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Thread: Justice of Khap Panchayats on within same gotra/village marriages, how far good/fair?

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  1. #1

    Justice of Khap Panchayats on within same gotra/village marriages, how far good/fair?

    Disclaimer: This is my personal opinion on what should be and should not be in a civil society of mera samaaj…so should not be taken or applied on or to a society, justice body or person. Purpose is to put views and suggestions on the desk of mera samaaj ofcourse…because “Change is the rule of Time and the societies or particular groups of people who follow it create the new society of new generation who knows how to nurture mera samaaj with the beautiful combination of traditional customs and advanced current global social development.

    So I start now on my real topic: “Justice of Khap Panchayats on within same gotra/village marriages…how far fair, how far wrong?”

    Well ofcourse there is no need to tell whom I am calling here if taken on general then it could be applied to any part of India where such Panchayats rule and decide the norms for living in society. But in particular the incidents and reasons which intend me to write are happening around almost 200 KMs radius taking New Delhi as center.

    In this radius as far as I know, there have been some thumb rules not just rules but golden rules which defines the very higher and I would say perhaps the most developed standards of living a healthy and prosperous peaceful and respective life. Ofcouse when these rules were defined there have been many considerations including scientific as well as religious and social harmony traits.

    One among these is:
    “In your home village and Gotra…every girl is a sister and every boy is a brother…doesnt matter of which caste if he or she is from same village…doesnt matter if he or she is from same gotra from around the world, in short and standard “Gaon aur Gout mein sab bhaai-bahan.”

    Note: We Jats are forgetting to follow one pricipal given by Swami Dayananda Sarswati that I am giving the principles of Arya Samaaj but these would require time to time attention and discussions, to nurture and keep them enrich and demanding in future societies. The only thing we will need to do is to reform them, restructure them but not to forget or throw-out from society like a wound because these are our identities. But how...???

    For me, in such cases of same gotra/village marriages giving punishment of excile is ok because it has been the standard and our holy vedic adaptation too but converting the husband and wife to brother-sister is like there is no respect or status of the holy relation of brother and sister....and anyone can be brother and sister..there should be a boundry in defining the relations....to me excile is a better solution than converting them into brother-sister. How far it is good that to teach some one a lesson for their mistake, make the joke of brother-sister relation (sibling relation)...give them excile if they are in mistake but dont insist boundryless decisions. And that is why perhaps the Highcourt of Punjab and Haryana is angry with Panchayats.

    I will put more details on this topic in my next edition with explanations and consequences happening around this rule in our mera samaaj and how this rule is losing the identity and how it could be saved if it deserve so with an analysis on its relevancy to current system and society where these traits not only have to fight with their own people but the reasons because of which these traits are on halt to starve and survive and how can Khaps and Panchayats could be useful and could do favorable to society.

  2. #2
    Thanks Jatland Form for approval and publication of this article.

    I hope you make agree with me that in any society around the world, we cant put on halt or throw the priceless ancestor's traditions and customs but in parallel we cant also close our eyes from changes happening around the socieities.

    Keeping this vision in mind I have started this thread, so I would like to welcome and discuss views, feedbacks and comments from you viewers and thinkers (youngers, matures and elders all) on this open discussion platform.

  3. #3
    How can Khaps play a vital role in standardization and reformation of societies, some suggestions?

    First scenario: Under the dark shadows of increasing cases of honor killings, I was talking with few of my friends from Punjabi community in Haryana on marriages norms defined in their societies to see if really Jats are the only who are still following the so called orthodox traditions. They said that yes we also leave the surname of our father and in special cases the surname of our mother too but not compulsory but we hardly or perhaps not at all go for self-defined decisions and courts (these were their comments as per their best knowledge so if by chance these are not real, I do sorry but such comments makes the discussion healthy and enrich ourselves with surroundings, citation is needed from readers if someone could or might better known and explain any of the other societies views under such scenarios).

    So if I try to set a resemblance in their norms and Jat community norms (sound on big scale but can be any community) differences are not big but their norms seems much better flexible, revised and adjusting to new generation. Jat community also has a good set but seems they have lost compatibility or forgotten the necessity for setting up the compatibility. So one good scope where community khaps could be contributive is investigating and reading these traditions and norms accepted in other societies, particularly on marriages and compare them. Go for open discussions and get the involvement of all communities and also the representatives of Punjab and Haryana High court.

    I am totally against the honor killing, converting already married couples to brothers and sisters because these kinds of decisions are either seen as time killing for the decisive bodies or carry some personal jealous or ego issues. Such decisions can never carry a real spirit of true justice.

