Lucky Lad Dhoni Lucky No More?

[Samarkadian]

Guys,

Disasterous performance in two major international ICC events World Cup T20 09 and ICC Champions Trophy 09 by Indian criket team under the captaincy of blue eyed boy MS Dhoni of Indian Criket is apparent. I am not counting bi and tri series here. Indian criket team seems full stomach and satisfied and followers scracthing hair. In India, as psyche, we can not afford to loose atleast since a decade or so. I admit Indians fans have become more demanding than ever. But money involved with Indian team playing anywhere nowadays decides the fate of tournaments.

What do you think Indian team is living up to this new opportunity in world criket?

Who's next man in line to wear the cap?

But before that is it time for selectors to look beyond MS Dhoni?


In my opinion, Dhoni should not be the leading in all formats. He has lost his natural game of hitting evidently. He is good for T20. There is need to be decentralisation of captaincy for the healthy performances in upcoming times.

[malikdeepak1]

A common saying "A captain is as good as his team". Akela chana bhaad nahi fod sakta.

True Indian team is faltering at big stage, but all of the blame can't be put on Dhoni alone. Since he is captain he has to be blamed for the loss. But Team selection has a major role in recent defeats in ICC events. Sehwag, Zaheer, Yuvraj are injured, but the sad thing is we don't have bench strength to replace such players. Bowlers let India down. RP, Ishant were totally out of sorts. Even bhajji failed this time around. Jab main strike bowlers hi fail ho jayenge to captain kya karega??

Captain sirf field set kar sakta hai, par uske according bowling bowler ko karni hoti hai. In my opinion more than anything else these three bowlers were main reason for our team's failure in Champions trophy. Look how Australians won it without Michael Clarke, haddin and Bracken, all of them are Best in their fields for Australia. This is coz they have players who can rise to occassion and fil the gap created by injury or selection whatever. Watson opened, he performed! Siddle came in , he performed! Paine came in, he too performed!

Indeed Dhoni is having more burden, he has to keep wickets, captain the side and then batting. But apart from one decision(Jadeja in T20) I can't see any flaw in his captaincy. Agar team perform nahi karegi to Dhoni akela kya karega??

Yahi situation Sachin ke time hoti thi jab wo captain tha. Wo akela kitne match jitwa sakta tha. uski captaincy me kabhi koi player nahi chla. At least Dhoni has got a good team, but he lacks bench strength. More stress should be given on improving domestic circuit to evolve good players.

Baki paise ne in sabka dimag khraab kar rkha hai. Ishant ko saal me 5 crore milte hai. Itna paisa dikhta hai to jo pace bowlers starting me 145 ki speed se ball daalte hai wo 125 pe aake ruk jate hai. Sochte hai ki paisa to mil hi rha hai , kyu bevjah jor lagaya. Attitude also needs a change. Don't shower money on them blindly. BCCI should keep a check on this.

[kapdal]

Baki paise ne in sabka dimag khraab kar rkha hai. Ishant ko saal me 5 crore milte hai. Itna paisa dikhta hai to jo pace bowlers starting me 145 ki speed se ball daalte hai wo 125 pe aake ruk jate hai.

Venkatesh Prasad ka role bhi investigate karna chaahiye. He seems to be the graveyard of all Indian pace bowlers. Sab 140+ pe start karte hain, and then they come down to 125. Prasad is the bowling coach. He is known for nothing else but his humungous variety of slow, slower and slowest bowls. I am sure he is teaching all that jazz to his "students".

[vicky84]

Venkatesh Prasad ka role bhi investigate karna chaahiye. He seems to be the graveyard of all Indian pace bowlers. Sab 140+ pe start karte hain, and then they come down to 125. Prasad is the bowling coach. He is known for nothing else but his humungous variety of slow, slower and slowest bowls. I am sure he is teaching all that jazz to his "students".

Bhai mughe ek time yaad aata hai...jaab Indian team Aus tour pe thi..i think 1999 mei...not able to recall exactly wat year was that..but Parsad se jayda speed Anil Kumble daal raha tha(@124 KMPH)...aur Parsad ki bowling speed thi (120 KMPH)...taab laga ki Parsad team mei kyo hai...

