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Thread: Research on history of Jat clans

  1. #41
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    The family record keepers are known by different names in different areas. These may be Badwa, Bhat, Jaga, Charan, Rao etc. All are same.
    Laxman Burdak

  2. #42
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    It was a complex social situation in medieval periods when people aligned with certain social groups. I compiled Jat Gotras of Pakistan. Almost all have dual linkages. Some Gotras claim Jats in some areas but at other places claim Rajput ancestry. Even Rajputs are said to descend from Brahman Gotras like Vats, Vashishyh etc. Vaishyas claim descend from Kshatriyas. It means Varna was flexible. Theoritically it shold be so as per your acts.
    Laxman Burdak

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by lrburdak View Post
    Theoritically it shold be so as per your acts.
    Burdakjee, you mean to say a chamar could become a brahman?

    Regards,

    Urmila.
    Attention seekers and attention getters are two different class of people.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by lrburdak View Post
    It was a complex social situation in medieval periods when people aligned with certain social groups. I compiled Jat Gotras of Pakistan. Almost all have dual linkages. Some Gotras claim Jats in some areas but at other places claim Rajput ancestry. Even Rajputs are said to descend from Brahman Gotras like Vats, Vashishyh etc. Vaishyas claim descend from Kshatriyas. It means Varna was flexible. Theoritically it shold be so as per your acts.
    let me extend it!!
    - dheemar/jeemar says they are descendants of rajputs..call themselves kashyap rajputs..
    - Julaha says they are descendants of Prithviraj chauhan..i have seen some julaha using chauhan sir name
    - even some jatav claims their ancestors as Jaats.............
    but who take their story??

    each and every caste of India claim their ancestors brahmins/kshatriyas..what is this hell?

    This is horrible!!..anyway, it was not so complex as made by these bhats\badwas.........that's why we have to look for foreign historians at least they talk logically.........anyway, what is your view about scythian invasion theory? Please pour your view on thread..

    http://www.jatland.com/forums/showth...gy-Vs-Genetics
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  5. #45
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    New evidence about Geela Jat Gotra

    I am now-a-days busy in scanning the Chauhan History. Right now working on [Wiki]Samantas of Chauhans[/Wiki].

    Kaka Kanha (Kanhadadeva) was uncle of Prithviraj Chauhan. Kanhadadeva was a great warrior. He had 18 sons. His descendants are in large number in Chauhans. Giriraj was son of Kaka Kanha or Kanhadadeva, whose descendants are called Geela. They are now Jats. (K. Devi Singh Mandawa, Prithviraja, p. 106).

    I just found it with reference and it clearly states that Geela are the descendants of Giriraj Chauhan son of Kaka Kanha (Kanhadadeva). It clearly states that they are Jats.

    You can read now about [Wiki]Geela[/Wiki]. This is how we are generating history of clans.
    Last edited by lrburdak; May 26th, 2011 at 10:51 PM.
    Laxman Burdak

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    ravinderjeet (May 26th, 2011)

  7. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by lrburdak View Post
    New evidence about Geela Jat Gotra

    I am now-a-days busy in scanning the Chauhan History. Right now working on Samantas of Chauhans.

    Kaka Kanha (Kanhadadeva) was uncle of Prithviraj Chauhan. Kanhadadeva was a great warrior. He had 18 sons. His descendants are in large number in Chauhans. Giriraj was son of Kaka Kanha or Kanhadadeva, whose descendants are called Geela. They are now Jats. (K. Devi Singh Mandawa, Prithviraja, p. 106).

    I just found it with reference and it clearly states that Geela are the descendants of Giriraj Chauhan son of Kaka Kanha (Kanhadadeva). It clearly states that they are Jats.

    You can read now about Geela. This is how we are generating history of clans.
    sorry for interrupting again but cann't digest it!!. This is bhat story or you got any other reference?.

