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Thread: Constitution or No Constitution?

  1. #1
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    Constitution or No Constitution?

    I remember going through the Indian Constitution book and as my habbit , I still have a few important things marked in my head.
    The fundamental rights section saaid this:
    ================================================== ====
    Equality before law: Article 14 of the constitution guarantees that all citizens shall be equally protected by the laws of the country. It means that the State cannot discriminate against a citizen on the basis of caste, creed, colour, sex, religion or place of birth.
    ================================================== =====

    We have seen threads of reservation going pages after pages making a mockery of the above and while reading the Haryana govt. formation posts on another thread in the same section , I was disturbed to the core because the newspaper link given there reported that the ministries be distributed on the basis of representation of certain areas and certain castes. While one can argue that it is in a sense implementation of above because you are representing equally but to me it is not.
    Positions of responsibility ( and what more responsiblity can be there than the ministers themselves who have the maximum leverage , power , resources to do good for the people at large) should be chosen on the basis of skill set , attributes , qualities and qualifications not by caste and area. By simple calcualtions there can be 14 ministers and if 10 Jats are the most capable leaders then why not 10 jats as ministers?
    If 10 MLAs from Rohtak are the most capable then why not those 10?


    My questions are:
    1) Does this strategy implies explicitly that the people in power are inherently biased towards their own communities/areas so they in essence practise against the law of equality?

    2) A national party ( and this goes against all , not the congress alone ) which basis its principles on the great constitution and blah blah practices discrimination? And choses wrong people for the wrong job?

    3) What about the loss that happens to the people by this policy? What if a very able economist who can run finance ministry with great ideas and for common good does not get in the "mantrimandal"
    becasue of these discriminatory policies?

    4) So much so for the cutting the cake , why dont they cut the same cake based on the age profiles? Why do not we youngsters get some young ministers as well?

    It is indeed painful to see people not even noticing such things and then on 15th of August or on Repulic day holding their head high and saying they are nationalists. Please envision a common Indian and a common good rather than these divisionary policies and practises.


    Thank you,
    Anil

  2. #2

    We are responsible

    The present political system is having many drawback. But this is due to imitating the foreign constitution and then local exception. We are not having anything indigenous except bad practices. We copied western constitution,economic structure, taxation( we implement same things after they do) and so is social policies.

    There is no human touch in our government. They just win election, jugad democratic magic number and make govt to remain in power.

    Govt do not feel,react and do any thing on any of the national or international event.
    Who so ever can speak against us at International level. What ever any religious, cast and area based group can speak against nation.

    Very soon only Marwari and banias will be proud of being Indian. We are going to be ashamed of being a dud Indian.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by anilsinghd View Post
    I remember going through the Indian Constitution book and as my habbit , I still have a few important things marked in my head.
    The fundamental rights section saaid this:
    ================================================== ====
    Equality before law: Article 14 of the constitution guarantees that all citizens shall be equally protected by the laws of the country. It means that the State cannot discriminate against a citizen on the basis of caste, creed, colour, sex, religion or place of birth.
    ================================================== =====

    We have seen threads of reservation going pages after pages making a mockery of the above
    Anil, whatever you have written is logical. But the existing and ever continuing reservation that is supported by this constitution is itself un-constitutional. Isnt it?

    Now there are two ways to fight this 1) Constitutional 2) Merge with un-constitutional.
    People have tried by PLs the first and you yourself did a bit but no results even from judiciary. Then whats left?

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by jitendershooda View Post
    Anil, whatever you have written is logical. But the existing and ever continuing reservation that is supported by this constitution is itself un-constitutional. Isnt it?

    Now there are two ways to fight this 1) Constitutional 2) Merge with un-constitutional.
    People have tried by PLs the first and you yourself did a bit but no results even from judiciary. Then whats left?
    Jit Bhai , that was a metaphor that you picked up, I do not wish to discuss reservation on this thread , please go beyond that and let me know that do you want reservatuon in ministries on basis of religion , area , caste etc.

    Hope you would apprecaite that the extreme of that would be breaking India into 20 difft parts and then there would not be need of this divisive politics and culture?


    Is not the current system a blockage for the talent and good work to show for themselves?

