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Thread: Sorry not Hindus ...Religion of Jats

  1. #121
    Col saab, I have mixed view on your 2nd comment, some I like and some I differ a bit. But its a good topic and I thank you for that

    Quote Originally Posted by Fateh View Post
    Brother,
    In our country, does sikhism, budhism, jainism, christianity etc restrict you from progress?
    Parsies have a small strength in numbers, they have a totally different faith, and are progressing much better, than others. Thus no religion will effect your progress at least in India.
    A wonderful point you made, if we chose so then religion is neither an enabler nor an impediment, which means no need for us to be dogmatic about any religion, being liberal and tolerant is enough.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fateh View Post
    The fact is, if you are from a minority faith, your good work will be recognized faster & accordingly reward will be many fold better.
    Interesting point, yes agree it gives a higher degree of VISIBILITY which comes with its own set of pros (good deeds recognized more) and cons (higher degree of scrutiny, need to consistently keep reproving oneself, lacking mass lobbying power (which partially can be overcame if a minority community has financial power, e.g. jews and parsi), and so on)

    Quote Originally Posted by Fateh View Post
    JUST AS THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE IN CONGRESS & BJP, SIMILARLY THERE IS NO BASIC DIFFERENCE IN ANY RELIGION.
    All religion are same in the sense that they all have 3 parts:
    1. Some timeless commonsense e.g. dont steal, dont hurt, etc. This COMMON SENSE can be followed WITHOUT BELIEVING IN ANY RELIGION.

    2. Mithya/falsehood: Some stuff that has been outright proven wrong by the multitude of scientific discoveries e.g. there are no monkey-god MUTANTS (Hanuman, etc), no earth was not created 5000 years ago as Christianity and Islam claims and it is not a circular disk rather an almost spherical ball, etc. We must reject this crap written in all religious books.

    3. Some myths: things that science, due to its current limits, unable to subject to rational evidence-based inquiry, with progressive advancement of science more and more things are (e..g from molecules to atoms, from atoms to nano-particles, our scientific understanding continues to become more granular and we are able to investigate newers things that we were not able to test before) can be tested, as a result this body of untested myth in religion will shrink as they scientifically get tested with future advancement of the science, and once tested either they will move to the first buckets (timeless commonsense that can be practiced without believing in superstition called religion) or the 2nd bucket (bull sh*t in religion).

    All religions suggest that DO NOT ACCEPT WITHOUT FIRST TESTING, but they offer no RATIONALLY VERIFIABLE EVIDENCE-BASED means of testing of claims of religion's doctrines. Problem with religion is that science readily accepts what it does not know (vacuum in current knowledge) where as EACH RELIGION TRIES TO "AUTHORITATIVELY" EXPLAIN THE UNEXPLAINABLE (and untestable) with MYTHICAL BULL SH*T. When LOGIC stops, religion/faith begins i.e. religion is for the intellectually-lazy people who would readily accept myth as facts instead of work on overcoming deficiencies of the current scientific methods that will enable us to test the untestables in future. In the times of calamities or distress, people tend to seek the religion more, what they actually need is COUNSELORS and SUPPORT SYSTEM, not the myth and religious superstition and baba shabba, etc.

    Without religion, we have one less religion to hate and kill each other. Religion by offering absurd mythical answers to the unknowns, acts as hindrance to the scientific exploration of the TRUTH. In that sense, religion is anti-FACT, thus propagation of any religion is partially (I use the term partially, because point-1 common sense is still valid knowledge) tries to keep us in dark.

    Besides neurological studies have concluded that excessive belief in religion causes PERMANENT BRAIN DAMAGE TO HYPOCOMPUS REGION which is responsible for the RATIONAL AND ANALYTICAL REASONING, no wonder religious people fail to see the falsehood of their religion despite the scientific evidence to the contrary.

    ALL RELIGION ARE BS, they are bogus unproven products, they are antithesis of their own doctrines, in reality they do opposite (hate, kill, divide, discriminate, tool for mass domination) of what they promise (love, freedom and peace)

    So the best we could do is free ourselves from the OPIUM OF THE MASSES ... freedom from RELIGIOUS CONDITIONING that had been ingrained from childhood, ... even Swami Dayanand said "if in future things I taught do not hold the test of time and science, then discard those and evolve new"

    So lets embark on the PURSUIT OF RATIONAL INQUIRY. No more baba, shabba, religion, etc.


