12 points by MahaPanchayat - How much you agree?

[BLBijarniyan]

[I have already auoted my views over internet in this case & also requested Sh. Jagdeep Dhankar, Sr. Advocate of Suprime Court to help the community persons who were punished by the Haryana Court in this matter. It is absolutely clear that this is not a verdict but the murder of our community & social system of Jats of whole world. Please mobalise the intelectuals of Jat community to prove the whole social system of Gotra separation in Jats which is the scienfic system of races of Vaidic Hindu communities in India and it is honoured by time to time by many of our Honourable Courts & verdicted them a law of marriages in the society.]QUOTE=bahadur1;244093]I am absolutely agree with the decision of Mahapanchayat. Most of the points should be implemented immediately. I am not agree with the court verdict.

Let us think, if there a marriage which is held within the same gotra or mother's gotra, what is the difference between beasts and men. A cow give birth to a calf and when the calf becomes a bull, it can make sexual relation with the same cow and so on. This is enough to understand this type of lovers. There are so many gotra, castes, so many girls and boys available for this beautiful and affectionate affair. Please do not give a bad name of love.[/QUOTE]

[vijay]

[I have already auoted my views over internet in this case & also requested Sh. Jagdeep Dhankar, Sr. Advocate of Suprime Court to help the community persons who were punished by the Haryana Court in this matter. It is absolutely clear that this is not a verdict but the murder of our community & social system of Jats of whole world.

Are you sure that Sh. Jagdeep Dhankar believes in killing the people who gets involved in incestous relationship ?

[VivekGathwala]

यहाँ मसला सिर्फ गोत्तर विवाद का था , इससे होने वाली हत्याओ का था पर कई मेरे भाई कह रहे हैं की इन खाप वालो को कोई काम नहीं हैं | ये खाप वाले गाँव में विकास के मुद्दे को नहीं उठाते | वाहे करदी इनने तो चल रही हैं राम कथा सवाल कर रहे हैं गीता का | क्या ये गोत्तर विवाद का मसला जरुरी नहीं ? इसको आप लोग विकास नहीं मानते ? अगर ये खाप वाले नहीं सुलझाएंगे इस मसले को तो क्या ओबामा सुलझाएगा ? ऐसी हत्याए क्यों होती हैं ऐसी नोबत क्यों आती हैं ? बबली के घरवालो ने उनकी हत्या की उसका सिला उनको मिल गया | ह्त्या करना उनकी मज़बूरी रही होगी , नहीं तो आप को कोई किसी को थप्पड़ मारने को कहे तो आप कई बार सोचेंगे फिर ह्त्या तो बहुत दूर की बात हैं और वो भी अपने की | कुछ मनचले ऐसा कर्म करते हैं जो गैर सामाजिक होता हैं और फिर कानून की पनाह लेते हैं | कानून हमारे समाज से मेल नहीं खाता | इसलिए सबसे पहले तो कानून में बदलवा जरुरी हैं | कानून में बदलाव होने से ऐसे युवक गैर सामाजिक कर्म करने से पहले सोचेंगे क्योकि उनको फिर सामाजिक तौर पर ही नहीं कानूनी तौर पर भी सजा मिल सकती हैं | यह मीडिया वाले बात करते हैं इन जोड़ो के मानवधिकार की , तो क्या इन जोड़ो के कारण जो इनके घरवाले मानसिक परेशानी झेलते हैं उनका कोई मानवधिकार नहीं | सिर्फ इन तोता मैना की ख़ुशी जरुरी हैं , इनके घरवालो की नहीं ? शादी करले कोई दिक्कत नहीं , समस्या तो तब होती हैं जब ये लोग गाँव में आते हैं अपना हक मांगते हैं ऊपर से सरकारी सुरक्षा लेकर गाँव में घूमते हैं | अगर इनको सिर्फ खुद की ख़ुशी चाहिए तो गाँव में क्यों आते हैं , कहीं भाग क्यों नहीं जाते जो इनको बाद में मारने की नौबत आती हैं |

[singhvp]

Is it really prohibited for the clan leaders to talk about developmental issues ? What is the harm if they galvanize people and use their influence over politicians for better facilities in villages. Is there any Laxman Rekha around their jurisdiction of traditions? For your information some leaders like Mahender Singh Tikait have been taking up the issues of farmers throuigh the platform of Bharatiya Kisan Union and politicians in UP like Ajit and Natwar have to take cognizance of his influence not only in his own (Balyan) Khap but in Sarv Khap also. I remember a massive rally organized by him on Boat Club (Delhi) more than a decade ago. Another Khap leader Shri Fatah Singh Kharab has been working against Dowry (setting a good example by not taking dowry as informed by one member recently) and he has also been very supportive of developmental activities in villages like improvement in educational standards etc. Why not others.

