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How far back the records at Haridwar, etc go? Have this avenue ever been pursued?Originally Posted by DrRajpalSingh
How far back the records at Haridwar, etc go? Have this avenue ever been pursued?
As far as european component in concerned in haryana/UP jaat, I found this on harappan ancestory project. i guess you weree refering to this
http://www.harappadna.org/2011/11/ad...p0181-hrp0190/
Become more and more innocent, less knowledgeable and more childlike. Take life as fun - because that's precisely what it is!
Yes, but the last one is not from there. There are lot many more tools out there and the information I gave you is more recent.
.
Check Anthrogenica.
Eurogenes EUtest V2 K15 Admixture Proportions
Sarao Jatt from Patiala showing Hariyana and Rajsthani Jatt like results.
Eurogenes EUtest V2 K15 Admixture Proportions
Population North_Sea 12.17% Atlantic 1.32% Baltic 4.53% Eastern_Euro 11.57% West_Med - West_Asian 24.57% East_Med 1.64% Red_Sea 0.23% South_Asian 40.87% Southeast_Asian - Siberian - Amerindian 2.09% Oceanian - Northeast_African - Sub-Saharan 1.01%
Punjabi Jatt from further north west.
Population North_Sea 6.00% Atlantic 6.00% Baltic 1.63% Eastern_Euro 7.94% West_Med - West_Asian 29.36% East_Med 0.39% Red_Sea - South_Asian 47.13% Southeast_Asian - Siberian 1.11% Amerindian 0.41% Oceanian - Northeast_African - Sub-Saharan -
Please note the European component is ancient one, it is not from British, etc.
Last edited by paulgill; May 29th, 2015 at 12:10 AM.
lrburdak (May 29th, 2015), prashantacmet (May 28th, 2015), sukhbirhooda (October 14th, 2015)
Not so far.
But on the one hand in your earlier post you say written words even on inscriptions are no history and on the other you suggest us to rely upon records of reed and ink kept by Pandas at Gangaghat. What to do, suggest !
History is best when created, better when re-constructed and worst when invented.
"Not so far.
But on the one hand in your earlier post you say written words even on inscriptions are no history and on the other you suggest us to rely upon records of reed and ink kept by Pandas at Gangaghat. What to do, suggest !"
You seem to be interested in such information, so the suggestion was made. One does not have to believe all that the Pandas have written down, but, as with all the information from all other sources, why not look into this source too, there might be some useful information there also?
Why I prefer the genetic information is because it eliminates all the guess work. One might be known as an Indo Aryan and the information from all sources may be definitely pointing to that, but if the person is later proven genetically to be of the lineage of Panya or Onga, of what use all such information then be?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindu_...s_on_Microfilm
Records on Microfilm
Starting around 1977,[3] Hindu genealogy records were microfilmed, and later housed at the Genealogical Society of Utah (GSU), USA since 1981, other places in these records having records of Hindu families are Kurukshetra, Pehowa, Chintpurni, Jawalapur, and Jawalamukhi [8][9][10] The Genealogical Society of Utah currently restricts online access to the Hindu genealogy records to members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church)[citation needed].
http://genealogysstar.blogspot.ca/20...1194-2012.html
Last edited by paulgill; May 28th, 2015 at 02:36 PM.
prashantacmet (May 28th, 2015)
In the records of Pandas of Haridwar, Gaya etc the names and dates are correct. So we can trust to that extent.
Laxman Burdak
DrRajpalSingh (October 13th, 2015), paulgill (May 30th, 2015), sukhbirhooda (October 14th, 2015)
Burdak Sahib, I have been informed by someone that some Janghu gotra Jats in Rajasthan have joined Bisnoi sect ! Could you verify the veracity of the information !
History is best when created, better when re-constructed and worst when invented.
Rajpalji you are right. Janghu are very much in the Bisnoi sect. You can see on Jatland here - http://www.jatland.com/home/Amrita_Devi
363 Bishnois became martyrs for protecting Khejri tree. Out of them 2 were Janghu.
Amrita Devi (Beniwal) sacrificed her life along with her three daughters viz. Asu, Ratni and Bhagu in year 1730 to save green trees being felled by the Maharaja of Jodhpur at a place known as Khejarli in Marwar, Rajasthan. Along with her more than 363 other Bishnois, died saving the Khejri trees.