    Second Scenario: Young generation is unknown and unable to set compatibility between what they see outside the village (in cities) or through televisions and ground level village community traditions and norms. They don’t find themselves comfortable when facing the new life of cities or town because either they may have not been made informed with or told about it. But they find the relevancy what is shown on TVs to city lives so consequently starts considering it as the standard without knowing the bad and negative impacts of it on their life following their societies. Village culture is put on halt by some high aspirant people living in cities and is criticized as known good for nothing. Consequently this gives a negative impression of their mother culture to new entrants in city life and they intend or decide to follow the city trends not only in terms of earnings but as social too. Overall saying is this that we have to make the villages’ culture, customs and values as standardized and shouted as the cities one. The city one is nothing but the reformed and revised set of village culture itself. The only need is of a mediocre who could pass the good of both cultures to new and young generations. And this is where Khap Panchayats have the vital, wide and really very respect gaining and good will creating role for them.

    It is really ridiculous that there is hardly seen a serial on Haryanvi culture which shows the real Haryanvi values of national level (SAB TV is showing one such serial called “Na aana laado is desh”) as has been enhanced by our neighbors. Panchayats should come on this platform, start conferences, discussions and request TV channels, producers, TV serial directors to produce something relevant to our society and custom. Encourage such people on moral bases as well as supporting them financially so that at least there should be one serial on TV channels like Star TV, Zee TV, Sahara TV and all other such national level channels. Jat communities are known for social reforms; remind yourself of Arya Samaaj, you people only have opened Gurukuls, throughout India (North India in specific) and that too without any governmental aid with your own charity. So now is the time to do this charity for these kinds of activities.

    Today every home in Haryana has either its on TV set, computer with Internet accessibility or in the worst case if you don’t have TV in your home, your next door neighbors must have it. TV is the most entertaining and knowledge gaining medium for children. So Khaps panchayats can unite on this platform, there is no better medium other than TV to make you children of modern age knowing your custom and traditions too. This is not only the way of emphasizing Khap Panchayats role and good will to society but many more too like in schools through moral classes, in families through grand-parents, in villages through respective and honorable elder. All these have to come ahead and take their responsibility and then see there would not be any such case in future neither from side neither of young generation nor from the Khaps Panchayats.

    There is nothing done yet but a lot is to do. I will keep discussing in my next editions on such ways and reforms. In the mean time your views and feedback are expected and important to give a horizontal direction to this discussion.

    Phool Kumar

  4. #4
    Khaps should be totally abolished.They are of no use. More than 99% judgments are made under ego/jealousy/ self satisfaction/externally motivated/influenced.
    First of all khaps leaders should start from their family first.

    Same gotra marriage are no big issues that could justify murders at any point..
    Every khaps/panchayat or any other such stinking systems should try to remember that in their age at night how many houses they have jumped in their village itself or how long they have waited in the fields ... ..:rock .It seems most of the boys/girls from a same village are of same gotras....HAHAAAAAAAA
    In todays world most of the peoples are not remembering their castes gotra is a too big deal..
    Instead of circling the HOOKAH & giving ridiculous judgments ,Go and try to educate some poor kids or clear the Nalis(drainage systems) & prevent mosquito breedings, Summers are coming or else die with malaria/dengue.
    Initially I thought JATS are great being/culture/tradition/attitude but now i feel they too are becoming just like other castes.
    Its still time there we can change & give back the original glory to JATS.
    Lets start from our home..

    Note: Please don't try to show Jat attitude here on jatland.com.All peoples are jat here, so A monkey calling A monkey is of no use..

    Regards..
    I wish to born & die again as JAT.

    तू छोड़ रहा है तो ख़ता इसमें तेरी क्या,
    हर शख़्स मेरा साथ निभा भी नहीं सकता।


  5. #5
    I have been quoting the following from Wiki:

    Hindu Mythology:
    ===========
    In the Mahabharata, one of the two great Hindu Epics, Arjuna took as his fourth wife his first and cross cousin Subhadra, the sister of Krishna. Arjuna had gone into exile alone after having disturbed Yudhisthira and Draupadi in their private quarters. It was during the last part of his exile, while staying at the Dvaraka residence of his cousins, that he fell in love with Subhadra. While eating at the home of Balaramaji, Arjuna was struck with Subhadra's beauty and decided he would obtain her as his wife. Subhadra and Arjuna's son was the tragic hero Abhimanyu. Abhimanyu himself married his first cross-cousin Sasirekha, the daughter of Subhadra's brother Balarama, meaning that first-cousin marriage occurred in the same family for two consecutive generations. Later, Abhimanyu and his other wife Uttara had a son, Parikshit, who eventually succeeded Yudhisthira as the emperor of the Pandava kingdom after Abhimanyu was killed at Kurukshetra.

