Jat : Is a khiyatriya or a kastgar

[upendersingh]

Bhai mere, aap baat ab bhi nahi samjhe, please read any ancient history books which tell about origination of Jats, Gujjar, rajput. "surname " is not appropriate word whn we talk about history,, just talk in the words like, caste, race, gotra, title.. "thakur" is just a title it does not implicate any caste, Badan singh adopted this title , that does not mean he became a Rajput. In modern era, mostly rajput uses this title so seem that they got a copyright of it . Let me again put a sentence.

"Thakur is a TITLE, Rajput is a CASTE and jat is a RACE"

OK, I try again to clear my point. I ask you one thing. There are four Vikrams in your village. Suppose one of them is Vikram Jatav (Phd), one is Vikram Vaidwan (Double MA), one is Vikram Valmiki ( a sweeper) and another is Vikram Sharma (an ordinary Brahmin, just 5th standard pass). If some outsider comes to your village and ask you 'where is the home of Panditji, Vikram Panditji?' Then where will you send him?
You will send him to the Vikram Sharma's home (I hope you will not deny it making the discussion useless).
Now I say 'Pandit' is not a caste, Pandit is a scholar or academician. It is a title. Actually, 'Pandit' title or surname is used so heavily by the Brahmins, that it has become their identity. Same can be said for 'Thakur'. It may not be a caste, but this title has become the identity of the Rajputs. Hindustan is not the official name of our country, but this word is one of our identities. So, your all claims might be relevent if I had started some thread 'The History of Thakur Caste', but I hadn't done so. It was just a simple conversation. In general, 'Thakur' word is used to symbolize Rajput caste.
"Thakur is a TITLE, Rajput is a CASTE and jat is a RACE", your this line has no importance, because no one cares whether Jat is a race or Rajput is a caste. Others take the word 'Jat' as caste. What does it mean to the society that Jat is a race? Rajput can also say, they are a race. Even a barber can say they are a race. How can we change the mindset of the society?

[upendersingh]

chowdhry saheb my comments were just for comments of porus jaat ,no offence was intended to pride of brave and educated jats, it was only for ignorance, arrogancy shown by likes of porus jaat ,

OK, actually my reply was also in lighter vein.

badhali saare desh me hai , iske liye sabhi jimmedar hai sabhi log sarkari naukrio me kisi bhi prakaar se employment ke chance pakka karne ko sanghars kar rahe hai. , punjaab and haryana me sharaab sabse jyada khapat hai aur saste daamo me uplabdh hai , do not get tempted by emotions, western u.p. ka koi village aisa nahi hai jisme deshi sharab ka theka nahi hai ye dukaane rajputo ne nahi khulwayi hai,

इस तरह से तो बदहाली इस सारी दुनिया में ही है, कहीं किसी तरह की, कहीं किसी तरह की, कहीं कम, कहीं ज्यादा...
ऐसा तो नहीं कहेंगे कि पश्चिमी उत्तर प्रदेश के हर गांव में ठेका खुला हुआ है, हां यह जरूर है कि थोड़े-थोड़े फासले पर खुले हुए हैं...यह और बात है कि...जहां तक मेरे गांव के आसपास की बात है...मेरी जब भी उन पर नजर पड़ी है, वहां मुझे कभी-कभार ही कोई ग्राहक नजर आया, हां, यह जरूर है कि पहले के मुकाबले इस क्षेत्र में शराबियों की संख्या में इजाफा हुआ है...
Kerala, the cute coastal queen of India is much admired for its unique achievement in the field of education, child health, and infant mortality and general hygiene. But, it is exceedingly unfortunate these glorious achievements lose its luster just for one reason, alcoholism. The state has the highest rate of per capita consumption of liquor, about 8.5 litres per person.
Kerala has the highest liquor consumption rate in India

jaha tak saare desh ko khilaane ki baat hai to kuchh had tak sahi hai lekin inhi area me gujar,saini,yadav,rajput,tyagi,muslim,gadariya, dalit, bhi kissan hai?aur jato se jyada hai inka contribution aap bhool gaye?

हा...हा...हा...
हां, इस तरह तो शायद हो जाए मुकाबला...बाकी बेशक अन्य जातियों के योगदान को भी नकारा नहीं जा सकता...अभी गेहूं की कटाई चल रही है तो सभी अपना-अपना योगदान दे रहे हैं, कटाई कोई और जाति का कर रहा है, मशीन कोई और जाति का चला रहा है...सभी मिल-जुलकर भाईचारे से काम निपटाते हैं...ईश्वर करे ये भाईचारा बना रहे और सभी देश की भलाई को पहले रखें, न कि अपनी जाति की भलाई को...

[upendersingh]

Bhai, can you tell the name of any Jat king of Bharatpur or Dholpur, who used 'Thakur' as his surname?

Yes, badan singh (father of surajmal), he took the title of thakur, even churaman was known as Thakur churaman......

