Respect

[ac]

Respect is an act of showing regard, consideration or appreciation for someone.

In Indian culture, from the moment a child is born, he/she is taught how to show respect to people, through several ways such as actions like saying namaste while holding hands together and bowing the head and words such as adding 'ji' after the title used to address the person and 'aap'. Using the first name of the person only would be considered sacrilege. But are the children actually taught to respect and not just show respect? Do most of the adolescents, young adults, adults and elderly in Haryana really respect and not just show respect to people around them?

I included the adults and elderly because respect must be mutual. For example, an elderly man of 65 years should also respect the thoughts and opinions of his son/daughter-in-law who is 40 years old. This respect can be shown by listening and acknowledging their thoughts/ feelings without enforcing his own. At the same time, the 40 year old must also show respect to the elderly. Just because they may be weak physically or need help and support, they shouldn't be written off.

A key indication of disrespect is aggression and violence. Whether it is in speech or action. Indians usually are quick to anger, quick to take offence and very quick to react. Often, the more subtle signs are in behaviour towards servants, drivers, employees, relatives or general public. Other ways that are an accepted part of life are such as by picking on someone based on their physical characteristics. Disrespect can often lead people to participate from incidents such as eve-teasing to grave incidents such as robbery, kidnapping, murders.

One of the biggest differences I have noticed in Australian and English culture is really respecting people rather than just showing respect. In Australia/ England, people use first names without any pre/post salutation. There is little point of the latter if one doesn't mean it. If you even used the word 'fat' to describe someone, people would be horrified. You are expected to use kinder words such as 'big'. When looking for a relationship/ spouse, above all, people try and find partners with compatible personalities (not measurable physical characteristics). People never pick on anyone. Actions such as eve-teasing are considered forms of harassment. Slapping or punching someone can even get you arrested and is a punishable offence.

I am not saying their cultures are perfect but there are certain points that can be appreciated and we can attempt to include them in our culture. Instead of practicing 'showing respect', perhaps we can also ensure that we sincerely respect those around us and teach our offsprings to do the same, for they will be the adults of tomorrow.

What are your thoughts?

[rajivsp]

kindly do not compare East and West
there is big difference

Free advice (as Indians known for) to you
dont' forget you are from India (more specifically you are from JL).

[Dheeraj24]

Why shouldn't we compare ?

I don't see any difference as such , which blocks or attempts to , comparison.

People are hardworking there , people are hardworking here.
About structures ..big shig buildings..people there have started renouncing them.

Gaon ke khet main baith ke hi Kisan Newton ne Laws likhe the.

[rajivsp]

no big differences just cultural differences and respect very much depends on culture. In Americal Culture you can call your boss by name but not in European culture. Same in India. My comments was not on capabilities of human beings in that we all are same.

[dahiyarules]

kindly do not compare East and West
there is big difference

Your statement is self-contradictory. There are differences between east and west. That's why the original author is comparing the two.

Free advice (as Indians known for) to you
dont' forget you are from India (more specifically you are from JL).

Your ethnic identity does should not be allowed to rid you of your ability to compare your culture of origin with other cultures that you come across.

The author is making a valid point. However, I may not agree with her entirely. From what I have seen in India, there are instances of both behaviors, i.e. showing real respect and feigned respect to others. In western cultures, one can find a similar attitude, but respect in most cases in genuine.

[deepshi]

Just one thing that irks me here is somewhat lesser respect for parents and teachers/seniors..they treat them more like frnds,,whereas in India..aankho ki sharam hoti hai,they dont even have to mention or force..its natural.

Apart from that..I have observed the MOST IMPECCABLE manners here I ever came across with...m smitten with this place
Even the elderly and the senior gents at workplace would open the door for the lady,hold it,let her walk through ..and then follow....I used to be embarrased in the beginning..but thats their way of dealing!

The strangers walkin down the street smile at you,some even say hello...which may sound bit pervy and create suspicion in India lolz
And during the weekends/festivals,,even the most drunk/intimidating guy would be pretty harmless to women in particular.
people from afar may appear aloof/cold but once you have a question to ask/accidentally bump into them..they are so warm and engaging..humble,down to earth and self-conscious.