[malikdeepak1]

Venkatesh Prasad ka role bhi investigate karna chaahiye. He seems to be the graveyard of all Indian pace bowlers. Sab 140+ pe start karte hain, and then they come down to 125. Prasad is the bowling coach. He is known for nothing else but his humungous variety of slow, slower and slowest bowls. I am sure he is teaching all that jazz to his "students".

Bilkul hona chaiye bhai kapil. Ar ek ya MRF pace academy band honi chaiye. ya bhi bowler ka satyanaash kar de se.
Ek bar Wasim Akram ne ek interview me kaha tha ki Imran Khan ne us se yahi kaha tha ki jitni tej daal sakte ho ball dalo. need not worry about ur line and length, wo to apne aap aa jayegi dheere dheere. Par speed ek bar gayi to fer ulti nahi aawegi.
Par Bharat aale gugga 1-2 match me to haanga dikhawe se (Munaf started at 145+ but came down drastically to 125, Similarly Ishant started around 143+ but now delivers max of 133), fer fuu bol jya se.

Yu prasaada kime manter maare se laage. Is Ishant ne Aus te aaye pacche ek ber bhi dhung te baal nahi fenk li.

[malikdeepak1]

Parsad team mei kyo hai...

Bhai fer dusri team aale chakke kiske maare hai je yu nahi hove hai?? :p

Jayasuriya ne bhoot bna rakhya tha iska mar chakkyan :D Sari dhaal ki ball fenk ke dekh li bichare ne, slow, slower, slowest, par koe fayda nahi hoya isne. jaysuriya isne jibe ground te bahar bhej de tha :rock
Poori jindagi me ek suthri ball fenki thi isne, wo Aamir Sohail out karya tha quarter-final me 96 ke world cup me. Fer to nire chakke e marwaye gya:boxing

[kapdal]

Poori jindagi me ek suthri ball fenki thi isne, wo Aamir Sohail out karya tha quarter-final me 96 ke world cup me. Fer to nire chakke e marwaye gya:boxing

Bowl to woh bhi chhakke waali thi (I remember it was very short), par Sohail ki maran maut aa rahi thi...

[malikdeepak1]

Bowl to woh bhi chhakke waali thi (I remember it was very short), par Sohail ki maran maut aa rahi thi...

Par us gindu ne match ka rukh palat diya tha bhai. To suthri me e count kar li mane :D

[Nishantrathi82]

Although i may be bit early on my call but Gambhir may be the best one to replace Dhoni in future.
And no comments of performance

[sanjeev_balyan]

Actually format of ICC Champions Trophy was not good, if u loose one match than u r out, the same was happened to India. u see India and SA , the no 1 & 2 of ICC ranking that time, were out from SFs. so blaming the captain is not correct, actually we can’t digest the defeat at any cost, if 2maro the same team wins continuous than everybody will say something else, this is in our blood, be practical, these guys r not super humans.

[sunillathwal]

Actually format of ICC Champions Trophy was not good, if u loose one match than u r out, the same was happened to India. u see India and SA , the no 1 & 2 of ICC ranking that time, were out from SFs. so blaming the captain is not correct, actually we can’t digest the defeat at any cost, if 2maro the same team wins continuous than everybody will say something else, this is in our blood, be practical, these guys r not super humans.

Earlier CT format used to be knock-out.. u lose one match, u are out of championship that day itself.. No??

i like that format better!!
Team who win all of its matches is a true champion team. Teams reaching SF/ QF by permutations & combinations should not be called a winner or champion.
Indian team was not good enough and deservingly crashed out of the CT.
Reg Capt: Dhoni's aura is wanning (for sure) and so is his luck and batting. Dhoni has changed his batting style quite a lot, seeing him bat is a pain..
Lets face it: he doesn't have a good technique.. In last 2 years or so, he is managing to score some runs but big shots (he was known for) are gone.. he defends awkwardly... can NOT accelerates the run rate (in recent times) and so on!! but he is/was managing to score 30-40 runs somehow and team as a whole was doing good.. so nobody actually noticed the 'decline' in his batting (in fact many claimed it is 'adaptation' as per teams' need).

