galat lagta hai to aadmi sarvakhap panchayat ko fainsle ke liye amantrit kar sakta hai aur apni baat uske aage rakh sakta hai.

Agar aadmi ko apne gaon ke gotra bhi nahi pata to use gaon chod dena chahiye. Saadi biyah mein bujurgo se salah lete waqt ye dailog kaise yaad aa jata hai pada rehan de ne budhe ne isne ke bera hai. Saadi mein ghar parivar(kunbe) ke 5-7 budhe bitha ke pooch lena chahiye ki kya falane gaon ya gotra mein saadi kar sakte hain. Us time to log ye sochte hain ki humse samajhdar koi nahi hai samne walo ne motorcycle dene ki baat kahi hai agar barat ka kharcha nahi karwaya to . baad mein bhugatne ke liye guhandi aayenge kya.

lage hatho anil ji ke sawal ka jawab bhi
anil ji aapki panchayat kamjor hai to aapko hak nahi mil jata khap aur sarvakhap panchayat ko kamjor kehne ka.
agar sarvakhap ka jat arakshan ka mamla sulajh gaya to sayad aapko bhi panchayat ki takat ka andaja ho jaye
dhanyawad

Kaka menne kit kisey panchaati ki moochh paadi sein... mein to nyu e bataun sun aak jitney menne dekhey sein ...ghankharey fuddu laagey..... ghar tein faaltu ......... ho sake s mera tajurba isa e rahya ho....

Panchaayat ka vajood hai....aur hona bhi chahiye.... lekin fer panchaayaton ki aise fuddu pancho se bachakar bhi rakhna chahiye.....jaroori nahi ki har panchaayat ka faisla sahi ho.... kyunki kuchh aise log apne swarth ya fir jhoothi shaan ke liye galat faisley lete hain..........

[arvind1069]

khaap gaon k vikaas par to dhyaan deti nahi, smajaik buraion ko door karti nahi. bas ek kaam karna aata hai inko aur vo hai logon ke ghar ujadna. actually ye sab belle log hai, jinke paas koi kaam dhaam nahi hai aur na hi koi inko bada shastriye gyaan hai. kehne ko jat arya samaj ki shikshaon main astha rakhte hai, par follow karte nahi. jo dusht paramparain inke purkhe chalate the, ye log unhi kurition ko aage badhane ka kaam kar rahe hai. jaruri nahi k har parampara theek ho. kuch paramparaon samay ki jaruraton k anusaar apne time main theek thi, par ab vo sardard ban chuki hai.
dahej prathe, female foeticide, gaon ki saaf safai, etc k baare main to kabhi ye khaap baat karte nahi. bas is se shadi na karo, us se shadi na karo, yehi aata hai in khapon ko. jahan zor chalta hai vahin chalate hai.

[annch]

Man lynched as per directives of a khap panchayat...for marrying outside caste and in the neighbouring village....
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/N...ow/4814045.cms

[avesh]