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Badan_Singh (search for word thakur)

In those days, it might be a title, but Badan Singh or Churaman has never been suffixed or prefixed with this title in history books. In the abovegiven link, there is mention of title 'Thakur', but in Churaman there is no such mention. Actually there is 'Zamindar' in place of it. And it may be highly objectionable to say that these two were 'Thakur'. People don't go in so deep. Now this title 'Thakur' has become the identity for the Rajputs.

If it is written somewhere that Rajputs of Bharatpur or Dholpur used this title then it may not mean that Jats of Bharatpur used this title. In yours given link it is no where mentioned that 'Thakur' is just 4-5 hundred years old title. Look at the history of Bharatpur and Dholpur;
History of Bharatpur
I can bet on this, please give me any reference where any Rajput or any other caste used this title before 1500 AD. This is just originated few centuries back, it is something like "chaudhary" (chaudhary is also few centuries older), gujjars uses chaudhary, jat uses chaudhary, Tyagi uses chaudhary, bengali uses chaudhary..do you get my point? So Title never signifies caste, it is not a gotra. I hope you understand the diff between title and gotra

You don't bet, otherwise Burdak Ji will be very happy to do so.
.................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .....
Kot Solankiyan Inscription of 1418 (कोटसोलंकी का लेख १४१८ ई.)
"स्वस्ति श्री संवत १४७५ वर्षे आषाढ सुदि ३ सोमे राणा श्री लाषा विजयराज्ये प्रधान ठाकुर श्री मांण्डण व्यापारे श्री आसलपुर दुर्गे श्री पार्श्वनाथ चैत्ये । उपकेशवंशी लिगा गोत्रे साह कडुआ भार्या कमलादे पु. जगसींह वाउरा नूलु केल्हा जगसींह भर्या त्रजाल्हणदे पुत्र खेढा भार्या जयंती पुत्र सुहड सल्लू सहितेन आत्मपुण्य श्रेयसे बालणामंडपजीर्णोद्धार: कारापित शुभं भवतु । समस्त संघ मांडणठाकुर साक्षिक:"
Link
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One more thing here. The above write-up may not be the first instance when 'Thakur' word was used. It may be possible that this word had been used even before 1418. Though I agree it is something like 'Chaudhary' or 'Pandit'.

And if you are right, still we can't rule out this fact that Thakurs or Rajputs are not Jats or other castes. If we say someone is Rajput, then one can say who Rajput? Even Jats are Rajputs. If we say someone is Thakur, then still one can say who Thakur? Even Jats are Thakur? So it should mean that there is no caste like Rajputs or Thakurs. If it is so, then what is the caste of Olympic silver medalist shooter Major Rajyavardhan Singh Rathore or Ex P.M. Late V. P. Singh or Chandra Shekhar?

you got my point totally wrong, you are saying king vikramaditya a thakur or rajput but he was born some 2200 years back , at that time even these words were not originated (I hope you know that rajput caste was originated on Mount abu (netween 600-800 AD), he was a kshatriya, you can not call him thakur or rajput.

your question, These are rajputs and probably some of them use their surname as Thakur. All rajputs don't use Thakur.

I just want to say that if 3 people plant a tree, but 2 out of them don't care for the tree and one guy cares, then it is not fair for those 2 to claim on that tree after some years. If Rajputs have been using 'Vikram' as their middle name for the centuries, then Jats' and Gujjars' claim gets weaker to be the descendants of Vikramaditya. Moreover, Jats & Gujjars in Ujjain???? But here I would also like to clear that I am not insisting on it. I just know that one of my friends told me about Vikramaditya 9-10 years back when I asked him why he used 'Vikram' as his middle name. If Rajputs are happy to get inspiration from Vikramaditya's name, then what is wrong to say what I have said in my first post in this thread.

In above link, Gujjars' claim of being real Parmaras comes after the Rajputs, despite in alphabatic order 'Gujjar' word comes first. Now what would you say?

I explained it above, there was no rajput caste before 500 AD and every historian accept it. so my statement "Vikram was Kshatriya, caste is not known, race probably Jat or Gujjar"

No objection

Moreover, if Vikramaditya was either a Jat or Gujjar, then why these two don't include this name in their names as Rajputs/Thakurs do? I haven't heard any Prashant Vikram Singh or Upender Vikram Singh ever? Though there may be some exceptions, but Rajputs/Thakurs do so in much larger quantity. In Eastern U. P. mostly Rajputs/Thakurs use 'Pratap' or 'Vikram' in their names. That's why I think so that Vikramaditya was Rajput/Thakur.

There are 4 vikram in my village , 2 are Jats , 1 is chura and 1 is jheemar. I have also seen the jat people who use this as their middle name..

'Vikram' as middle name was concerned. I also had said that there might be some exceptions.

And whatever he is, I just said if Thakurs again adopt the qualities of Vikramaditya or Maharana Pratap, then it will be very good for the country. The majority of evidences say these two to be Rajputs/Thakurs
my statement
"Pratap was rajput not vikramaditya"

If Vikramaditya was from 'Parmaras' or 'Tuar' dynasty, it may be possible, but I repeat again I am not insisting upon it.

