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Thread: Sorry not Hindus ...Religion of Jats

  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by narenderkharb View Post
    Sitaram ji

    Sidhi sacchi baat Jat ki pahli pahchan hai so don't bother about that .

    Ram Krishan Arjun Gautam or Mahavir etc are not considered part of any one religion ..you will find Arjun Singh a Sikh soldier some Ram Krishan Jain a Shopkeeper or RamVilas a Hindu politician.If you see all Jain and Boddh names are similar to other Hindu names ,So it is an irrelevant issue.
    Yes, they are common names because they are all native religions. Hinduism is just a name that is given to the common culture/believes/value system that exists all across India. It is a relatively new name as well. Hundreds of years ago, this term was not even known. Sikhism, Buddhism, Jainism all came from within Hinduism. They all made certain changes to the native religion so as to "reform" the social practises. That is why they share so much with other Hindus. That is why the constitution of India includes references to Hindu to include all other native religions. We share as much of the commonalities with Hinduism as brahmins, gujars, yadavas, dalits, etc. As for differences, all castes have their own unique customs and traditions. You want to have Hindu names, pray to Hindu gods, have Hindu scriptures and yet call yourself as non-Hindu! There is always a constituency for weird ideas, but don't expect it to fly with many.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by prashantacmet View Post
    "We are jats first Hindus later", it was accepted by most of the jat historians..and personally i agree with it but the question is what khap panchayats intend by saying that jats are not hindus. are they tricking with judicial system by declaring themselves as non-hindus and want to execute law and order of their own. It 's ok if we don't recognise all customs and traditions floated by hindu brahmins but how can be ignorant about the fact that 90% population of jats(10 % include arya samajis and mulle jats) in haryana, UP and rajasthan is hindu .It would have been better if khap panchayat had made a responsible statement rather than this controversial one.

    Parshant

    To cut a long story short Khap heads wanted to make it clear that we were First Vedic Dharmi than Buddhist we have certain customs and traditions that are our own and we value them.So far you don't interfere in our affairs we have no problem with you.However we were never formerly inducted in Hinduism from Buddhist past .So laws made for general Hindus does not hold good for us .This does not mean that Jat Khaps declared themselves as Buddhists but some were saying we are Vedic Dharmi different from Sanatni Hinduists and some thought of making our own religion ,in-fact Intellectual and KHAPS ARE VERY DIVIDED ON THIS ISSUE .What I predict is they are going to declare themselves as Vedic Dharmis different from from Brahmanical or Sanatani version of Hinduism and later who knows we may see rise of a Jat Dharam.

  3. #43

    Thanks

    Thanks Kapil for summing it up, crystal clear, thats what I wanted to convey with my poor English. This English work environment could not improve my English but definitely degraded my Hindi.
    Quote Originally Posted by kapil.dalal View Post
    Yes, they are common names because they are all native religions. Hinduism is just a name that is given to the common culture/believes/value system that exists all across India. It is a relatively new name as well. Hundreds of years ago, this term was not even known. Sikhism, Buddhism, Jainism all came from within Hinduism. They all made certain changes to the native religion so as to "reform" the social practises. That is why they share so much with other Hindus. That is why the constitution of India includes references to Hindu to include all other native religions. We share as much of the commonalities with Hinduism as brahmins, gujars, yadavas, dalits, etc. As for differences, all castes have their own unique customs and traditions. You want to have Hindu names, pray to Hindu gods, have Hindu scriptures and yet call yourself as non-Hindu! There is always a constituency for weird ideas, but don't expect it to fly with many.
    जाट महान
    ----------
    बेगानों में वफ़ा की तलाश ना कर साहिल,
    तेरे तो अपने भी अक्सर बेवफा निकलते हैं l

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by jakhar77 View Post
    Thanks Kapil for summing it up, crystal clear, thats what I wanted to convey with my poor English. This English work environment could not improve my English but definitely degraded my Hindi.
    I thought your posts were very clear as well. I saw nothing wrong with the language.