Now some key players are missing (injured), team is not doing good... everything about Dhoni looks vulnerable... Big innings are long due from the skipper.. If his 'rough phase' runs longer coupled with some injury, we might see a new caption !!

Sehwag has already expressed his 'no interest' in Indian captaincy (though after some time he declined this 'no interest' statement); only Yuvraj and Gambhir are other contenders for the post!! Lets see what happens next!!

[anilsinghd]

Bowl to woh bhi chhakke waali thi (I remember it was very short), par Sohail ki maran maut aa rahi thi...

Perhaps too tough on the Prasad , We all remember that "GREAT" ( it indeed was one of the greatest Test innings) by Tendulkar in the Chennai test where we lost by 12 runs eventually after being so close to win it!

What we do not remember is that Prasad actually bowled India to possible-Glory ( getting 6 for 33 , in the process getting Shahid Afridi as well when he was making a mockery of Indian bowlers!) , and to give India a sniff at the target. Pakistan slumped from 4-275 to 286 all out. ( 5 of 6 wickets falling were taken by Prasad).

He was good against Pakistan anywhere specially the WCs.

[rocky0036]

Guys,

Disasterous performance in two major international ICC events World Cup T20 09 and ICC Champions Trophy 09 by Indian criket team under the captaincy of blue eyed boy MS Dhoni of Indian Criket is apparent. I am not counting bi and tri series here. Indian criket team seems full stomach and satisfied and followers scracthing hair. In India, as psyche, we can not afford to loose atleast since a decade or so. I admit Indians fans have become more demanding than ever. But money involved with Indian team playing anywhere nowadays decides the fate of tournaments.

What do you think Indian team is living up to this new opportunity in world criket?

Who's next man in line to wear the cap?

But before that is it time for selectors to look beyond MS Dhoni?


In my opinion, Dhoni should not be the leading in all formats. He has lost his natural game of hitting evidently. He is good for T20. There is need to be decentralisation of captaincy for the healthy performances in upcoming times.

bhai ye tho sabse bada sacch hai ki uska luck usse yha tak le aya

sachin
virnder shewag
v.laxman
rahul
gangualy

bhai in playero ka game majedaar rha hai

kyunki in sab playero main kala naam ki chiz hai
na dhoni ki trha sirf 6 marna ata ho
india ne 50 se jayda match asie hare hai jin main dhoni 2nd batting main notout aya hai or bhi 50+ karke

pata nhi dhoni kis style se khelte hai
muje tho lagta hai uske din gaye

[anilsinghd]

On Topic though , Do not feel that there is any change needed. Dhoni had his share of the beginner's luck or "the honeymoon period" , whatever you might like to call it.

He is a shrewd guy and so as per me very much suited for the job , he has arrogance , thats another thing that is needed!

There will be couple of hiccups here and there , law of averages does not spare anyone!
Specially on the Champions trophy , I think he was really hard done , he himself said that he got few balls to play in the whole tournament , but he has himself to blame probably. I watched those 9 balls he played against Pakistan and he was not comfortable , that is bound to happen if you do not play your natural game or if you are under pressure/nervous. I think he has got into a mindset that he can push singles around and then boom boom only at the end , I am not saaying he should hit out , but he should play proper cricket. In most of those 9 balls , he was playing with a pre-defined mindset to nudge a single and to rotate the strike , that is certainly not the way to go! Play the balls on their merit!

Also I felt a bit of bad planning/calculations by the Indian Team. I still cannot justify on why Kohli needed to loft Afridi when you are chasing 303 , you are at 21.3 ovr mark and are 126-2 and Dravid ( who has mroe than 10k ODI runs) is batting at the other end. The only explanation that I can digest is that Dravid asked Kohli to hit out. When you have people like Dhoni ,Raina , Pathan still to come and 5 overs of batting powerplay still to come , you dont need to do that bullshi*t! Fine , if you fancy yourself , want to be heroic , ask you captain or senior player on how about taking a powerplay and then probably your loft will fall safe or tickle over the fence!