[prashantacmet]

OK, I try again to clear my point. I ask you one thing. There are four Vikrams in your village. Suppose one of them is Vikram Jatav (Phd), one is Vikram Vaidwan (Double MA), one is Vikram Valmiki ( a sweeper) and another is Vikram Sharma (an ordinary Brahmin, just 5th standard pass). If some outsider comes to your village and ask you 'where is the home of Panditji, Vikram Panditji?' Then where will you send him?
You will send him to the Vikram Sharma's home (I hope you will not deny it making the discussion useless).
Now I say 'Pandit' is not a caste, Pandit is a scholar or academician. It is a title. Actually, 'Pandit' title or surname is used so heavily by the Brahmins, that it has become their identity. Same can be said for 'Thakur'. It may not be a caste, but this title has become the identity of the Rajputs. Hindustan is not the official name of our country, but this word is one of our identities. So, your all claims might be relevent if I had started some thread 'The History of Thakur Caste', but I hadn't done so.



It was just a simple conversation. In general, 'Thakur' word is used to symbolize Rajput caste.
"Thakur is a TITLE, Rajput is a CASTE and jat is a RACE", your this line has no importance, because no one cares whether Jat is a race or Rajput is a caste. Others take the word 'Jat' as caste. What does it mean to the society that Jat is a race? Rajput can also say, they are a race. Even a barber can say they are a race. How can we change the mindset of the society?

Hmmm........you can not change mindset of society so do you accept what society say about your great Jatt caste/race whatever?? jatts have termed as "shudra" by these so called upper caste. Once there was a time jats did not some with rajputs , could not sit with them on the same cot., how your Jat blood suffered that humiliation. Mr. Upender ji, it is your responsibilty to educate the people who you are and what they are. Please just don't go with what society says. As far as society is concerned, nothing matters and if there some % is left , it will eradicate completely. Intercaste marriages are rampant now a days..and this caste bar is being narrowed down but it will never change what "individual" you are..you go with society or take pride on your ancestors......and lastly It is a well knwon fact that Jatt is a race and rajput is caste, noone can deny it.

Now on identity thing I agree that Thakur has become an identity for rajputs. I just want to bring in the notice what meaning this word holds.

[prashantacmet]

In those days, it might be a title, but Badan Singh or Churaman has never been suffixed or prefixed with this title in history books. In the abovegiven link, there is mention of title 'Thakur', but in Churaman there is no such mention. Actually there is 'Zamindar' in place of it. And it may be highly objectionable to say that these two were 'Thakur'. People don't go in so deep. Now this title 'Thakur' has become the identity for the Rajputs.




You don't bet, otherwise Burdak Ji will be very happy to do so.
.................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .....
Kot Solankiyan Inscription of 1418 (कोटसोलंकी का लेख १४१८ ई.)
"स्वस्ति श्री संवत १४७५ वर्षे आषाढ सुदि ३ सोमे राणा श्री लाषा विजयराज्ये प्रधान ठाकुर श्री मांण्डण व्यापारे श्री आसलपुर दुर्गे श्री पार्श्वनाथ चैत्ये । उपकेशवंशी लिगा गोत्रे साह कडुआ भार्या कमलादे पु. जगसींह वाउरा नूलु केल्हा जगसींह भर्या त्रजाल्हणदे पुत्र खेढा भार्या जयंती पुत्र सुहड सल्लू सहितेन आत्मपुण्य श्रेयसे बालणामंडपजीर्णोद्धार: कारापित शुभं भवतु । समस्त संघ मांडणठाकुर साक्षिक:"
Link
.................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .....................................
One more thing here. The above write-up may not be the first instance when 'Thakur' word was used. It may be possible that this word had been used even before 1418. Though I agree it is something like 'Chaudhary' or 'Pandit'.



I just want to say that if 3 people plant a tree, but 2 out of them don't care for the tree and one guy cares, then it is not fair for those 2 to claim on that tree after some years. If Rajputs have been using 'Vikram' as their middle name for the centuries, then Jats' and Gujjars' claim gets weaker to be the descendants of Vikramaditya. Moreover, Jats & Gujjars in Ujjain???? But here I would also like to clear that I am not insisting on it. I just know that one of my friends told me about Vikramaditya 9-10 years back when I asked him why he used 'Vikram' as his middle name. If Rajputs are happy to get inspiration from Vikramaditya's name, then what is wrong to say what I have said in my first post in this thread.



No objection



'Vikram' as middle name was concerned. I also had said that there might be some exceptions.



If Vikramaditya was from 'Parmaras' or 'Tuar' dynasty, it may be possible, but I repeat again I am not insisting upon it.

