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He was the father of GHOTAALAAs too. As far as I know, our country saw maximum no of scams during his tenure. Urea scam, Sugar scam, Fodder scam.Originally Posted by ssgoyat
He was the father of GHOTAALAAs too. As far as I know, our country saw maximum no of scams during his tenure. Urea scam, Sugar scam, Fodder scam.
My two cents
Each one had good points and large failings.
Who is The best PM of India ?? Indira Gandhi Had an aura but she brought in emergency
P V Narasimha Rao did bring reforms along with Man Mohan Singh as his finance Minister
Jawahar Lal Nehru We worshiped him , a visionary but responsible for the 62 Debacle
Lal Bahadur Shashtri possibly responsible for the return of the hard won Hagi Peer Pass, where my friend Maj Ranbir of Punjab died fighting
Rajeev Gandhi could have been the best if had lived brought in technology
Atal Bihari Vajpayee the right man in the wrong Party
Pick your choice from wht I have writtem Bls31
I 'concur' with you bro. Just that you forgot few ghotalas:
How come people can forget that Mr PVNR had given direct access of PM House to Tantrik Baba Chandraswami --- Baap and mediator of all GHOTALAs......!!!!! <please read my prev post on it...>
It was PVNR who saved his govt by buying JMM MPs... I heard about Mr Shibu Soren first time then..... Even Bhajan Lal bought few MPs from Bansilal and saved the govt.... Bhiwani MP Jangbir Singh was one of them.
Remember 2 suitcases given containing Rs 1 Crore just to save Harshad Mehta?
Ek Manmohan Singh ko Finance Minister bana diya to PVNR ji best PM
On similar reasoning, can we say Rahul Dravid has been the best Indian cricket team captain so far? I don't think so. Being honest and approachable alone doesn't necessarily make one the best leading a group or a nation.
My vote - Indira Gandhi
Of all the things that tax a man's patience, there's nothing to compare with a stuck zipper.
Chandraswami ka chamatkar, Ganesh piye doodh ki dhar
Urea, sugar, fodder?.. bhai ये भी कोई स्कैम हुए.. सारे स्कैमा का ताऊ.. ओ सूंड आला गणेश भगवान भी दूध पीवे था PVNR के टैम मै. :D:D By God रे, निररी जनता पागल होगी थी... ठाय ठाय हांडे थे लोट्या णे मंदिर के चुगरदे णे.
Of all the things that tax a man's patience, there's nothing to compare with a stuck zipper.
Best post on this thread (?).... Ho gayi rating Prime Ministers ki ....dimaag kharaab ho gya tha........mushil tein Abhimanyu ne kaalja sheela kara s.....ha ha ha ha ha!!! Good mood refresher !!! :rock:rock:rock:rock:rock
PS: Lets get back to topic now !!
Dear Mr. Jeet,
You missed out on "Manmohan Singh", "Morarji Desai", "Indra Kumar Gujaral", "Chandra Shekhar", "H D Devegowda", "Vishwanath Pratap Singh", and our own caretaker PM "Ch Charan Singh".
Col (Retd) Virendra Tavathia
"A person should not be judged by the nature of his/her job, but the manner in which he/she does that".
in my view, lal badhur shatri is the best
Respected Col Uncle,
I think I didn't miss any of the names you mentioned, intentionally I didn't put their names in list. Reason being, their incompetency ... yes they didn't deserved to be in the poll list since their tenure was disastrous and they damaged more than building the nation.
BUT I didn't mention Great leader Ch Charan singh name because he couldn't serve as PM for long, he hardly remained on the seat for 6-7 months. Had he remained for longer time period, I'm pretty sure he would have done great to uplift and devlop the nation but unfortunately he couldn't remain there for long.
I made the list of former PMs if you noticed. No doubt Manmohan singh is really a nice and honest PM and he also has done some good work in his last tenure but since he is back on the seat, so decided not to keep his name and settled to evaluate and discuss the former PMs work only.
Apart from Manmohan Singh and Ch Charan Singh .. other PM names you mentioned didn't do anything commendable to discuss.
Hope it clarifies my part.
Regards
Jit
.. " Until Lions have their historians, tales of the hunt shall always glorify the hunter! " ..
When I saw the poll first, only two name came in my mind and that were Smt. Indira Gandhi and Sh. Rajiv Gandhi, not that I am Gandhi Family loyal or a blind supporter of congress either but these two stand out of all others.
Smt. Indira Gandhi for her determination and socialistic thinking, nationalization of banks, Population control ( Sanjay Gandhi) and 1971 war. If she had been so bad than Indians wouldn't have elected her after a short period of 2 years or so. Helping rise "Bhindrawale" was her biggest mistake I think.