    Quote Originally Posted by Fateh View Post
    Just as political parties all politicians are fooling the public, similarly through religions all contractors of religion are enjoying at the cost of the simple public. Since the religion is a way of life, why cannot we adopt our own way of life, a jat way of life where we do not even depend for small small things on selfish contractors of religion.

    As per my knowledge, understanding & belief, Jas are . They have a different way of life with a different thinking & different practices, but today we are confused between jat, Hindu, Ariya samaj, Sikh & upto some exten muslim way of life due to varrious reasons. Lately, we are getting some blue colouring of christianity tooo.
    I do not believe Jats (or others) are confused, these days people are EXPOSED TO MORE DIVERSE INFLUENCES including other religions, that does not make one confused. DIVERSITY IS GOOD, though a larger set of options makes the decision making harder.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fateh View Post
    Thus don't you think, we should adopt one way of life & that is our own jat way of life - which is simple, more suitable for us & if not better than any other way of life & on top of that we will get benefits of minority status too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fateh View Post
    On a practical level, , y there will be not much of difference in our day today life, except that we will get rid of many useless practices & dependency on other people & at the same time we get few extra advantages of minority status.
    Personally I believe that we should ask a tribe status beside minority faith. regards
    We have enough religions to make us hate each other, we do not need more SH*T, no more religion. NO religion, means less wars and superstition. I also suggest that readers please peruse the WORLD VALUE SURVEY and SCHWARTS VALUE SURVEY, etc. These are multi-year longitudinal studies, that have concluded that there is an emerging patter, poorer nations believe more in superstition and religion, as nations gain more affluence they can afford education and their belief in religion and superstition reduces. Belief in religion is linked with affluence.

    My wish for all JATs, TAMSO MA JYOTIR GAMYA, i.e. let there be no religion except humanity and freedom, WE DO NOT NEED ANY INSTITUTIONALIZED RELIGION, let there be NO RELIGION, ONLY AFFLUENCE (so that we can afford education, not religious indoctrination).

    JATs it ......... raam raam
    Last edited by vdhillon; November 26th, 2014 at 06:26 PM.

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  3. #122
    Quote Originally Posted by Prikshit View Post
    Bhaio jat ne jat bana rehan dyo Wo bahut badi baat se. Rauj nayi thoery aur committee baithani thik nhi.
    My suggestion came when mr Hawa singh, ex CRP, suggested that jats should adopt sikh religion, I do not want to change jat that is why my suggestion came, secondly, I do not consider Hindu, Muslim, christen, sikh etc as religion, these are social organisations, KARAM HI DHARAM HAE, SO JATS ARE ALREADY FOLLOWING THE REAL RELIGION, Benifits of jat religion--more unity, cooperation from muslim/sikh jats, all benifits of minority religion in our country, a seperate identity at international level, so brother my aim is not to change jats rather to make them strong jats

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  5. #123
    मुस्लिम धर्म को मानने वाले पैगंबर मोहम्मद साहब की छत्रछाया के नीचे हैं, ईसाई धर्म को मानने वाले ईसा मसीह के नीचे और जाट धर्म को मानने वाले आदरणीय कर्नल खर्ब के नीचे...बढ़िया है...लेकिन मुस्लिमों ने तो मस्जिद बनवाई, मोहम्मद साहब को सम्मान देने के लिए हज करते हैं, ईसाइयों ने भी चर्च बनवाए और ईसा मसीह को सम्मान देने के लिए क्रिसमस मनाते हैं...और तो और सिख गुरु नानक को और जैन महावीर को सम्मान देने के लिए तरह-तरह के आयोजन करते हैं। जाट धर्म को मानने वाले इस दिशा में क्या कर रहे हैं??? यदि जाट धर्मी इस दिशा में कुछ नहीं करेंगे तो फिर जाट धर्म अपनाने के इच्छुक अन्य लोग इस धर्म के प्रति कैसे आकर्षित होंगे???
    Last edited by upendersingh; December 11th, 2014 at 04:09 PM.

