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Thread: Jaat Ka Dharam Kya Hai ?

  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by VipinJyani View Post
    So you are saying "We should be scared of GOD but shouldnt be too scared"?! I dont understand it. Either you believe in GOD or you dont. Otherwise it looks like saying " I will remember GOD when I am in trouble. All this is good but it still doesnt make a case to convert.
    you misconstrued what is written, jo kisi bhi religion ko ghana support kare ya koi uski khilafat jyada kare vo dono ek baat hi hain that is what i meant.
    Khudi ko kar buland itna ke har taqder se pehle
    Khuda bande se ye poche bata teri raza kia hai

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  3. #82
    Ok I thought by the lines :बहुत डरना और bilkul न डरना एक bimari के लक्षण हैं: you mean being scared of GOD.

    I think, may be, you are tring to say " Extremism of any sort is bad"? otherwise either you support your religion or you dont.
    जागरूक ती अज्ञानी नहीं बनाया जा सके, स्वाभिमानी का अपमान नहीं करा जा सके , निडर ती दबाया नहीं जा सके भाई नुए सामाजिक क्रांति एक बार आ जे तो उसती बदला नहीं जा सके ---ज्याणी जाट।

    दोस्त हो या दुश्मन, जाट दोनुआ ने १०० साल ताईं याद राखा करे

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  5. #83
    भाई इस लेख को शांत भाव से पढो अपने आप समझ आ जायेगा की लेखक क्या समझाना चाहते हैं इसमें | लेखक ने यह भी नहीं कहा की आप सिख धर्म ही अपनाओ उन्होंने सभी धर्मो के तर्क भी दिए हैं बस इन सभी धर्मो में लेखक को सिक्ख धर्म उचित लगा और क्यों लगा यह बताया हैं | हिन्दू धर्म की खिलाफत क्यों की हैं उसके तर्क भी दिए हैं इस लेख में | हिन्दू धर्म के ग्रंथो पुराणों में जाटों को क्या क्या कहा हैं वो लेखक ने इस लेख में बताया हैं | और यह हकीक़त भी हैं जो भाई हुक्का पीने के शौकीन हैं वो इस भेदभाव को गाँव में अच्छी तरह से देख सकते हैं | हुक्का ही नहीं ऐसे कई भेदभाव हैं जो आज भी हमारे साथ किये जाते हैं | लेखक ने मंथन करने को कहा हैं की जहा अपनी कौम के प्रति लोगो का ऐसा रवैया हैं वहा रहना कितना उचित हैं |
    भगवान खुदा को तो रहने दो वो तो बहुत ऊपर की बात हैं पहले जो दिख रहा हैं उसे तो संवार लो |
    Last edited by raka; August 8th, 2011 at 12:54 PM.
    " जाट हारा नहीं कभी रण में तीर तोप तलवारों से ,
    जाट तो हारा हैं , गद्दारों से दरबारों से
    |"

    " इस कौम का ईलाही दुखड़ा किसे सुनाऊ ?
    डर हैं के इसके गम में घुल घुल के न मर जाऊँ || "
    ...........................चौ.छोटूराम ओहल्याण

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  7. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by SALURAM View Post
    यहाँ कुछ लोग किसी खास धर्म को बदनाम कर रहे हैं. यह ऐसा ही हैं जैसा कुछ समय पहले धर्म परिवर्तन की कोशिश की जा रही थी.
    यह तो आतंकवादियों की साजिश से भी ज्यादा खतरनाक हैं. यह जाटलैंड वेब साईट बनाने वालों का उद्देश्य जाटों को एक करना रहा होगा लेकिन उनकी इस कोशिश को यह कुछ मुठ्ठी भर लोग नाकामयाब करने की कोशिश कर रहे हैं.
    मेरे ख्याल से राजस्थान का जाट तो इस हिन्दू धर्म में राजस्थान के जाटों के साथ हुए सामाजिक अत्याचार को अच्छी तरह से समझ और समझा सकता हैं | राजस्थान में तो जाट व उसकी समान जाति की औरते अपने घाघरो में नाड़ा भी मुंझ की ज्योव्ड़ी (रस्सी) का पहनती थी उन्हें सूत का नाड़ा पहनने का अधिकार भी नहीं था यो तो भला हो महाराजा जवाहर सिंह का जिसने यो अधिकार दिलाया | राजस्थान में जाट को छोटी जाति की नजर से देखा जाता था | कभी ब्रह्मण से अपनी जन्मपत्री बनवाना सालूराम जी देखना उसमे वो आपका वर्ण क्या लिखता हैं |
    और आपकी इस साईट पे भी जाटों का बंटवारा किया हुआ हैं | जाति और धर्म में बहुत फर्क होता हैं |
    " जाट हारा नहीं कभी रण में तीर तोप तलवारों से ,
    जाट तो हारा हैं , गद्दारों से दरबारों से
    |"