    Hindu Marriage Act:
    =============
    In Hinduism marriage within the same gotra is prohibited, where a gotra is believed to be the group of descendants of a sage who lived in the remote past. Two persons in the same gotra cannot marry even if they come from different linguistic areas. However, same-gotra marriages have been legal under Indian civil law since the Hindu Marriage Act of 1955. Additionally, marriages within certain degrees of consanguinity are considered sapinda and banned in Hinduism. Hindu lawgivers differ in the definition of sapinda: at one extreme, according to some sources marriages are prohibited within seven generations on the father's side and five on the mother's side. In contrast, other sources allow cross cousins to marry, including first cross cousins. The Hindu Marriage Act bars marriage for five generations on the father's side and three on the mother's side, but allows cross-cousin marriage where it is permitted by custom.

    Genetic Impact:
    ==========
    Cousin marriage has genetic aspects that do not arise in the case of other marriage-related political and social issues like interracial marriage. This is because married couples possessing higher than normal consanguinity have, on average, an increased chance of sharing genes for recessive traits. Consanguinity means the amount of shared (identical) DNA, the genetic material. The percentage of consanguinity between any two individuals decreases fourfold as the most recent common ancestor recedes one generation. To cite some examples, first cousins have four times the consanguinity of second cousins, while first cousins once removed have half that of first cousins. Rare double first cousins have twice that of first cousins and are as related as half-siblings.

    Jat Customs:
    ========
    In order to avoid the second cousin marriages, we drafted the rule of marriages in community called lineage exclusion rule (called as gotra exclusion rule). Earlier it was strictly a lineage exclusion rule as we used to have closed paternal relations within the same gotra, closed maternal relations within the mother's and grandmother's gotra. It was drafted to avoid the second cousin marriages in the community.
    Over the times the community grew, so did the gotras. But more worryingly, we forgot about the core issue and associated it with shallow honour, as we grew treating girl as inferior in the society and girls' family as inferior to boys' family in marriage functions. This has lead us to current problem, where we don't know if the issue is genetic or honour issue.
    My suggestion as solution to the problem is following:
    a. Same gotra marriages should be discouraged, not because it affects the honour of the family, but it risks genetic disorder to the offspring of the couple. (we are already doing the same)
    b. If in case we get to know a potential same gotra marriage, rather than being hostile and repulsive, we should get the boy and girl (possibly with their family) counselled with doctors, only if they are first or second cousins. Our society needs to be honest towards the problem.
    c. For the same gotra couples (who have already married), get them counselled through doctors as well, if they happen to be first or second cousins.
    Regards,
    Jitender Singh Gahlawat

  6. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to jitender.singh For This Useful Post:

    balraaj (October 13th, 2012), harpaljulani (September 19th, 2012), preetikhatri (September 30th, 2011), sukhbirhooda (October 8th, 2011)

  7. #6

    Traditions and rituals are bound to change as we evolve !

    tradition is generally defined as long-standing beliefs, practices or customs that have been handed down from one generation to the next. every culture, every race or group of people have their own rich customs nd traditions. in thinking about the importance of tradition, traditions are practiced throughout every civilization known to man nd have several key elements. in specific nd with JAT’s in particular… i would focus on only two aspects of our traditions...

    (1). traditions have guardians such as historians, panchayti’s, khandwe wale khap chaudharies that have access or suppose to have the knowledge or the truth of tradition's sacred rituals.

    (2). tradition stirs emotion within individuals to bring about a greater sense of self-awareness. in some cultures, like ours these rituals are important to one's self-identity within the context of a larger society.

    that being said, the problem comes when these two belief’s of tradition come in way of changing times. you can treat the global age today as a battle between modernity and tradition. family traditions are, unfortunately, one of the great casualties of modern times. as families become more fragmented nd disconnected, there is less time nd opportunity to enjoy the simple traditions that were once a natural part of family life… sad, but true !

    many of us remember nd miss the little rituals that formed the basis of our own childhood, yet don’t see a way to fit them into a life that is so different from that of our parents when we were growing up.

    traditions nd rituals change with the passage of time as we evolve. new traditions nd ways of living come in force every single day to ease out complexities of our erstwhile traditions nd for the betterment of our lives. sometimes, we even chose them as per our convenience. there is no "one size fits all" solution to today’s increasingly complicated family situations, instead fit your traditions to your family situation and the people in it.

