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Thread: Walking with Comrades

  1. #81

    Probably there is a little bit of truth in the below.

    Source : The Hindu.

    New Delhi: The Chhattisgarh Government has admitted in the Supreme Court that Salwa Judum and security forces had burnt houses and looted property and compensation has been ordered to the families of the victims of these atrocities. In its response to a petition filed by Nandini Sundar and others highlighting the atrocities, Chhattisgarh Government said it had passed an appropriate order that residents of uninhabited villages would be rehabilitated and that residents of camps would be given rations and health protection.

    Further, it said that security forces should not occupy schools or ashram buildings, which had been a long standing demand of the human rights movement in different parts of the country. The order said: "Necessary action be ensured for rehabilitation of uninhabited families by District Level Rehabilitation Committee constituted under the chairmanship of Collector. Necessary scheme/proposal with respect to rehabilitation be sent to State Level Rehabilitation Committee. Necessary relief money be given in cases of properties damaged by Salwa Judum activists/security forces, besides naxalite violence, after village wise analysis."

    "Security forces be not allowed to stay in school/ashram buildings. Construction of barracks etc. required for stay of police force, be got carried out with the help of Police Department/Authority. Facilities of ration distribution, public distribution system, health toilet etc. in the relief camps be ensured. Inquiries and sudden inspection of complaints be carried out with respect to black-marketing of ration-distribution and kerosene. Proceedings on the aforementioned suggestions be commenced and its monthly report of steps taken be sent." The case comes up for further hearing on Tuesday.



    Fact-finding report on the Salwa Judum, Dantewara District
    By an All-India team (PUCL Chhattisgarh and PUCL Jharkhand, PUDR, Delhi; APDR, West Bengal and IAPL), Nov - Dec 2005
    Press Release at Raipur, 2nd December 2005
    Since June 2005, Dantewara District (formerly part of Bastar district), Chhattisgarh, has been in the news for an alleged uprising of adivasis against the Communist Party of India (Maoist). Most media and official
    reports described this movement, known as Salwa Judum, as a spontaneous and self-initiated reaction to Maoist oppression, and hailed it as a turning point in the fight against Naxalism. At the same time, a few reports indicated that people had been displaced in large numbers and were living in miserable conditions in camps. While this was officially attributed to Maoist threats and retaliation against those joining the Salwa Judum, stray news also came in about the excesses committed by members of the Salwa Judum and security forces.

    An all India team decided to investigate the situation, focusing specifically on the violation of human rights and the impact on people's everyday lives. A fourteen member team from five different organizations
    conducted an investigation between 28th November and 1st December in Bijapur and Bhairamgarh blocks of Dantewara district. The organizations include: People's Union for Civil Liberties (PUCL), Chhattisgarh and PUCL Jharkhand, People's Union for Democratic Rights (PUDR), Delhi, Association for the Protection of Democratic Rights (APDR), West Bengal, and Indian Association of People's Lawyers (IAPL). The team visited both camps and villages, met people arrested during the operation, as well as leaders of the Salwa Judum, Police and Civil Administration officials.

    The main findings of the team are reported below (a more detailed report will follow shortly)
    The Salwa Judum is far from the spontaneous uprising of tribals against Maoists that it is claimed to be. It is an organized, state managed enterprise that has precedents in the Jan Jagaran Abhiyans that have occurred earlier under the leadership of the current Dantewara MLA, Mahendra Karma. The Collector himself has been part of 75% of the Salwa Judum meetings and security forces have been backing the Judum's meetings. The main cadre of Salwa Judum are comprised of Special Police Officers who are being paid and armed by the state, at a rate that is standard in counter insurgency operations across the country.

    The Salwa Judum has led to the forcible displacement of people throughout Bhairamgarh, Geedam and Bijapur areas, under police and administrative supervision. According to official estimates approximately 15,000 people from 420 villages are living as refugees in temporary camps. People have left behind their cattle and most of their household goods. The entire area is being cleared of inhabitants even as new roads are being built and more police and para-military stations are being set up. The region is being turned into one large cantonment. In many places regular economic activities like weekly haats have stopped.