    " इस कौम का ईलाही दुखड़ा किसे सुनाऊ ?
    डर हैं के इसके गम में घुल घुल के न मर जाऊँ || "
    ...........................चौ.छोटूराम ओहल्याण

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  9. #85
    Brother, can you post the ful essay written by sh hawa singh, is he available to answer our questions or can he take part in the discussion,

  10. #86
    कर्नल साहब इस लेख के शुरू में चौ.हवा सिंह जी का मोबाइल नंबर दिया हुआ हैं आप उनसे बेहिचक सवाल जवाब कर सकते हैं |
    " जाट हारा नहीं कभी रण में तीर तोप तलवारों से ,
    जाट तो हारा हैं , गद्दारों से दरबारों से
    |"

    " इस कौम का ईलाही दुखड़ा किसे सुनाऊ ?
    डर हैं के इसके गम में घुल घुल के न मर जाऊँ || "
    ...........................चौ.छोटूराम ओहल्याण

  11. #87
    Thanks Brother, Is this essay complete please, anyway, I shall speak to him shortly, once again thanks
    Last edited by Fateh; August 9th, 2011 at 09:55 AM.

  12. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by VipinJyani View Post
    On the one hand you are saying you dont know whose political advantage I am talking about on the other hand you are assuming I am talking about writer . I have deep respect for Sangwan ji but that doesnt mean that I have to agree to all his views.

    Anyway, I was talking about the political advantage of the whole Jat community. An advantage of being part of big religious group who would be dominated by JATS.

    But again I dont approve converting to another sect just because of this. Conversion ideally should only happen if you really believe in the other sect's ideas and philosophy and you are not satisfied with your. May be its just me other might think differently.
    Vipin, me not strong like you when it comes to articulation of thoughts.

    I dont want to digress from the topic. In the next posts i think lies answer to your conversion of sect question.
    Khudi ko kar buland itna ke har taqder se pehle
    Khuda bande se ye poche bata teri raza kia hai

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  14. #89
    Its all good brother.

    I understand why there are talks about moving away from Hinduism. Sikhism itself was started due to the differences with Pandits and Maulvis. But there are lot of other aspects which need to be considered.
    जागरूक ती अज्ञानी नहीं बनाया जा सके, स्वाभिमानी का अपमान नहीं करा जा सके , निडर ती दबाया नहीं जा सके भाई नुए सामाजिक क्रांति एक बार आ जे तो उसती बदला नहीं जा सके ---ज्याणी जाट।

    दोस्त हो या दुश्मन, जाट दोनुआ ने १०० साल ताईं याद राखा करे

  15. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by raka View Post
    मेरे ख्याल से राजस्थान का जाट तो इस हिन्दू धर्म में राजस्थान के जाटों के साथ हुए सामाजिक अत्याचार को अच्छी तरह से समझ और समझा सकता हैं | राजस्थान में तो जाट व उसकी समान जाति की औरते अपने घाघरो में नाड़ा भी मुंझ की ज्योव्ड़ी (रस्सी) का पहनती थी उन्हें सूत का नाड़ा पहनने का अधिकार भी नहीं था यो तो भला हो महाराजा जवाहर सिंह का जिसने यो अधिकार दिलाया | राजस्थान में जाट को छोटी जाति की नजर से देखा जाता था | कभी ब्रह्मण से अपनी जन्मपत्री बनवाना सालूराम जी देखना उसमे वो आपका वर्ण क्या लिखता हैं |
    और आपकी इस साईट पे भी जाटों का बंटवारा किया हुआ हैं | जाति और धर्म में बहुत फर्क होता हैं |
    Raka, social discrimination, place in the society etc are not only due to religion but mainly depends on the people who control the society, economical and physical strength( unity) of the community, There is no difference between jats of Rajesthan and jats of other states except the ownership of land and since they didnot have land their economic condition was poor in comperision to Rajputs which is not caste but a class of soldiers individuals came from many communities to join the forces of various rulers and lateron they became a seperate class, Pandits ofcourse had been controlling the Indian society since ages due to their superior mental ability and unity. I donot think, the religion is completely responsible for status/place in the society and if so than why not we declare jat a religion so that we have top place, total control, our people will get job of looking after our religious places, we can formulate our own religious practices/rituals etc
    Last edited by Fateh; August 9th, 2011 at 10:34 AM.