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by anilsinghd View Post
    Jit Bhai , that was a metaphor that you picked up, I do not wish to discuss reservation on this thread , please go beyond that and let me know that do you want reservatuon in ministries on basis of religion , area , caste etc.

    Hope you would apprecaite that the extreme of that would be breaking India into 20 difft parts and then there would not be need of this divisive politics and culture?

    Is not the current system a blockage for the talent and good work to show for themselves?
    Brother, neither I picked that up the reservation for discussion, I first said that whatever you have written is logical. Second is the word that you are not fond of listening "ground reality". This constitution itself is molded by these politicians and now the situation is of fix. Na Nigalte banta hai aur na ugalte.

    Yes, the present system is blockage for the talent. It may improve by time but we cant expect it to happen at-once. This will happen when people will start thinking that a person of different caste with same economic condition is much closer to him than the other rich same caste guy. So the bondings of people should happen problem wise nor caste wise.

    This is the main reason why I am not much pleased with the upliftment of jats by INLD. Those are jats who get benefitted but I feel most of them were of not my category nor of a common simple man (without much muscle power or binding to law). But looking at the statements by Kuldeep Bisnoi against jats and polarisation of him and BSP on caste basis will also polarise me to INLD being closer to me. So in present situation nobody can be fully shielded to these things rather he can improve upon bit by bit.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by anilsinghd View Post
    I remember going through the Indian Constitution book and as my habbit , I still have a few important things marked in my head.
    The fundamental rights section saaid this:
    ================================================== ====
    Equality before law: Article 14 of the constitution guarantees that all citizens shall be equally protected by the laws of the country. It means that the State cannot discriminate against a citizen on the basis of caste, creed, colour, sex, religion or place of birth.
    ================================================== =====

    We have seen threads of reservation going pages after pages making a mockery of the above and while reading the Haryana govt. formation posts on another thread in the same section , I was disturbed to the core because the newspaper link given there reported that the ministries be distributed on the basis of representation of certain areas and certain castes. While one can argue that it is in a sense implementation of above because you are representing equally but to me it is not.
    Positions of responsibility ( and what more responsiblity can be there than the ministers themselves who have the maximum leverage , power , resources to do good for the people at large) should be chosen on the basis of skill set , attributes , qualities and qualifications not by caste and area. By simple calcualtions there can be 14 ministers and if 10 Jats are the most capable leaders then why not 10 jats as ministers?
    If 10 MLAs from Rohtak are the most capable then why not those 10?


    My questions are:
    1) Does this strategy implies explicitly that the people in power are inherently biased towards their own communities/areas so they in essence practise against the law of equality?

    2) A national party ( and this goes against all , not the congress alone ) which basis its principles on the great constitution and blah blah practices discrimination? And choses wrong people for the wrong job?

    3) What about the loss that happens to the people by this policy? What if a very able economist who can run finance ministry with great ideas and for common good does not get in the "mantrimandal"
    becasue of these discriminatory policies?

    4) So much so for the cutting the cake , why dont they cut the same cake based on the age profiles? Why do not we youngsters get some young ministers as well?

    It is indeed painful to see people not even noticing such things and then on 15th of August or on Repulic day holding their head high and saying they are nationalists. Please envision a common Indian and a common good rather than these divisionary policies and practises.


    Thank you,
    Anil
    Dear Anil, your observation is correct & I can understand your pain, but dear nothing much can be done unless thinking of people & their phylosophy of life change. As I always believe & said that India is ruled by five ministers & one PM - Religionism, Casteism, Areaism, Favouritism & Goondaism headed by the selfishness.. CONSTITUTION, RULE, REGULATIONS,PRINCIPLES, MORALES, etc are applicable to only middle class,the people in power/the ruling class doesnot bother for constitution, they only remember it when the same is utelised for their benifit. There is no place for efficiancy/capability/marit etc, otherwise these very politiciacs, atlist most of them, may not be there where they have reached.
    Some people like you do notice such things happening but brother majority of us are effected by the six above mentioned members of the ruling cabnet, thus nothing can be done. A revolution is required but for that, we have to wait little more.
    Last edited by Fateh; November 10th, 2009 at 10:38 PM.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by anilsinghd View Post
    I remember going through the Indian Constitution book and as my habbit , I still have a few important things marked in my head.
    The fundamental rights section saaid this:
    ================================================== ====
    Equality before law: Article 14 of the constitution guarantees that all citizens shall be equally protected by the laws of the country. It means that the State cannot discriminate against a citizen on the basis of caste, creed, colour, sex, religion or place of birth.
    ================================================== =====

