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Thread: Sorry not Hindus ...Religion of Jats

  1. #21

    I am Hindu

    Narender Ji,
    Buddhism is a section of Hinduism (Also Jainism) as I have read in History books so all Buddhists were Hindus first and this is more reliable history than our Jat historians. Hindus still consider Gautam Buddha an "Avtaar" of "Vishnu". As far as the history and our historians go, I always had doubts and now my doubts are confirmed with this declaration. Tomorrow these Khaps will claim that Jats were existed even before Eva and Adam, are you going to believe them? And nerxt thing we will hear is, Jats used to ride Dianaseurs and Jat kids used to play with Dianaseurs.
    We are trying to look different from others as the Muslims do with their beard, cap, burqa and what not. This is a very dangerous declaration from our community and it will harm us a lot in future if we cling to it.
    We give proofs from Vedas, Upnishadas, Mahabhart and Ramayan and these all are related to Hinduism or the Sanatan dharma. My common sense tells me that Hinduism is a modern or new term for Sanatan dharma.
    One more thing, I am not going to change my beliefs because of this declaration. No one told me in my family/village that I am a Hindu, I am just born with it. No one asked me to go to temple or recite mantras but I feel closer to them and its my inner self that tells me that I am a Hindu.

    Note: This is my personal opinion and has nothing to do with Jatland policy and its administration.

    Quote Originally Posted by narenderkharb View Post
    @Sitaran Jakhar ...

    Sitaram Ji ...Our Khap elders and people who declared this are not people like you and me ,Professor Bhale Ram Beniwal has been a learned Scholar and Principal for more than a decade. He had studied Jat history a lot and wrote a voluminous book on Jat History that is well known to all Jat Historians.

    Choudhary ZS Dhankar head of Dhankar 360 has been in army . I could'nt name a book that he didn't study .He told me ,a comment from some one made him to start this pursuit of Jat History .He was ill that day but was the first person to reach there .I have never seen such a committed Jat leader and social worker.

    Another Historian who told about our religion and Buddhist past has written so far three books professor Gehlot was an IIT professor at Kanpur and so on ....We would be exposing our ignorance if we challenge their knowledge and commitment to our community.So please take time think and than post ,subject is important and needs serious input.
    जाट महान
    ----------
    बेगानों में वफ़ा की तलाश ना कर साहिल,
    तेरे तो अपने भी अक्सर बेवफा निकलते हैं l

  2. The Following User Says Thank You to sjakhars For This Useful Post:

    vijay (May 15th, 2016)

  3. #22
    @Vijay Singh and Sitaram Jakhar

    Existence of Khaps in Rajsthan ...


    Khap means nothing but just a democratic Republic of Jats .Khaps much bigger than Haryana or Up Khaps were very much present in Rajsthan earlier.Godhara Johiyas and Nehras had such Khaps in Bikaner.Godharas had a khap of 500 villages and Johiyas had more than 300 or so villages in their Khap .Where Jat Khaps in north successfully withstood the onslaught of Muslim rule ,Rajputs in Bikaner aided by Mughals took special interest in completely decimating these basic units of Jat democratic power so much so that even educated Rajsthani Jats don't know about their past existence today.

    To Know more about these Godara ,Johiyas and Nehra Khap and their destruction by Bika You can study certain posts already available on this site in JAT HISTORY section.

  4. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by jakhar77 View Post
    Narender Ji,
    Buddhism is a section of Hinduism (Also Jainism) as I have read in History books so all Buddhists were Hindus first and this is more reliable history than our Jat historians. Hindus still consider Gautam Buddha an "Avtaar" of "Vishnu". As far as the history and our historians go, I always had doubts and now my doubts are confirmed with this declaration. Tomorrow these Khaps will claim that Jats were existed even before Eva and Adam, are you going to believe them? And nerxt thing we will hear is, Jats used to ride Dianaseurs and Jat kids used to play with Dianaseurs.
    We are trying to look different from others as the Muslims do with their beard, cap, burqa and what not. This is a very dangerous declaration from our community and it will harm us a lot in future if we cling to it.
    We give proofs from Vedas, Upnishadas, Mahabhart and Ramayan and these all are related to Hinduism or the Sanatan dharma. My common sense tells me that Hinduism is a modern or new term for Sanatan dharma.
    One more thing, I am not going to change my beliefs because of this declaration. No one told me in my family/village that I am a Hindu, I am just born with it. No one asked me to go to temple or recite mantras but I feel closer to them and its my inner self that tells me that I am a Hindu.