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  7. #124
    Quote Originally Posted by upendersingh View Post
    मुस्लिम धर्म को मानने वाले पैगंबर मोहम्मद साहब की छत्रछाया के नीचे हैं, ईसाई धर्म को मानने वाले ईसा मसीह के नीचे और जाट धर्म को मानने वाले आदरणीय कर्नल खर्ब के नीचे...बढ़िया है...लेकिन मुस्लिमों ने तो मस्जिद बनवाई, मोहम्मद साहब को सम्मान देने के लिए हज करते हैं, ईसाइयों ने भी चर्च बनवाए और ईसा मसीह को सम्मान देने के लिए क्रिसमस मनाते हैं...और तो और सिख गुरु नानक को और जैन महावीर को सम्मान देने के लिए तरह-तरह के आयोजन करते हैं। जाट धर्म को मानने वाले इस दिशा में क्या कर रहे हैं??? यदि जाट धर्मी इस दिशा में कुछ नहीं करेंगे तो फिर जाट धर्म अपनाने के इच्छुक अन्य लोग इस धर्म के प्रति कैसे आकर्षित होंगे???
    Brother, no desire to be head of jat religion but I want serve the community as much as I can, even brother we call maha sevak in our khanp instead of president, from my childhood I believe in serving people, I wish that all religious functions should be organised/controlled in our community by our people, we should not waste money and remain slave of few people of perticular community, your kind suggestion would be taken care at correct time, jats would be performing most of ceremony as done now with some useful changes wich jats believe/practice even now

  8. #125
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    A very interesting discussion initiated by Narender Kharb on whether the Jats are strictly Hindus or not had attracted the attention of the veterans of the site to participate in it. It requires revisit by the new comers like us to understand the Jat psyche in proper perspective as to what is the real position of the Jats regarding their religious moorings.
    History is best when created, better when re-constructed and worst when invented.

  9. #126
    Quote Originally Posted by aryasatyadev View Post
    These so called Buddhijivi Jats, should first know who is Hindu and what is Hinduism:
    (Following are the excerpts of my reply when somebody asked my credentials of being Hindu, if I believe in Arya Samaj)
    1. Hindu or Hinduism is absent from the early sacred litrature of Indian origin.
    2. The actual term “Hindu” first appeared as an Old Persian geographical term (derived from the river Sindhu), to identify the people who lived beyond the River Indus.
    3. “Hindu” became equivalent to anybody of “Indian” origin who was not otherwise belonging to a religion of Abrahamic denomination, thereby encompassing a wide range of religious beliefs and practices.
    4. One of the accepted views is that “ism” was added to “Hindu” around 1830 to denote the culture and religion of the high-caste Brahmans in contrast to other religions.
    5. In 1995, Chief Justice P. B. Gajendragadkar was quoted in an Indian Supreme Court ruling:"When we think of the Hindu religion, unlike other religions in the world, the Hindu religion does not claim any one prophet; it does not worship any one god; it does not subscribe to any one dogma; it does not believe in any one philosophic concept; it does not follow any one set of religious rites or performances; in fact, it does not appear to satisfy the narrow traditional features of any religion or creed. It may broadly be described as a way of life and nothing more."
    6. Hinduism differs from Christianity and other Western religions in that it does not have a single founder, a specific theological system, a single system of morality, or a central religious organization. It consists of "thousands of different religious groups that have evolved in India since 1500 BC".
    7. Most forms of Hinduism are henotheistic religions. They recognize a single deity, and view other Gods and Goddesses as manifestations or aspects of that supreme God. Henotheistic and polytheistic religions have traditionally been among the world's most religiously tolerant faiths.

    There is a word called "Hind".

    Anyone living in the land of "Hind" is called "Hindustani" but the word "Hindustani" does not state any one "religion".

    There is no religion as "Hindustani".

  10. #127
    Quote Originally Posted by Fateh View Post
    Brother, no desire to be head of jat religion but I want serve the community as much as I can, even brother we call maha sevak in our khanp instead of president, from my childhood I believe in serving people, I wish that all religious functions should be organised/controlled in our community by our people, we should not waste money and remain slave of few people of perticular community, your kind suggestion would be taken care at correct time, jats would be performing most of ceremony as done now with some useful changes wich jats believe/practice even now
    You are true, Sir. I have got new proof. It is Honourable Narender Kharb Ji who gave the idea of Jat Dharam even before you, dated 6 August 2009 (Link). So he is the chieftain. Here is that post :


