Jat- the term origins, history, etymology etc

[drssrana2003]

Bhat Bharna/Dena

Singhran ji and Urmilaji,
Apart from the sepcific caste identity the word Jat is used in the collective sense of rural identity of people in the north and north west of India even in our own times.If we go back in time we would notice that the term Jat was used for all people of the region.The word is of non Sanskritic origins, not withstanding the claims of several caste patirots trying their hand at history.A short discussion on the topic is available in posts relating to jats in the Epics and some other places.

[dndeswal]

Bhat Bharna/Dena

Singhran ji and Urmilaji,
Apart from the sepcific caste identity the word Jat is used in the collective sense of rural identity of people in the north and north west of India even in our own times.If we go back in time we would notice that the term Jat was used for all people of the region.The word is of non Sanskritic origins, not withstanding the claims of several caste patirots trying their hand at history.A short discussion on the topic is available in posts relating to jats in the Epics and some other places.

Dear Rana ji, In this context, Laxman Burdak's post in thread
Definition of being JAT makes an interesting reading. According to it, word 'Jat' is a Prakrit word, a derivated form (अपभ्रंश रूप) of original word 'ज्ञात'.

.

[ravichaudhary]

Origin of the term :JAT”.

This topic has been discussed a number of times, but more or less in a scattered way.

Lunman Burdak ji has summarized in an earlier post,in 2006 , some theories of how the term arose. – His post is reproduced below. It is a good starting point. We are thankful to him.

Dr Sube S Rana, whom we all respect and honour, has recently joined the group. He is a historian and has a Phd in Sanskrit. We are fortunate to have him with us.

He is currently visiting the US, for a couple of months, and we hope a get together can be held, before he returns to the Surajmal Society in Delhi.

Rana Sahib, has his views on this topic, and it will be helpful to all if the discussion is in one thread.

I have accordingly opened a new thread.

Ravi Chaudhary


Luxmanji's post
________________________________________
""Jats are the earliest kshatriyas. The mention of Jat word by the famous Sanskrit scholar Panini of 900 BCE in his Sanskrit grammar known as Ashtādhyāyī in the form of shloka as जट झट संघाते or “Jat Jhat Sanghate”. Which means the terms 'Jat' and 'democratic federation' are synonymous. It proves that the Jats are the most ancient people.

Jats in Shiva Stotra

Shiva Stotra is another most ancient epic, which mentions one thousand names of Lord Shiva, also mentioned in ‘Shalya Parva’ of Mahabharata, in which one of the names of god is ‘Jat’ and appears at serial number 489. Mahabharata Anushasan Parva chapter 17 shloka 89 reads as under:

महानखो, महारोमा, महाकोशो, महाजट: Mahānakho, Mahāromā, Mahākosho, Mahājata

प्रसन्नश्च, प्रसादश्च, प्रत्यो, गिरिसाधन: Prasannasha, Prasādasha, Pratyo, Girisādhana

Meaning - Mahanakha, Maharoma, Mahakosha, Mahajata, Prasanna, Prasada, Pratyaya, Girisadhana are the names of Lord Ishvara.

How old is Jat

According to an ancient story Brahma appointed Kartikeya as the commander of all the beings. Kartikeya got various gifts out of which there was a lord of all commanders named ‘Jat’. (Mahabharata Shalya Parva chapter 44 and 45). The shloka reads as under:

अक्ष: सन्तर्जनो राजन् कुन्दीकश्च तमोन्नकृत । Akshah santarjano rājana kundīkashcha tamonnakrita

एकाक्षो द्वादशक्षश्च तथैवैक जट: प्रभु ।। ५८ ।। Ekaksho dvadashkshashcha tathaivaika jatah prabhu

Meaning – Aksha, Santarjana, Kundika, Tamonnakrata, Ekaksha, dvadasha, and a ‘Jat’ lord of all (O Rajana ! gifted to swami Kartikeya)

It is believed in Hindu mythology that Brahma was the creator of the universe. As per Hindu cosmology the period of creation of the universe by Brahma was 1,97,29,49,108 years back in samvat 2063 (2006). It means the word ‘Jat’ is as old as the universe. [1]

Jats in Rigveda

Jats find a mention in most ancient Indian literature. Over sixty clans are named in the Rig Veda.[2] In the Mahabharata as they are mentioned ‘Jartas’ in ‘Karna Parva’. The famous Sanskrit scholar Panini]] of 900 BCE has mentioned in his Sanskrit grammar known as Ashtyāyī in the form of shloka as जट झट संघाते or “Jat Jhat Sanghate”. This means that the terms 'Jat' and 'democratic federation' are synonymous. He has mentioned many Jat clans as settled in Punjab and North west areas.