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  17. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by Fateh View Post
    Raka, social discrimination, place in the society etc are not only due to religion but mainly depends on the people who control the society, economical and physical strength( unity) of the community, There is no difference between jats of Rajesthan and jats of other states except the ownership of land and since they didnot have land their economic condition was poor in comperision to Rajputs which is not caste but a class of soldiers individuals came from many communities to join the forces of various rulers and lateron they became a seperate class, Pandits ofcourse had been controlling the Indian society since ages due to their superior mental ability and unity. I donot think, the religion is completely responsible for status/place in the society and if so than why not we declare jat a religion so that we have top place, total control, our people will get job of looking after our religious places, we can formulate our own religious practices/rituals etc
    मैंने किसी भी प्रांत के जाट को उचा या नीचा नहीं कहा हैं | मैंने तो सिर्फ राजस्थान के जाट के शोषण के बारे में बताया हैं | मेरी दादी राजस्थान की थी इसलिए मैं वहा के जाटों के बारे में अच्छी तरह से वाकिफ हु | जिसका सामाजिक स्तर नीचा हो जाता हैं उसका फिर हर स्तर पर शोषण होता हैं | और राजस्थान में जाटों का यह नीचा स्तर हिन्दू धर्म के ठेकेदारों ने इसी धर्म के रिवाजो का सहारा ले कर किया था आपने शायद इतिहास में पढ़ा भी होगा माउन्ट आबू यज्ञ के बारे में |
    " जाट हारा नहीं कभी रण में तीर तोप तलवारों से ,
    जाट तो हारा हैं , गद्दारों से दरबारों से
    |"

    " इस कौम का ईलाही दुखड़ा किसे सुनाऊ ?
    डर हैं के इसके गम में घुल घुल के न मर जाऊँ || "
    ...........................चौ.छोटूराम ओहल्याण

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  19. #92
    [QUOTE=raka;274589]मैंने किसी भी प्रांत के जाट को उचा या नीचा नहीं कहा हैं | मैंने तो सिर्फ राजस्थान के जाट के शोषण के बारे में बताया हैं | मेरी दादी राजस्थान की थी इसलिए मैं वहा के जाटों के बारे में अच्छी तरह से वाकिफ हु | जिसका सामाजिक स्तर नीचा हो जाता हैं उसका फिर हर स्तर पर शोषण होता हैं | और राजस्थान में जाटों का यह नीचा स्तर हिन्दू धर्म के ठेकेदारों ने इसी धर्म के रिवाजो का सहारा ले कर किया था आपने शायद इतिहास में पढ़ा भी होगा माउन्ट आबू यज्ञ के बारे में |[/QUOT

    Brother, neither you said so nor I have accused you for the same, I suggest please read about HINDUISM little more, than open books of anciant Indian history, you get some material and most important is interpertation by an individual which we all differ, so lets not waste our time on these religious matters as such I consider all religious matters bit harmful for the society, thanks

  20. #93
    Commandant Hawa Singh has concluded that Jats should follow Sikhism. However, he has forgotten that most of the Sikhs are non vegetarian. He himself says and it is a fact that Jats are vegetarian. Moreover, it is understood that Guru Nanak himself told his followers to adopt non vegetarianism. So if Jats adopt a religion which does not propogate vegetarianism than it will be against the basic instinct of vegetarianism of Jats. I am of the opinion that since Hindu religion has so much variety and tolerance that it can accommodate most of the prevalent customs and Jats are at present part a parcel of Hindu religion Jats should and will continue to be Hindus and any discussion in this regard may not be fruitful.