[HPMalikDaboda]

The decisions taken by MahaPanchayat are broadly in line with the prevailing customs in rural North India. Though I am of the view that murder by anyone cannot be justified yet broadly the decisions taken by MahaPanchayat are OK. In this regard I want to add that laws derive their origin in customs and when civil laws (not criminal laws) come in conflict with customs the later prevail. Moreover when Central Government can amend a law of land keeping in view the feelings of a particular class/religion even to nullify judgment of Supreme Court what is the difficulty in amending provisions of Hindu Marriage Act keeping in view the feelings of such a vast majority. If the Central Government does not react favorably, as per the feelings of such a vast majority, then it will mean that we do not have such a unity as was the unity of the class/religion which forced the Central Government to amend the law in such a hurry at that time. I think it will be a case for us to introspect and take an appropriate decision.

[sanjaymalik]

There is friction of opinion on this matter, if we can not make comman consesus within our community than how are we able to pressurize the Parlimentarian to amend the Hindu Marriage Act.Difficulty is ego of our own people who neither supporting the same nor keeping mum. some are advocating that the customs are subject to change according need of hours, is not the law subject to amendments according to time and need of peoples. Refinement of customs through the process of evolution should be the part of law and such customs becames law in itsself after a long years of follow up. So in my opinion such customs like not to marry with in same gotra, same villages etcshould be incorparted under Hindu Marriage Act.</p>

[hemanthooda]

One more relevant story by TOI on sunday....

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/h...ow/5854612.cms

[solankimk]

ek gotra main saadi theek naheee hai is bahut saarey scientific karan hain jismain bujurgon ka yogdaan hain ( jaise ki daadee main key nuskey ) being our older we should have to support them in our manner by avoiding killing and fight for them not with Laati or gun but by some drive like this virtual efforts . they will also pride on us

4 business main sarkar ko hiladetey hain
80% GRAMIN SARKAR KO TAS SE MUS NAHEE KLAR SAKTEY
SOCHO
AUR SOCHO
KISAAN KO SUBSIDARY DEE JAATI HAIN - USKA FAAYDA BUSINESS MAIN LETEY -BUSINESS PALN MAIN HERA FEREE
BUSINESS MAIN TAX REBATE LETA HAI , SEZ - KISAAN KO BE GHAR - BUSINESS

[vijay123]

Ab to 60% grameen reh gaye hai, usme se bhi 100% jat na hai. Pher ya koi itni badi samasya bhi naa hai, ghar wale aap hi nipat le iste. Sarkar kanoon bana degi to ke ghar wale kuch na kehve, jake bas thane mei rapat likha denge.

Baki is thread mei BUSINESS MAIN ko kyu ghusa diya. Uska is masale se kya lena dena hai?

ek gotra main saadi theek naheee hai is bahut saarey scientific karan hain jismain bujurgon ka yogdaan hain ( jaise ki daadee main key nuskey ) being our older we should have to support them in our manner by avoiding killing and fight for them not with Laati or gun but by some drive like this virtual efforts . they will also pride on us

4 business main sarkar ko hiladetey hain
80% GRAMIN SARKAR KO TAS SE MUS NAHEE KLAR SAKTEY
SOCHO
AUR SOCHO
KISAAN KO SUBSIDARY DEE JAATI HAIN - USKA FAAYDA BUSINESS MAIN LETEY -BUSINESS PALN MAIN HERA FEREE
BUSINESS MAIN TAX REBATE LETA HAI , SEZ - KISAAN KO BE GHAR - BUSINESS

[Samarkadian]

Yesterday on NDTV English[ read Undy-TV] there was a debate about Khap.

One gentleman named Vijender Singh put it [Same Gotra Marriage] in most expressive words I have ever heard which said:- Same Gotra marriage is like offering Beef to an Hindu and pork to Muslim and later on forcing him to justify it.

Can someone put up the script of the discussion?

[hemanthooda]

Even last week there was heated debate on NDTV hindi about Khaps...Hum Log with Pankaj Pachauri....i am trying to find it on net without any success....

[dahiyask]

[QUOTE=Samarkadian;244601]Yesterday on NDTV English[ read Undy-TV] there was a debate about Khap.

One gentleman named Vijender Singh put it [Same Gotra Marriage] in most expressive words I have ever heard which said:- Same Gotra marriage is like offering Beef to an Hindu and pork to Muslim and later on forcing him to justify it.