    We observed a pattern in the dislocation: when Salwa Judum meetings are called, people from neighbouring villages are asked to be present. Heavy security forces accompany the meetings. Villages that refuse to participate face repeated attacks by the combined forces of Salwa Judum, the district force and the paramilitary Naga battalion, which is stationed in the area. In addition, there are separate raids by the Naga Battalion. These raids result in looting, arson and killings in many instances. In some villages, the raids continue till the entire village is cleared and people have moved to camps while in other cases, only old people, women and children are left. Many villages are coming to camps to avoid these attacks in the first place.

    Once in camps, people have no choice but to support the Salwa Judum. Some of them are forced to work as informers against members of their own and neighbouring villages and participate in attacks against them, leading to permanent divisions within villages. Individual families are sometimes being split between Judum supporters and those who wish to remain in their villages. We also came across instances where the Salwa Judum took young people away from the village and their families were unaware of their whereabouts.

    It is frightening to note the collapse of civil administration in many
    parts of Dantewada District. Salwa Judum members man check points on roads, search people's belongings and control the flow of transport. They enforce an economic blockade on villages that resist coming to camps. They also try to force civil officials to follow their dictat.

    FIRs registering the looting, burning, beatings/torture by Salwa Judum mobs and the security forces are not recorded. We were told of specific instances where Security Forces threw dead bodies inside or near villages. The intention seems to be to terrorise people into leaving their villages. These killings are not reported, and therefore hard to corroborate. Some reports suggest that 96 people from 34 villages have been killed. However, the only killings that are officially recorded are those by Maoists. In the period since Salwa Judum started, it is true that the killings by Maoists have gone up substantially and the official figure today stands at 70. Rather than being a "peace mission" as is claimed, the Salwa Judum has
    created a situation where violence has escalated.

    The Salwa Judum has strong support among certain sections of local society. This section comprises of some non-adivasi immigrant settlers from other parts of India, sarpanches and traditional leaders whose power has been threatened by the Maoists, powerful local politicians like Karma, and his network of supporters. Both the local Congress and the BJP are supporting the Salwa Judum together.

    Militarisation: We have heard from several high ranking officials that there is an undeclared war on in Bastar, and we fear that the worst is yet to come. There is a heavy presence of the paramilitary like the CRPF and the Naga Battalion. This creates a situation where forces from other states are behaving like an occupation army. We ourselves saw a number of cattle and people being herded by the Naga Battalion after a raid. One of these cows was slaughtered on the main road in full view of all present. In addition, people are being encouraged to carry arms. Village defence committees are being created, SPOs are being trained and armed, and the entire society is becoming more militaristic.

    Although Chhattisgarh is claimed to be a tribal state, adivasi society and culture is being actively destroyed. People, for whom the earth of their village is sacred, are being forcibly removed from it, and the whole social fabric is being torn.
    ************************************************** ****************************

    Couldn’t the Govt find a better way to tackle the problem? I still don’t understand why the Govt couldn’t capture Veerapan for so many years. Was our police and Army incompetant or was the Govt getting enough money from the smuggler.

    I have a feeling the Govt will do something 'funny' again and the tribals will never forget that like the Sikhs will never forget 'Blue Star' (another mis-handled & mis-timed operation). Why do they always wait for the situation to become explosive ?

    P.S. Jitender Bhai please note it’s a copy paste material from the quoted source. Either u believe it or not but please don’t do cruel dissection :D :o

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by vipin80 View Post
    The Chhattisgarh Government has admitted in the Supreme Court that Salwa Judum and security forces had burnt houses and looted property and compensation has been ordered to the families of the victims of these atrocities.
    It is delusional to think a war will not have collateral damage to the civilian population. I know of no war which is totally clean. Also, had naxal terrorism never existed such extreme measures could have been avoided and security forces would not be there in the first place. Dont remember who exactly was talking about "there are bad apples in every movement".

    Fact-finding report on the Salwa Judum, Dantewara District
    By an All-India team (PUCL Chhattisgarh and PUCL Jharkhand, PUDR, Delhi; APDR, West Bengal and IAPL), Nov - Dec 2005
    PUCL is People's Union for Civil Liberties and these human rights people are opposed to a self defence group like Salwa Judum. Blimey! But there is a good reason for that. Read on,

    War on Maoists: Activists feel the heat
    NGOs and civil rights groups allege that being targeted by the police in the Centre's war against the Maoists. Many activists find themselves branded Naxal sympathisers - directly or indirectly - in the 1,000-page chargesheet against Kobad Gandhy

    The chargesheet produced on February 18 names several NGOs and activists for being supporters or helping to expand the Maoist network. It says: "Other civil liberties and human rights organisations i.e. PUDR, PUCL and APDR also take up issues of their outfit CPI (Maoist). These organisations play a very important role in broadening the base of the outfit."