Jats in Grammar of Chandra

Jats are mentioned in the grammar treatise of Chandra of the fifth century in the phrase sentence अजय जर्टो हुणान or “Ajay Jarto Hunān, which refers to the defeat of Huns by the Jats under the leadership of Yasodharman. The inscription of Mandsaur also indicates that Yasodharman, the ruler of Malwa, was a Jat of the Virk gotra ( clan). [3]

Jats in the Deva Samhitā

There is mention of Jats in “Deva Samhitā” [4] in the form of powerful rulers over vast plains of Central Asia. For example in the 'Deva Samhitā' of Gorakh Sinha from the early medieval period, when Pārvatī asks Shiva about characters of Jats, Shiva tells her like this in sanskrit shloka-15 as under:

महाबला महावीर्या, महासत्य पराक्रमाः Mahābalā mahāvīryā, Mahāsatya parākramāh

सर्वाग्रे क्षत्रिया जट्टा देवकल्पा दृढ़-व्रता: Sarvāgre kshatriyā jattā Devkalpā dridh-vratāh

Meaning - 'They are, like gods, firm of determination and of all the Warriors, the Jats are the prime rulers of the earth.'

Shiva explains Parvati about the origin of Jats in Shloka –16 of Deva samhita:

श्रृष्टेरादौ महामाये वीर भद्रस्य शक्तित: hrishterādau mahāmāye Virabhadrasya shaktitah

कन्यानां दक्षस्य गर्भे जाता जट्टा महेश्वरी Kanyānām Dakshasya garbhe jātā jatta maheshwarī.

Meaning – 'In the beginning of the universe with the personification of the illusionary powers of Virabhadra and Daksha’s daughtergana's womb originated the caste of Jats'.

In the shloka-17 of 'Deva Samhitā' when Pārvatī asks about the origin of Jats, Shiva tells Parvati that:

गर्व खर्चोत्र विग्राणां देवानां च महेश्वरी Garva kharchotra vigrānam devānām cha maheshwarī

विचित्रं विस्मयं सत्वं पौराण कै साङ्गीपितं Vichitram vismayam satvam Pauran kai sāngīpitam

Meaning - 'The history of origin of Jats is extremely wonderful and their antiquity glorious. The Pundits of history did not record their annals lest it should injure and impair their false pride and of the vipras and gods. We describe that realistic history before you'.

Etymology of the word "Jat"

The most acceptable theory about the origin of the word, 'Jat' is that it has originated from the Sanskrit language word “Gyat” . The Mahabharata mentions in chapter 25, shloka 26 that Lord Krishna founded a federation ‘Gana-sangha’ of the Andhak and Vrishni clans. This federation was known as ‘Gyati-sangh’. Every member of this sangha was called Gyat.
over a period of time due to linguistic variaions it became Jat. [5]

The other prominent theory of the word's origins is that Jat came from the word Gaut tribal name of some Indo-Aryan tribes of Central Asia (such as those which later became Gauts/Goths and settled in Europe), which was written in 'Jattan Da Ithihas'. It has also been mentioned by Bhim Singh Dahiya. [6]

According to the historian 'Ram Lal Hala' the word Jat is drived from word 'Yat'. There was a king named 'Yat' in Chandra Vanshi clan who was ancestor of Lord Krishna. The Jats are descendants of King Yat. 'Yat' later changed to 'Jat'.[7]

Need to search epics

Since the word Jat existed from the beginning of the universe it must find place in various Indian epics. The main Indian epics worth mentioning are as follows: Vedas (Rigveda, Yjurveda, Samaveda, Athavaveda), Samhitas, Brahmanas, Aranyakas, Upanishadas, Vedanga (Shiksha, Chandas, Vyakarnas, Nirukta, Jyotisha, Kalpa), Mahabharata, Ramayana, Purana, Smriti, Bhagvadgita, Panchatantra, Kumar Vyasa Bharata, Stotra, Ramacharitamanas.