    On mount abu (it happened some time between 300 AD to 700 AD), chauhans were termed as rajputs (it doesnot matter what they were before nagavanshi jats, gujjars or combinations of many other kshatriya tribe). If we see the reference of prithviraj reign..he fought two battles in 1191 and 1192 , so it was centuries after moubt abu..so there should be no doubt that prithvi raj was a rajput, hence his uncle was also a rajput ..right ?? so geela were descendants or illegitimate children (derogatory term other caste will use it for geela) of rajputs !!..
    it gives a upside down to the whole theory. all Historians working on legitimate Jat history, they agree that rajputs were offsprings of jats not vice versa..are you more inclined to brahminic version?
    Last edited by prashantacmet; May 27th, 2011 at 11:45 AM.
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  8. #47
    I have read in history books that bhats and charans did the same thing, used to sing in praise of kings. I have never came across the term "Badwa" written anywhere except Jatland. I only know them through our "Badwa" who used to come to our village every year to know about the developments in families and he used to tell family history from his writings.

    I am still a believer that there is huge difference between "Badwa" and "charan/bhat". Praising someone and keeping clan history is totally different thing so in my opinion, Badwas and Charan/Bhats can not be same. Charan/Bhats are seen very lowly and Badwas get huge respect from the community.


    Quote Originally Posted by lrburdak View Post
    The family record keepers are known by different names in different areas. These may be Badwa, Bhat, Jaga, Charan, Rao etc. All are same.
    जाट महान
    ----------
    बेगानों में वफ़ा की तलाश ना कर ‘साहिल’,
    तेरे तो अपने भी अक्सर बेवफा निकलते हैं l

  9. #48
    so called mount abu ygnaa waas heppend in 1170 AD somthing.
    :rockwhen you found a key to success,some ideot change the lock,*******BREAK THE DOOR.
    हक़ मांगने से नहीं मिलता , छिना जाता हे |
    अहिंसा कमजोरों का हथियार हे |
    पगड़ी संभाल जट्टा |
    मौत नु आंगालियाँ पे नचांदे , ते आपां जाट कुहांदे |

  10. #49
    Ravinder jeet ji, please see..

    ..in 1005CE (186 years before the Pritvi-Gauri battle) , Padmagupta mentioned about "agnikunda" theory..so whatever happened at mount abu that happened before 1005 (and all sources of this agnikunda theory says that this yagya was executed by Vashistha, here it says yagya was executed by vashistha
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnikula
    1005 CE: Padmagupta writes Navasahasanka-charita during the rule of Parmar Sindhuraj (about 995-1055) of Dhara. He mentions creation of Paramar from Agnikinda by Vashista, for the first time.[10]
    and here we go about vashistha
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vashishtha

    did not you hear about Vashistha in ramayana?..so I wonder how a person can live so long.


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnikula
    Agnikunda chronology


    • 1005 CE: Padmagupta writes Navasahasanka-charita during the rule of Parmar Sindhuraj (about 995-1055) of Dhara. He mentions creation of Paramar from Agnikinda by Vashista, for the first time.[10]


    • 1000-1055: Bhoja: no mention of Agnikunda in his copperplates or inscriptions.


    • 1042: Vasantgarh inscription mentiones Paramara origin from Agnikunda.


    • 1070-1093: Udayaditya, Udayapur prashasti mentions Paramara origin from Agnikunda.


    • uncertain date: Prithviraj Raso composed.[11] Oldest copies of do not mention the Agnikunda legend.


    • Uncertain date: Unknown text that was later consulted for Aine-Akbari.


    • Aine-Akbari by Abul Fazl(1551–1602) mentions creation of a Dhanji from an Agnikunda, somewhere in Deccan, to fight Buddhism. He comes to Malava and established his rule. When Puraraj, fifth in line from him, died childless, a Paramara is selected to succeed him.


    • uncertain date: Agnikunda legend inserted in Prithviraj Raso, where three clans, Parihar, Chalukya and Parwar are mentions as having been created from the Agnikunda.


    • Uncertain date: Agnikunda legend in Bhavishya Purana. It mentions four clans Paramar, Chauhan, Chalukya and Parihar were created to annihilate the Buddhists during the time of Ashoka.[12]


    • 1832: Tod presents his theory that the Agnikunda sympolizes elevation of Huns etc. to kshatriyahood, and thus all the Rajaputs are descendants of central Asians like Huns.


    • 1954: Todd's view is repeated by Basham in his "The wonder that was India". By now the view becomes accepted.
    .so atleast 4-5 ancestors of prithviraj were chauhan rajputs not simply chauhans. ...