    Rajinder Sachar{Sachar report aale unkal-ji}, PUCL President and former chief justice at the Delhi High Court, says: "I protest very strongly that PUCL other organisations have been named. Violation of human rights is a violation of human rights, irrespective of whether the victim is a terrorist or an innocent person.
    I’d say we all should note that we’re talking about a war we are fighting, against an enemy who is never held to the same rules with which we have constrained ourselves.

  3. #83

    A Report in Times of India too confirms Govt hiring young kids---

    In 2005, when Chhattisgarh decided to arm the tribal population against Maoists, the Salwa Judum — ‘peace march’ in Gondi dialect — was born, adding one more complicated twist to the Dickensian saga unfolding there. It was cheered as a path-breaking , socio-political move to counter the Red menace. But it would soon make the tribals even more vulnerable than they were. While the Maoists suspected many to be Judum sympathisers, lashing out at them with ferocity, the security forces were content to see them being used as human shields.

    In the spiral of violence and retribution, a large number of innocents were caught, both by the Maoists and the Judum. Those fleeing had to risk being killed or tortured by either of the rampaging sides. Often, the Judum bundled tribal youths into camps run by them, promising little more than subsidised rations and some money.

    At a Salwa Judum camp in Konta, Dantewada , the chimera of "noble battle" is well laid out. As you enter the cluster, there are statues of two special police officers (SPOs) killed by the Maoists. A façade of macho heroism permeates the air, hiding a grim reality. Skinny, impoverished young men dressed in battle fatigues greet you at the camp. "We are trained for armed combat," boasts a boy firing from an imaginary gun. The boys have not completed high school, but are training to be SPOs and are paid Rs 2,150 a month. The government gives the ‘loyal’ inmates rice at Rs 2 a kg, free oil and onions.

    The elders, though, are a worried lot. "The biggest mistake is to give guns to these immature boys," says Sonde Veeraiah of Girijama Samgkheme, a tribal association. "They become bloated with power and lose control," he adds. In fact, recruiting underage boys is just one of the many accusations made by human rights activists against the Salwa Judum.

    Activists have tried every trick to force the government to disband the Judum, but to no avail. They allege everything from torture to murder and rape of women whose families refuse to join the Judum. Sometimes, they say, Judum members cut off supply of provisions to their villages if they refuse cooperation or resist relocation.

    Other detractors claim that big corporate houses are funding the movement in order to grab iron-ore rich land from the tribals. The government, of course, has nothing but admiration for the Judum. Home minister P Chidambaram has openly praised the work of SPOs in containing Maoist violence.
    जागरूक ती अज्ञानी नहीं बनाया जा सके, स्वाभिमानी का अपमान नहीं करा जा सके , निडर ती दबाया नहीं जा सके भाई नुए सामाजिक क्रांति एक बार आ जे तो उसती बदला नहीं जा सके ---ज्याणी जाट।

    दोस्त हो या दुश्मन, जाट दोनुआ ने १०० साल ताईं याद राखा करे

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by Svikas View Post
    It is delusional to think a war will not have collateral damage to the civilian population. I know of no war which is totally clean. Also, had naxal terrorism never existed such extreme measures could have been avoided and security forces would not be there in the first place. Dont remember who exactly was talking about "there are bad apples in every movement".
    Nice Dissection (courtesy NDTV) :D but my little brain didnt get much. Do u think that Govt is training/hiring/using these tribals against Maosist in the fight( U call it War?????????)

    Only yes or no ?
    Last edited by VirJ; April 30th, 2010 at 07:56 AM.
    जागरूक ती अज्ञानी नहीं बनाया जा सके, स्वाभिमानी का अपमान नहीं करा जा सके , निडर ती दबाया नहीं जा सके भाई नुए सामाजिक क्रांति एक बार आ जे तो उसती बदला नहीं जा सके ---ज्याणी जाट।

    दोस्त हो या दुश्मन, जाट दोनुआ ने १०० साल ताईं याद राखा करे

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by vipin80 View Post
    Nice Dissection (courtesy NDTV) :D but my little brain didnt get much. Do u think that Govt is training/hiring/using these tribals against Maosist in the fight( U call it War?????????)Only yes or no ?
    Why hold the govt to a higher standard when naxals too are doing the same? Astounded that your 'little brain' could search for links to minors in SJ but anyone with half a brain could easily muster up a couple of links to naxals hiring minors. No problemo, let me help you:

    The child soldiers in Indian Maoist ranks
    Naxals set up small fighting units comprising minors
    Children being used by Maoists in propaganda war
    Naxals recruiting children forcibly: Home Ministry

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by Svikas View Post
    Why hold the govt to a higher standard when naxals too are doing the same? Astounded that your 'little brain' could search for links to minors in SJ but anyone with half a brain could easily muster up a couple of links to naxals hiring minors. No problemo, let me help you:

    The child soldiers in Indian Maoist ranks
    Naxals set up small fighting units comprising minors
    Children being used by Maoists in propaganda war
    Naxals recruiting children forcibly: Home Ministry
    So that mean Yes. You mean they both have the same standards Govt and Moasist. Nice. Now go above and read the post again it wasnt preapred by me. I never advocated the authenticity of this. You seems to be advocating hiring of these tribals(for money or food or for any ideological reason) and their kids and using them. Only a morally and ethically corrupt Govt can do that.

    Also go to post #81 and dissect the last two paras as well please.


    Help me more!! Would you as you claim to have 'full brain'?

    Take it easy !!
    Last edited by VirJ; April 30th, 2010 at 08:26 AM.
    जागरूक ती अज्ञानी नहीं बनाया जा सके, स्वाभिमानी का अपमान नहीं करा जा सके , निडर ती दबाया नहीं जा सके भाई नुए सामाजिक क्रांति एक बार आ जे तो उसती बदला नहीं जा सके ---ज्याणी जाट।

    दोस्त हो या दुश्मन, जाट दोनुआ ने १०० साल ताईं याद राखा करे

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by vipin80 View Post
    So that mean Yes. You mean they both have the same standards Govt and Moasist. Nice. Now go above and read the post again it wasnt preapred by me. I never advocated the authenticity of this. You said yes to my question that means you support and admit hiring of these tribals(for money or food or for any ideological reason) and their kids and using them.
    Do you know the minimum age of a kid who aspires to become an Indian Army Officer? 16 and a half, for NDA. So please spare me the tears welling up in your eyes! Now put yourself in the situation where a tribal kid who has seen the naked dance of naxal terror since ages with his own eyes, where his village is plundered by the naxal terrorists, his mother or sister raped by these charlatans, his land turned into a battleground by these naxal terrorists, what is the alternative for him? Hell, if I would have been there, i would be raring to hold a real gun not an imaginary one as reported.
    Only a morally and ethically corrupt Govt can do that.
    Congratulations for this discovery and welcome to Earth :D

  8. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by vipin80 View Post
    Do u think that Govt is training/hiring/using these tribals against Maosist in the fight( U call it War?????????)

    Only yes or no ?
    Quote Originally Posted by Svikas View Post
    Why hold the govt to a higher standard when naxals too are doing the same?
    Quote Originally Posted by Svikas View Post
    It is delusional to think a war will not have collateral damage to the civilian population. I know of no war which is totally clean. Also, had naxal terrorism never existed such extreme measures could have been avoided and security forces would not be there in the first place. Dont remember who exactly was talking about "there are bad apples in every movement".

    Quote Originally Posted by Svikas View Post
    Now put yourself in the situation where a tribal kid who has seen the naked dance of naxal terror since ages with his own eyes, where his village is plundered by the naxal terrorists, his mother or sister raped by these charlatans, his land turned into a battleground by these naxal terrorists, what is the alternative for him?
    Thanks for the welcome gesture. I have nothing more to say mate. Take Care
    जागरूक ती अज्ञानी नहीं बनाया जा सके, स्वाभिमानी का अपमान नहीं करा जा सके , निडर ती दबाया नहीं जा सके भाई नुए सामाजिक क्रांति एक बार आ जे तो उसती बदला नहीं जा सके ---ज्याणी जाट।

    दोस्त हो या दुश्मन, जाट दोनुआ ने १०० साल ताईं याद राखा करे

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by vipin80 View Post
    Thanks for the welcome gesture. I have nothing more to say mate. Take Care
    Not so fast, vipin. When the naxals terrorists came into the jungles, only people they confronted were the tribals. It is only AFTER they have spread mayhem and murder amongst the tribal populace that security forces went in there and Salwa Judum was formed. i know such trivial and logical things are difficult to follow but dont strain your "little mind" lest it burst a vein, hey, i'm here to help only.

