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On the contrary I feel that people like you would change the image of jats and further infestation would bring jats to the level of so called SC\ST...
Originally Posted by piush_tomar
On the contrary I feel that people like you would change the image of jats and further infestation would bring jats to the level of so called SC\ST...
Sahi baat ha bhai...... Ye nitindev to sayad Jat ha hi nahi...... Same gotra marriage wale poll main bhi isne yes kiya hua ha....... Main nahin manta ki koi JAT same gotra marriage ko support kar sakta ha....... Ye jo apni bahano se saadi karne ko jayaj tahara rahe hain...... Inke comments ko seriously lene ki jarurat nahin ha...... Inko ignore kar do...
dear sir,
Might me what u r saying is right, but since the ancient times, the caste or community which ever is united and brought up a revolution have succedded, mostly in every nation, and India is a democratic country,where every one has right to express,but of no use because no one listens, while in reality each and every jat wants and knows how important is reservation for us, how hardly we people unite,i pesonally thinks that if i am unable to join the movement, at least i can spread the message or whatever i can do to support the revolutionaries by any means. our community is bieng backward already and i think we all should unite and support this movement, hardly any idea and initiative came after a long democratic wait , theres no other choice, rather i would suggest that not only from UP,but it should be done with a combined effort from haryana also,i m sorry ,i know u will not agree, but this thing is bieng said and done for results and not for the ways to achieve the results.
Never quits till end
Nitin,
Counter questions to my questions can not be the answers. Without getting into further questions and counter questions, I just wish to make few points;
1. Seema tomar won the world silver in a tournamnet held in UK. This was the world title tournamnet and not something held by side of a village pond.
2. I agree we Jats do not know how to honour our own heros. However that does not absolbe our national leaders of their duty to honour her.
3. Having been involved in rural health and education I can tell you with fair amount of authority that governments have no will to adress these problems. At individual level we can only do very limited work.
4. Most so called educated Jats have abandoned villages. Under the circumstances our rural folks resort to whatever methods they deem fit.
5. Yes I agree there is disconnect between you and me. This is probably because of our being at different points of time trajectory. You must be seeing what I can't and vice verse. When it comes to rural development, I am very critical of everyone. Rural India has been failed by everyone.
6. Now coming to reservations. I am on record of being against reservations. My kids consider it a taboo. However, what should we do for our rural folks who have no access to modern education? What should we do when almost all jobs are distributed through back door? How to fight this type of injustice? Can we really blame them when they face injustice on all fronts. Will they trust us to remain peaceful when everyone is cheating them? I am against all violance. However, I do not know how to convince them that our government will do justice to them.
I rest my case here.
RK^2
There are many paths leading to God, politics is certainly not one of them...
Very well reply sir
Hemant, I respect your sentiments. I also agree that thousands of Jat boys and girls are being deprived of their fundamental right of employment because of the reservation benefit given to some other sections of society. But the approach to realize the goal is not correct. Disruption to public utilities leads to suffering to common men only. Politicians are not substantially affected by such disruptions as they have alternative options for all utilities. This kind of activities will only bring bad name to the community. We are forgetting that apart from being Jats we are Indians too. Any impediment to Commonwealth game will reflect badly on our nation's image and will be detrimental to any future stake for such events which are very useful for the country. Not only such mega-events generate lot of revenue in hard currency, country's stature is also elevated in the global arena.Mor Sahab,
Though I agree with the very soul behind your words…..I too agree that successful commonwealth games are important to India….If CWG fails it will hurt me as badly as you bro as an Indian….
But I beg to differ from you that these protests were violent…
Earlier on so many occasions when our brothers gave dharna’s & pardarshan’s , no one bothered to listen to us….This action of stopping water to delhi is just an sign to govt or you can say shaakti pardarshan…I stay at delhi , my water supply was also disturbed but I have no complaints….
Yup I agree that elections are the best time….
I agree that this should be achieved peacefully but if govt don’t pay any attention to us, What else can we do???
Bhai Hak lena hain toh khoon bahan tai bhi tayar rehna chahiye , naa toh pade raho ghara rajai mein......!!!!