    Let me explain again..this site is being stuffed with same derogatory history of us that was told by brahmins..we are trying to get away from this.do you think Jats are offsprings of rajputs..does anyone get a life from agnikunda?..dahiyas were originated from bones of dhadhichi....?..
    Last edited by prashantacmet; May 27th, 2011 at 03:29 PM.
    Become more and more innocent, less knowledgeable and more childlike. Take life as fun - because that's precisely what it is!

  11. #50
    I read somewhere the Ygnaa was conducted at Mount Abu in 1170 AD. Whatever the date was, we must consider and fix the start of the Rajput clan from the day of Ygnaa . Earlier to that all were Jats.And all these Bhaat stories , we can use for research and references and fixing of dates for incidents.these Bhaat were like aadhunik itihaaskaar ( jiski khaawe baakli uske gaawe geet).
    :rockwhen you found a key to success,some ideot change the lock,*******BREAK THE DOOR.
    हक़ मांगने से नहीं मिलता , छिना जाता हे |
    अहिंसा कमजोरों का हथियार हे |
    पगड़ी संभाल जट्टा |
    मौत नु आंगालियाँ पे नचांदे , ते आपां जाट कुहांदे |

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    prashantacmet (May 27th, 2011)

  13. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by ravinderjeet View Post
    I read somewhere the Ygnaa was conducted at Mount Abu in 1170 AD. Whatever the date was, we must consider and fix the start of the Rajput clan from the day of Ygnaa . Earlier to that all were Jats.And all these Bhaat stories , we can use for research and references and fixing of dates for incidents.these Bhaat were like aadhunik itihaaskaar ( jiski khaawe baakli uske gaawe geet).
    Other kshatriyas clans, apart from jats also, merged in rajputs as yadavas, gujjars, kambojas etc. But the irony is there is no surety about the date of that yagya.
    Last edited by prashantacmet; May 27th, 2011 at 05:09 PM.
    Become more and more innocent, less knowledgeable and more childlike. Take life as fun - because that's precisely what it is!

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    ravinderjeet (May 27th, 2011)

  15. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by prashantacmet View Post
    Other kshatriyas clans, apart from jats also, merged in rajputs as yadavas, gujjars, kambojas etc. But the irony there is no surety about the date of that yagya.
    मेरे कई राजपूत दोस्त हैं ,उनकी लुगाई लड़दी हान अर ऊँ भी बात-बातां में दुसृयाँ ने नीच ज़ात की बताया करें | जब मन्ने बुझी तो बेरा पाट्टया अक इनमे कोए लगभग २०० जातियां सामिल सें | जो जितना पाछे शामिल होया वो उतना नीच मान्या गया | चार गोत के रजपूत जो यग में शामिल हो कें सब तें पहलम राजपूत बने थे वे सारयां में ऊंचे माने जाँ सें |
    :rockwhen you found a key to success,some ideot change the lock,*******BREAK THE DOOR.
    हक़ मांगने से नहीं मिलता , छिना जाता हे |
    अहिंसा कमजोरों का हथियार हे |
    पगड़ी संभाल जट्टा |
    मौत नु आंगालियाँ पे नचांदे , ते आपां जाट कुहांदे |

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  17. #53
    Nice effort sir ,it's really appreciable .............

  18. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by prashantacmet View Post
    sorry for interrupting again but cann't digest it!!. This is bhat story or you got any other reference?.

    On mount abu (it happened some time between 300 AD to 700 AD), chauhans were termed as rajputs (it doesnot matter what they were before nagavanshi jats, gujjars or combinations of many other kshatriya tribe). If we see the reference of prithviraj reign..he fought two battles in 1191 and 1192 , so it was centuries after moubt abu..so there should be no doubt that prithvi raj was a rajput, hence his uncle was also a rajput ..right ?? so geela were descendants or illegitimate children (derogatory term other caste will use it for geela) of rajputs !!..
    it gives a upside down to the whole theory. all Historians working on legitimate Jat history, they agree that rajputs were offsprings of jats not vice versa..are you more inclined to brahminic version?
    Prashantji,
    It is not a Bhat story. I have given the reference there itself i.e. K. Devi Singh Mandawa, Prithviraja, p. 106. This is a good Book on Prithviraja Chauhan. It mentions about various [Wiki]Samantas of Chauhans[/Wiki]. It also mentions some Jat Samants as well.