    Quote Originally Posted by narenderkharb View Post
    To cut a long story short Khap heads wanted to make it clear that we were First Vedic Dharmi than Buddhist we have certain customs and traditions that are our own and we value them.So far you don't interfere in our affairs we have no problem with you.However we were never formerly inducted in Hinduism from Buddhist past .So laws made for general Hindus does not hold good for us .This does not mean that Jat Khaps declared themselves as Buddhists but some were saying we are Vedic Dharmi different from Sanatni Hinduists and some thought of making our own religion ,in-fact Intellectual and KHAPS ARE VERY DIVIDED ON THIS ISSUE .What I predict is they are going to declare themselves as Vedic Dharmis different from from Brahmanical or Sanatani version of Hinduism and later who knows we may see rise of a Jat Dharam.

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  12. #128
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    To my mind, the members of the site by and large have become members of the site on the condition that they are Hindu Jats.

    Isn't so !
    History is best when created, better when re-constructed and worst when invented.

  13. #129
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    Jats are more liberal, unorthodox and tolerant as regards their religious moorings but they cannot deny that they do not profess Hinduism. At the present juncture, there is no such religion as can be designated as Jat Dharma but about future who can predict Jat Dharma may be a reality if its protagonists seriously continue their efforts to give it sound theoretical foundation.
    History is best when created, better when re-constructed and worst when invented.

  14. #130
    Bahio jitni Marji apney ney Hindu keh lo, Hum Hindu Koni! Na there is any identity for us in Hindu religion. That's the reason majority of Jats embraced Sikhism and have a separate identity! Our way of living is more Vedic and close to principles of Sikhism!
    Stop Common nonsense

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  16. #131
    If Hindu Dharm means way of life then the meaning of Jat dharm should be the same. There is no one name for Hindu religion, therefore there is no harm accepting jatizm as the name of religion. No need to change the religion just change the name. We should start a new tradition of using JAT as a surname. There is no need for any master for the sect. Jat dharm needs only freedom of thinking and faith in God.
    The day we stop learning is the day we stop living.

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  18. #132
    इस थ्रेड का जो शीर्षक है, वह भ्रामक है...Sorry not Hindus ...Religion of Jats...हिंदू क्या किसी की खुशामद कर रहे हैं कि खुद को हिंदू मानो? मेरा ख्याल है जाट धर्म के संस्थापक आदरणीय नरेंद्र खर्ब अपने अनुयायी जाटों को सही मार्ग दिखाएंगे...भले ही अभी खर्ब साहब के इन अनुयाइयों की संख्या उंगली पर गिनने लायक है, लेकिन उम्मीद की जानी चाहिए कि ये अपने जाट धर्म का पूरा सम्मान करेंगे और जिस प्रकार ईसाई जीसस क्राइस्ट को, मुस्लिम पैगंबर मोहम्मद को, बौद्ध गौतम बुद्ध को और सिख गुरु नानक को सम्मान देते हैं, उसी प्रकार खर्ब साहब के अनुयायी उनको यथोचित सम्मान देंगे। तभी तो जाट धर्म का नाम होगा और मेरे जैसे स्वाभिमानी हिंदू भी जाट धर्म के बारे में सोचना शुरू करेंगे। यदि जाट धर्म को मानने वाले खुद को गुरु मंत्र देने वाले गुरु के प्रति शीश नहीं झुकाते तो खर्ब साहब को ऐसे लोगों को जाट धर्म से बाहर का रास्ता दिखा देना चाहिए। जाट धर्म को मानने वाले खर्ब साहब की छत्रछाया के नीचे हैं, यदि वे ऐसा नहीं मानते तो वे गद्दार हैं, जो जीवन में कभी किसी का अहसान मानेंगे ही नहीं। ऐसे लोगों के कुछ भी कहने का कोई महत्त्व नहीं होता, लेकिन खर्ब साहब जैसे महापुरुषों का हृदय बहुत बड़ा होता है और वे तुच्छ प्राणियों से भी कोई वैर नहीं रखते