There seems a discrepancy in the debate and may be we are not at the same level while supporting our arguments. I am taking in the perspective of history of "Jats and Rajputs" and what historians says about these two castes/races. I never intended to underrate Rajputs or any other caste. You just take a viewpoint that 'vikram" is being used as middle name by Thakurs now a days and you said that 'vikramaditya was a thakur". When vikranaditya was born and if you see the caste structure of that time, there was no caste/race with name "rajput" at that time (as per most historians) and as far as "thakur" is concerned, I agree now a days it is prominently used by Rajputs but I insist again it does not have a long history (same is true for word "singh" please search who was the man that used it first) when it comes its usage as a "caste" suffix/prefix. May be I am slighly wrong when I say it was not used before 1500 AD.

Anyway, my whole intention was just to educate you that ""vikramaditya" was not a thakur/rajput", nothing more because there was no thakur/rajput caste at that time but it may be possible that successors of most kshatriyas of that time later called as "rajput". I hope you understand my point and no offense please I am not here just to refute your sentences..so kaachhe kaat arr kookdi kha...chokhi lage to maan ke na to koi baat na...................

[upendersingh]

Hmmm........you can not change mindset of society so do you accept what society say about your great Jatt caste/race whatever?? jatts have termed as "shudra" by these so called upper caste. Once there was a time jats did not some with rajputs , could not sit with them on the same cot., how your Jat blood suffered that humiliation.

Bhai Lamde, I do accept what society says about my great Jat caste/race whatever. I many times tried to know the views of others about the Jats in disguise (without telling them that I am a Jat) and what I got that makes me proud. The society is highly impressed of the Jats. Some days back some sardars were in my village to buy a mm and they were very happy to enter that region. They bought that thing in 50,000 rs. from someone in my village and departed happily. Jats are lord from the very beginning, but others will accept you the lord if you compel them. No one wants to give a damn to the others here. Others have to be compelled to do so. It is possbile only if you have majority somewhere. We have it in saveral states/regions.

Mr. Upender ji, it is your responsibilty to educate the people who you are and what they are. Please just don't go with what society says. As far as society is concerned, nothing matters and if there some % is left , it will eradicate completely.

The most necessary thing is to prove we are the lord, not such things that we are a race, not a caste etc.

Intercaste marriages are rampant now a days..and this caste bar is being narrowed down but it will never change what "individual" you are..you go with society or take pride on your ancestors......and lastly It is a well knwon fact that Jatt is a race and rajput is caste, noone can deny it.

Intercaste marriages were there in past too. How many Jats in your village have married their girls in other castes? Such incidents mostly are happening in the cities, where Jats are hardly 1%. As far as race or caste is concerned, then what does it mean? What special we have being a race and what others lack being a caste and not a race? What are the characterstics of this 'race'? If Jats have their own life style, others also have their own. This race/caste thing has no importance.

Now on identity thing I agree that Thakur has become an identity for rajputs. I just want to bring in the notice what meaning this word holds.

Actually you just brought in the notice what meaning this word held in past. Now this word means different. Now even a fruit vendor says himself a Thakur if he is a Rajput.

[prashantacmet]

Actually you just brought in the notice what meaning this word held in past. Now this word means different. Now even a fruit vendor says himself a Thakur if he is a Rajput.

Finally you got it!!

[shashachaudhary]

Dear Sewa Singh.....

Do you forget the bath of Maharani Kishori at Pushkar... that area is dominated by rajputs even then she make it...Jat is know fro Bravery & Justice...you can also see our contribution towards our country we are maximum in Army & police...and also remember the NSG operation at bombay attack which comes from delhi & haryana.....and definately we are Kshatriya dear...no issue in that....

[yashvardhan]