Donno bout other countries,but telling by my experiences here They dont discriminate according to status/looks/caste...they value u as a human...

People deemed them racists here but I reckon its reverse-racism...people here are too hard on themselves and self depreciating..always giving the other person more than a fair go!!

The only thing that is commendable is WHAT U SEE IS WHAT U GET... no place for pretentious/hypocrates/prudes here

So much to tell, but since we've been just discussing respect here,,

[rajivsp]

You are right Sumit. I have involved in wrong discussion. I mean I am absolutely wrong here in this discussion.

[Dheeraj24]

Why so?

What can be the solution?

Even a clerk in bank earning less than10k per month, speaks in too harsh tone even to an elderly guy.

[annch]

You mean it is ok for a Senior Bank Manager earning in lakhs or whatever to speak in harsh tone to an elder person?

Even a clerk in bank earning less than10k per month, speaks in too harsh tone even to an elderly guy.

[Dheeraj24]

Sometime(s) for an officer to maintain discipline , have to be harsh.

(Even to....clause depicts crossing of the last terrain)

..

[anilsinghd]

But are the children actually taught to respect and not just show respect?

I included the adults and elderly because respect must be mutual.

A key indication of disrespect is aggression and violence. Whether it is in speech or action.

Indians usually are quick to anger, quick to take offence and very quick to react. Often, the more subtle signs are in behaviour towards servants, drivers, employees, relatives or general public.

Other ways that are an accepted part of life are such as by picking on someone based on their physical characteristics.

One of the biggest differences I have noticed in Australian and English culture is really respecting people rather than just showing respect. In Australia/ England, people use first names without any pre/post salutation.

When looking for a relationship/ spouse, above all, people try and find partners with compatible personalities (not measurable physical characteristics).

I am not saying their cultures are perfect but there are certain points that can be appreciated and we can attempt to include them in our culture. Instead of practicing 'showing respect', perhaps we can also ensure that we sincerely respect those around us and teach our offsprings to do the same, for they will be the adults of tomorrow.

What are your thoughts?

A refreshing post indeed! Let me first congratulate you for a nice thought and nice words/ideas to substantiate yourself. And what made it complete for me was the lines in bold. I just finished reading on Tendulkar 20 years celebrations and watched a few videos ( contrary to general trend , my mondays are a bit relaxing as most of stuff is done on saturday's , so I could find some time for myself today!) on the legend and he himself acknowledged that there is always scope for improvement. No harm , infact a great opportunity to incorporate some good things of other cultures into our own.

I would not go into detail of what is the reality , perhaps everyone is aware of that and those who are not do not want to think on those lines. I would share something from my own life , I do not know why but it is very hard for me to bow down , touch feet of people and trust me it is no ego issue or similar , just that I do not feel like it. Even with my parents it gets a bit hard , and my mom scolds me a few times on this but she knows that I respect her in my own ways. I completely agree with you that the idea and notion behind respect would be to DO it than SHOW it. I do not have a lot of ideas on how to achieve that , perhaps talking a lot with kids on how do they feel and how should they feel ( a healthy two way interaction) can help.

Cannot agree more on the theme that respect has to be mutual. for anyone who is into Orkut ( I am perhaps too much into it!) , there is a Today's fortune part there and its a fixed set of lines which keep repeating themselves in some order , one of them goes like this : Each generation thinks they have better ideas than the previous and the next generation. Something similar I mean.
This also is a part of general phenomenon that there is inherent superiority complex in individuals these days. Such is the nature of stressed out life that we live that even survival gives a sense of false belief and understanding. With so many emotions involved in the various relationships that we involve ourselves in , we tend to think that we are masters of every thing. Probably we are not but still thats not so bad a assumption to relieve some stress.

I would also put on the "angre/agressivenes" of Indians on the atmosphere they live in. Its cut throat from day 1 and remains the same all the way. On the choice of partners , perhaps a debatable issue but what if I say that till the time the people in western world look to settled down they perhaps have tried a few number of partners and have internalised this fact that relationship is more about the person than the looks?