I searched some of the Indian and Hindu epics and produced as above some examples about the antiquity existence of word Jat and the history of Jats. It will be of great help to find more literature and linkages with the Jat history. In addition to the Hindu literature and epics the Buddhist and Jain books also have a great treasure about Jat history, not explored so far. Thus there is a need to research these sacred epics if we have to reconstruct the true Jat history.

References

1. Dr Mahendra Singh Arya, Dharmpal Singh Dudu, Kishan Singh Faujdar & Vijendra Singh Narwar, Adhunik Jat Itihasa, Agra 1998
2. Bhim Singh Dahiya, Aryan Tribes and the Rig Veda, Dahinam Publishers, 16 B Sujan Singh Park, Sonepat, Haryana,India,1991
3. CV Vaidya, History of Medieval Hindu India
4. Thakur Deshraj, Jat Itihas (Hindi), Maharaja Suraj Mal Smarak Shiksha Sansthan, Delhi, 1934, 2nd edition 1992 page 87-88.
5. Dr Natthan Singh, Jat-Itihas, (Jat History), page-41:Jat Samaj Kalyan Parishad, F-13, Dr Rajendra Prasad Colony, Tansen marg, Gwalior, M.P, India 474 002 2004
6. Bhim Singh Dahiya, Jats the Ancient Rulers, Dahinam Publishers, Sonepat, Haryana
7. Ram Lal Hala, Jat Kshatriya Itihas
__________________
Laxman Burdak

[drssrana2003]

The term JAT

Ravi Ji,
As far as Paninian connection with the term jATA is concerned i have comprehensively posted on LAXMAN ji's old thread -jats in the Epics.....If you could shift all that here it will help.
Laxman ji must have gone through the same. Any post here must respond to that.For a focussed discussion we need to take cognigance of what has been already put forward as an argument with cogent evidence and linguistic accuracy.Even a rudimentary eading of the faciful Sanskrit texts will reveal the real nature and purpose of these texts.it will be doing injustice with the study of Jat history to be lured by such texts and get started talking of jat history.The very premises to seek the Sanskritic connection of the term jat (simply because the people whom we call jats today are an ancient community(there should be no doubt about that)is not, in my opinion, a sound one.It may be made clear here that our clan names, in spite of the passage of milleniums, have survived, though not quite intact in original Sanskrit form.So we must always make a distinction between the clan names( an essential element of kinship connection and identity) and the so calledcaste label, which the term jat serves today.The romantics like Hala,Deshraj Thakur, Hukam Singh punwar, Bhim Singh Dahiya have, indeed, gone overboard in their zeal to necessarily fix some Sanskritic connection of a later day coined label for the most ancient community.can there be any thing more laughable than to even think of human race taking birth from locks of hair, no matter of Shiva.And let us not persist in refering to Panini when his rules do not permit what is sought to be propounded.

[narenderkharb]

Ravi ji

What is your openion on origin, history and etymology of term Jat ???.

[sunillathwal]

Why is everyone so obsessed with our caste here.

Then with 'which' caste everyone should be obsessed here??

[drssrana2003]

Discussion on the term Jat

There is no fanaticism in knowing yourself. It is only when you condemn others that fanaticism starts. Unless you know your own self better you can not understand others. Life is all about 'I' and 'thou'. It is better to critically examine and listen to more ideas before coming to a conclusion.As regards the discussion on the term 'Jat' is concerned there is all the more need to have an informed discussion as for quite some time lot of fallacies are prevailing among our people. Athorough discussion could clear the air.

[lrburdak]

Our members advise to do so many things here. I give one example:

Jats have been ignored not only by Indian historians but also by Indian Dictionaries. For example I tried to search Maruti’s Mega Dictionary(Hindi-english), compiled and edited by Abid Rizvi, Published by Marui Prakashan, 33 ,Harinagar, Meerut. One does not find the word jat in this Dictionary. Meerut is a place surrounded by dense population of jats. It is not possible that the author does not undrstand what jat is. On the other hand you find all other caste words defined such as Brahman, Rajput, Baniya, vaishya, Kumhar,Chamar, Mali etc.

What does this show?

If we search this dictionary after say hundreds of years one will say Jats did not exist in India in 20th century.

Who will record it.