Thakur saheb, ek family mae 14 admi thae,10 log sanik ho gaye,3 log officer[samat/jagirdar/thakur],ek admi raja[king].yeh 4 log[king+3 thakur] apne ko rajput kahne lage[south india mae tau raja apne ko parmeshvar bhi kahte thae].baki 10 admi ke 30 ladke ho gaye.jinme se kuch sanik aur kuch kisan bane.ye Jaat kahlaye.Ishiliye jat aur rajputo ke gotra milte hae.bad mae 1500 AD jat estate bhi bani[ex-Gohad, MP].Iske bad Bharatpur,mursan,kucheser,ballabhgarh,punjab mae Pepsu[Nabha,patiyala,jind,firojpur,kapurthala ex].JAAT AUR RAJPUT MAE FERK KEWAL YEH HAE KI RAJPUTO KO APNE RAJTANTRA BANANE MAE JALDI SAFALTA MIL GAYI,JABKI JAT APSI JHAGDO KI VAJAH SE APNE GANTANTRO KO DAIR SE RAJTANTRO MAE BADAL PAYE
*Tomar shasko ne kabhi apne apko rajput nahi kaha.Tomar rajputo se jyada jato mae paye jate hae.Mujjafarnagar,Baghpat,Sonipat,Khurja Delhi ke pash.Agae chalker kuch tomer thakur hue,aur kuch Jaat.
*Bhatti/Bhati rajputo mae bhi hain Punjabi aroara mae ,aur gujro mae bhi hae.Punjab ke kuch Jat rajvansh apni vanshavali bhatti rajputo se jodte hae.
*Gehlot jat aur rajputo mae common hae.
*Jaipur ke kachwaha rulers ko Brahmin sudra kahte thae.
*Chauhan vansa ka adi purush harishchandra Ek brahmin tha.
*Chauhan pahle lootpat kiya kerte thae bad mae rajvansh sthapit kiya.
*Parvarti Rajasthan ke sahitya mae rajputo ke 36 kulo mae bharatpur aur Dhaulpur ke jato ka bhi naam milta hae.
*Vedic kshatriyo mae vidhva vivah kiya jata tha tatha sati pratha nahi thi.
*Madhya kal ki kahavat hae--Uttam kheti,Madhyam Van[buisness],Adam chakri bheekh saman
*Gupta period mae Chandragupta vikrmaditya ke navratan Amar singh ne sudro ki ek list banai thi,jisme jato ka naam NAHI hae.
*Gupta ruler ne Huno ko parajit kiya tha.Bhodh sahitya mae ishka ullekh hae.
JARTAM HUNA AJAYT[JATO NE HUNO KO JITA].ISKA MATLAB YE HAE KI JATO KI EK REGIMENT NE HUNO KO PARAST KIYA THA.
*700 AD mae Kikkan ke jato ne bar-bar Arab akramankariyo ko parajit kiya tha.[Arab sahitya.& H. C. VERMA VOL-1 DELHI UNIVERSITY]
*Vartya kshatriya vo kshatriya thae jo brahmin devi-devtao ki pooja na kerne se malacch ho gaye thae.lekin agar ye Bhagwan vashudev ki pooja kerte tau fir pavitra ho jate[manu smriti]
kalantra mae jato ne mathura[brij] mae shrikrishna ki pooja ker fir kshatriya hone ko rutba hasil ker liya.
*Bihar mae kuch rajput vansa aaj din-hin ho ker SC ho gaye hae.

[yashvardhan]

khoob kaha hai ,purane jamaane me cowards (darpok) the rajputs isi liye raja ban gaye the and bahadur jaat kheti karne lage,dont live in the dreams,itne bahadur the to do chaar riyasate rajsthan me rajputo ko dara dhamaka kar kabja kar lena chahiye tha

Thakur saheb, ek family mae 14 admi thae,10 log sanik ho gaye,3 log officer[samat/jagirdar/thakur],ek admi raja[king].yeh 4 log[king+3 thakur] apne ko rajput kahne lage[south india mae tau raja apne ko parmeshvar bhi kahte thae].baki 10 admi ke 30 ladke ho gaye.jinme se kuch sanik aur kuch kisan bane.ye Jaat kahlaye.Ishiliye jat aur rajputo ke gotra milte hae.bad mae 1500 AD jat estate bhi bani[ex-Gohad, MP].Iske bad Bharatpur,mursan,kucheser,ballabhgarh,punjab mae Pepsu[Nabha,patiyala,jind,firojpur,kapurthala ex].JAAT AUR RAJPUT MAE FERK KEWAL YEH HAE KI RAJPUTO KO APNE RAJTANTRA BANANE MAE JALDI SAFALTA MIL GAYI,JABKI JAT APSI JHAGDO KI VAJAH SE APNE GANTANTRO KO DAIR SE RAJTANTRO MAE BADAL PAYE
*Tomar shasko ne kabhi apne apko rajput nahi kaha.Tomar rajputo se jyada jato mae paye jate hae.Mujjafarnagar,Baghpat,Sonipat,Khurja Delhi ke pash.Agae chalker kuch tomer thakur hue,aur kuch Jaat.
*Bhatti/Bhati rajputo mae bhi hain Punjabi aroara mae ,aur gujro mae bhi hae.Punjab ke kuch Jat rajvansh apni vanshavali bhatti rajputo se jodte hae.
*Gehlot jat aur rajputo mae common hae.
*Jaipur ke kachwaha rulers ko Brahmin sudra kahte thae.
*Chauhan vansa ka adi purush harishchandra Ek brahmin tha.
*Chauhan pahle lootpat kiya kerte thae bad mae rajvansh sthapit kiya.
*Parvarti Rajasthan ke sahitya mae rajputo ke 36 kulo mae bharatpur aur Dhaulpur ke jato ka bhi naam milta hae.
*Vedic kshatriyo mae vidhva vivah kiya jata tha tatha sati pratha nahi thi.
*Madhya kal ki kahavat hae--Uttam kheti,Madhyam Van[buisness],Adam chakri bheekh saman
*Gupta period mae Chandragupta vikrmaditya ke navratan Amar singh ne sudro ki ek list banai thi,jisme jato ka naam NAHI hae.
*Gupta ruler ne Huno ko parajit kiya tha.Bhodh sahitya mae ishka ullekh hae.
JARTAM HUNA AJAYT[JATO NE HUNO KO JITA].ISKA MATLAB YE HAE KI JATO KI EK REGIMENT NE HUNO KO PARAST KIYA THA.
*700 AD mae Kikkan ke jato ne bar-bar Arab akramankariyo ko parajit kiya tha.[Arab sahitya.& H. C. VERMA VOL-1 DELHI UNIVERSITY]
*Vartya kshatriya vo kshatriya thae jo brahmin devi-devtao ki pooja na kerne se malacch ho gaye thae.lekin agar ye Bhagwan vashudev ki pooja kerte tau fir pavitra ho jate[manu smriti]
kalantra mae jato ne mathura[brij] mae shrikrishna ki pooja ker fir kshatriya hone ko rutba hasil ker liya.
*Bihar mae kuch rajput vansa aaj din-hin ho ker SC ho gaye hae.
*Mahad ji scindia ke pita Rano ji scindia Peshva ke juto ki dekhbal kiya kerte thae.Unki sewa se prasann ho ker peswa ne unhe senik banaya.bad mae unnti kerte hue vo aur mahadji scindia maratha senanayak ke pad per pahuch gaye.aaj gwaliar ke shasak apne ko rajput kahte hae.
*Panjab ke Maharaja ranjeet singh sansi ya jat the.parantu unhone bhi apne ko rajput ghosit kiya.aaj bhi patiyala ke jat ruler apne ko bhatti rajputo se jodte hae.
*Raja mahendra pratap[Thenua jat Mursan,Hathras] ke jayanti aaj mathura mae Rajput bhi manate hae