    Note: This is my personal opinion and has nothing to do with Jatland policy and its administration.

    Sitaram ji


    Do you know that Hindus in Akbar times declared King Akbar an incarnation of Lord Vishnu, If you don't believe than you can read Ain-e -Akbari By Abul Fazal..Muslims Cleric were really upset at that What should be done with these Hindus ...

  5. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Samarkadian View Post
    That is more on the side of staying politicaly correct.

    How a few decades old Law system was able to define 5000 years old civilization in to one sentence. Interesting.
    Far from it Samar. The SC never defined the civilization in one sentence. You have taken that one sentence out from their judgment and considered that as definition. On the contrary, SC said
    "no precise meaning can be ascribed to the terms Hindu, Hindutva and Hinduism; and no meaning in the abstract can confine it to the narrow limits of religion alone, excluding the content of Indian culture and heritage. It is also indicated that the term Hindutva is related more to the way of life of the people in the subcontinent."

    Please read the full text here:
    http://www.newsanalysisindia.com/supremcourt.htm

    SC gave a well reserached and articulated opinion.

    I highlight another para that is pertinent to the recent declaration of Khap Panchayat.

    "The development of Hindu religion and philosophy shows that from time to time saints and religious reformers attempted to remove from the Hindu thought and practices elements of corruption and superstition and that led to the formation of different sects. Buddha started Buddhism; Mahavir founded Jainism: Basava became the founder of Lingayat religion; Jnaneshwar and Tukaram initiated the Varakari cult: Guru Nanak inspired Sikhism: Dayananda founded Arya Samaj: and Chaitanya began Bhakti cult; and as a result of the teachings of Ramakrishna and Vivekananda, Hindu religion flowered into its most attractive, progressive and dynamic form. If we study the teachings of these saints and religious reformers, we would notice an amount of divergence in their respective views. but underneath that divergence, there is a kind of subtle indescribable unity which keeps them within the sweep of the broad and progressive Hindu religion.
    The Constitution-makers were fully conscious of this broad and comprehensive character of Hindu religion: and so, while guaranteeing the fundamental right to freedom of religion, explanation II to Art. 25 has made it clear that in sub-clause (b) of clause (2), the reference to Hindus shall be construed as including a reference to persons professing the Sikh, Jam or Buddhist religion, and the reference to Hindu religious institutions shall be construed accordingly."

  6. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by jakhar77 View Post
    Narender Ji,
    Buddhism is a section of Hinduism (Also Jainism) as I have read in History books so all Buddhists were Hindus first and this is more reliable history than our Jat historians. Hindus still consider Gautam Buddha an "Avtaar" of "Vishnu". As far as the history and our historians go, I always had doubts and now my doubts are confirmed with this declaration. Tomorrow these Khaps will claim that Jats were existed even before Eva and Adam, are you going to believe them? And nerxt thing we will hear is, Jats used to ride Dianaseurs and Jat kids used to play with Dianaseurs.
    We are trying to look different from others as the Muslims do with their beard, cap, burqa and what not. This is a very dangerous declaration from our community and it will harm us a lot in future if we cling to it.
    We give proofs from Vedas, Upnishadas, Mahabhart and Ramayan and these all are related to Hinduism or the Sanatan dharma. My common sense tells me that Hinduism is a modern or new term for Sanatan dharma.
    One more thing, I am not going to change my beliefs because of this declaration. No one told me in my family/village that I am a Hindu, I am just born with it. No one asked me to go to temple or recite mantras but I feel closer to them and its my inner self that tells me that I am a Hindu.

    Note: This is my personal opinion and has nothing to do with Jatland policy and its administration.
    This example I gave above was just to show drama of Hindu priests ,You know these days Sai BABA is also considered avatar of Hindu Gods tomorrow Sant Bapu may too be an avatar ...


    Hinduism is separate from Buddhist and Jain religion that is a fact and and accepted as such if you dent that than it means you are denying facts and wants to discuss in Hypothetical terms.

  7. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by narenderkharb View Post
    @Sitaran Jakhar ...

    Sitaram Ji ...Our Khap elders and people who declared this are not people like you and me ,Professor Bhale Ram Beniwal has been a learned Scholar and Principal for more than a decade. He had studied Jat history a lot and wrote a voluminous book on Jat History that is well known to all Jat Historians.