Who will get recorded or corrected in Govt records or sites?

Who will correct this bias ?

[drssrana2003]

The term Jat

Any number of threads-may be 100,000-knowledge can't be sewed into ready made packets.It entails further journey from where we reach. Shankaracharya had declared- jnanam anntam brahma. Except atom nothing in this universe is unchangeable.How can we jats sit back knowing full well that thee has been, for milleniums, a casual and not so well informed reaction to the use of the term jat and an eqally less researched study of the term and of the people for whom it is being used since centuries, mostly in a pejorative sense.The general approach on the part of writers, mostly amateurs, has been to attempt proving the antiquity of the tem-the favourite,though faulty shelter esortd to being Panini and Yaska, apart from the laboued stretching of meanings of the Sanskrit texts in the Ramayana and the Mahabharata, not to mention the forged and funy texts in the Puranas.let us discuss hisorical matters in a scientific manner.

[mhundpuriamann]

Origin of the term :JAT”.

This topic has been discussed a number of times, but more or less in a scattered way.

Lunman Burdak ji has summarized in an earlier post,in 2006 , some theories of how the term arose. – His post is reproduced below. It is a good starting point. We are thankful to him.

.

Rana Sahib, has his views on this topic, and it will be helpful to all if the discussion is in one thread.

I have accordingly opened a new thread.

Ravi Chaudhary


Luxmanji's post
________________________________________



गर्व खर्चोत्र विग्राणां देवानां च महेश्वरी Garva kharchotra vigrānam devānām cha maheshwarī

7. Ram Lal Hala, Jat Kshatriya Itihas
__________________
Laxman Burdak

I respect for all your knowledge and people like you are our asset (indeed) , but may i ask u a innocent question ?

is it this word "jat" is important or "we" are important , let me try to explain , suppose all jats change their cast name from "jat " to "chamar" then off course this "chamar" word will get same respect in society as now a days "jat" gets . Isn't it so simple.

[ravichaudhary]

I respect for all your knowledge and people like you are our asset (indeed) , but may i ask u a innocent question ?

is it this word "jat" is important or "we" are important , let me try to explain , suppose all jats change their cast name from "jat " to "chamar" then off course this "chamar" word will get same respect in society as now a days "jat" gets . Isn't it so simple.

It is a fair question.

Be as it may, the term " Jat" is used to identify the community called Jats.

It is nomenclature, a name given to the community.

Other communities use different names/nomenclatures.

To enquire in to the history and evolution of the term is a natural desire.We cannot avoud such a desire even if we tried.

What we can do is to explore the term, in a rational , civil manner.


Ravi Chaudhary

[ravichaudhary]

Ravi ji

What is your openion on origin, history and etymology of term Jat ???.

My views are still in the formative stage. There is much research to be done.


Ravi

[drssrana2003]

Jats ignored by historians

Laxman ji,
In today's context a dictionery ignoring a word like 'Jat', while noticing othe caste names is something unusual.But one should think it is not deliberate and with a purpose in mind.
But I think we must deal with the dichotomy in our own understanding. On the one hand w, by and large complain that the historians (to be more specific, the Brahmins) are responsible for blacking out the Jats from history and literature for malafide reasons, and on the other we go on relentlesly pointing out how the Jats are found mentioned in almost every ancient work in Sanskrit and Prakrit work.Some of us are so overpowered by this hunt of the self that no boundaries of context of time, ethnic traces,linguistic principles of derivation are of litle consideration.On such occasios we appear to be playing to the galleries.Such stuff does no good either to the community or to the discipline of history.
I must also submit here that once a counte argument has been positioned by any one to a point earliear made by another friend, the same old posiion should be repeatedly carried forward unles reiterated with addd evidence after rebutting the counte argment.Otherwise discourse would be reduced to a monologue. My appeal to all would be to remain focuss.

[ravichaudhary]

Luxmanji is not entirely off base, when he points out that the editor of a dictionary printed in Meerut omits the term ' Jat.'

Was it done deliberately ?

It could well have been done deliberately.

Why should one be so ready to find an excuse for the ommission ?

Indian historians, quite recently ignored any references to Jats, the Sarv Khap of Haryana, Shoron etc.

Are we expected to believe that Irfan Habib, His father, and the other" eminent historians' located at Delhi and Aligarh had no knowledge of Jats or the Sarv Khap?