As Yudhvir has rightly observed, during 1991 agitation, parts of Haryana suffered irreperable loss. Bus Depot of Haryana Roadways in Sonepat was set ablaze and the entire fleet of buses was consigned to flames. What was the net result - many casualties, colossal loss to govt. exchequer, suffering to poor commuters. The same is going to happen again if we resort to such kind of violent methods. Election is the appropriate time and platform. Unfortunately, during elections we forget the common agenda and decide to vote according to our personal agenda. Moreover, the reservation will be decided by the elected representatives and not the common man in Delhi who is being made to suffer. Why doen't the leadership ask the Jat Politicians in power to spearhead the compagin and pressurise the government to do the needful. If the MP/MLAs concerned are not responsive, action may be taken against them by barricading their houses or blocking their movement etc. etc.
[QUOTE=nitindev;247672]I would reiterate my words which I said earlier. We clearly need to draw the line in our agigation... And my expectation at the bare minimum from fellow jatlanders is that we should give it a thought before we act like savages. There is a thumb rule "Don't treat others the way you don't want to be treated"
[INDENT]Irrespective of whether how many jats are there in Delhi or not, to trouble people for any relevant or irrelevant demands is a sin. An extension of such act would slide into the category of terrorism. There is a clear difference of opinion among the jats on the issue of reservations, so how can the government decide so easily on this issue. If any other caste group comes up today and behaves the way we are, then should the govt. accept its demands for the same. Should the govt. accept the demands of islamic extremist, or the maoist. This approach of opportunism is not only troublesome but a huge embarassement for the whole jat community and to top it, some even people take pride in it. What is the point of achieving something at the cost of causing agony to the masses. Is this not selfishness and an act of cowardness??
Nitin,
If this is the way govt want to listen , then it is govt’s choice….
I respect your sentiment of not hurting our fellow citizens….But is there any other way out….
This can no way be called terrorism…..
Regarding need of reservation majority of us support it.
I would have loved to hear from you if you being born in a poor family having very low land holding & no access to good education…I suspect it would have been the same.No offences meant here.
Most of us here on JL are from good families , are financially welloff & at good positions. Personally I don’t reservation but our brothers need….what is the harm if they can get admission into good institutes , have better chances of jobs & age limit relaxation…
You cant put protesters on the same plane with Maoists & Islamic extremist coz the later ones are trained to wage the war against the state.
For achieving any thing in life , there is cost element involved always ….
No doubt successful CGW games are of utmost importance to us….I am as proud Indian as you are…..The Lions & satyamave jayte on my passport makes me feel very special … I am not sure If you are still a citizen of india but it does not matter, you are contributing to nation building from there also…
CWG games distruption I suppose is more of arm twisting trick….
Let us not make it reservation vs non reservation debate…..we should discuss how it can be achieved without any violent means/disturbing fellow citizens life….
BR
Hemant Hooda
Dear Kalkhande Sir,
I believe that I addressed your queries quite specifically along with the counter questions which were required to rethink our outlook on the matter. However I fail to receive any comments on my queries. If my questions are irrelevant then it should be pointed out.
For all the points that you have mentioned in your above post, I fail to see the Jat community specific problems. These are all prevailing national problems and every community suffers from them.
Sir's "very well reply" also had this-
And you just said 2 posts back this-
Ab zara is baat pe apni tippani dijiyega ki kya Sir bhi "Siyar", "Gidd" aur "Jaychand" hain? Bas haan ya na. Khamkha ki chak pak nahin...
Sir,
I don't think it is either a simple miss or a prejudice. If you strongly believe in something, and then look for evidence to support that, you can find a plenty- it is called selection bias. That's why most research have to start from an unbiased sample, to the extent possible.
Anyways, coming back to this case, truth can be found only by digging a bit deeper. Which I did. Shotgun shooting is not an olympic sport. In fact, its world cup is held separately from other shooting world cups, governed by the ISSF, the governing body for shooting. You can find the info here:
http://www.issf-sports.org/theissf/championships.ashx
Now it so happens that the media just gives more attention to the olympic shooting events. Indian media is not alone in this, though it would be more extreme in giving prominence to those who win in olympic events, given our abysmal records in olympics, asiad, commonwealth, etc. The championship is being held in UK- yet I have not read about it anywhere in the media here. Seema Tomar is not the only one who was not given prominence by the media. Ronjan Sodhi not only won the gold, but also created a world record. Though you can find these news in the papers, but they are not being covered prominently. It is indeed sad for the athletes. But such examples would be dime a dozen, from all over India.