    Choudhary ZS Dhankar head of Dhankar 360 has been in army . I could'nt name a book that he didn't study .He told me ,a comment from some one made him to start this pursuit of Jat History .He was ill that day but was the first person to reach there .I have never seen such a committed Jat leader and social worker.

    Another Historian who told about our religion and Buddhist past has written so far three books professor Gehlot was an IIT professor at Kanpur and so on ....We would be exposing our ignorance if we challenge their knowledge and commitment to our community.So please take time think and than post ,subject is important and needs serious input.
    No one is arguing about the credentials/commitment of the said individuals. But just because some one has a very strong credentials/commitment doesn't mean that others should blindly follow him/her. If the learned individuals quoted by you above believe in scientific method of questioning/verifying, they would be the most pained if people just took their words at face value without critically scrutinising their arguments.

    1. It was claimed in the declaration that practises like gotra exclusion is unique to Jats. Are these individuals unaware of some form of gotra exclusion being practised in other castes- Baniyas, Brahmins, etc?

    2. Hinduism was never a religion with one preacher, one god or one book. It broadly describes a culture or a way of life practised by the natives on the eastern side of Hindukush. If Jats are not Hindus, then are we saying that we didn't live in this land called Hindustan before the Muslims/Christians came? Did we come with other invaders?

    3. It is a moot point that Hinduism or Hindus predate Buddhism. So even if Jats were practising Buddhism, we still would have been converted (just like everyone else was). Nevertheless, what customs and traditions do we share with Buddhists? And do they even match in quantity/quality with the customs/traditions we share with Hindus?

    4. Timing of the declaration is suspect. It is a sudden reaction to the recent events challenging Khap Panchayats' role in gotra controversies (rightly or wrongly). Rather than being a gradual build up based on scholarly work.

  8. The Following User Says Thank You to kapdal For This Useful Post:

    vijay (May 15th, 2016)

  9. #27

    I am not a Historian

    I never heard/read about this Narender Ji and I am not a historian neither a scholer. My opinion about Hinduism and other subjects is based on my common sense and history read in school/college times and other resources. If there is something which is unacceptable to my common sense and inner self, I will not believe that.

    Quote Originally Posted by narenderkharb View Post
    Sitaram ji


    Do you know that Hindus in Akbar times declared King Akbar an incarnation of Lord Vishnu, If you don't believe than you can read Ain-e -Akbari By Abul Fazal..Muslims Cleric were really upset at that What should be done with these Hindus ...
    जाट महान
    ----------
    बेगानों में वफ़ा की तलाश ना कर साहिल,
    तेरे तो अपने भी अक्सर बेवफा निकलते हैं l

  10. #28
    Hindus still consider Gautam Buddha an "Avtaar" of "Vishnu". As far as the history and our historians go, I always had doubts and now my doubts are confirmed with this declaration.
    Consider kerne main kisi ka kaya jata hain, aap chaye to Obama ko Bhee Visnu ka avatar Bata sakte hain. aapko kon rokta hain.

    OK

    I met a Bhaman(Sahara TV pe Laptop laker baith ta tha, if u remember, aajkal dusre channelo par bhee kabhee-2 Dikhai dai jaata hain) in my company, He was getting his astrology software developed there. When i discussed it with him he was claiming that Gautam Budha was 10 incarnation of vishnu. He further said Prophet Mohamad, Bhagwan Mahavira, Guru Nanak Dev all are the incarnation of Vishnu.

    Mere ko Gussa to Bhut aaya , Mera man usko vahi pitne ka hua, par main aisa kar nahi sakta tha kayoki vo company main khada tha aur vo company ka chota mota client bhee to tha.

  11. #29

    Gautam was a Hindu/Sanatan dharmi

    Gautam was a Hindu/Sanatan dharmi before he founded guidelines for Buddhism and declared it a religion, it's a fact, do you or anyone else can deny this?
    Buddhism came in existence in around 500 BC as I remember, Islam in around 500 AD and same is the case for Christianity and Jainism. Can anyone tell me when Hinduism or Vedic or Sanatan Dharma came in existence, any records?
    We usually forget that Hinduism is a life style not merely a religion, as explained by many other members also, every "Bharatiya" is a Hindu, most of the Indian Muslims are converted, most of the Indian Christians are converted. Can anyone deny this? May be by force or by choice?