    We have to understand that Jats were there in Rajasthan since ancient times. Rajputs became prominent after 8the century or so. Some Jats started calling themselves Rajputs but others chose to write themselves Jats. Some became Rajputs but were using their Gotra. Gotra carries their original history.
    Last edited by lrburdak; May 31st, 2011 at 09:56 AM.
    Laxman Burdak

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  20. #55
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    History of Jaj Gotra

    We find a red entry in the list of Jat Gotras in JL Wiki about Jaj (जाज). We had no information about it. I have provided complete [Wiki]Chauhan Dynasty[/Wiki]. Info about Hammira Chahan ruler of Ranthambhor is from Dasharatha Sharma, "Early Chauhan Dynasties", Ch. XI, pp. 123-137. With Hammira ended the Chauhan kingdom of Ranthambhor. We have the famous couplet about Hammira,

    सिंह-सवन सत्पुरुष-वचन कदलन फलत इक बार |
    तिरिया-तेल हम्मीर-हठ चढ़े न दूजी बार ||

    English translation: A lioness gives birth to a cub only once; once alone is the word of a good man given; once only does a plantain bear fruit; a woman is anointed only once with oil for marriage; and once alone did Hammira give his irrevocable promise.

    Jāja, Jajā, Jajadeva, or Jajjalana, A minister and commander of Hammira of Ranthambhor - In the annals of Chauhan history, there is scarcely a name better known than that of Hammira the hathi, ruler of Ranthambhor. The fight put up by him against Ala-ud-din Khalji, the tyrannical Sultan of Delhi, with a view to protecting the neo-Muslim leaders, Muhammad Shah and his brothers, who had taken refuge at the Ranthambhor court, has inspired many a poet of Sanskrit, Prakrta, Hindi as well as Rajasthani to sing his glory and offer the incense of admiration at the shrine of his memory. Of people, whom he had favoured, many deserted him. His chief general, Ratipala, and the finance minister Dharmasimha, proved traitors. In his last fight, Hammira was accompanied by only nine warriors, of whom four were not even his co-religionists. But besides these he had at least one more follower of undoubted loyalty, the Chahamana Jaja, Jaja, Jajadeva or Jajjala who was left behind to put up a last ditch fight for Ranthambhor. [Dasharatha Sharma, Early Chauhan Dynasties, p. 134]

    The material for Jaja's life is extremely scanty. The Prakrtapingalam, a book on Prakrta prosody written some time in the fourteenth century, quotes five verses from some Apabhramsa poem dealing with Hammira's achievements. Of these two refer to Jajadeva; none, it might be noted, mentions even by name, the other ministers and generals of Hammira. This fact in itself should be testimony enough for Jajadeva's pre-eminent position in Hammira's kingdom. Had this Apabhramsa poem drawn upon by the Prakrtapailigalam come down to us, we might have received a full account of the great hero, Jaja. [Dasharatha Sharma, Early Chauhan Dynasties, p. 134]

    Now let us have evidences from Jats of Pakistan. Jajja is a Muslim Jat clan found in Pakistan. They are descendants of King Jajja of Kashmir 748-751 A.D. They are prominent in the Jutt family. There are twelve villages of the Jajja family in District Sialkot. Most of them are on the western side of Qila Suba Singh, now called Qila Kalarwala-Pasrur Road, and to the eastern side of BRB Canal. They are Jats. No other Jat clan or other landlord family is found in any of these villages except the Jajjas. Landowners are only Jajjas. Villages are Khan Jajja, Mohrikey Jajja, Ooncha Jajja, Ghanokey Jajja, Hussa Jajja, Lodhikey Jajja, Jeowali Jajja and some villages in Bahawalpur tehsil Yazman Chak 62DB, 68DB, 63DB, 89DB, etc.