The second point that conclusively defeats your theory is contrary evidence. The likes of Vijender Singh and Saina Nehwal have been feted and celebrated like anyone else. In fact Vijender Singh who won a Bronze has been celebrated much much more (appearance in TV programs, celebrity events, etc.) than Bindra who won a Gold. Can Bindra's caste use that argument to show how media is favorably biased to Jats over them? No, because Vijender got all this limelight as he is more of an extrovert and chose to be in limelight unlike Bindra.
Kapil,
Points well taken. However, It may not be true that only Olympic games get media coverage. Look at chess and median attention Visvanathan Anand gets. May be Seema Tomar has to become extrovert to get attention...LOL
RK^2
There are many paths leading to God, politics is certainly not one of them...
More than Chess, Cricketers get the most attention in India. Soccer is the most popular game in the world, though there is one Olympic medal.
I was talking about shooting here, as your comparison was within Shooters. There are lots of different forms of shooting. Rifle, pistol, trap are olympic shooting; Shotgun is not.
Media covers what sells, and the color of money knows no caste. Cricket sells. Long time champions like Anand have their own sellability. Olympic games also manage to sell, and if someone wins a medal for India, then he becomes a celebrity.
Conspiracy theories are best way to rule illiterate masses. Majority of Kashmiris don't take their kids for vaccinations because majority of them think that vaccines will make their wards impotent and eventually they'll become minority in Valley.
Same thing is going on with us. Some Jat well wishers fabricate these stories that all other castes and religions are working against us and those days were not far when Jat will be extinct species and punjabi/baniya kids will go to zoo to see Jats.
I understand that other castes has some misconceptions about jats but that doesn't mean that they have some secret mission undermine jat as a caste.
The entire water blockage happened due to tacit support from Mayawati. She let it happened because by doing that she conveyed the support for reservation to jats. She is doing it to get mileage in UP elections, this is going to help her later. If you would think a bit more, you would realize that the Ajit Singh's party RLD was not there in the agitation. RLD is the only jat party having considerable influence in Western UP. By supporting Yashpal Malik, Mayawati is supporting indirectly another alternative to RLD. That is going to divide Jat votes which will in turn help BSP. That;s why she is supporting reservation of Jats wholeheartedly. Secondly she can then claim ki usne jaton ko reservation dilaya hai and that Jat are nolw also in the same category as Chamars, so that is going to boost her ego as well :-). Baki politicians ko to aise hi issues chahiye hote hai, unke upar hi woh apni rotiyan sekte hai.
Last edited by vijay123; June 17th, 2010 at 05:22 AM.
Vijay, Please answer the following questions?
-How many times Ch. Ajit singh and his son Jayant chaudhary asked and raised this JAT OBC RESERVATION issue in parliament?
-Since last 17 years(Mandal commision) How many times Ajit Singh raised this issue for JAT in western UP?
-if a BSP or any other party supports it than why RLD is not happy by this?
-Mr. Ajit singh Joining hand with congress on which issue? if its JAT OBC reservation than why he and his worker not supported this muradnagar agitation?
-What has happend when he supported Mayawati for PM post in 2009 against UPA? was it JAT OBC reservation?
-He Joined hand with BJP before 2009 election? was it JAT OBC reservation? Did jat not vote him every time?
-In meerut JAT OBC rally (8th feb, 2008) ch. ajit singh ne kaha tha ke JAT OBC reservation will be the only issue if he wud join any govt and party. this will be the core issue. What happend than?
Last edited by piush_tomar; June 17th, 2010 at 07:06 AM.
Its hard to scrap reservation based on caste by political parties due to fear of losing votes. Agreed. But they can do the below.
Give reservation to Jats. Then muslims are demanding reservations give it to them. Sikhs want reservation too. Give it.
Give reservation to whole north-east tribal belt (not just ST and other OBC). Soon Rajput would demand it. Grant.
Than except bhramins and baniyas all will be under reservations. I am sure they would want it too at that stage.
Give it.
We all would be under reservation. There is already a clause in the OBC category that certain rich and high ranked officer wont cant enjoy reservation benifits. So ultimately only the poors or middle cast Indian would enjoy it.