    Kapil has asked some very valid questions. Probably I am/was not able to convey my thoughts clearly, thumbs down to my poor English.
    Quote Originally Posted by narenderkharb View Post
    This example I gave above was just to show drama of Hindu priests ,You know these days Sai BABA is also considered avatar of Hindu Gods tomorrow Sant Bapu may too be an avatar ...


    Hinduism is separate from Buddhist and Jain religion that is a fact and and accepted as such if you dent that than it means you are denying facts and wants to discuss in Hypothetical terms.
    जाट महान
    ----------
    बेगानों में वफ़ा की तलाश ना कर साहिल,
    तेरे तो अपने भी अक्सर बेवफा निकलते हैं l

  12. #30

    ram ram

    We all use "Ram Ram" to greet each other, are we going to deny this also or are going to deny "Ramayan" and "Ram"? I think "Ram" is not related to Hinduism that's we are using this.
    जाट महान
    ----------
    बेगानों में वफ़ा की तलाश ना कर साहिल,
    तेरे तो अपने भी अक्सर बेवफा निकलते हैं l

  13. The Following User Says Thank You to sjakhars For This Useful Post:

    vijay (May 15th, 2016)

  14. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by jakhar77 View Post
    I never heard/read about this
    It is very present on internet itself ,English translation of Persian books is available on many sites...


    Quote Originally Posted by jakhar77 View Post
    I am not a historian neither a scholer. My opinion about Hinduism and other subjects is based on my common sense and history read in school/college times and other resources. If there is something which is unacceptable to my common sense and inner self, I will not believe that.
    Sitaram ji I shalll say that is an honest admission but just think when you don't know even History of Jat Khaps of your area and don't pretend to be a scholar ,How can you say these Khap elders a bunch of unintelligent people ,that was the point I objected to .

    I agree we should not believe anything blindly but should not criticize anyone blindly who in fact may be knowing much more than us.

  15. #32

    Questions....

    The declaration "We are not Hindus" is very much unintelligent Narender Ji. Why do not you take questions from Jatland and get answers from those intelligent minds? Did you read all my previous posts? Did you read the questions from Kapil and others?
    As far as I think Hinduism is in our soul, in our blood and any declaration like this one can not change that, at least mine for sure.

    -par ek baat ka dar hai, kade ye khap wale Jatland aur inke members tai koi fatwa jari na kar den, please aap sambhal lena.

    Quote Originally Posted by narenderkharb View Post
    It is very present on internet itself ,English translation of Persian books is available on many sites...




    Sitaram ji I shalll say that is an honest admission but just think when you don't know even History of Jat Khaps of your area and don't pretend to be a scholar ,How can you say these Khap elders a bunch of unintelligent people ,that was the point I objected to .

    I agree we should not believe anything blindly but should not criticize anyone blindly who in fact may be knowing much more than us.
    जाट महान
    ----------
    बेगानों में वफ़ा की तलाश ना कर साहिल,
    तेरे तो अपने भी अक्सर बेवफा निकलते हैं l

  16. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by jakhar77 View Post
    We all use "Ram Ram" to greet each other, are we going to deny this also or are going to deny "Ramayan" and "Ram"? I think "Ram" is not related to Hinduism that's we are using this.
    Ram is not patented to Hinduism in Fact Lord Sankar Bhagwan(related to Jats by Jat Historian ) is considered lord of all devas in trivistapa......

    but let us leave these side issues and keep our focus on main issue.I will like to answer Kapil who has raised certain important points.

  17. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by jakhar77 View Post
    The declaration "We are not Hindus" is very much unintelligent Narender Ji. Why do not you take questions from Jatland and get answers from those intelligent minds? Did you read all my previous posts? Did you read the questions from Kapil and others?
    As far as I think Hinduism is in our soul, in our blood and any declaration like this one can not change that, at least mine for sure.

    -par ek baat ka dar hai, kade ye khap wale Jatland aur inke members tai koi fatwa jari na kar den, please aap sambhal lena.

    Sitaram ji ..

    AAp ne to wahe baat kaar di,Sarri baat thari shir matthe ,par yo patnala aade ae padega..:rolleyes::p

    Jab aap ne bera pat gaya tha ke aap bhi puure Gayyani koni to kuyn paresan hovo so ?