  10. #90
    You still havent dissected my Post #81 last two para.

    But thanks for the below educational post. You got a great brain so could you please answer the last two questions I have for you.

    1. What is Naxals and Why the Naxlas terrorist came there( in jungle) and what they wanted?

    2. And why they spread mayhem and murder amongst the tribal populace?


    Quote Originally Posted by Svikas View Post
    Not so fast, vipin. When the naxals terrorists came into the jungles, only people they confronted were the tribals. It is only AFTER they have spread mayhem and murder amongst the tribal populace that security forces went in there and Salwa Judum was formed. i know such trivial and logical things are difficult to follow but dont strain your "little mind" lest it burst a vein, hey, i'm here to help only.
    Please help others as well and conclude this thread once you answered the above.

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by vipin80 View Post
    1. What is Naxals and Why the Naxlas terrorist came there( in jungle) and what they wanted?

    2. And why they spread mayhem and murder amongst the tribal populace?
    Just simple answers:
    1. Naxals are the terrorist (you have written them as terrorists as well) who are hell bent to destroy Indian state. You are advocating them so I really dont think there are better people then you to find a just origin for them. For me they are misguided missiles being used by so called communist ideologues for spreading their agenda by force.
    2. The tribal area was they area that was disconnect from rest of India. They were the people who could be misguided and forced into their agenda.

    I have very convincing evidence on 2. You go to JNU and you will find that all the communist parties use BA students as their cadre and not the PG (specially science PG students), just because they are very soft targets to brainwash.
    Regards,
    Jitender Singh Gahlawat

  12. #92
    Vipin and Arvind, I have just 1 question to both of you.

    Consider Naxals succeed in their armed struggle. What will be India like under their rule?
    Regards,
    Jitender Singh Gahlawat

  13. #93
    .

    Breaking news: CRPF, police supplying arms to Maoists?

    http://beta.thehindu.com/news/nation...icle418550.ece


    Ye desh mein ho kya reha hai? :rolleyes:

    .. " Until Lions have their historians, tales of the hunt shall always glorify the hunter! " ..



  14. #94
    Jit, not onlythis, SOME PERSONNEL of CRPF ,BSF & COAST GUARD, WERE NOTICED IN BIG SMUGGLING & ALLOWING FOREIGN NATIONALS FROM ACROSS THE BORDER for patti gains, In fact most of the para militry forces are neglected, niether their welfare nor their discipline is taken care of. The Govt has to do something to improve the overall state of these forces.

  15. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by vpsingh View Post
    इ तो तोहार बौखलाहट है भैया. कोनु सोलिड उत्तर काहे ना दियो बबुआ
    भईया Try to understand what other say. I said the Govt approach is wrong. The root problem is created by Govt itself. Naxalism is an offspring of this problem. And now the govt is using their own citizens as human shields?????????? Read my posts again. An innocent advise and ask question with the proper quote so that I can see where I have said such and such thing and correct/educate myself.

    I guess the first thing which was said is " The fight needs to be started against corruption not Naxalis".

    Ask solid question and u will get befitting reply. I dont want to write these meaningless posts again. So please ------

    Till then take care
    Last edited by VirJ; May 1st, 2010 at 07:19 PM. Reason: Spell
    जागरूक ती अज्ञानी नहीं बनाया जा सके, स्वाभिमानी का अपमान नहीं करा जा सके , निडर ती दबाया नहीं जा सके भाई नुए सामाजिक क्रांति एक बार आ जे तो उसती बदला नहीं जा सके ---ज्याणी जाट।

    दोस्त हो या दुश्मन, जाट दोनुआ ने १०० साल ताईं याद राखा करे

  16. #96
    Dear All,

    There are 13 Mighty Enemies of mankind which have been identified as such by the great seers and philosophers. They are also referred to as ‘Sins’ and ‘Inner demons’ and ‘Agents of Human Bondage’ as well. These are LUST, ANGER, GREED, ATTACHMENT, EGO, WORRY, FEAR, ANXIETY, INDECISION, IMPATIENCE, GRIEF, JEALOUSY and SLAVISH DEPENDENCE. One has to slay these demons to live as a blissful “conscious” human being.