    We may conclude that Chauhans included varios Jat Gotras and this Jaj was non other than from whom Jaj or Jajda gotra started. You can read here about [Wiki]Jajra[/Wiki]
    Last edited by lrburdak; May 31st, 2011 at 10:21 AM.
    Laxman Burdak

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  22. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by lrburdak View Post
    Prashantji,
    It is not a Bhat story. I have given the reference there itself i.e. K. Devi Singh Mandawa, Prithviraja, p. 106. This is a good Book on Prithviraja Chauhan. It mentions about various [Wiki]Samantas of Chauhans[/Wiki]. It also mentions some Jat Samants as well.

    We have to understand that Jats were there in Rajasthan since ancient times. Rajputs became prominent after 8the century or so. Some Jats started calling themselves Rajputs but others chose to write themselves Jats. Some became Rajputs but were using their Gotra. Gotra carries their original history.
    I agree what you written above.But this explanation only proves that some jats became rajputs but what about vice versa..some rajputs also became Jats? (as you written about Geela gotra). do you think this was a two way transformation..first some Jats became rajputs, later on some rajputs became Jats? For example sidhu/brar, randhawa , geela, lakra etc
    Become more and more innocent, less knowledgeable and more childlike. Take life as fun - because that's precisely what it is!

  23. #57
    I know some jats who say they were Rajputs a few generations before. They dont know why their ancestors became Jats but their gotras are common among Jats like Chahar.
    जागरूक ती अज्ञानी नहीं बनाया जा सके, स्वाभिमानी का अपमान नहीं करा जा सके , निडर ती दबाया नहीं जा सके भाई नुए सामाजिक क्रांति एक बार आ जे तो उसती बदला नहीं जा सके ---ज्याणी जाट।

    दोस्त हो या दुश्मन, जाट दोनुआ ने १०० साल ताईं याद राखा करे

  24. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by VipinJyani View Post
    I know some jats who say they were Rajputs a few generations before. They dont know why their ancestors became Jats but their gotras are common among Jats like Chahar.
    this is the reason other castes say derogatory remarks about us?? I have not heard any gujjar clan claiming that they are offsprings of rajputs ..they always say that all 'agnikula" rajputs are originated from gujjars..and you can see that reference in wikipedia too.....so now the question is 'are some jats really offsprings of rajputs or we simply believed some Bhat stories"..i don't know..
    Last edited by prashantacmet; June 1st, 2011 at 03:00 PM.
    Become more and more innocent, less knowledgeable and more childlike. Take life as fun - because that's precisely what it is!

  25. #59
    What u mean by illegimate sons? I see no logic in that.

    Jat is an ethnic group where as Rajput is not. There are a few churas as well who use Chauhan and claim to be Rajput same way some low caste use gorta like Gill etc who were originally not Jats.

    I never heard anyone saying this illegimate thing except you. Moreover be careful when using wikipedia. Its a secondary source not primary.
    Last edited by VirJ; June 1st, 2011 at 03:04 PM.
    जागरूक ती अज्ञानी नहीं बनाया जा सके, स्वाभिमानी का अपमान नहीं करा जा सके , निडर ती दबाया नहीं जा सके भाई नुए सामाजिक क्रांति एक बार आ जे तो उसती बदला नहीं जा सके ---ज्याणी जाट।

    दोस्त हो या दुश्मन, जाट दोनुआ ने १०० साल ताईं याद राखा करे

  26. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by VipinJyani View Post
    What u mean by illegimate sons? I see no logic in that.

    Jat is an ethnic group where as Rajput is not. There are a few churas as well who use Chauhan and claim to be Rajput same way some low caste use gorta like Gill etc who were originally not Jats.

    I never heard anyone saying this illegimate thing except you. Moreover be careful when using wikipedia. Its a secondary source not primary.
    these gotraa and cast change with the time and the social stature of any cast are clan accordingly.recent example is of dograas ,these people are originali gadriyaas but now a days ,since last 50 years ,they started claiming themselves rajput.
    :rockwhen you found a key to success,some ideot change the lock,*******BREAK THE DOOR.
    हक़ मांगने से नहीं मिलता , छिना जाता हे |
    अहिंसा कमजोरों का हथियार हे |
    पगड़ी संभाल जट्टा |
    मौत नु आंगालियाँ पे नचांदे , ते आपां जाट कुहांदे |

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