[singhran]

Thakur saheb, ek family mae 14 admi thae,10 log sanik ho gaye,3 log officer[samat/jagirdar/thakur],ek admi raja[king].yeh 4 log[king+3 thakur] apne ko rajput kahne lage[south india mae tau raja apne ko parmeshvar bhi kahte thae].baki 10 admi ke 30 ladke ho gaye.jinme se kuch sanik aur kuch kisan bane.ye Jaat kahlaye.Ishiliye jat aur rajputo ke gotra milte hae.bad mae 1500 AD jat estate bhi bani[ex-Gohad, MP].Iske bad Bharatpur,mursan,kucheser,ballabhgarh,punjab mae Pepsu[Nabha,patiyala,jind,firojpur,kapurthala ex].JAAT AUR RAJPUT MAE FERK KEWAL YEH HAE KI RAJPUTO KO APNE RAJTANTRA BANANE MAE JALDI SAFALTA MIL GAYI,JABKI JAT APSI JHAGDO KI VAJAH SE APNE GANTANTRO KO DAIR SE RAJTANTRO MAE BADAL PAYE
*Tomar shasko ne kabhi apne apko rajput nahi kaha.Tomar rajputo se jyada jato mae paye jate hae.Mujjafarnagar,Baghpat,Sonipat,Khurja Delhi ke pash.Agae chalker kuch tomer thakur hue,aur kuch Jaat.
*Bhatti/Bhati rajputo mae bhi hain Punjabi aroara mae ,aur gujro mae bhi hae.Punjab ke kuch Jat rajvansh apni vanshavali bhatti rajputo se jodte hae.
*Gehlot jat aur rajputo mae common hae.
*Jaipur ke kachwaha rulers ko Brahmin sudra kahte thae.
*Chauhan vansa ka adi purush harishchandra Ek brahmin tha.
*Chauhan pahle lootpat kiya kerte thae bad mae rajvansh sthapit kiya.
*Parvarti Rajasthan ke sahitya mae rajputo ke 36 kulo mae bharatpur aur Dhaulpur ke jato ka bhi naam milta hae.
*Vedic kshatriyo mae vidhva vivah kiya jata tha tatha sati pratha nahi thi.
*Madhya kal ki kahavat hae--Uttam kheti,Madhyam Van[buisness],Adam chakri bheekh saman
*Gupta period mae Chandragupta vikrmaditya ke navratan Amar singh ne sudro ki ek list banai thi,jisme jato ka naam NAHI hae.
*Gupta ruler ne Huno ko parajit kiya tha.Bhodh sahitya mae ishka ullekh hae.
JARTAM HUNA AJAYT[JATO NE HUNO KO JITA].ISKA MATLAB YE HAE KI JATO KI EK REGIMENT NE HUNO KO PARAST KIYA THA.
*700 AD mae Kikkan ke jato ne bar-bar Arab akramankariyo ko parajit kiya tha.[Arab sahitya.& H. C. VERMA VOL-1 DELHI UNIVERSITY]
*Vartya kshatriya vo kshatriya thae jo brahmin devi-devtao ki pooja na kerne se malacch ho gaye thae.lekin agar ye Bhagwan vashudev ki pooja kerte tau fir pavitra ho jate[manu smriti]
kalantra mae jato ne mathura[brij] mae shrikrishna ki pooja ker fir kshatriya hone ko rutba hasil ker liya.
*Bihar mae kuch rajput vansa aaj din-hin ho ker SC ho gaye hae.
*Mahad ji scindia ke pita Rano ji scindia Peshva ke juto ki dekhbal kiya kerte thae.Unki sewa se prasann ho ker peswa ne unhe senik banaya.bad mae unnti kerte hue vo aur mahadji scindia maratha senanayak ke pad per pahuch gaye.aaj gwaliar ke shasak apne ko rajput kahte hae.
*Panjab ke Maharaja ranjeet singh sansi ya jat the.parantu unhone bhi apne ko rajput ghosit kiya.aaj bhi patiyala ke jat ruler apne ko bhatti rajputo se jodte hae.
*Raja mahendra pratap[Thenua jat Mursan,Hathras] ke jayanti aaj mathura mae Rajput bhi manate hae

chowdhry saheb my comments were just for comments of porus jaat ,no offence was intended to pride of brave and educated jats, it was only for ignorance, arrogancy shown by likes of porus jaat ,