    Haan Sayyad aap ne na bera Jatland ke moderator bhi ode ae thae uss din chaar member ke allawa ,Ke beera bighan enhe ka boya hoya ho ??:p :D

    Atleast three sugestion from JATLAND WERE TAKEN THAT DAY AND SOME OF THE CHANGES/relaxation IN OUR LAWS MAY WELL BE ON SUGGESTIONS OF THE Jatland members on ninth of this month but that is a democratic process and we have to wait for the final outcome.
    Last edited by narenderkharb; August 6th, 2009 at 05:17 PM.

  18. #35

    Names

    Narender Ji,
    mujhe na in khaps se problem hai na inke pradhano se. Mujhe problem hai is declaration se. agar unki baat maani jaye to hum sabko apne naam bhi change kar lene chahiye kyunki 99% naam jo jaton ke hain unme "Hindu mythologocal" naam hain. aap log jab wahan the to aapne ye baat nahi uthai wahan?
    Main pareshan nahi hoon, main ye kahna chahta hoon ki kahan ja rahe hain hum aur kahan ja rahi hain ye khap panchayaten?
    aur jahan tak Jatland Moderators ki baat hai, main pahle hi kah chuka hoon ki ye mere personal vichar hain, inka Jatland administration se koi matlab nahi hai.
    aap shayad ye soch rahe hain ki main hi kyun reply kar raha hoon, wo isliye ki main rajniti nahi janta, mujhe seedhi baat kahne ki aadat hai, cheeni me dubokar kahne ki nahi. aur ye baat sada se mere saath rahi hai. ye meri pahchan hai.
    Quote Originally Posted by narenderkharb View Post
    Sitaram ji ..

    AAp ne to wahe baat kaar di,Sarri baat thari shir matthe ,par yo patnala aade ae padega..

    Jab aap ne bera pat gaya tha ke aap bhi puure Gayyani koni to kuyn paresan hovo sai ?

    Haan Sayyad aap ne na bera Jatland ke moderator bhi ode ae thae uss din chaar member ke allawa ,Ke beera bighan enhe ka boya hoya ho ??:p :D

    Atleast three sugestion from JATLAND WERE TAKEN THAT DAY AND SOME OF THE CHANGES/relaxation IN OUR LAWS MAY WELL BE ON SUGGESTIONS OF THE Jatland members on ninth of this month but that is a democratic process .
    जाट महान
    ----------
    बेगानों में वफ़ा की तलाश ना कर साहिल,
    तेरे तो अपने भी अक्सर बेवफा निकलते हैं l

  19. #36

    Hinduism....

    Narender Ji,
    agar aap "Ram" aur "Shankar" ko Hindiusm se juda hua nahi maante to kya kiya jaye, phir aap hi bataiye Hinduism kya hai, shayad khap hi Hinduism ki definition tay karengi ab. chaliye, aap ye prashn bhi uthaiye wahan. Ram, Krishna, Shankar aadi agar Hindiusm me nahi hain to Musalman, Christians unko kyun nahi maante?
    Hinduism kya hai ispe ek article padha tha Jatland par hi ise Brahm Ji ne bhi post kiya tha Jatland, aap log bhi padh lijiye:
    http://www.jatland.com/forums/showth...light=hinduism

    is thread me sawal yahi to hai ki agar hum Hindu nahi hain to kya hain? hamara koi dharm nahi hai, nastik hain hum? Hindu kon hai India me?

    Quote Originally Posted by narenderkharb View Post
    Ram is not patented to Hinduism in Fact Lord Sankar Bhagwan(related to Jats by Jat Historian ) is considered lord of all devas in trivistapa......

    but let us leave these side issues and keep our focus on main issue.I will like to answer Kapil who has raised certain important points.
    जाट महान
    ----------
    बेगानों में वफ़ा की तलाश ना कर साहिल,
    तेरे तो अपने भी अक्सर बेवफा निकलते हैं l

  20. #37
    Sitaram ji,

    Jat hindu nahin hai, ye kehkar, Mr. Narinder aur ye so called Khap aale, ek ghatiya aur sasti lokpriyata paana chahte hain, behtar hoga inko avoid kiya jai.

    I request all jatland not to reply any post which is use less like this, which say Jat's are not Hindus.

    Ham hindu the, hindu hain aur hindu rahenge.