On the salutations part I found it tough to change ( remember when i just arrived i would put a Sir in front of my manager as he was like ~ 50 and his own 8 year old would call him Andy , slowly I picked that up!).

Interesting point on the mutual respect is that we must account for the cultural context, while in India you would have grandparents assuming a primary role in upbringing the kids and having a say in everything , emotional attachments and stuff as well. Try painting a picture of a 50 year old in West , he/she would spend time at gym , go for sports , and other funky stuff while in Indian context you will a see a person spending more time with the family.


sorry i got distracted ( some work came over , my own curse!) , I will continue later!

Thanks, Anil

[annch]

I agree with Sumit that instances of both, respect and dissrespect, can be found in all cultures. Respect or disrespect is not culture specific.

Being polite or having good manners/ etiquettes are also gestures of respect as are namaste, addressing someone with "ji", touching feet of our elders. What makes a gesture more genuine than the other?

Correlation between disrespect and crime, how strong is it? I guess it is more disrespect for the laws of the land than a person that leads to crime.

[QUOTE=aakankshac;231806]
Disrespect can often lead people to participate from incidents such as eve-teasing to grave incidents such as robbery, kidnapping, murders.[\QUOTE]

[sidchhikara]

You mean it is ok for a Senior Bank Manager earning in lakhs or whatever to speak in harsh tone to an elder person?

You mean it is ok for a Senior Bank Manager earning in lakhs or whatever to speak in harsh tone to a young:D person?

[annch]

As per the original answer to my query that you have quoted-
yes, it would be ok in order to maintain discipline.

You mean it is ok for a Senior Bank Manager earning in lakhs or whatever to speak in harsh tone to a young:D person?

[daivischahal]

akansha ji........apne haryana ke logon ke behaviour ka comaprison americans/australians ke sath kiya hai.....
apne comparison mein apne sirf 3 baatein likhi hai........
1.haryana me bachhon ko respect karna kaisa sikhaya jaata hai?
2.negative things from behaviour of haryanvi...
3.positive things from a foreigner behavoiur....

dont u think that we should compare +ve with +ve and then -ve with -ve....

haryana main zyadatar log gaanvo mein rahte hai.....and believe me 80% se zyada log apne bachho ko kabhi bhi kisi ko "ji" ya "aap" kahna nahi sikhate....bachho ko bas yahi bataya jaata hai ki ye tere CHACHA hai,ye TAYA hai,etc ,etc....
lekin bachhe fir bhi apne badon ki respect karte hai.....haan unki accent jarur rude hoti hai , joki har haryanvi ki hai.....lekin respect bilkul genuine hoti hai.....agar koi kisi ko like nahi karta to us-se sidhe muh baat hi nahi karta.....respect dena to dur ki baat hai.....

lekin jaise hi hum gaanvon se city me aate hai scenario ek dum change ho jaata hai.....yahan parents bachhon ko tab sikhana shuru kar dete hain jab unhone dhik se bolna bhi nahi sikha hota......wo bachhon ko "AAP" kahana to sikha dete hain par kisi ki respect karna nahi sikha paate.....kyonki respect karna sikhaya nahi jaata......hum usi ki respect karte hain jise hum like karte hain.....or is par to khud hamara bhi control nahi hota......ye jo sikhi hui respect hai ye most of the case me genuine nahi hoti......sirf dikhava hoti hai.....

aapne bilkul sahi kaha hai ki " respect must bhi mutual"
lekin aap hi bataayi haryana mei, jo ki ek PURUSH PRADHAN state hai, jahan parivaar ke saare faisale sirf ghar ka HEAD karta hai, wahan aisa kaise possible hai ki wo apne har decision me ghar ke har member se consult kare.....use head isiliye banaya jaata hai kyonki sab ko us par vishvas hota hai ki wo sabki bhalaai ka kaam hi karega......

or ab to ye trend bhi dhire-dhire khatam ho raha hai....is modernization ne joint family ko kai nuclear families me baant diya hai jahan sirf husband,wife or children hote hai.....