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  20. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by upendersingh View Post
    इस थ्रेड का जो शीर्षक है, वह भ्रामक है...sorry not hindus ...religion of jats...हिंदू क्या किसी की खुशामद कर रहे हैं कि खुद को हिंदू मानो? मेरा ख्याल है जाट धर्म के संस्थापक आदरणीय नरेंद्र खर्ब अपने अनुयायी जाटों को सही मार्ग दिखाएंगे...भले ही अभी खर्ब साहब के इन अनुयाइयों की संख्या उंगली पर गिनने लायक है, लेकिन उम्मीद की जानी चाहिए कि ये अपने जाट धर्म का पूरा सम्मान करेंगे और जिस प्रकार ईसाई जीसस क्राइस्ट को, मुस्लिम पैगंबर मोहम्मद को, बौद्ध गौतम बुद्ध को और सिख गुरु नानक को सम्मान देते हैं, उसी प्रकार खर्ब साहब के अनुयायी उनको यथोचित सम्मान देंगे। तभी तो जाट धर्म का नाम होगा और मेरे जैसे स्वाभिमानी हिंदू भी जाट धर्म के बारे में सोचना शुरू करेंगे। यदि जाट धर्म को मानने वाले खुद को गुरु मंत्र देने वाले गुरु के प्रति शीश नहीं झुकाते तो खर्ब साहब को ऐसे लोगों को जाट धर्म से बाहर का रास्ता दिखा देना चाहिए। जाट धर्म को मानने वाले खर्ब साहब की छत्रछाया के नीचे हैं, यदि वे ऐसा नहीं मानते तो वे गद्दार हैं, जो जीवन में कभी किसी का अहसान मानेंगे ही नहीं। ऐसे लोगों के कुछ भी कहने का कोई महत्त्व नहीं होता, लेकिन खर्ब साहब जैसे महापुरुषों का हृदय बहुत बड़ा होता है और वे तुच्छ प्राणियों से भी कोई वैर नहीं रखते
    Aap har kisi ko bahar ka rasta dikhane ka guru mantra bahut siddat se bantate ho. Kisi ko to baksh do bhai !!
    History is best when created, better when re-constructed and worst when invented.

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  22. #134
    Quote Originally Posted by DrRajpalSingh View Post
    Aap har kisi ko bahar ka rasta dikhane ka guru mantra bahut siddat se bantate ho. Kisi ko to baksh do bhai !!

    डियर फ्रेंड डॉ. जांघू, मैं किसी को बाहर का रास्ता दिखाने वाला कौन होता हूं? मैं आपसे पूछता हूं कि यदि जाट धर्म का अस्तित्व माना जाए तो क्या आदरणीय नरेंद्र खर्ब को कोई श्रेय नहीं जाना चाहिए? आइडिया (गुरुमंत्र) देना बहुत मायने रखता है। यदि आपको कुछ नागवार गुजरा हो तो कृपया बताएं, आगे से ऐसा कहना बंद कर देंगे।

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  24. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by upendersingh View Post

    डियर फ्रेंड डॉ. जांघू, मैं किसी को बाहर का रास्ता दिखाने वाला कौन होता हूं? मैं आपसे पूछता हूं कि यदि जाट धर्म का अस्तित्व माना जाए तो क्या आदरणीय नरेंद्र खर्ब को कोई श्रेय नहीं जाना चाहिए? आइडिया (गुरुमंत्र) देना बहुत मायने रखता है। यदि आपको कुछ नागवार गुजरा हो तो कृपया बताएं, आगे से ऐसा कहना बंद कर देंगे।
    Aap Hindu dharma kee vartamaan halaat per koi tippni kare to use Hindu Dharma chhodne kee salah dete rahate hain !

    Abhi 'Jat Dharma' naam ka koi sangthan bana bhi nahin to wohi baat aap yahan kah rahe ho, isliya mujhe uprokat tippani karane ko mazboor hona pada !!

    Friend, Yah baat to aap bi manenge kee Shreya dena alag baat hai aur bahar ka rashta batane ki slah dena alag baat hai ! Baaki Shri Karb ko aap kya dete hain aur woh aap se kya lete hain woh aap donon behatr jano !
    History is best when created, better when re-constructed and worst when invented.

  25. #136
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    Could anybody throw light on the social standing of Jats in the Hindu society today as per caste code prescribed by Manu and followed by us on the following two points, please:

    Is the standing of Jats in the Hindu society equal to DWIJS or Sudras as per code of Manu and why it is so or to say what makes them to be counted among the dwijs or sudras and if not, then why not ?

    or in other words, are they accepted as equal to Brahmins, Kshatriyas, Vaisyas or sudras. and; why they are considered to belong to one group and not to the other group !