Sh. Rajiv Gandhi for his dream of 21st century India, a modern India. I think this globalization seed was sown in his tenure. Like Pawaria Ji said, if he had lived longer, probably India would have been in a far good position. Youngest PM of India was a youth icon and who inspired many young Indians. Peace forces in SL was Rajiv Gandhi's biggest mistake I think.
I voted for Rajiv Gandhi and believe me, when he was assassinated, I could not believe that the news was correct.
On a side note, if you ask who was the worst PM ever then no other than VP Singh will be my choice.
जाट महान
----------
बेगानों में वफ़ा की तलाश ना कर ‘साहिल’,
तेरे तो अपने भी अक्सर बेवफा निकलते हैं l
I disgaree about gandhis. Indira or rajeev. Indira gandhi abused the trust people placed on her. The emergency, the contempt for judiciary, using bhindarwale. Uska ladka sanjay engaged in forced sterlisations. Rajeev gandhi ne 1984 organized killings of sikhs in delhi okay karee thee. Dwon with these nakli gandhis. ab sonia aaye bete haee.! kyon? kya congree wale napunsak haeen ki ek italian mahila ko hindustan chalene ke liye bulwa liya?
Honesty is number criteria mere liye. Lal bahadur shastri is number one. Uska koi personal agenda nahe tha. Usne kabhi religion ke liye aapas me logoon ko nahee bhidwaya.
I wonder kya uska katal hua tha tashkent mein?
Jai jawan jai kisan.
I'd actually stick my neck out and go with Nehru. Not much credit is given to him nowadays as we are in a different milieu altogether. His choice of socialist policies find no favor today. My biggest problem with Nehru is going for socialism and planned economy instead of giving free enterprise a chance. But that is with the benefit of hindsight. Both capitalism and communism were strongly competing ideologies of that era, and India went for a sort of middle path. He also made some historical blunders on Kashmir, China, etc. But all that is again with the benefit of hindsight. All these situations were really tricky. For example, people find Nehru's promise of holding a plebiscite in Kashmir and agreeing to UN intervention as sacrilegious. But what needs to be understood is that India made such a strong bid for Kashmir in the first place just because of Nehru's strong emotional attachment to Kashmir (he is a Kashmiri Pandit). That period was so chaotic that not many people would have even bothered about Kashmir. There were big question marks on a number of other issues. And it was pretty much accepted that Kashmir being a muslim majority state would go to Pakistan. But Nehru put a very strong case in front of Mountbattens. And there were a number of other factors involving key players like Hari Singh, Abdullah, Nehru, Mountbatten and Patel. Eventually he did agree to a few things that look very stupid now, but it was a dispute with situation evolving on a daily basis. Mistakes were bound to happen.
Why I choose him despite these issues is because he led the nation during its most chaotic time. There were question marks on India's unity, democracy, secularism, etc. at the time of independence. Many felt that the country would collapse under the weight of its on contradictions. One has to say that Nehru did provide a very strong foundation. One can only compare today's India with Pakistan/Bangladesh to see the impact of a strong foundation (or lack of it). He played a pivotal role in ensuring that India became a democratic and secular country (Note the threat from single party dominance of Congress which could have led to one party rule in perpetuity. And the huge temptation to become a Hindu state because of parition). Of course, he was not alone and there was a strong support cast in Patel, Ambedkar, Rajgopalachari, etc. But credit goes to him as he was leading the ship. He also got it right in terms of institution building- IITs, dams, central universities, etc. There are a lot of things about modern India that we take for granted, but may have not been there had a strong leadership not been provided at the outset.
As for the others:
Shastri: Didn't serve for a long time. Don't know anything noteworthy done by him apart from the one slogan- Jai Jawan Jai Kisan. Interestingly, he does have high popularity ratings, mostly because anyone who doesn't like Nehru-Gandhi dynastic rule automatically likes him.
Indira Gandhi: There is not much to say on her as well. 1971 war was not one of India's or Indira's choice. It was literally forced on us because of the refugees flooding from East Pakistan. One can say that she did provide strong leadership during the war. But that was her job. Wars are won by armies and not leaders. Leaders decide when to start and when to stop (not saying that is not important) and to manage domestic/international pressure in between. They get more than their fair share of credit for doing this. Incidentally, she was about to get the start wrong. She had made up her mind to start the war in May-June 71 when armed forces were not ready. Sam Manekshaw put his foot down and insisted they wait till Nov-December. Otherwise, 1971 could have been a different story. She also didn't do a very good job post-war when we had Pakistan by its balls. India could have got much much more in return than the measly Shimla Agreement, which is not worth the paper it is written on. Then there was Emergency. Nothing, absolutely nothing justifies the goonda-gardi that happened in the name of national interest. It is one of the darkest chapters in modern Indian history. And finally operation Blue Thunder- what about it? The problem was of her own making. Bhindranwale was nothing until she propped him up. He was the proverbial Frankenstein's monster who came back to haunt her. Incidentally, most strategic thinkers now agree that Operation Blue Thunder could have been carried out in a much better way- like Hazratbal. What else is there to on Indira's resume to talk about in the 15 years she practically ruled the country? Her rule was "my way or highway" and she spent most of the time strengthening her grip on power than doing any "good work".