Delaying powerplay till the very end is something that most teams have done wrong and India was no exception. When Raina hit Shoiab Malik for 14 in an over and they were slogs(!!) , guess they should have taken the powerplay. SL did a great job about powerplays against NZ and got more than 50-ish in the powerplays and they were able tohave run rate better than SA ( but that did not matter in the end !).

Guess , they need to plug the small holes and we would be good to go and back with the winning ways!

If one Pathan is not worky ,I think India should try the other Pathan , i.e. Irfan.

[singhabhimanyu]

आज बोलिंग कोच परसाद टीम में क्यूँ है? इशांत शर्मा की सपीड अचानचक क्यूकर गिर गी? जिब इशांत का हे परसाद बनाना था ते इरफान पठान नै के बिटोडे फूक राखे थे, बैटिंग तो कर हे लेता.

...taab laga ki parsad team mei kyo hai...

[singhabhimanyu]

okay. jst curious to know how many balls did Dhonaa get to play in T20 cup? whats the explanation to his thunderous (read blunderous if thts some word) performance in tht tournament? leave it. I agree tht against Pak we needed to preserve wickets but then its okay. the team knows best about their approach. if u ask me, Irfan Pathan is irreplaceable in one-dayers. no substitute! leaving him out was a mistake.

... he himself said that he got few balls to play in the whole tournament

[anilsinghd]

okay. jst curious to know how many balls did Dhonaa get to play in T20 cup? whats the explanation to his thunderous (read blunderous if thts some word) performance in tht tournament? leave it. I agree tht against Pak we needed to preserve wickets but then its okay. the team knows best about their approach. if u ask me, Irfan Pathan is irreplaceable in one-dayers. no substitute! leaving him out was a mistake.

I did not fully support Dhoni , infact what I said was that it is still not time to sack him but dhoni needs to play his natural game.

he struggled in champions trophy even when he played so less.


anyways ... here are the stats you demanded , jsut for info purposes!


run/ball
26/21
14/13
11/23
30/20
5/12

not good , i agree!


but the main reason i can find is that he is taking too much stress , he thinks he can stabilise and stay till end and blast everything out of the ground at death ...


remmeber when tendulkar went into his shell , people were talking about his "sansyaas" , but he came back playing his natural game ..

[singhabhimanyu]

I've not said tht u've supported or 've been against Dhoni. i was surprised on dhoni's statement tht he got only 9 balls to play n all tht crap. super-gimpy excuse on Dhoni's part.
another thing, everytime federer loses he says "i did not play my natural game, or I was not at my best". He praises his opponents only when they lose to him. lol! what I feel is this is the most feeble excuse a plyer can ever make. a player always plays his natural game. if Mr xyz hits Mr abc for six 4s in an over and in the next match he's not able to repeat his performance then he cant say like "i didnt play my natural game" or "i was not at my best". this is rubbish. howsoever a player plays under certain conditions is his natural game. even if a swashbuckling batsman is subdued with fear of some superfast express bowler and gets on the defensive then his fear is also natural and very much part of his batting style. Batting is not what with you do with ur bat but also what u do with ur mind. same applies to bowling. even if someone goes into a custodial shell or bursts out of thundering clouds, its all natural. One's game is always natural just tht the performance varies with varying conditions.

note- anil, i dont really mean to offend u but i dont like "natural game" phrase.

I did not fully support Dhoni , infact what I said was that it is still not time to sack him but dhoni needs to play his natural game.

he struggled in champions trophy even when he played so less.


anyways ... here are the stats you demanded , jsut for info purposes!


run/ball
26/21
14/13
11/23
30/20
5/12

not good , i agree!


but the main reason i can find is that he is taking too much stress , he thinks he can stabilise and stay till end and blast everything out of the ground at death ...


remmeber when tendulkar went into his shell , people were talking about his "sansyaas" , but he came back playing his natural game ..