[yashvardhan]

Thakur saheb hindustan mae her jati/dharm ke ander acchai burai dhoondhi ja sakti hae.vaishe main jati-dharm ko nahi manta.lakin ek historian hone ke nate history per likh leta hu.vaishe mere dosto mae jato se adhik sankhya thakuro ki hae.

[sanjayrathee]

Not Chandragupta Vikramaditya...
Vikram aur Vetaal
Vikram samvat
I am talking about this VIKRAMaditya...
He is supposed to be a Thakur...still many Thakurs add his name in their names like Maharana Pratap e.g. Rudra Pratap Singh, Shailendra Vikram Singh (one of my friends).

.................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ..............
Vikramaditya (Sanskrit: विक्रमादित्य) (102 BCE to 15 CE) was a legendary emperor of Ujjain, India, famed for his wisdom, valour and magnanimity. The title "Vikramaditya" was later assumed by many other kings in Indian history, notably the Gupta King Chandragupta II and Samrat Hem Chandra Vikramaditya (popularly known as 'Hemu'). The name King Vikramaditya is a Sanskrit tatpurusha, from विक्रम (vikrama) meaning "valour" and आदित्य Āditya, son of Aditi. One of the most famous sons of Aditi, or Adityas, was Surya the sun god; hence, Vikramaditya means Surya, translating to "(One) Of valour equal to the Sun". He is also called Vikrama or Vikramarka (Sanskrit arka meaning the Sun).
Vikramaditya lived in the first century BCE. According to the Katha-sarita-sagara account, he was the son of Ujjain's King Mahendraditya of the Paramara dynasty. However this was written almost 12 centuries later. Furthermore, according to other sources Vikramaditya is also recorded to be an ancestor of the Tuar dynasty of Delhi
.................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .....
You can read more about Vikramaditya here.

भाई मेरे ये राजपूत अर ठाकुर नामक उपाधिओं का सातवी ईस्वी से पहले इतिहास की किसी पुस्तक किसी ग्रन्थ में नाम नही आता ये सब शातिर बामनो ने अपनी रोजी रोटी का जुगाड़ बनाये रखने के लिए कट्टरपंथी तत्वों को राजपूत नाम दे दिया है वैसे राजपूत कहने को ही राजपूत रहें हैं ये लोग विदेशी हमलावरों से रोटी बेटी का समबन्ध बना कर ही अपने राज्य बनाये रख सके हैं, महाराणा प्रताप जैसे योद्धा जो नही झुके वो जंगल में घास की रोटी ही खाते रहे पर अपना नाम अमर करा गये, जोधा का भाई मानसिंह भी तो राजपूत ही था ना !!!!!!

[thukrela]

भाई लोग आप सबके साथ एक लिंक शेयर करना चाहूँगा
जिसमे साफ साफ लिखा है

“the Indian fighters were so tall that the Macedonians’ heads only came up to their shoulders”. It is likely they were Jats from Punjab/Haryana. After Darius was assassinated by traitors, Alexander marched his armies into Punjab.

Darius यहाँ पर दारा को कहा गया है, अनुमान है की वह भी एक जाट शाशक था

http://www.livemint.com/2011/07/0719...ng-a-8216.html

[yashvardhan]

भाई मेरे ये राजपूत अर ठाकुर नामक उपाधिओं का सातवी ईस्वी से पहले इतिहास की किसी पुस्तक किसी ग्रन्थ में नाम नही आता ये सब शातिर बामनो ने अपनी रोजी रोटी का जुगाड़ बनाये रखने के लिए कट्टरपंथी तत्वों को राजपूत नाम दे दिया है वैसे राजपूत कहने को ही राजपूत रहें हैं ये लोग विदेशी हमलावरों से रोटी बेटी का समबन्ध बना कर ही अपने राज्य बनाये रख सके हैं, महाराणा प्रताप जैसे योद्धा जो नही झुके वो जंगल में घास की रोटी ही खाते रहे पर अपना नाम अमर करा गये, जोधा का भाई मानसिंह भी तो राजपूत ही था ना !!!!!!