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  22. #94
    I agree with you

  23. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by HPMalikDaboda View Post
    Commandant Hawa Singh has concluded that Jats should follow Sikhism. However, he has forgotten that most of the Sikhs are non vegetarian. He himself says and it is a fact that Jats are vegetarian. Moreover, it is understood that Guru Nanak himself told his followers to adopt non vegetarianism. So if Jats adopt a religion which does not propogate vegetarianism than it will be against the basic instinct of vegetarianism of Jats. I am of the opinion that since Hindu religion has so much variety and tolerance that it can accommodate most of the prevalent customs and Jats are at present part a parcel of Hindu religion Jats should and will continue to be Hindus and any discussion in this regard may not be fruitful.
    Aap Ki Is Baat Se Main Bilkul Bhi Sehmat Nahi Hoon Malik Sahab, Guru Nanak Sahib Ne Kabhi Bhi Meat Khane Ke Liye Nahi Kaha... Woh To Sadhu The, Ulta Unhone Musalmano Par Comment Kiya Tha Jo Meat Khate The, "Maas Khaane Kare Niwaz". Iska Matlab Hai Ki Maas Khate Ho Aur Namaaz Ada Karte Ho.

    Woh Ek Alag Baat Hai Jab Guru Gobind Singh Ji Ne Talwar Uthai Thi Burai Or Mughali Atyachar Ke Khilaf. Gurdware Mein Maas Ko Apvitr Mana Jaata Hai, Par Shashtar Ko Pavitra for self and society defense.

    Baaki Aur To Maas Khane Ke Bahane Bana Rakhe Hain Logo Ne... Kisi Guru Ne Nog-Veg Ko Support Nahi Kiya Malik Sahab... Koi Saboot Hi Nahi Hai...
    ੴ एक तो जाट उप्पर ते सरदार

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  25. #96

    My religionis JAT

    Dear All,

    Let me ask a different question to worthy members. The question is; JAT ka kya Dharam hona chahiye? Let us for a moment forget as to whether we are Hindus or not or followed Buddhism. I don’t claim to be a very learned person but I am certain of one thing and that is that JATS never believed in the Hindu religion as practiced by the discriminating Brahmins.

    There is no logical and conclusive written material available that suggests that JATS were followers of Buddhism or Hinduism as practised by Brahmins. Our traits and core value systems suggest that we never followed any religion, never believed in idol worship and even did not support any particular sect, whether an offshoot of Hinduism or otherwise. Whatever seemed fair to the land tilling JAT was accepted. That a village was a republic of sorts and self sufficient can’t be denied. An undeniable fact is that JATS, whatever religion they may be following, occupy the most cultivable and prosperous regions of the world. This is a tribute to our ancestors’ bravery and chivalry. Whether JATS came to India from Central Asia or went from India to other areas should not matter.

    A true JAT believes in fair play, impartiality, competition and justice. He is hardworking and honest. If these parameters are met then he is law abiding and follows rules of the state / nation. He is respectful to the fairer sex, believes in ‘Bhaichara’ and is large hearted. He will never follow leader of a religious sect blindly. A true JAT can never enjoy idol worship, though he would occasionally bow in front of a symbolic temple erected for his forefathers. A JAT can never be a spendthrift and may even be considered miser by others. However, he can be a great showoff too! JAT Bheli de de, ganda na de!

    I find no other community that can lead their lives in as simple a manner as JATS. Frankly speaking and without trying to argue with more learned members, I have never considered my self to be following a religion. While filling up the columns of an application, I have to write ‘Hindu’ because I can’t write JAT. As an individual I have decided that my religion is JAT. Period!

    Best regards,

    JS Malik
    JAT BALWAN, JAI BHAGWAN

    (Ein Volk - Ein Reich - Ein Fuhrer)

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  27. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by jagmohan View Post
    Dear All,

    Let me ask a different question to worthy members. The question is; JAT ka kya Dharam hona chahiye? Let us for a moment forget as to whether we are Hindus or not or followed Buddhism. I don’t claim to be a very learned person but I am certain of one thing and that is that JATS never believed in the Hindu religion as practiced by the discriminating Brahmins.

    There is no logical and conclusive written material available that suggests that JATS were followers of Buddhism or Hinduism as practised by Brahmins. Our traits and core value systems suggest that we never followed any religion, never believed in idol worship and even did not support any particular sect, whether an offshoot of Hinduism or otherwise. Whatever seemed fair to the land tilling JAT was accepted. That a village was a republic of sorts and self sufficient can’t be denied. An undeniable fact is that JATS, whatever religion they may be following, occupy the most cultivable and prosperous regions of the world. This is a tribute to our ancestors’ bravery and chivalry. Whether JATS came to India from Central Asia or went from India to other areas should not matter.