    Kindly extend help to solve the puzzle and oblige.
    Last edited by DrRajpalSingh; December 26th, 2014 at 05:17 PM.
    History is best when created, better when re-constructed and worst when invented.

  26. The Following User Says Thank You to DrRajpalSingh For This Useful Post:

    narenderkharb (December 26th, 2014)

  27. #137
    Sir,

    Please elaborate how does being a Jat according to you puts you at a disadvantage in the present day scheme of things?

    1. Are you not allowed to apply for any job?
    2. Are you stopped from applying to any educational course?
    3. Are Jats stopped from visiting temples?
    4. Are Jats not allowed to celebrate festivals?

    How are Jats treated as Shudras in the present day?

    Quote Originally Posted by DrRajpalSingh View Post
    Could anybody throw light on the social standing of Jats in the Hindu society today as per caste code prescribed by Manu and followed by us on the following two points, please:

    Is the standing of Jats in the Hindu society equal to DWIJS or Sudras as per code of Manu and why it is so or to say what makes them to be counted among the dwijs or sudras and if not, then why not ?

    or in other words, are they accepted as equal to Brahmins, Kshatriyas, Vaisyas or sudras. and; why they are considered to belong to one group and not to the other group !

    Kindly extend help to solve the puzzle and oblige.

  28. #138
    Quote Originally Posted by upendersingh View Post

    डियर फ्रेंड डॉ. जांघू, मैं किसी को बाहर का रास्ता दिखाने वाला कौन होता हूं? मैं आपसे पूछता हूं कि यदि जाट धर्म का अस्तित्व माना जाए तो क्या आदरणीय नरेंद्र खर्ब को कोई श्रेय नहीं जाना चाहिए? आइडिया (गुरुमंत्र) देना बहुत मायने रखता है। यदि आपको कुछ नागवार गुजरा हो तो कृपया बताएं, आगे से ऐसा कहना बंद कर देंगे।
    अनुज उपेंदर का अघाद प्रेम व श्रद्दा देख कर मेरा हर्दय गद गद हो गया​ है!

    , जहाँ तक जाट धरम का विषय है वो किसी की बपोती नहीं है जो कोई किसी को उसमे शामिल करे या निकल सके ,जाट धरम तो हर उस जाट का है जिसने brahmanical हिंदूइस्म को नहीं अपनाया!


    मुझे लगता है पंज प्यारो की तरह जाट धरम में पहला कन्वर्शन उपेंदर भाई जी करना पड़ेगा!
    Last edited by narenderkharb; December 26th, 2014 at 07:08 PM.

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    abhisheklakda (February 1st, 2015)

  30. #139
    कुछ ओर पूछा गया था आप से..

    Quote Originally Posted by AbhikRana View Post
    Sir,

    Please elaborate how does being a Jat according to you puts you at a disadvantage in the present day scheme of things?

    1. Are you not allowed to apply for any job?
    2. Are you stopped from applying to any educational course?
    3. Are Jats stopped from visiting temples?
    4. Are Jats not allowed to celebrate festivals?

    How are Jats treated as Shudras in the present day?




    social standing of Jats in the Hindu society today as per caste code prescribed by Manu ????

  31. #140
    What I predict is they are going to declare themselves as Vedic Dharmis different from from Brahmanical or Sanatani version of Hinduism and later who knows we may see rise of a Jat Dharam.[IMG]file:///C:/DOCUME~1/Admin/LOCALS~1/Temp/msohtmlclip1/01/clip_image002.gif[/IMG]

    मेरा ख्याल है जाट धर्म के संस्थापक आदरणीय नरेंद्र खर्ब अपने अनुयायी जाटों को सही मार्ग दिखाएंगे...

    Mr Kharb has no where taken credit to start JAT Dharm, it’s the interpreter who has made the sense in his own way. The words ‘I predict'and ‘later who Knows'used in the sentence in question have their separate sense. Further, Mr Kharb has shown patience on the issue. All expect proper respect words from fellow members.

    Thanks
    Last edited by RKhatkar; December 26th, 2014 at 10:01 PM.

  32. The Following User Says Thank You to RKhatkar For This Useful Post:

    spdeshwal (December 27th, 2014)

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