पीड़ित परिवारों द्वारा तीन दिन पूर्व गांव से पलायन किए जाने के बाद ढराणा गोत्र विवाद के मामले में अपने तुगलकी फरमान पर अमल होने का दावा करते हुए अपनी पीठ ठोंक रही कादियान बारहा खाप पीड़ित परिवारों को रियायत देने के मूड में नजर नहीं आ रही है। पीड़ित परिवारों द्वारा खाप के सामने गांव में बसने की इजाजत के लिए की गई अपील को लेकर वीरवार को हुई खाप की कार्यकारिणी की बैठक में अपीलनामे की भाषा पर एतराज जताते हुए उसे खारिज कर दिया। हालांकि मामले को लेकर बीच-बचाव का रास्ता तलाशने में जुटे लोगों ने पीड़ित परिवार को दो दिन में खाप को कुछ नरम फैसले पर मनाने का आश्वासन दिया है। वहीं दूसरी ओर नरवाना उपमंडल के गांव सिंहवाल में इसी तरह के मामले में ग्रामीणों द्वारा की गई युवक की हत्या के बाद जहां पीड़ित परिवार सहम सा गया है, वहीं प्रशासन भी पीड़ित परिवारों की सुरक्षा को लेकर पूरी तरह चौकन्ना हो गया है। दो दिन पूर्व पीड़ित परिवार के गांव पलायन के समय मिले सुलह संकेतों से कम हुए तनाव के बाद पीड़ित परिवार द्वारा हाईकोर्ट की शरण लिए जाने से मामले में एक बार फिर मोड़ आ गया है। हाईकोर्ट में मामला जाने के बाद जहां खाप से जुड़े लोगों ने आगामी रणनीति पर विचार विमर्श शुरू कर दिया है, वहीं अब तक कबीलाई संस्कृति जैसे फरमान सुनाने वाले लोगों को ढिलाई दे रहा प्रशासन भी मामले को लेकर रणनीति बनाने में जुट गया है। पीड़ित परिवारों की ओर से मामले को लेकर उन्हे माफी देने व रविन्द्र व शिल्पा के अलावा अन्य सदस्यों को गांव में बसने देने की इजाजत के लिए की गई अपील पर वीरवार को कैप्टन राज सिंह की अध्यक्षता में विवाद को लेकर बनाई गई कार्यकारिणी की हुई बैठक में एक मत से अपील को खारिज कर दिया गया। अपील के खारिज करने का कारण भाषा शैली को बताया गया है। कैप्टन राज सिंह के अनुसार अपील में खाप की ओर से शांति प्रस्ताव दिए जाने का जिक्र किया गया है, लेकिन खाप की ओर से किसी भी व्यक्ति ने इस प्रकार का कोई भी प्रस्ताव उन परिवारों के सामने नहीं रखा था। उन्होंने अपील खारिज करने का एक अन्य कारण रविन्द्र व शिल्पा की शादी को लेकर पूरी तरह गलती को स्वीकार नहीं करना भी बताया है। गांव दुजाना में पिछले तीन दिनों से अपने रिश्तेदार के घर पुलिस सुरक्षा में रहने को मजबूर पीड़ित परिवारों ने अपील खारिज किए जाने के बाद आखिरकार पूरी तरह कानून का सहारा लेने का निर्णय लिया है। पीड़ित परिवार के सदस्यों के अनुसार वे अब भी रविन्द्र व शिल्पा को ताउम्र गांव से बाहर रखने के फैसले को मानने के लिए तैयार हैं, बशर्ते खाप परिवार के अन्य लोगों को गांव में शांति से गुजर-बसर करने के लिए तैयार हो जाए। इसे खाप के लोगों के बहुमत को देखते हुए खाप का दबाव ही कहा जा सकता है कि पीड़ित परिवार अपने कलेजे के टुकड़े को पूरी जिंदगी अपने से दूर रखने के लिए भी सहमत है। लेकिन परम्पराओं के नाम पर रुढि़वादिता में जी रही खाप पंचायतें झुकने को तैयार नहीं दिखाई दे रही है।

[Ambijat]

Yehoo! We have these Talibans here too! the Indian variant rolling their diktats. What a pride, one would seek from it.

[vikasgahlot]

Today Shilpa & Ravinder were interviewed by zee news. Shilpa ne bataya ki gahlawat gotra ki 3 ladkiya dharana gaon main kadiyan ke ghar bahu banker aayi huin hain. Usne khap panchayat se poocha ki wo 3 ladkiya gahlawato ki bahu hongi ya betyia. Iske atirikt kadiyano ne bhi apni ladkiyo ki shadi gahlawato main kar rakhi hain. Panchayat ne 21000 hazar ka fine lagaya. Shilpa ne poocha kya wo 21000 hazar rupee lekar use apni bête se bahu maan lenge. Ravinder ne bataya ki ye sub kisi dr.raghubir kadiyan ke ishare par ho raha hain.

[malikdeepak1]

Who is this guy?

Raghubir kadiyan ji jhajjar k kise halke ka MLA h (I think so. Correct me if I'm wrong)

[vikasgahlot]

Raghubir kadiyan ji jhajjar k kise halke ka MLA h (I think so. Correct me if I'm wrong)

Raghubir kadiyan is speaker of haryana vidhan sabha. he is M.L.A from beri constituency( district jhajjar) of congress party. And village falls dharana is beri constituency

[nitindev]

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/N...ow/4818395.cms

I am at the loss of words to express my grief, embarrassment and anger at such inhuman acts taking place in the heart of our very own “Jatland”. I question myself and the whole jat community that “are we really different from Taliban” when such inhuman acts are not rarity anymore in our community. Coming direct to the point I am wondering what can be done to discourage such abominable acts which are infesting our community. I can understand that there can be difference in opinions on the issue of same gotra marriage but I can safely assume that there cannot be any difference on the opinion that killings, harassment or any criminal act is not at all acceptable as the jat’s way of dealing with cultural issues. We are not Talibans and self imposed cultural policemen.

As Jats we are not to marry within our own gotras, and I believe that it is a personal choice to make. If we are to discourage such acts within our community then there can be better ways to deal with this rather than degrading our community. May be we can discourage such people by denying them the priviliges of being jats, perhaps an exile can we awarded to such people to stop them from setting such examples, but certainly disrespecting humanity cannot be even the last option. This is not the jats way. I would like to tell these pseudo jats that strength lies in restraining, not in reacting. I want to reach out to people and would like to counter this Talibanization and stop taking the law in our own hands in the name of religion and culture. I would really appreciate the opinions of people on how to stop this criminalization of Jat community. Shall we reach out to Panchayats or have public gatherings? I would also like to mention that this discussion should not be limited to debates or discussions alone, actions need to be taken and we need to take responsibility of this. I volunteer to compile the discussion on the matter and execute the plausible solutions.