Than it would be bit easier for these political people to scrap this reservation (which was initially started for a limited time only). Rather than reservation politics they can devote their time and energy in making and implementing schemes for the upliftment of poor. The poor dont need reservation they need upliftment and awareness. Due to this reservation sometime a few undeserving people get elected for higher and responcible posts which is no good for anyone. Only derserving poors should get elected. Provide them free/subcidised food, free/subcidised education and give them a fair chance to compete. Thats all these poor need not ur reservation politics. People would happily pay their tax for this purpose.
Last edited by VirJ; June 17th, 2010 at 10:37 AM. Reason: Fixxxxed Espelling Gaa ki Saun
जागरूक ती अज्ञानी नहीं बनाया जा सके, स्वाभिमानी का अपमान नहीं करा जा सके , निडर ती दबाया नहीं जा सके भाई नुए सामाजिक क्रांति एक बार आ जे तो उसती बदला नहीं जा सके ---ज्याणी जाट।
दोस्त हो या दुश्मन, जाट दोनुआ ने १०० साल ताईं याद राखा करे ।
Haryana has got so many Jat CMs, why they have not provided reservation to Jats at state level? Why you keep singling out just Ajit for this. Remember that UP jats already has reservation at state level. Is jat reservation only issue left for parties? Are there no important issues left for jat parties to take?
I have no idea whether RLD is happy or not, neither have I read any news regarding their happiness.
Why should they support it? Have they been invited to take part in agitation? Politics is a very complex affair, all these decisions to join an agitation or not have impact on electoral politics. May be Yashpal Malik never wanted them to join the agitation in Muradnagar in first place. Again why you singling out Ajit only? Did Chautala went to Muradnagar? or Hooda?
Your sole energy on this site is directed in projecting Yashpal Malik as a true jat leader and demeaning Ajit Singh. I have provided some light on why Mayawati supported the agitation and you brought over Ajit and his politics into this. What does his support to BSP/Congress/BJP has to do with this? In politics no one is a permanent friend or foe.
Why are you obsessed with what Ajit said when? In politics all this is too common. These politicians say one thing today and some other thing the next day. Is Ajit a Mahatama Gandhi? No. Promises to sabhi parties or neta karte hai, jabki poora kabhi nahi karte. Agar karte hote to desh ab tak developed country ban chuka hota. Sirf Ajit Singh ko single out karne se kya hoga. He is the only Jat leader in western UP who has considerable influence on jats in that region, usse bhi gira doge to western UP ke jats ke paas kaun sa neta bachega? Ajit mei chahe laakh burai ho par gaam ke log pher bhi Ajit ko pyar bahut karte hai or maante bhi bahut hai.
Er tam kitna hi aarakhshan ka dhol peet lo, ke farak pad jaaga reservation le kar. Kal ko pher kehna ki private sector mei bhi reservation milna chahiye. Jo padhai mei mehnat kare usse reservation ki koi jaroorat nahi padti.
You and someone else has said this thing quiet a few times (you said the same for Khap controversy). Could you please tell us what are the / should be the important issues for Jat parties? Please provide comprehensive list if possible.
Also what should be the important topic for Jat people?
Seriously I want to know.
जागरूक ती अज्ञानी नहीं बनाया जा सके, स्वाभिमानी का अपमान नहीं करा जा सके , निडर ती दबाया नहीं जा सके भाई नुए सामाजिक क्रांति एक बार आ जे तो उसती बदला नहीं जा सके ---ज्याणी जाट।
दोस्त हो या दुश्मन, जाट दोनुआ ने १०० साल ताईं याद राखा करे ।
Commonwealth games ke ghane fayde sain..nirri job milgi loggan nai...tourism badh gaya sai...development ho ri hai inki vagah se....aur ye successfully host kar diye to aage kehan joge ho jaavange ke humani yo game host karya tha...ham aur bhi game host kar sakain hain..Olympics ko host karne ke liye bid laga sakta hai Bharat :D ...Football world cup ke liye bhi bid laga sakta hai :D..
Han fer Bharat automatically qualify kar sake hai Football world cup mei, waise to koi chance hai nahi. Per olympics mei medal ki gaurantee na hai....
The word "EQUAL" has no meaning in human life
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