Can someone put up the script of the discussion?[/YOU ARE RIGHT SAMAR BHAI. LEKIN AAJ KAL KUCHH JAT AAPNE KO JYADA PADDE LIKHE MANTE HAIN VO IS IN BATO KO DAKIYANUSHI MANTE HAIN. EK GOT ME SHADI TI BILKUL BHI HONI CHAHIYE.

[VirJ]

Yesterday on NDTV English[ read Undy-TV] there was a debate about Khap.

One gentleman named Vijender Singh put it [Same Gotra Marriage] in most expressive words I have ever heard which said:-

Can someone put up the script of the discussion?

Samar, le sun le neo liberals ki ragni. Kayi to thik dhang se khap ka ucharan bhi nahi kar sakte. The guy said : We would be early leavers of Hinduism if some things are forced upon us.

The reason why law amendment is requested by some is because "the Khaps ban on marriage between the same Gotras is in complete conflict with the Hindu Marriage Act that allows marriage within same Gotras".


http://www.ndtv.com/news/videos/vide...php?id=1224252

[vijay123]

Thanks for posting the link.

Samar, le sun le neo liberals ki ragni. Kayi to thik dhang se khap ka ucharan bhi nahi kar sakte. The guy said : We would be early leavers of Hinduism if some things are forced upon us.

The reason why law amendment is requested by some is because "the Khaps ban on marriage between the same Gotras is in complete conflict with the Hindu Marriage Act that allows marriage within same Gotras".


http://www.ndtv.com/news/videos/vide...php?id=1224252

[vijay123]

The Jat person defending khaps (Bijender Maan) in video said that it is wrong to even kill a dog and manoj-babli were after all human beings. If we have khap members believe in the same and follow it in spirit, I dont think country would be discussing it today and media taking it up.

[rsdalal]

Media is interested only in masal news they do not care rest.
Country and its politicians do not solve the issue, it it grows to a point of no return, Just like any issue like Naxalite and Akali issue...

The Jat person defending khaps (Bijender Maan) in video said that it is wrong to even kill a dog and manoj-babli were after all human beings. If we have khap members believe in the same and follow it in spirit, I dont think country would be discussing it today and media taking it up.

[rsdalal]

Issues raised by many here and in media
1. Khaps are rich and controlled by influential people
Not true at all, It is a very open system and decisions are taken in open and in consensus by feelings of majority, what can be better democracy than that. Khap reprentative is from the same family all the time, rich or poor does not matter. It has been done on purpose, to keep the politics away from this system.

2.Some of my brother are asking why Khaps do not do any development work etc .
Sara tax to state and federal govt leti hai. Blame goes to Khaps. It is just like asking why America does not take care for India's development. Blame Manmoham and Laloo for that.

3.On NDTV debate, they raised the issue, that Whole villege bycotted the victim family.
What is wrong in that, do not people have right to decide who they talk to and who they do not. Media is simply tryig to bully.

4. Some of us said Khaps were relevent on old time when Law and order was not good.
Law and order is not good even today. These judes are the same who oredred arrest warrent for Abdul Kalam. They are taking so much time in deciding Kasab and Afjal Guru, But they could decide in this case so fast. Khaps are solving many cases which courts can not do. For example case in Mandothi villege.

If they can not amend the Hindu Marriage act. May be JATS are not Hindus. Mr Bijnder Mann said right "We are the late commers, but we would be early leavers"

[singhvp]

Media is interested only in masal news they do not care rest.
Country and its politicians do not solve the issue, it it grows to a point of no return, Just like any issue like Naxalite and Akali issue...

What do you mean by masal news? Mr. Vijay Kumar has simply quoted Mr. Bijender Mann having said so which is quite true. It was a live telecast watched by millions and not fabricated by NDTV. The way Mr. Dhankhar was conducting himself on this live programme reflected very badly on the image of Jat community. He got hyper many times and heckled the lady panelists at several occasions. His comments about Manoj's mother while talking to Manoj's sister were also not in good taste. Being a representative of such a big and civilized community he is supposed to adhere to the norms of civilized discussion before a TV screen. The other gentleman Mr. Bijender Mann was, however, able to put across his views in a very sensible manner. He seemed to be registering his academic resentment to only the same gotra marriage and not the murder. Importantly, Mr. Dhankhar had a volte face and was wise enough not to support honour killing, at least in front of the TV camera which saved the community from further ignominy.

[singhvp]

Issues raised by many here and in media
1. Khaps are rich and controlled by influential people
Not true at all, It is a very open system and decisions are taken in open and in consensus by feelings of majority, what can be better democracy than that. Khap reprentative is from the same family all the time, rich or poor does not matter. It has been done on purpose, to keep the politics away from this system.