[richi]

VERY GOOD NITIN ..u wrote it well ..i too think that way, action that too a radical one is required now.I hv even found it very disgusting when instead of answering to the questions asked in a thread or simply replying to the topic in a disciplined way jatlanders start fighting with each other ,start to become brash ,try to show their supremacy over the other fellow jatlander , egos start clashing nd then participating in the discussions seem such a boredom !

Here ,by entering into discussions or replying we don't get any prolific outcome.It's like discussing in vain nd to no effect...

[VJ]

Bhaisahab aapne ne sahi baat kahi sai....

Galti sab teh ho jaya kare.....arrr us chore nai bhi kari sai......parr galti kare pe jaan teh marna ya teh koi baat na sai.....

or bhi tarike the saza den ke.....gam teh likad dete......bahiskar kar dete.....or kuch kar dete ....par yu jaan teh marna yo katti galat tha.....



arrr is teh bhi bhundi baat or sun loooo....

akbhar me aa rahi sai.....is chore ki bahu.....jisne len tai yu gaya tha arrr mara gaya.....wa nu kawe sai.....mere tai neend ki goli khawa diya karta yooo.....arrr mai nashe me raha karti......arrr mainne kuch nahi beraa


ib ke kar sake........
bechara bhai.....muft me mara gaya........


par dekhe kad tai....nue howega....
galti pe saza milni chaiye ....maut na deni chaiye.....issa koi usne khoon na kara tha....

[rakeshsehrawat]

Ek baat samajh nahi aati ki logo ko jato ke banaye gaye samaj aur uske kanoone se bahut tagdi allergy hai hum ye kyun kar rahe hain wo kyun kar rahe hain? koi pooche caste kya hai to seena fula ke kehte hain ki hum jat hain.
Jat apne kanoono ko man-ne wale mane jate hain. Azadi se pehle azadi ke baad faujiyo mein jato ki takkat ka loha mana jata hai. Ye sab isliye hai ki humare khoon mein purity hai . Gotra aur gaon ki sab ladkiya hum behan mante hain aur aaj ka samaj use nahi man-na chahta. apni behan se saadi karne wale ko kya kaha jata hai sayad sab jante hain aur ham wo nahi hain.

[malikdeepak1]

akbhar me aa rahi sai.....is chore ki bahu.....jisne len tai yu gaya tha arrr mara gaya.....wa nu kawe sai.....mere tai neend ki goli khawa diya karta yooo.....arrr mai nashe me raha karti......arrr mainne kuch nahi beraa


...

Fer to nu b kahni chaiye thi chori ne bhai k wo chora uska kidnap karke le ja rhya tha.. Apni marji te gayi jibe to uski gal byah karya. Nahi to wa us dhore phochi kyukar.. koi bujho us chori te ya baat.. Fer bera patega usne.. Wo to mar gya bichara.. mare paache bhi uske upar keechad uchala ja rha h.. ya uste b bhundi baat hon laag rhi h..

[rajesh00]

Fact of the matter is that these young people forget the very basics of social norms and on the name of love do something so radical which has far reaching consequences for the colse society like ours.It is totally unacceptable marrying in own Gotra.Agar yahi hoga tou Gaon mein hi behen bhai shadi karne lggeinge aur iss samajj ki jo thodi bahut maryada bachi hei uska bi banttadhhar ho jayega.Some ethics and norms are always required to be followed ruthlessly if a society has to stay disciplined.Every one wants freedom but that absolute freedom can be available in jungle only.

Lekin kisi ki jaan lena bilkul galat baat hei.People must see reason.Kisi ko kisi ki jaan lene ka hak nahin hei.Inn bachchon ko samjhana chahiye tha aur courts ko bi samajik manyataon ko dhyan mein rakh kar hi directions deni chahiyein.Sirf isko talibaan se jodd kar dekhna aur apne samaaj ko redicule karna bewakuufffi hei.Sarvakhap jo fainssle leti hei wo aam samajj kehak mein hi hein....chahe wo kathhor bhi ho.

[VJ]

bade bhaiyooo......maine nu na kahi sai ke ...chora thik tha.....arrr aapne gotra me byah sahi sai.......mainnne nu kahi sai.....ke kisi bhi galti ki saza maut na hoti............or bhi tarike howe sai....saza den ke.....


arr jo ye ghane kaanon ki baat kara kare ne.....ye kanoon bhi jib tai e sai....jab tak baat dusre ke upar hai.....jib baat apne ghar me aawe sai na....ye kaanon dhare ke dhare reh jya sai.....

koi ma arr koi babu aapne bete ne marwa ke raji na hota......

Arrr kise ka katal kare teh koi JAT na bana karta.......

[malikdeepak1]

Arrr kise ka katal kare teh koi JAT na bana karta.......

Bhai VJ teri baat 16 aane sahi h. Aadmi marne h to paashaan yug me chale jao.