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by jakhar77 View Post
    Aap phir wahin aa jate hain Narender Ji. ye jo sikh, buddhist, Jainis hain, wo pahle kya the? aap to aise kah rahe hain jaise Hinduism naam ki koi chidia kabhi astistva me hi nahi rahi. ye sab Hinduism se hi nikle hain, agar aap is baat ko nahi maante to iska matlab hai ki Hinduism inse bhi naya religion hai, jahan tak main samjhta hoon Bharat me sirf Hindu hi rahte the jab tak ki kuch Hindu jo ki brahmno ke karm-kaand aur andhvishwas se oob gaye/pareshan ho gaye aur unko chhod ke naye panth ki sthapna ki jaise Gautam Buddha, Mahaveer Swami, Guru Nanak Dev.
    shayad aapki/khap ki najar me brahmanwad hi Hinduism hai. chaliye, ab main reply karna band karta hoon. shayad is discussion ko khatam karne ka yahi ek tareeka hai magar intelligent logon se jaisi ummid hoti hai wo poori nahi ho rahi.
    Sitaram ji

    Jab aap maante hain ki Hindu naam hi naya hai to phir Boddh Jain religion ko Hindu religion se kyon pada karte ho ?

    Let us consider there was a dharam some vices like varn Vayvastha ,karam Kand etc crept in to it and from this different new religions originated Buddhists Jains etc,Jats joined Buddhism later first Huns than alliance of Kasim and native priests destroyed Buddhist Jat power and Kingdom completely.Than came rise of feudal forces in Rajsthan who actively supported old sanatani version of Hinduism.

    Now tell me How Jats became Sanatani Hindus again in this scenario.

  6. #46

    Can't stop laughing.....

    main nahi maan raha, aapki baaton se lag raha tha ki aap aisa maan rahe hain isliye maine likha tha, main to kah raha tha/hoon Bharat me kewal Hindu hi rahte the jab tak ki Buddha, Mahaveer aur Guru Nanak ne naye panth nahi chalaye the aur Islam aur Christianity ka aagaman nahi hua tha. Hinduism is the oldest religion on this earth. Pahle isko Vedic kaha, phir ise Sanatan kaha aur ab ise Hindu dharm kahte hain aur mujhe isme koi shaq nahi hai. samay ke saath isme badlav jarur aaye hain magar ye teeno alag alag bilkul nahi hain. I think I have made myself clear now.
    maine kaha tha reply band kar raha hoon magar aapki is bachkani baat ne mujhe majboor kar diya. shayad aap kuch nahi samajh pa rahe hain ki aap kya chahte hain, kya sochte hain, kya kahte hain, kya karte hain.
    Now I can understand how intelligent our Khap pradhans are? May god bless Jats magar konsa god ye to khap tay karengi.
    Sorry for being sarcastic but I can't help it.
    Quote Originally Posted by narenderkharb View Post
    Sitaram ji

    Jab aap maante hain ki Hindu naam hi naya hai to phir Boddh Jain religion ko Hindu religion se kyon pada karte ho ?

    Let us consider there was a dharam some vices like varn Vayvastha ,karam Kand etc crept in to it and from this different new religions originated Buddhists Jains etc,Jats joined Buddhism later first Huns than alliance of Kasim and native priests destroyed Buddhist Jat power and Kingdom completely.Than came rise of feudal forces in Rajsthan who actively supported old sanatani version of Hinduism.

    Now tell me How Jats became Sanatani Hindus again in this scenario.
    जाट महान
    ----------
    बेगानों में वफ़ा की तलाश ना कर साहिल,
    तेरे तो अपने भी अक्सर बेवफा निकलते हैं l

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by kapil.dalal View Post
    You want to have Hindu names, pray to Hindu gods, have Hindu scriptures and yet call yourself as non-Hindu! There is always a constituency for weird ideas, but don't expect it to fly with many.
    Kapil

    As I wrote earlier Buddhist consider Sankara lord of Devas and Have names that are similar sanatanis but they are non Hidus ,
    that is a fact accepted by Indian GOVERNMENT.

    Is it weired ???

    Sikhs pray Hari Guru Govind Singh worshiped Durga and Shiva have Sanatani names ,they are considered non Hindus

    Is it weired ???


    And yes who told you that khap wants to have some sanatani Hindu scriptures ??? at least I don't know any plan regarding that .

  8. #48

    Smile ham buddhhyan gel hain !