    Quote Originally Posted by jakhar77 View Post
    Narender Ji,
    agar aap "Ram" aur "Shankar" ko Hindiusm se juda hua nahi maante to kya kiya jaye, phir aap hi bataiye Hinduism kya hai, shayad khap hi Hinduism ki definition tay karengi ab. chaliye, aap ye prashn bhi uthaiye wahan. Ram, Krishna, Shankar aadi agar Hindiusm me nahi hain to Musalman, Christians unko kyun nahi maante?
    Hinduism kya hai ispe ek article padha tha Jatland par hi ise Brahm Ji ne bhi post kiya tha Jatland, aap log bhi padh lijiye:
    http://www.jatland.com/forums/showth...light=hinduism

    is thread me sawal yahi to hai ki agar hum Hindu nahi hain to kya hain? hamara koi dharm nahi hai, nastik hain hum? Hindu kon hai India me?

  21. #38
    "We are jats first hindus later", it was accepted by most of the jat historians..and personally i agree with it but the question is what khap panchayats intend by saying that jats are not hindus. are they tricking with judicial system by declaring themselves as non-hindus and want to execute law and order of their own. It 's ok if we don't recognise all customs and traditions floated by hindu brahmins but how can be ignorant about the fact that 90% population of jats(10 % include arya samajis and mulle jats) in haryana, UP and rajasthan is hindu .It would have been better if khap panchayat had made a responsible statement rather than this controversial one.

  22. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by jakhar77 View Post
    Narender Ji,
    mujhe na in khaps se problem hai na inke pradhano se. Mujhe problem hai is declaration se. agar unki baat maani jaye to hum sabko apne naam bhi change kar lene chahiye kyunki 99% naam jo jaton ke hain unme "Hindu mythologocal" naam hain. aap log jab wahan the to aapne ye baat nahi uthai wahan?
    Main pareshan nahi hoon, main ye kahna chahta hoon ki kahan ja rahe hain hum aur kahan ja rahi hain ye khap panchayaten?
    aur jahan tak Jatland Moderators ki baat hai, main pahle hi kah chuka hoon ki ye mere personal vichar hain, inka Jatland administration se koi matlab nahi hai.
    aap shayad ye soch rahe hain ki main hi kyun reply kar raha hoon, wo isliye ki main rajniti nahi janta, mujhe seedhi baat kahne ki aadat hai, cheeni me dubokar kahne ki nahi. aur ye baat sada se mere saath rahi hai. ye meri pahchan hai.
    Sitaram ji

    Sidhi sacchi baat Jat ki pahli pahchan hai so don't bother about that .

    Ram Krishan Arjun Gautam or Mahavir etc are not considered part of any one religion ..you will find Arjun Singh a Sikh soldier some Ram Krishan Jain a Shopkeeper or RamVilas a Hindu politician.If you see all Jain and Boddh names are similar to other Hindu names ,So it is an irrelevant issue.

  23. #40

    Hinduism and Brahmanwad

    Aap phir wahin aa jate hain Narender Ji. ye jo sikh, buddhist, Jainis hain, wo pahle kya the? aap to aise kah rahe hain jaise Hinduism naam ki koi chidia kabhi astistva me hi nahi rahi. ye sab Hinduism se hi nikle hain, agar aap is baat ko nahi maante to iska matlab hai ki Hinduism inse bhi naya religion hai, jahan tak main samjhta hoon Bharat me sirf Hindu hi rahte the jab tak ki kuch Hindu jo ki brahmno ke karm-kaand aur andhvishwas se oob gaye/pareshan ho gaye aur unko chhod ke naye panth ki sthapna ki jaise Gautam Buddha, Mahaveer Swami, Guru Nanak Dev.
    shayad aapki/khap ki najar me brahmanwad hi Hinduism hai. chaliye, ab main reply karna band karta hoon. shayad is discussion ko khatam karne ka yahi ek tareeka hai magar intelligent logon se jaisi ummid hoti hai wo poori nahi ho rahi.
    Quote Originally Posted by narenderkharb View Post
    Sitaram ji

    Sidhi sacchi baat Jat ki pahli pahchan hai so don't bother about that .

    Ram Krishan Arjun Gautam or Mahavir etc are not considered part of any one religion ..you will find Arjun Singh a Sikh soldier some Ram Krishan Jain a Shopkeeper or RamVilas a Hindu politician.If you see all Jain and Boddh names are similar to other Hindu names ,So it is an irrelevant issue.
    जाट महान
    ----------
    बेगानों में वफ़ा की तलाश ना कर साहिल,
    तेरे तो अपने भी अक्सर बेवफा निकलते हैं l

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