    Having said that, there is such discontentment in our society that it seems that those who fight in the name of seeking justice for the neglected tribal’s and, the agencies of the state that fight these brigands, both are right. There are enough points of arguments to prove each side right. We should also understand the difference between Maoists and Naxalites. Just because both the groups are waging an armed struggle doesn’t mean that both are same.

    Hopefully, by now all educated, mature and knowledgeable persons on this forum should agree on certain common points. We all know how in this country we are divided by class, caste, creed, language, customs and development. Yes, development has divided this nation into two; one is India that lives in the cities and along national highways and the other is Bharat that lives in the hinterland. The gap is increasing and the governance is becoming ineffective each passing day. Politicians are finding newer ways of dividing us. Corporate entities care two hoots for social responsibility. While they can pay millions to a bollywood star to launch a new mobile phone, but will not spend a penny for the welfare of larger society. And if you ask them why, their answer is, why should we? So where do the increasing number of neglected millions go? They either migrate to cities to sell themselves as labor for the increasing concrete jungles around the metropolis’s or die of hunger. That’s when those who believe in armed struggle step in and exploit. Things are bleaker than one can imagine.

    No one knows the solution. As it is, in a democracy one has limited options. Even the so called intellectual and economical brilliance of the present rulers comes to naught when it comes to understanding and tackling problems of the masses. What can the government do when you have an IFS lady spying for the enemy and CRPF personnel selling weapons to those who kill their own? To what dismal levels can a human being stoop to is yet to be seen!

    Regards,

    JS Malik
    JAT BALWAN, JAI BHAGWAN

    (Ein Volk - Ein Reich - Ein Fuhrer)

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by jitender.singh View Post
    1. Naxals are the terrorist (you have written them as terrorists as well)
    Jit Bhai Not my words. I quoted post # 89 and the question was for him. Read post # 90 again

    But thanks.
    Last edited by VirJ; May 1st, 2010 at 12:57 PM.
    जागरूक ती अज्ञानी नहीं बनाया जा सके, स्वाभिमानी का अपमान नहीं करा जा सके , निडर ती दबाया नहीं जा सके भाई नुए सामाजिक क्रांति एक बार आ जे तो उसती बदला नहीं जा सके ---ज्याणी जाट।

    दोस्त हो या दुश्मन, जाट दोनुआ ने १०० साल ताईं याद राखा करे

  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by jitender.singh View Post
    Vipin and Arvind, I have just 1 question to both of you.

    Consider Naxals succeed in their armed struggle. What will be India like under their rule?

    First let me correct you. Naxals are not fighting to take control of entire India, they are defending their land and rights.

    Success of Naxals struggle would give a message to the greedy capitalists and power hungry beasts that there are forces more powerful than theirs. It would be another example where greed of the beasts has been given a denting response.

    For the other, and biggest example, you can take a look in the history. There was a time when greed and hunger of power made people to conquer lands for looting their resources. People were made slaves and were treated worse than animals. India itself haven been a victim of these forces (or rather disease).

    You all know what this greed and hunger of power led to. It was the 2nd world war. The war that the Naxals are fighting is the result of the same forces, on a smaller scale.

    The 2nd world war showed the ultimate results of greed and hunger of power. It taught people a lesson. You can easily see the impact of this lesson on the people and countries which were impacted most. Today in these countries, there is a loud opposition from people every time they hear of an atrocity due to this greed, be it on humans, animals or the environment.

    Unfortunately, we Indians seem to have missed that important lesson. People are reluctant to speak against these forces of greed and hunger of power. May be because of fear or because of their own, hidden greed. It could be ignorance as well. I don't know why people either keep quite or worst side with these elements. May be you can tell me.

    Coming to the Maoists/Naxals movement, I don’t think there is any harm in giving them a chance to govern themselves in a different way/style. After all, they have tried the present form of democracy with very bitter results. For them, the governance by today’s style of democracy has failed. They have all rights to try and move to a different style of self governance. In my opinion, giving them this chance would be an example of ‘true’ democracy. When all these people know their condition, their dreams, their experiences better then we or the “government”, who are we or the “government” to oppose them and take a decision on their behalf.