    Quote Originally Posted by aryasatyadev View Post
    Rightly said bro....... today they are calling us non hindus, tommorow anything else....... haven't they heard of freedom of religion........ and these some so called Buddhijivi Jats will creat problems for whole community.
    ham budhhyan gel sain bhaae kise nai aanaa ho to aao na to marji !

    bujurg bandde jo karte hain sahi karte hain ! they might not have heard thousand and one thing , they might not be very intellectual people like u but it is sure that they r more intelligent !

    how ? because they r doing all these things for u people !
    1.Meflan-ch jatt di pichaan wakhree (indeed).

    2.Upon knowing the ultimate truth, the foolish become wise, and the wise become silent.

  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by narenderkharb View Post
    Sitaram ji

    Jab aap maante hain ki Hindu naam hi naya hai to phir Boddh Jain religion ko Hindu religion se kyon pada karte ho ?

    Let us consider there was a dharam some vices like varn Vayvastha ,karam Kand etc crept in to it and from this different new religions originated Buddhists Jains etc,Jats joined Buddhism later first Huns than alliance of Kasim and native priests destroyed Buddhist Jat power and Kingdom completely.Than came rise of feudal forces in Rajsthan who actively supported old sanatani version of Hinduism.

    Now tell me How Jats became Sanatani Hindus again in this scenario.
    Bhai, this is not some jaadu mantar ki jaadhui chhadi se chhoo diya to sab buddhist ban gaye. Ab waapas nahin chhua to Hindu nahin bane. History is mostly speculation. What we know is present. And everyone knows how Jats have been living now and in the recent past. We go to Hindu temples, pray before Hindu gods, have the usual Hindu customs with some variations of our own. What Buddhist stuff do we practise? Do people in villages even know who Buddha was? The same bade-boodhe who would tell you the full history of gotras, can they tell you anything about teachings of Buddha? They would still know Gayatri Mantra, stories of Hindu gods and the other usual stuff about Hinduism. So Jats remained Buddhists yet forgot everything about it, and gave up Hinduism while kept on with Hindu customs!!??

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by narenderkharb View Post
    Kapil

    As I wrote earlier Buddhist consider Sankara lord of Devas and Have names that are similar sanatanis but they are non Hidus ,
    that is a fact accepted by Indian GOVERNMENT.

    Is it weired ???

    Sikhs pray Hari Guru Govind Singh worshiped Durga and Shiva have Sanatani names ,they are considered non Hindus

    Is it weired ???


    And yes who told you that khap wants to have some sanatani Hindu scriptures ??? at least I don't know any plan regarding that .
    This is what Indian constitution says. This is what I was talking about and had posted earlier as well. You seem to have missed it.

    "The Constitution-makers were fully conscious of this broad and comprehensive character of Hindu religion: and so, while guaranteeing the fundamental right to freedom of religion, explanation II to Art. 25 has made it clear that in sub-clause (b) of clause (2), the reference to Hindus shall be construed as including a reference to persons professing the Sikh, Jam or Buddhist religion, and the reference to Hindu religious institutions shall be construed accordingly." <!-- / message -->

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by jakhar77 View Post
    Sorry for being sarcastic but I can't help it.
    Never mind I can understand that .
    It is a basic rule that governs all such discussions .

  12. #52
    Bhai kapil

    Jae Sitaram ji nai rest le liya ho to aap se bhi gallan sallan kar lenya........???

  13. #53

    Absolutely Kapil

    And today our Khap leaders have woken up from "gahri neend" and declared that We are not Hindus but Buddhist.
    itni sadiyon tak kahan gayi thi ye khaps, kyun nahi bataya ki hum Hindu nahi buddhist hain. ab kisi ko sapna aaya lagta hai, Mahatma Buddha ne in khap pradhano se kaha hoga ki rrre ke karo so, mera naam bhool ge, jaago aar Jatan ne batao ki wo Hindu na hain Buddhist hain.
    @#$%$#@^&*^&%$#$#@@%&
    yo ke likh diya, manne bhi na bera.