If this can happen in our own times, before our eyes, then why can the term Jat and the History of the Jats not be ignored/deleted , by the so called Historians( irrespective of the caste/community/religion they belong too.) , in times further in the past ?



Ravi Chaudhary

[lrburdak]

There is a need to protect the interests of Jat and Jat clans. We may discuss anything here but more important is that we should create references or write our history without delaying. I give examples from Wikipedia a very popular source of information.

In 2005 I created article on Kak gotra on Wikipedia. A notice was put to delete Kak artcle because Kak is a virus in computer technology. Thanks to R S Joon's book that I could save this article. See at:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Kak_(Gotra)

My comment was :

"Kak as a gotra of Jats has been described by the Indian Historian RS Joon in his book "History of the Jats, Rohtak, India (1938, 1967)". As such there is no justification of deletion of this article. burdak 02:34, 20 December 2005 (UTC)."

Now let us not comment about R S Joon's history book but it served a great purpose.

Jat article on Wikipedia is always under severe attack. Raviji knows it because he always came to rescue on my request.

Similar was with many other Jat clans on Wikipedia. Recent example is about Budania article. Thanks to Raviji and Dr Brij from Jat history that we could save this article from deletion.

Wikipedia is in all languages. In hindi you can see it here:

http://hi.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E0%A4%...A4%BE%E0%A4%9F

I could not see this article in hindi on Wikipedia for long and one day accidently I could see this hindi article on Jat. One fellow had deleted its entire content and posted this information about jat :

"जाट लोँगोँ की विदेशोँ मेँ दाई-नौकर,सफाई कर्मचारी आदि के रूप मेँ बहुत माँग रहती है।बहुत से जाट विदेश गए और छोटा मोटा काम धँधा कर अच्धी कमाई की।20 वीँ सदी के जाट लोग अपने को अलग जाति के रूप मेँ दिखलाने की कोशिश करते हैँ ताकि समाज मेँ उनका कद बढ़ सके।कुछ जाट लोग अपनी ईच्जत बढाने के लिए सिख भी बन जाते हैँ या होनेँ का दावा करते हैँ।जाट मजदूरोँ तथा किसानोँ के लिए उपलोग होने वाला शब्द है ना कि अलग जाति या धर्म क्योँकि जाट लोँगोँ का कोई अलग इतिहास नहीँ है।"

This thing can be known from history page of that article. Let us not question about the antiquity of the Jat word but question is of survival.

This content was deleted by me on 19 October 2009 and restored the original content.

As far my experience of working on internet is concerned we could save our honour of the community only because of Kanungo, Thakur Deshraj, B S Dahiya, R S Joon, Captain Ahlawat, Dharmpal Dudi who wrote about our history.

Let us not comment on the quality of stuff in these books till we have a perfect modern history. By the time we have a perfect history we will be deleted from all internet sites also as is the case of deleting from dictionaries and past history and Wikipedia right now.

regards,

[Ambijat]

Referring to Rana, Burdak, Chaudhary et al.

The discussion generates enough interest in looking the dual nature of the crisis. At the one hand there is need to relocate the past from what is actually felt ie, the real state of existence. And, on the other hand there is quest for contemporary structures of identity that suits to the changes in the modern world of today. The tragedy is that of history. These are no different but time and again the oft repeat challenges before society and even nations. For eg, Pakistan is also the similar case, but they have actually buried the past for good to survive the contemporary times.

Some sociological observations about Jat are as follows:

1) Jat is also used as ethnic identity label in Pakistan and Afghanistan, and this is different from the Muslim converts who are Jats. Most of these Jats are actually nomads or equivalent to vagabond castes of India such as nat, bazigar, bhand and other entertaining classes or to say so the Kuchi Jats of Afghanistan who are equivalent to Banjaras. So, to limit the explorations of the term Jats not only needs the temporal bindings but also geographical limits to stretching an argument.

2) Iranians had been using the term Jat for different purposes but they for much part of the history treated them at par with the Baloch farmers.

3) The clans of Haryana and western UP have a unique social structure which actually narrows the definition of Jat rather than broadening it. So, care must be taken before putting an argument for the larger extended community of Jats.