[malikdeepak1]

One's game is always natural just tht the performance varies with varying conditions.

No Abhimanyu. Natural game is the one which a player plays irrespective of circumstances or varying conditions. Its the one which you have always played without fearing any bowler. Sehwag's natural game is attack whereas Dravid is bit defensive by nature.
If you ask Sehwag to defend he will certainly get out quickly bcoz it doesn't suit his style at all. For me a player should be a blend of Sehwag and Dravid. he should be able to play according to all situations, just like Ponting. He adjusts so quickly according to the situation. You can count Lara too in this category.

For bowlers too same thing applies. Like Parveen Kumar is good when bowl swings. he is hard to get away that time since he is good at swing bowling. But if you give him a flat pitch he will definitely struggle since his natural style is swing bowling which requires bowlers to pitch the bowl up. He will try to bowl line and length deliveries but won't succeed 4 out of 6 times.
The style of batting and bowling comes naturally. Its pure talent. It will take years if you want to change it.

So a player's natural game is what he loves to bat like or bowl like no matter what the conditions are!!

[sjakhars]

I am reproduing my post with Akshay Malik's Quotes here. Its been long known that Dhoni has lost his touch.

http://www.jatland.com/forums/showpo...2&postcount=42

"This is what I wanted to say in my earlier post " Dhoni playing safe.."
He is just playing for himself. His batting style has changed completely after he got captaincy.
I think there was no preparation and/or planning for T20 WC from captain's side this time. He was unsure what to do, even he was unsure of playing eleven since the tournament started. He must have played with RP Singh in all matches as he was the top wicket taker in IPL. Jadeja was a wrong choice again in a "do or die" match. Ojha would have been incuded. Pathan was given several chances before and RP was included in this match only. He shoudl have choosen his playing eleven clear from day one.

On the other note, I agree with Jitendra Hooda that I have lost interest in Cricket after that fixing episode. I used to feel very bad whenever India lost but not any more.


Quote:
Originally Posted by akshaymalik84
Jakhar ji,

Dhoni is playing mind games here....whenever there is an opening partenership of around 50-60 runs,he bring himself at no.3...just to show that he can control the team innings.
And whenever 1or 2 wickets goes down early...he stays in the bill to bat at no.5 or 6...to show that he is giving youngsters a chance.....he simply does not want to take blame on himself.

He is in this team for his capatincy and fearless batting(havn,t seen for long time).But in this world cup he failed on all fronts. He lacks tactical knoweledge and does not have good technique to handle fast bowling. Dinesh kartik is a much better WK keeper and batsman than him.....

I am not sure how much part Gary kirsten has played in this poor performance of Indian CRICKET team."

Earlier CT format used to be knock-out.. u lose one match, u are out of championship that day itself.. No??

i like that format better!!
Team who win all of its matches is a true champion team. Teams reaching SF/ QF by permutations & combinations should not be called a winner or champion.
Indian team was not good enough and deservingly crashed out of the CT.
Reg Capt: Dhoni's aura is wanning (for sure) and so is his luck and batting. Dhoni has changed his batting style quite a lot, seeing him bat is a pain..
Lets face it: he doesn't have a good technique.. In last 2 years or so, he is managing to score some runs but big shots (he was known for) are gone.. he defends awkwardly... can NOT accelerates the run rate (in recent times) and so on!! but he is/was managing to score 30-40 runs somehow and team as a whole was doing good.. so nobody actually noticed the 'decline' in his batting (in fact many claimed it is 'adaptation' as per teams' need).

Now some key players are missing (injured), team is not doing good... everything about Dhoni looks vulnerable... Big innings are long due from the skipper.. If his 'rough phase' runs longer coupled with some injury, we might see a new caption !!

Sehwag has already expressed his 'no interest' in Indian captaincy (though after some time he declined this 'no interest' statement); only Yuvraj and Gambhir are other contenders for the post!! Lets see what happens next!!