    Quote Originally Posted by kapil.dalal View Post
    Bhai, this is not some jaadu mantar ki jaadhui chhadi se chhoo diya to sab buddhist ban gaye. Ab waapas nahin chhua to Hindu nahin bane. History is mostly speculation. What we know is present. And everyone knows how Jats have been living now and in the recent past. We go to Hindu temples, pray before Hindu gods, have the usual Hindu customs with some variations of our own. What Buddhist stuff do we practise? Do people in villages even know who Buddha was? The same bade-boodhe who would tell you the full history of gotras, can they tell you anything about teachings of Buddha? They would still know Gayatri Mantra, stories of Hindu gods and the other usual stuff about Hinduism. So Jats remained Buddhists yet forgot everything about it, and gave up Hinduism while kept on with Hindu customs!!??
    जाट महान
    ----------
    बेगानों में वफ़ा की तलाश ना कर साहिल,
    तेरे तो अपने भी अक्सर बेवफा निकलते हैं l

  14. #54
    Simple basic rule of such discussions...

    As you loose on arguments you will show more desperation ,Sarcasm and offense in your posts .Take it easy bhai ji.

  15. #55
    OK Kapil can you list your questions and let us try to be as brief as possible.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by narenderkharb View Post
    OK Kapil can you list your questions and let us try to be as brief as possible.
    Bhai kati brief mein le le..post # 7, 26, 49. Aur bhi do teen hongi, apne hi ID se post ki hain maine, zyada dhoondne ki zaroorat nahin padni chaahiye....

  17. #57
    Le Kapil pahle teri iss page aali ne dekh lenya...

    Quote Originally Posted by kapil.dalal View Post
    History is mostly speculation. What we know is present.
    History is not mere speculation ,, Jats have recorded Buddhist by various authors at various times.There are both direct and indirect references regarding that .Chinese in Han chronicles mentions for the first time about Jats residing on river Sihun being follower of religion of Fo (Buddhism). Even in Buddha times King Uddayan who is mentioned as Jat in Arya Manju Shri Mulkalpa bows his head to Gautam and follows BUDDHISM ,Arabian Muslim writers in Chachnama refers about Jats being followers of Buddhism mentioned as Samanis they followed the custom of honoring by tieing a turban on head .Various kings considered Jats like Asoka ,Kushana and Harshwardhana are reported followers of Buddhism.In fact the entire Area of Jat inhabitance that is Silk Road from India is reported under Buddist influence.


    Now let us move on What these Hindus granths tell about Jats ....


    Majmul ul Tawarikh mentions from ancient Sanskrit literature that there was no Brahman in Land of Jats and they were settled there on the request of sister of Duryodhan .

    Puranas call this land as land of Malecchas and a Brahman should never visit these lands .If he visit this land he must take bath and clean himself before doing any thing.

    Mahabharata wrote a lot about these adharmi Jartas and I should not quote that defamatory material which is already known to other historian .

    Another Puran calls these Sakas Pahlavas and Kambojas Jats as Degraded Kashtriyas as they didn't follow Hinduism (Brahmans)

    So in short we may say Yes Jats did adopt Buddism and were though alien by Hindu priests .
    Last edited by narenderkharb; August 6th, 2009 at 11:41 PM.

  18. #58
    Sorry repost.
    Last edited by narenderkharb; August 7th, 2009 at 12:17 AM.

  19. #59
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    And I always wished that we could do more constructive things in the lil time that life spares us !

  20. #60
    I never heard/read about this Narender Ji and I am not a historian neither a scholer. My opinion about Hinduism and other subjects is based on my common sense and history read in school/college times and other resources. If there is something which is unacceptable to my common sense and inner self, I will not believe that.

    Khali common sense se kaam nahi chalta, Aur jo apne school/college main Jo history padhi se na vo Hindua kee History kade tai aagi.

    Can you give me dates when hindu rulled India?
    and please provide links etc

    I doubt ever they have done so.

    Jo bhee Hindu History hain vo saari ke saari mythological hain.

    I think you forgot the rule of
    -British - Christian
    -Mughal/Islamic
    -Budhist (It goes to 500 BC).

    500 BC to 1947 AD tak dusre dhramo ka rule raha hain (500 BC se pehale bhee ho sakta hain) And after 1947 , sabhi dhramo ka.

    So please don't tell me that Budhist rule is hindu rule.

    First of all the word Hindu was not present that time. It only began appearing after 9-10 AD.

    Ho Sakta hain ab aap Ramayan aur Mahabharat ke baat karo.
    Lekin Baat kerne se pehle aapko Ramyan aur mahabharat main hindu Dhram aur hinduo ke baare main likha hua dikhana Hoga.

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