or mam rahi baat foriegn ki to mere pass comment karne ke liye kuch hai nahi kyonki kabhi america ya australia jaane ka moka nahi mila......lekin jitna doston se suna hai(who have visited foriegn )and from hollywood movies uske base par itna kah sakta hun ki jin foreigners ke behavour ki aap baat kar rahe ho wo wahan ke highly professional or educated log hain......unse itni to umid ki jaa sakti hai ki wo publicly achha behave karen.......or aisa bhi jaruri nahi ki wo respect genuine hi ho.......
lekin wahan ka jo aam aadmi hai uski bhasha bahut hi vulgar hai(its my personal experience from my NRI friends.....)
or jo aadmi sadak par apko smile de kar hello bol raha ho aapko kya pta uske andar kya chal raha hai.....may be s/he is thinking something wrong abt u.....
is dikhave ki respect se to haryana ki rudness hi achhi hai....
saame achhe-2 words use karna or baad mei kahna "BLOODY INDIAN" , is -se to kahin achha hai ki aap face par hi 2 gaali suna do......

or mam rahi marriages ki baat to likhna to mai is par bhibahut chahta hun par fir mujhe lagega ki main kisi essay competition me part le raha hun.....bas itna hi kahna chahunga ki indian marriages are much much successfull than foreign marriages....

akansha ji ye mera point of view hai.....agar kahi galti hui ho to mafi chahunga....

[ac]

Dear All,

I am delighted to hear the various thoughts you have expressed as well as points you have raised. I could have a written a 100 page thesis (for a thorough balanced analysis) on this but chose to expresses just a few thoughts as I wanted to initiate a discussion and leave room for everyone else to express themselves as well as share experiences they have had. For those who posted in reply, thank you for making your contribution.

Just because someone may be living/studying/working overseas that does not necessarily make them anti-Indian/ anti-Jat etc. It is essential to try and be as objective as possible and appreciate that different people may have different perspectives on a matter. Yes, I am not in India right now, but while I am overseas I am trying to learn as much as I can and be the best person I can be in terms of my professional skills, personality and values. I am not perfect and make my own mistakes too. But I try and improve on a daily basis. Isn't this what we all should try and be? (I will write another post on this next week). Additionally, my experiences are limited to Australia, UK and Germany. I welcome to hear about people's experiences in other countries/ thoughts from India which deviate away from what one may see/ hear through other channels (incl. movies)

Irrespective of which village/ state/ country/ continent one may be in, there will always be differences as well as similarities in cultures and people. It is difficult to generalise and perhaps not fair to generalise even, but the only way to make any form of statement on any matter can be done only with a form of 'generalisation'.

Regarding what makes a gesture more genuine? Indeed every culture has their own gestures, and I appreciate the ones we have in ours. In my previous post I meant that often the emphasis is merely on making the gesture rather than really appreciating what the value (in this case respect) is about.

Regarding the correlation between crime and respect/ disrespect. Again, a valid question. In my opinion, people indulge in crime when they lose their moral values and respect is a critical one. Legally, yes, crime would be defined as 'breaking the law'. However, all laws were formed for the sole reason of respecting people (a group of people, an individual, their property, their work or even more). I think every single law can be traced down to preserving a form of right of a human being. Losing respect may start off in a small inconsequential way, but it may balloon up to more grave incidents.

Regarding the aggressiveness among us Indians, I agree it is largely due to the daily struggle of survival - working and supporting those who depend on us. Competition is cut-throat and we must be on our toes daily to make sure we do not 'lose the race'. The aggressiveness is often supplemented with frustration and anger as well. However, it would be ideal if these were constrained to ensuring greater productivity rather than losing control (Again, easier said than done).

Regarding finding the right life partner. Indeed, in western countries people go through a few partners before settling down. The point I was trying to make was on choosing personality over physical characteristics. For example. The first level of elimination/ selection on Jatland Matrimonials seem to be age, height and weight. What if instead it offered personality descriptions: loves sports and outdoor activities/ appreciates literature and art. (Perhaps I should start a website based on this? :-) )

Often my posts mention 'teaching the kids' because 10-20 years later, they will be the young adults. The adults of today can make an attempt to practice ideas and thoughts they want to embody in themselves as well as they think their children should have to be good, productive human beings. I also emphasise on teaching kids because habits are formed and values are 'integrated in our soul' at a young age. Some of these will be unshakeable as the children grow up while others may mould/ deviate/ adapt based on experiences and changes in society/ environment. For me, values such as honesty, respect, integrity fall in the unshakeable category.