    We have seen threads of reservation going pages after pages making a mockery of the above and while reading the Haryana govt. formation posts on another thread in the same section , I was disturbed to the core because the newspaper link given there reported that the ministries be distributed on the basis of representation of certain areas and certain castes. While one can argue that it is in a sense implementation of above because you are representing equally but to me it is not.
    Positions of responsibility ( and what more responsiblity can be there than the ministers themselves who have the maximum leverage , power , resources to do good for the people at large) should be chosen on the basis of skill set , attributes , qualities and qualifications not by caste and area. By simple calcualtions there can be 14 ministers and if 10 Jats are the most capable leaders then why not 10 jats as ministers?
    If 10 MLAs from Rohtak are the most capable then why not those 10?


    My questions are:
    1) Does this strategy implies explicitly that the people in power are inherently biased towards their own communities/areas so they in essence practise against the law of equality?

    2) A national party ( and this goes against all , not the congress alone ) which basis its principles on the great constitution and blah blah practices discrimination? And choses wrong people for the wrong job?

    3) What about the loss that happens to the people by this policy? What if a very able economist who can run finance ministry with great ideas and for common good does not get in the "mantrimandal"
    becasue of these discriminatory policies?

    4) So much so for the cutting the cake , why dont they cut the same cake based on the age profiles? Why do not we youngsters get some young ministers as well?

    It is indeed painful to see people not even noticing such things and then on 15th of August or on Repulic day holding their head high and saying they are nationalists. Please envision a common Indian and a common good rather than these divisionary policies and practises.


    Thank you,
    Anil

    Agreed completely!!! Even some good persons in politics knows all these things. It's become part of system. You have to be in the system to change system.
    Somewhere we are also responsible for this. It's well known that what's the percentage of educated persons in voting....


    Still looking at election results in recent time both in states and center, elections issues are changing. Politicians and people are talking about development now.
    I strongly feels that it's a start......Things will change in India....people are more aware now as compare to past

  8. #8
    I have read in a book from Bill Emott, the former editor of The Economist,that countries like India and China could overtake United States in future..

    Here is the snippet of what he says, "If countries like China and India carries on pro-growth policies and manages their economy well, China could overtake the United States as the World's biggest economy as soon as the late 2020's. By 2050, India might also have overtaken the United States, if it pursues vigorous economic reforms during the current decade and beyond. Neither China nor India will have average living standards anywhere near as high as those in America or Western Europe."

    Forget about China..Indian democracy is such a fragile that anyone from outside the country or Inside the country can modulate it accordingly for personal benefits ...Questions raised above applies to every state of our country...If nothing has been done then forget about 2050, we could not catch US by 2090..

  9. #9
    Anil,

    All though the constitution provides Equality before Law but in reality is it happens? Even constitution itself in Artical 15 & 16 provide for the provision of reservation but that reseravtion is necessary for the upliftment of weaker section and social backward communities.

    Election in India whether it's Haryana,U.P or Bihar always fought on basis of cast even distribution of ticket is also done after due consideration of different-2 comunities.Intially election starts with some good issues but at last and till the election date commence it becames totally cast or community based, everyone forgot main issues.
    If a candidate who won election on the basis of castism then at the time of framing of Mantrimadal how the CM can forget that which community has voted for so n so candidate. To make minsters of that comunity just to great the people of that particular comunity and for agumentation of vote bank.

    some point raised by you -
    1 Yes it is right that the people in power are inherently biased towards their own communities/ area. as it is comman you can see most of CM always consider thier/his own constituecy while impliment any project etc.
    2 these are political parties who have had spread discrimination with the communities/societies/peoples whether it be national or local. Even formation of state District is also based on particular communities and area.
    3 who care for loss, this is the comman people who suffer, if a right person handle a right job than something can be achieved.
    4 they have to enhance their vote bank how it is possible which is not possible by distribution of ministry based on age, education etc.

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