2.Some of my brother are asking why Khaps do not do any development work etc .
Sara tax to state and federal govt leti hai. Blame goes to Khaps. It is just like asking why America does not take care for India's development. Blame Manmoham and Laloo for that.

3.On NDTV debate, they raised the issue, that Whole villege bycotted the victim family.
What is wrong in that, do not people have right to decide who they talk to and who they do not. Media is simply tryig to bully.

4. Some of us said Khaps were relevent on old time when Law and order was not good.
Law and order is not good even today. These judes are the same who oredred arrest warrent for Abdul Kalam. They are taking so much time in deciding Kasab and Afjal Guru, But they could decide in this case so fast. Khaps are solving many cases which courts can not do. For example case in Mandothi villege.

If they can not amend the Hindu Marriage act. May be JATS are not Hindus. Mr Bijnder Mann said right "We are the late commers, but we would be early leavers"

1. In democracy, representatives are elected by secret ballot where as Khap leaders draw their titles from their family lineage. There is basic difference. Therefore, I doubt they represent feelings of majority.
An election or referendum may be held as a sample survey on this site to have an idea of the latest opinion of the community fellows registered here about the continuation, legacy and functioning of Khaps.

2. Yes, I was that brother (you could have named me, why the oblique reference), who advocated "why khaps do not engage themselves in developmental activities". I maintain my statement and reiterate in bold letters "Having some influence among the community, the khap leaders may pressurize the politicians from their respective khaps to devote more time and funds to undertake the developmental activities in their constituencies". Who is suggesting that they should formulate projects and execute the same. Of course, government will do that but someone has to pressurise the government through the political representatives/legislatures. What wrong had I said. Did I commit a crime by showing some concern about the backwardness of the community.,

We are talking big about unity of Jats and do not have the courage to address each other directly by name. (Kya ham ek doosre ke jeth lagte hain, jo naam lene me sharam aati hai.) We have a tendency to refer each other only in an oblique/cryptic manner. If I have said something wrong knowingly or unknowingly and some of you do not agree with that why don't you address your comments directly to me without conveying via Bhatinda and being sarcastic. It shows that all these unity talks are just hollow rhetoric. If we are so egoistic and shy of addressing each other directly, then why this brohaha about unity.

You can silence people of our community who are simply pointing out the drawbacks of our community leadership for the sake of the prestige of the community, but you may not be able to silence the entire national media and other communities who are critical of the autocratic behaviour of the Khaps and the honour killings etc. We the so called "neo-liberals" or the aborigines are not enemies of Jat community. Everyone is entitled to one's opinion and so we are. My dear Jat fellows please do not try to suppress the free flow of opinions on this forum. Let people express themselves without any censorship. The moment we will start writing something undemocratic or un-parliamentary, moderators are there to censor us.

As far as Hindu Marriage Act is concerned, it is not solely meant for Hindu Jats, this is meant for the entire Hindu Community. I think we are not in majority in relation to the entire Hindu community. Other communities which form a majority opinion do not have any problem with this Act. I do not think any such demand from just one fraction of the Hindu religion which is in minority, will be met by the government. Moreover, no political party has so far come forward to endorse this demand. Those who are trying for any amendment, good luck to them. Moreover, simply amendment in the Hindu Marriage Act will not change the mindset of the new generation. You need to inculcate the good values in the minds of your children and provide them ample counselling. Aaj ke wakt mein koi apni aulad ko sambhal le wahi kafi hai, samaj ko kabu mein karn to door ki baat hai.

[rsdalal]

Masala news.
Just because Mr Dhankar could not present his view point, does not mean Khaps are not correct.
Mr Bijender Mann put his point through very well.
In fact Both Mr Bijender and Mr Dhankar were conveying same thing. Khaps are correct.
Now just because of Mr Dhankar's presentation if you want to deviate the issue and blame khaps for everything, be my guest...

What do you mean by masal news? Mr. Vijay Kumar has simply quoted Mr. Bijender Mann having said so which is quite true. It was a live telecast watched by millions and not fabricated by NDTV. The way Mr. Dhankhar was conducting himself on this live programme reflected very badly on the image of Jat community. He got hyper many times and heckled the lady panelists at several occasions. His comments about Manoj's mother while talking to Manoj's sister were also not in good taste. Being a representative of such a big and civilized community he is supposed to adhere to the norms of civilized discussion before a TV screen. The other gentleman Mr. Bijender Mann was, however, able to put across his views in a very sensible manner. He seemed to be registering his academic resentment to only the same gotra marriage and not the murder. Importantly, Mr. Dhankhar had a volte face and was wise enough not to support honour killing, at least in front of the TV camera which saved the community from further ignominy.