Regarding Haryana being a 'pursh pradhan' state. I am well aware of this custom and the point made is that the (male) head of the family makes the decision and it would be difficult to consult each and every person. If this was a company, the CEO would be the head. If the CEO made decisions without consulting/listening to his managers (who in turn made decisions without consulting/listening to the employees under them), that would be the end of the company. A good CEO is one who hears everyone out (via the chains in management) and exercises his/her judgement based on the information available. I think the (male/female) head of the family should do the same. Sure, it is difficult to make everyone happy but hopefully the 'right' and 'fair' decision could be made based on the information (views, thoughts, feelings and facts) gained by talking to everyone.

Another point I would like to make is that India and Indians are appreciated overseas. Most countries, especially English speaking ones are heavily populated with Indians at all professional levels whether they were born their or moved there at a later stage. Moreover, western countries have become very multi-cultural and tolerant and inter-racial marriages are becoming commonplace too. So, I can confidently say strong emotions among the general public against a particular race/ region of the planet are on the decline.

A final point on the success of Indian marriages. How does one define this success? Is it the fact that the people remain married or the degree of happiness in the relationship? How much of it is based on comprise, especially by the wife? How much of the compromise would be considered 'unfair'? How much of this success is based on the societal stigma of being divorced as well as it being virtually impossible for a divorced woman to remarry again?

I may not have addressed all the points raised in the above replies, but welcome others to address them.

Best Wishes,

[sidchhikara]

As per the original answer to my query that you have quoted-
yes, it would be ok in order to maintain discipline.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sidchhikara
You mean it is ok for a Senior Bank Manager earning in lakhs or whatever to speak in harsh tone to a young:D person?


What is the age at which a person turns from young to "elder"?

Say, that happens at time t. Does that mean at t-1, poor girl is getting crap from all directions because she is indisciplined, suddenly at t there is a deafening silence - people around her are already swallowing their words, at t+1, she is heralded as a disciplined zen master, people are falling at her feet, even Baba Ramdev stops lecturing her about her health.

[sidchhikara]

Dear All,



A final point on the success of Indian marriages. How does one define this success? Is it the fact that the people remain married or the degree of happiness in the relationship? How much of it is based on comprise, especially by the wife? How much of the compromise would be considered 'unfair'? How much of this success is based on the societal stigma of being divorced as well as it being virtually impossible for a divorced woman to remarry again?



Best Wishes,

Yes, low divorce rate is based on social stigma, lack of social security for women and financial constraints. Ram-sita ki jodi are good for comics and Ramayan serials. Couples who really like each other will stay married whether it is India, Aus, Europe, Africa. In Indian more women stay married because of other factors that you pointer out in your post.

Increasing divorce rates in metros are indication of this. This has happened for every country in the world when women started enjoying greater rights.

[sidchhikara]

Lemme tell you a real story about respect.
My mamaa who lives in the village with his 2 sons - is in really bad health because of prostate issues. His sons don't get him medicine, he keeps peeing on himself. His sons keep fighting amongst themselves for property etc.. so he has to pick favorites so that he can make sure that he gets his meals from somewhere on time.
Village children are supposed to be most SEVA -oriented - yeah... right !!

[amans]

Indian culture- what is that? If it is so strong why do they celebrate foreign festivals, burn brides?
Lord Krishna - a playboy!
Does education make a person - don't think so. I have seen educated Indian(jats) behaving despicably.
Same for ladies.
Indian culture? a mixture of traditions brought to India by various invaders.
Indian values - what are those? When Indians see other Indians in the west they behave contemptuously. Most likely true anywhere you go be it New York, London or Moscow. So much for Indian values.
Oldest racist system in the world - Indian caste system.
Light skin is preferred over black skin.
I have seen husbands compromising with their low life Indian wives because of their children. Just because a person is a lady does not make her a saint.
Age is a mental thing.