    A true JAT believes in fair play, impartiality, competition and justice. He is hardworking and honest. If these parameters are met then he is law abiding and follows rules of the state / nation. He is respectful to the fairer sex, believes in ‘Bhaichara’ and is large hearted. He will never follow leader of a religious sect blindly. A true JAT can never enjoy idol worship, though he would occasionally bow in front of a symbolic temple erected for his forefathers. A JAT can never be a spendthrift and may even be considered miser by others. However, he can be a great showoff too! JAT Bheli de de, ganda na de!

    I find no other community that can lead their lives in as simple a manner as JATS. Frankly speaking and without trying to argue with more learned members, I have never considered my self to be following a religion. While filling up the columns of an application, I have to write ‘Hindu’ because I can’t write JAT. As an individual I have decided that my religion is JAT. Period!

    Best regards,

    JS Malik
    Brother, To me you are more than learned, because you have gone a step ahead or I say you have taken the most important step by adopting what ever you have learnt in life into your thinking and act and you have become an educated person in real sense, Brothers on the forum may pardon me, WE people need to be educated after learning,

    The whole world calls Hindu A RELIGION, But I still feel it is not a religion, The Brahaman follow sanatan Dharam, we are hindu irrespective of following sanatan practices may be some or practices of some other religion or may not be following any religion.

    I fully agree with you that jats have different attitude towards life, different way of life and different characterstics, keeping that in view if religion is necessary than our religion should be JAT.

  28. The Following User Says Thank You to Fateh For This Useful Post:

    thukrela (August 15th, 2011)

  29. #98
    the Jat has always followed gita!
    .
    .
    .
    how ?


    because, even him not being aware about it, its a part of his conscience

    kudos to the great jat!

  30. #99
    चूंकि अब ये साबित हो चुका है कि सिख धर्म पूरी तरह से गैर-जाट खत्री पंजाबियों द्वारा स्थापित किया गया धर्म है और सभी 10 के 10 सिख गुरु गैर-जाट खत्री पंजाबी थे, इसलिए जो भी जाट सिख धर्म को मानता है वो एक तरह से खत्री पंजाबियों की जय-जयकार कर रहा है. ऐसे में यदि कोई जाट सिख खत्री पंजाबियों में बैठता है तो उसे मानसिक प्रताड़ना झेलनी पड़ सकती है. यदि उसे खत्री पंजाबी अपना गुलाम कह देंगे तो फिर उस जाट सिख के पास क्या जवाब होगा? क्या जाट दूसरों की गुलामी करने के लिए है? सिख बनकर वो एक तरह से खत्री पंजाबियों के नीचे आ गया है...
    सभी सिख जाटों को चाहिए कि वे खत्री पंजाबियों की गुलामी बंद करें और यदि खुद को हिंदू कहलाना न चाहें तो कोई बात नहीं...वे हनुमान को अपना गुरु मानना शुरू कर दें. हनुमान का न कोई जन्मस्थान बता सकता है और न ही धर्म...इस प्रकार हनुमान को मानने वाले जाटों को कोई भी मानसिक रूप से प्रताड़ित नहीं कर सकेगा...हनुमान को तो वैसे भी एक जाट ही माना जाता है, इसलिए जाटों को हनुमान को अपना इष्ट मानने में कोई आपत्ति नहीं होनी चाहिए...
    तो आ जाओ खुद को सिख मानने वाले बच्चो...जोर से नारा लगाओ...
    जय बजरंग बली...जय हनुमान...

  31. The Following User Says Thank You to upendersingh For This Useful Post:

    rana1 (August 16th, 2011)

  32. #100
    quote Jagmohan....... .................................................. ...........................Jat Dharam...






    Great Post Brother,


    I usally avoid these discussions as some Dharmic person comes and starts arguing without any supporting evidence and discussion turns ugly sooner or later.However I could not resist congratulating You as you sound so close to truth.


    Commndt. Hawa Singh Sangwan ji discussed this article with me before posting it and I suggested same that our religion should simply be called as as Jat religion and we should not suggest some other alternative ,however he disagreed and gave his reasons ,I gave mine and we agreed to disagree on this.

    This topic must be discussed much more seriously and one must substantiate one's view with some kind of evidence Historical or scientific .(ie to say that man or some creature with monkey like tails existed and interacted with humans is fit for Humor sections rather such serious discussions.)
    Last edited by narenderkharb; August 19th, 2011 at 07:51 PM.

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