    Now a question to you. What will you do when you come to know that a very powerful person has given a supary to a powerful gunda for eliminating you? Given that all the avenues of justice that were provided to you have failed miserably. Be realistic in your answer.
    Last edited by Arvindc; May 2nd, 2010 at 09:28 PM. Reason: changed the phrase "hunger for power" to "hunger of power"

  19. #99
    arvind, jiten, comrade vp nd vipin nd all participating members esp. brig sir,

    you all seem to be better conversed on the subject. would appreciate if you can let members know as to what exactly are the demands of this movement. was it ever brought up in a decent way to the govt ? same holds true on behalf of the govt. was there any true efforts by the govt to address the issue ?... earlier or now or may be in future ?


    my stance on the situation has been neutral as explained by me in my post. post # 22 . commenting on one-to-one is making the discussion boring, as even me, got lost on the discussion when the proceedings went that way.

    what should be the future discourse towards the solution... lets discuss on these lines to make the thread/discussion more meaningful.
    ! ... be BOLD in what you stand for !
    !! ... i've the simplest tastes, i'm always satisfied with the best !!
    !!! ... be yourself, everyone else is already taken !!!

  20. #100
    Arvind,
    First let me correct you. Naxals are not fighting to take control of entire India, they are defending their land and rights.
    What is the source? What are their demands?

    Success of Naxals struggle would give a message to the greedy capitalists and power hungry beasts that there are forces more powerful than theirs. It would be another example where greed of the beasts has been given a denting response.

    But how is taxing poor adivasis and others giving a message to the greedy capitalists and power hungry beasts?
    How is killing adivasis and innocent people giving a message to the greedy capitalists and power hungry beasts?
    How is beheading innocents giving a message to the greedy capitalists and power hungry beasts?
    How is raping girls and women and sexual exploitation in camps giving a message to the greedy capitalists and power hungry beasts?
    How is blowing up schools giving a message to the greedy capitalists and power hungry beasts?
    How is naxal terrorists fighting tribals, who are defending their turf and resource, giving a message to the greedy capitalists and power hungry beasts?
    How is naxal terrorists shaking hands with Madhu Koda(Jharkhand), Ajit Jogi(Chattisgarh) and other political hoodlums giving a message to the greedy capitalists and power hungry beasts?
    How is taking a percentage of the loot coming out of illegal mining giving a message to the greedy capitalists and power hungry beasts?
    How is growing opium and dealing in drugs giving a message to the greedy capitalists and power hungry beasts?
    How is taking hafta(protection money) and kidnapping for ransom giving a message to the greedy capitalists and power hungry beasts?
    How is supporting islamic terrorism giving a message to the greedy capitalists and power hungry beasts?

    For the other, and biggest example, you can take a look in the history. There was a time when greed and hunger of power made people to conquer lands for looting their resources. People were made slaves and were treated worse than animals. India itself haven been a victim of these forces (or rather disease).
    Arent naxal terrorists doing the same thing with a similar motive? Hunger for power and greed.
    You all know what this greed and hunger of power led to. It was the 2nd world war. The war that the Naxals are fighting is the result of the same forces, on a smaller scale. The 2nd world war showed the ultimate results of greed and hunger of power. It taught people a lesson. You can easily see the impact of this lesson on the people and countries which were impacted most. Today in these countries, there is a loud opposition from people every time they hear of an atrocity due to this greed, be it on humans, animals or the environment.
    With above point,that is the reason govt is fighting these terrorists.
    Unfortunately, we Indians seem to have missed that important lesson. People are reluctant to speak against these forces of greed and hunger of power. May be because of fear or because of their own, hidden greed. It could be ignorance as well. I don't know why people either keep quite or worst side with these elements. May be you can tell me.
    Or people view both the sides (naxal and politicians) as with the one and the same motive and by looking at the actions, come to the conclusion that one(politician) is less evil than the other(naxal terrorist). Not a perfect scenario for the common man.
    Coming to the Maoists/Naxals movement, I don’t think there is any harm in giving them a chance to govern themselves in a different way/style. After all, they have tried the present form of democracy with very bitter results. For them, the governance by today’s style of democracy has failed. They have all rights to try and move to a different style of self governance. In my opinion, giving them this chance would be an example of ‘true’ democracy. When all these people know their condition, their dreams, their experiences better then we or the “government”, who are we or the “government” to oppose them and take a decision on their behalf.
    Ruling India is not a cricket match, pehle meri baari phir teri baari. Who is stopping them from competing in elections by renouncing violence and laying down arms? Why not stand in local elections rather than begging here to give them a chance where people can choose who they want as their representative?

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