Rajiv Gandhi: He would remain an unknown commodity. The one time he got to rule with an immense mandate, he couldn't do much about it. A reluctant politician, I guess he spent most of the time getting used to power. He does get credit for starting to relax the license-permit Raj. He had his own botch ups like IPKF and Bofors. Probably someone with the right ideas and heart at the right place. We would never know.
PV Narsimha Rao: He again gets too much credit for liberalisation, which was almost forced upon India because of balance of payment crisis. Manmohan was anyways steering the economy. Rao can be given credit for letting Manmohan do his job. Rest of his stint was only about corruption and ensuring he remained in power. But yes, he did rule over a period of time that is a watershed in modern Indian history- from license permit raj to open economy and from single party rule to coalition era.
Vajpayee: Unfortunately, my biggest emotion with respect to Vajpayee is that of disappointment. He had everything going for him. Everyone, even the opposition, liked him or atleast didn't dislike him. After the nuclear tests, he literally had the nation feeding from his hands. I still remember the time- the national mood was at an all time high. He could have probably channelized it into something really unique. But it didn't happen. He was not a bad PM from any angle. He has quite a few things to his credit- nuclearization, giving India-US relationship a new boost (something that looked impossible post tests), giving Indian foreign/trade policy a new direction, the highways, etc. In fact, in this list, he would be the 2nd best for me. The disappointment is just because of the high expectations one had from him. I think he spent too much time focusing on Pakistan and trying to get permanent peace from a truant general. If he could have just let it be, and concentrate more on getting things done at home.
Jit bhai, great VP Singh should be there in list, he is the harbinger of this reservation menace and that is what we are discussing on JL for so long......
"Similia Similibus Curentur"
Sitaram bhai, how can one forget the sound sleeper Deve Gowda.....
"Similia Similibus Curentur"
ABVP
He is the one laid foundation of current India. He did what everyone was scared of....Nuclear Bharat.
1. Get rid of loyality and thought about the interest of the nation. Engaged with the best to get the best on defence side. I am talking about stopped relying on unreliable friend Russia and enhanced relations with USA and Israel.
2. Determined: Cool and determined. Remember Kargil...not bending to the pressure of world.
3. Pradhan Mantri Gram Sadak Yojna: The current Govt may take credit for this but it was visionary Vajpayee jee who launched this.
4. Pay Jal yogna: He was the one having vision of declaring water as federal resources
5. Social Security Card was his vision for every citizen.
6. His Govt laid foundation for Farmer Bank card etc.
7. First PM to run a NON Congress Govt. for more than 6 years setting the current trend.
People say right man in wrong party. My take is right man cannot be in wrong party.
First PM to challenge Gandhi parivar and I am sure if he would have been in politics currently he would have been PM again.
I always believed we need a leader not a follower
-Virender M.
kapil, tks for yr elaborative post. impressive !!!
just one simple Q... do you think sardar patel wud hv done better, had he been the pm then ? i guess nehru was a big hindrance in letting s.patel implement his strategies. being a home min. more credit goes to him (not nehru) to handle the chaos then by forging a united India from the 565 semi-autonomous princely states nd british-era colonial provinces. ... right ?
thanks for giving + pts of nehru nd neglecting his errors with the most appropriate words - "hindsight". i feel these two errors were worth a fortune. history will n'vr forgive him for that. going by an old saying... "no one remembers when i do a thing right, no one forgets when i do a thing wrong"... blunders (wrong doings) like these cannot be forgiven, come what may... i wud use "poor vision" instead of yr saving words for him - "hindsight".
! ... be BOLD in what you stand for !
... the destiny of india changed when sardar patel was denied p.m'ship from (wud be) a successfull democracy to absolute monarchy (nehru-gandhi dynasty) and to demo(n)cracy as it is in its present state.
JL Nehru: He committed some grave mistakes like:
1. Taking Kasmir issue to UN (1948) and stopping VB Patel invading Pakistan. This is the root cause of current Kashmir problem. India could not get its territories occupied by Pakistan in 1947-48.
2. Trusting china (हिंदी चीनी भाई भाई), though this was the incident when India started to think about its very weak defense potential.