4) Some how archaeological evidences are brutally ignored in terms of reclaiming history. The fact that temples and oldest structures are present since Budhhist period, we have not tried to show the historic changes that this community has undergone through out this period. When, Hazaras of Hazarajat, Afghanistan are known to have converted to Islam from Buddhism, what was the status of Jats during this period. Were the Jats Budhhist at the same period? Such inter-community reference points are needed to provide stronger evidence for whatever the case may be.

Thanks!
Regards.
Ambrish

[drssrana2003]

I thought we were discussing history. But I get the impression that history is taken to mean what has hitherto been writen by some who have thee job cut out firt and then intrpet any material to suit that end. When one is told to take the same as real history till a beter work has been produced and that we ae in danger for the reason of the existing ritings being in danger of deletion from te Wikipaedia. Strange premises for contiuing discussions! If we fall prey to sentimentalism,the matter of discourse ends.History is not synonimous with large volumes of bound papers. It resides in positioning of geneally accepted facts ,verifiable from authentic sources. I have not yet encountered any endorsement or rebuttal in the Forum posts of what I have been submitting as authentic and source material in support of my arguments against the hitherto held position( on various topics-be it he reference in Panini to the tem 'jATa'or the issue of 'Virk' identity of Aulikara Yashodharman or his identity with Vishnuvardhana of the Bijayagarh inscription. Ioffence is aken hen one disagrees with B.S. Dahiya on matters of gross misintepretation of,especially Sanskrit texts, it becomes difficult to continue the discourse (for contributing to the making of an ideal history of the Jats). In such circumstances the only (sensible)course appears to be to go on a long sabbatical from the Forum and watch from the sidelines and occasionally clap to register one's presence

[ravinderjeet]

[QUOTE=lrburdak;231518]Our members advise to do so many things here. I give one example:
laxmanji,ravi ji aap dono se gujarish hey ki hawaa singh sangwan ki likhi hui kitaab-looterye kuon?-agar naa padhi ho to jaroor padhein.
merey hisaab se uss kitaab mey 99% sab sahi likhaa huaa hey.

[drssrana2003]

Dear Rana ji, In this context, Laxman Burdak's post in thread
Definition of being JAT makes an interesting reading. According to it, word 'Jat' is a Prakrit word, a derivated form (अपभ्रंश रूप) of original word 'ज्ञात'.

.

Deswal Saheb,

If you ask me I would think that the tem Jat as, we understand it today, is of non-Indic origin and has nothing to do with Prakrit or Sanskrit.What Burdak ji says appears to be a reproduction of what some Jat writers have earlier said. The jnaata theory comes from Thakur Deshraj, who talks first of a jnaati sangha formed by Shri Krishna.From jnaati he traces the development into jna,ata(soft 't') andsubsequently into jaata(with hard 't') without citing any examples of this transition. We know that Panini has defined 'jnaati' as maatri-pitri-sambandhino jnaati i.e. the relatives from the side of mother and father are called jnaati.Iwoul be unfair to stretch the tem to give the meaning of a caste group which is far larger and diverse parentage without any auhentic basis.
The ,Prakrit conection' is a favourite theme of B.S. Dahiya who erroneously holds Prakrit older than Sanskrit against its well accepted posteriority to the latter.

[ravichaudhary]

Luxmanji



First, let me thank you on half of the whole community for the stalwart and dedicated effort you have made over the years in collecting the jat related historical material, collating it, and putting it up on this site and Wikipedia.

It was a herculean task, and cannot be praised enough.

I also appreciate that it is difficult to both publish the material ,do research , and come up with valid interpretations, simultaneously,

There is no need to mix the issues of an internet encyclopedia, with research.

Both have to stand independently.

One cannot thus sacrifice quality simply to see the work included in Wikipedia or other forums or media.

Sites like Wikipedia , are a free for all, which is both a good and a bad thing. Its bias towards accepting only ‘previously published material’ means many outdated ideas from colonial times keep getting extensions on their lives. We will continue to deal with that.

Are we now at a stage that we can start to focus on correcting the material ,you/ we have put up?

One would think - yes.


At the same time, we need to keep on investigating our past, and keep coming up with more research using the data that has been thrown up, and interpreting that data with the information that has been gathered so far.

We need to go to primary research, and beyond depending upon simply quoting other writers, who so ever they may be.


We need to establish a structure for the study of our history, and we are on our way to doing that.

Ravi Chaudhary