    the law of universe gives everyone equal opportunity to embrace this world nd you only live once.

    this however, can never negate the existence nd importance of our century old traditions nd rituals. but a dictatorial attitude, as that of khaps does no good, but to remind us of our barbarous past, when we were evolving. every parents try their utmost to inculcate the very best of virtue’s in their sibblings. if we find few off-beat couple choosing their destiny against our customs, so be it… let them live their own life. these are just few cases that you can count on tips nd by no means will disturb the genetic dna code of jats.
    Last edited by brahmtewatia; April 7th, 2010 at 12:00 PM.
    ! ... be BOLD in what you stand for !
    !! ... i've the simplest tastes, i'm always satisfied with the best !!
    !!! ... be yourself, everyone else is already taken !!!

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by jitender.singh View Post
    I have been quoting the following from Wiki:

    Hindu Mythology:
    ===========
    In the Mahabharata, one of the two great Hindu Epics, Arjuna took as his fourth wife his first and cross cousin Subhadra, the sister of Krishna. Arjuna had gone into exile alone after having disturbed Yudhisthira and Draupadi in their private quarters. It was during the last part of his exile, while staying at the Dvaraka residence of his cousins, that he fell in love with Subhadra. While eating at the home of Balaramaji, Arjuna was struck with Subhadra's beauty and decided he would obtain her as his wife. Subhadra and Arjuna's son was the tragic hero Abhimanyu. Abhimanyu himself married his first cross-cousin Sasirekha, the daughter of Subhadra's brother Balarama, meaning that first-cousin marriage occurred in the same family for two consecutive generations. Later, Abhimanyu and his other wife Uttara had a son, Parikshit, who eventually succeeded Yudhisthira as the emperor of the Pandava kingdom after Abhimanyu was killed at Kurukshetra.

    Hindu Marriage Act:
    =============
    In Hinduism marriage within the same gotra is prohibited, where a gotra is believed to be the group of descendants of a sage who lived in the remote past. Two persons in the same gotra cannot marry even if they come from different linguistic areas. However, same-gotra marriages have been legal under Indian civil law since the Hindu Marriage Act of 1955. Additionally, marriages within certain degrees of consanguinity are considered sapinda and banned in Hinduism. Hindu lawgivers differ in the definition of sapinda: at one extreme, according to some sources marriages are prohibited within seven generations on the father's side and five on the mother's side. In contrast, other sources allow cross cousins to marry, including first cross cousins. The Hindu Marriage Act bars marriage for five generations on the father's side and three on the mother's side, but allows cross-cousin marriage where it is permitted by custom.

    Genetic Impact:
    ==========
    Cousin marriage has genetic aspects that do not arise in the case of other marriage-related political and social issues like interracial marriage. This is because married couples possessing higher than normal consanguinity have, on average, an increased chance of sharing genes for recessive traits. Consanguinity means the amount of shared (identical) DNA, the genetic material. The percentage of consanguinity between any two individuals decreases fourfold as the most recent common ancestor recedes one generation. To cite some examples, first cousins have four times the consanguinity of second cousins, while first cousins once removed have half that of first cousins. Rare double first cousins have twice that of first cousins and are as related as half-siblings.

    Jat Customs:
    ========
    In order to avoid the second cousin marriages, we drafted the rule of marriages in community called lineage exclusion rule (called as gotra exclusion rule). Earlier it was strictly a lineage exclusion rule as we used to have closed paternal relations within the same gotra, closed maternal relations within the mother's and grandmother's gotra. It was drafted to avoid the second cousin marriages in the community.
    Over the times the community grew, so did the gotras. But more worryingly, we forgot about the core issue and associated it with shallow honour, as we grew treating girl as inferior in the society and girls' family as inferior to boys' family in marriage functions. This has lead us to current problem, where we don't know if the issue is genetic or honour issue.
    My suggestion as solution to the problem is following:
    a. Same gotra marriages should be discouraged, not because it affects the honour of the family, but it risks genetic disorder to the offspring of the couple. (we are already doing the same)
    b. If in case we get to know a potential same gotra marriage, rather than being hostile and repulsive, we should get the boy and girl (possibly with their family) counselled with doctors, only if they are first or second cousins. Our society needs to be honest towards the problem.
    c. For the same gotra couples (who have already married), get them counselled through doctors as well, if they happen to be first or second cousins
    .
    Dont forget these same gotra marriages are Love marriages mostly and love is blind. Love doesn't pay heed to any doctor, society etc

  9. #8
    worth reading

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