Raja[rajvansh] kisi bhi varna ke ho sakte thae.ex--Nanda vansh[Mahapadamnand,Dhanand] Sudra thae.Sunga,Kanva,Satvahan Brahmin thae.Gupta & Harshvardhan Vaish mane jate hae[.Kuch historian jat bhi kahte hae].Harshvardhan ke bad ke rajvansh apne ko rajput kahne lage.Brahmino ne inki vanshavali Suryavansh,chandravansh se jod di.Fir bhi ye log Turq & Mugul ke samne tik nahi paye[jabki brahmino ke anusar akela raja puri sena ko hara deta tha].Prithvi braj chauhan ki sena muhmad gori ki sena se dus guni thi.fir bhi vo har gaya.

[Raaksangu]

ठाकुर साहब, खूब कहने में तो आपने भी कोई कमी नहीं रखी...राजा तो जाट भी थे और किसान तो ठाकुर भी थे और हैं...भरतपुर, धौलपुर जैसी न जाने कितनी रियासतें रही हैं राजस्थान में जाटों की...राजस्थान जितना ठाकुरों का है, उतना ही जाटों का भी है...
आपसी सदभाव अपनी जगह है, इसके बावजूद वर्तमान में आप ठाकुरों का जाटों से मुकाबला करना जरा किसी भी क्षेत्र में...देश में कोई ऐसा क्षेत्र है, जो बेहद संपन्न हो और ठाकुर बहुल हो...जहां-जहां भी आप ठाकुर लोग हो, वहीं-वहीं बदहाली है...ठाकुरों की देश में क्या छवि बन गई है, ये हिंदी फिल्मों को देखकर समझा जा सकता है...ठाकुरों को हिंदी फिल्मों में अमूमन शराब और शबाब का शौक़ीन दिखाया जाता है, जो कि काफी हद तक सच भी है...ठाकुरों में ऐसे लोग गिनती के होंगे, जो शराब के आदी न हों...
पूरे देश को हरियाणा, पंजाब और पश्चिमी उत्तर प्रदेश वाले जाट ही खिला रहे हैं...थोड़ा-बहुत महाराष्ट्र के लोग खिला रहे हैं...बाकी में से अधिकतर तो अपना पेट भरने लायक ही कुछ कर लें, वही बहुत है उनके लिए...
ठाकुरों में अगर फिर वही विक्रमादित्य और महाराणा प्रताप जैसी बात आ जाए तो देश के लिए बहुत अच्छा हो...

below 1st link shows rana of dholpur are actually tomars JATs and and second link shows vikramaditya is tomar... so its clear...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dholpur

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomara_dynasty

[yashvardhan]

Dear all,vikrmaditya ki upadhi[title] 11 bhartiya rajao ne li thi.south india ke ek chalukya raja ne bhi li thi.akhir mae hemu[akbar,mugalo se panipat ka yudh] ne vikrmaditya ki upadhi ki.sabse pahle gupta king chandragupta vikrmaditya ne ye upadhi li thi.ishi ke darbar mae navratn rahte thae..M P mae 56 BC se vikram samvat chalta hae lakin jain muni kalkacharya ki story mae bataya gaya hae ki vikrmaditya ne sako ko parajit kiya tha.ye kam chandragupta vikrmaditya ne kiya tha aur ishi ke darbar mae navratn rahte thae.

[yashvardhan]

khoob kaha hai ,purane jamaane me cowards (darpok) the rajputs isi liye raja ban gaye the and bahadur jaat kheti karne lage,dont live in the dreams,itne bahadur the to do chaar riyasate rajsthan me rajputo ko dara dhamaka kar kabja kar lena chahiye tha

Thakur saheb,rajputo se pehle jato ke states hone ka pata chalta hae.Kikkan ke jato ki surveerta se tau her koi parichit tha [700 AD].Bharat mae rajput yug mana jata hae Gurjar-pratihar,pal,aur rarstkuta ke apsi yudhho se.jabki ye ancient kshatriya nahi mane jate thae.inke samant thae chalukya,chaauhan,sisodia,gahtaut,rathore adi.jato ne rajputo se gohad ki riyasat hasil ker li thi[1500 AD].fir churaman & badan singh ne mathura-bharatpur se rajput jaagirdaro ko ukhad feka aur bharatpur riyasat ki sthapna ki.bad mae surajmal ne hariyana aur west up ke kai mugal/rajput jagirdaro ko hata ker ye jagire jeet li.panjab mae bhi patiyala,nabha,jind,firojpur,kapoorthala riyasato mae se kuch musalmano aur kuch rajputo se cheeni gayi thee.

[klerajinder]

You have not read out the great history of jats inhabitation is surround DELHI, WE NOT ONLY FOUGHT WITH ALL INTRUDERS, BUT GIVE THEM A TOUGH FIGHT EVERY TIME.

[PAWANTHAKAN]

As we know that there are four main category in our social system (Kshatriya,Brahman,Vaish,Shudra).And as i think kastkar (the people who belong to kast(krishi)).So kastkar not a category that apart from Kshtriya.Some people should also be kastkar in Kshtriya.
Second=as we know we are not brahman,we are not vaish,we are not shudra.....THAN WHAT WE ARE ?Obviously we are KSHTRIYA (A category who belongs to sword,as well as krishi).So i do not see any clash betwin JAT,KSHATRIYA AND KASTKAR..................