3. Mixed economy I mean समाजवादी मिश्रित अर्थव्यवस्था
And I agree that Nehru was also partially involved in India's partition in 1947 as claimed in newly controversial book by (Former) BJP leader Jaswant Singh. People also accuse him of power hunger.
LB Shastri: We respect Shastri Ji for his honesty, we read about him in our textbooks how poor he was, how he managed to go to school by swimming as he had no money for "नाव", his mysterious death in "Tashkand" (whatever the spelling is) etc. etc. and we idolize him out of sympathy not for his achievements. And I do not see any big achievement by him as India's PM. His
historical "ताशकंद समझौता" did not get India its parts Pakistan had occupied.
(Someone might accuse me for my ? superficial knowledge but thats what I have.)
जाट महान
----------
बेगानों में वफ़ा की तलाश ना कर ‘साहिल’,
तेरे तो अपने भी अक्सर बेवफा निकलते हैं l
.
Enlightening reply that makes sense !
Thank you Bhaisaab for valuable contribution.
JL Nehru: He committed some grave mistakes like:
1. Taking Kasmir issue to UN (1948) and stopping VB Patel invading Pakistan. This is the root cause of current Kashmir problem. India could not get its territories occupied by Pakistan in 1947-48.
2. Trusting china (हिंदी चीनी भाई भाई), though this was the incident when India started to think about its very weak defense potential.
3. Mixed economy I mean समाजवादी मिश्रित अर्थव्यवस्था
And I agree that Nehru was also partially involved in India's partition in 1947 as claimed in newly controversial book by (Former) leader Jaswant Singh. People also accuse him of power hunger.
LB Shastri: We respect Shastri Ji for his honesty, we read about him in our textbooks how poor he was, how he managed to go to school by swimming as he had no money for "नाव", his mysterious death in "Tashkand" (whatever the spelling is) etc. etc. and we idolize him out of sympathy not for his achievements. And I do not see any big achievement by him as India's PM. His
historical "ताशकंद समझौता" did not get India its parts Pakistan had occupied.
(Someone might accuse me for my ? superficial knowledge but thats what I have.)
.. " Until Lions have their historians, tales of the hunt shall always glorify the hunter! " ..
Brahm,
My intention is not to give him a clean chit. Not at all. Or to neglect his errors- if I was doing that, why would I list them in the first place? The comparison was between the people listed here- so Patel was not part of my analysis. And I do believe he towers over people listed here. As for mistakes, everyone in the above list has his/her share of blunders. I was just putting Nehru's mistakes in context. Kashmir was not a case of poor vision. No one initially envisaged Kashmir as a part of India. Simply because by geography and demography, it was a natural claim for Pakistan. But it was Nehru who couldn't see an India without Kashmir because of his own Kashmiri identity. So before giving him brickbats for his Kashmir errors, give him credit for putting pressure on Mountbattens to get Kashmir in India. And even the mistakes can't be termed as poor vision. It was just poor strategy, which can be clear only in retrospect (For example, I won't call Indira's Blue Thunder as poor vision, but wrong strategy). Imagine 1947-48 with the country blowing up at many places, each and every region being contested, Britishers and other international forces pursuing their own agenda. It was a highly volatile situation, almost war-like. His steps have to be judged in that context, rather than from comforts of our own armchairs. What one can definitely say is that his actions emanated from a desire to do good. Again not saying that is enough. But can we even say the same for the likes of Indira and Narsimha? As for China, I'd agree that was poor vision. He just didn't understand the devil he was dealing with. And these are not the only 2 mistakes. He made lots of other mistakes. I am myself a big critic of his policies. But a wholesome view has to take into account his contribution to nation building at the most critical juncture. Doesn't mean I am a fan, just means that of the above, he is the best for me.
The question on Patel is hypothetical. I don't know the answer. I am a Patel fan and he definitely deserves credit for the way he dealt with the princely states. Certainly, he is one of the important architects of modern India (Unfortunately though the history we are taught largely remains silent on the role played by others like Mountbattens, Jinnahs, etc.). Between Patel and Nehru, I would have certainly voted for Patel had I been around back then. My heart is with Patel, but my mind is not that sure. One thing which Nehru had which not many of his peers could boast of was a progressive and liberal vision. As I said in my earlier post, there are a lot of things about modern India that we take for granted, but may have been in doubt had we not got the foundation we got. Nehru was not the sole person responsible for it, but the captain of the ship is responsible for its direction. You also have to take into account that Patel was not around for many years, though I certainly wish he was, to serve as a strong opposition to Nehru. Another person who I wish had more power with respect to economic affairs was Rajgopalachari, the only notable leader who espoused private enterprise over state hegemony.
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