Three Hundred and Sixty Three (363) Bishnois, young and old, men and women, married and unmarried, rich and poor had already become martyrs. Gotra wise number of these martyrs was as under: Achra (1), Badaderi (1), Badiyani (1), Chotiya (1), Degipal (1), Dudan (1), Geela (1), Goyal (1), Janwar (1), Jewlia (1), Jhuria (1), Kalirani (1), Khavi (1), Khichar (1), Kupasiya (1), Lamba (1), Maal (1), Ranwa (1), Sigar (1), Tandi (1), Vasu (1), Adina (2), Bhadiawas (2), Bola (2), Jhangu (2), Manju (2), Punia (2), Thalod (2), Bhanwala (3), Burdak (3), Chahar (3), Dhatarwal (3), Potalia (3), Rahad (3), Siyol (3), Bhadia (4), Dhayal (4), Isram (4), Karhwasra (4), Bhangarwas (5), Dukiya (5), Khava (6), Khileri (6), Lol (6), Nain (6), Sahu (6), Sinwar (6), Dhaka (8), Dara (9), Dudi (10), Kaswan (10), Khod (10), Khokhar (10), Panwar (10), Asiagh (13), Not clear (22), Jani (15), Saran (18), Babal (22), Beniwal (25), Bhadu (26), Godara (37)
Laxman Burdak
op1955 (October 17th, 2015)
Rajpal Ji
In Rajasthan, Janghu Gotra people can be found in Jat as well as Bishnoi Sect. Janghu Gotra is very common ( Both Jat and Biishnoi) in Hanumangarh and Sri Ganganagar Distt.
All the followers of Guru Jambeshwar ( Founder of Bishnoi Samaj ) were Jats. Guru Jambeshwar asked his followers to obey all the ( 20+9 ) principles he taught and the followers who followed those 29 principles became Bishnoi. ( 20+9 = Bish + Noi )
As all of his followers were Jats so here is the statistics : All the Bishnoi Gotras are Jat Gotras but Jat Gotras may or may not Bishnoi Gotras.
It's better to be alone than in a bad company.
DrRajpalSingh (October 17th, 2015), lrburdak (October 17th, 2015), op1955 (October 17th, 2015)
Thanks Vijay Singh ji for the information. I will try to contact these people.
History is best when created, better when re-constructed and worst when invented.
vijay (October 17th, 2015)
The etymology offered is interesting-bis +nau. Can we derive the word from Bshnu (Vishnu in Sanskrit) which we find used for naming persons, places and things so extensively throughout ages?
vijay (October 17th, 2015)
Sir, I am not sure about the Religious connection with Lord Vishnu or Bshnu. What i posted here is just my first hand knowledge as i have so many Bishnoi friends. I read all the 29 Principles written in a Bishnoi Dharamshala. There are 20 Principles and 9 Sub-Principles making a total of 29.
Religiously, almost all the Bishnoi people are devotee of Hanuman Ji.
One more interesting fact, they always prefer number 29 whether its their Car Registration number, Mobile Number and so on.
Last edited by vijay; October 17th, 2015 at 09:57 PM.
It's better to be alone than in a bad company.
DrRajpalSingh (October 18th, 2015), lrburdak (October 19th, 2015)
Rapal ji
you can find jangu gotra bishnois in haryana also.Jangu bishnoi lives in hisar,fatehabad and sirsa distt.There is a villege Badopal in
fatehabad distt which is famous for its rivalry between jangu and godara gotra bishnois.
thanks
DrRajpalSingh (October 18th, 2015), vijay (October 17th, 2015)
We have page on Jatland - http://www.jatland.com/home/Vishnoi
Vishnoi (विश्नोई) Bishnoi (बिश्नोई)[1] [2] is a sect whose founder Jhambaji lived towards the end of the 15th century.
They are basically Jats of various clans. Those who accepted the 29 principles of Guru Jambheshwar were called Vishnoi. [3]
29 precepts
Originally the Bishnois were opted for 20 rules of nature protection firstly and after that 9 more rules were opted by them so they called 'Beesnoi' not 'Vishnoi' as they are written now in writing or in books of many type as a reference of caste or clan. It is a well known fact that after conversion the Jats of India were called another caste likewise- Sikkh, Jasnathi (Nath), Vishnoi, Dadupanthi, Ramsnehi, Ganwaria (Sellers) etc.
According to H.A. Rose[4], The 29 precepts given by him for the guidance of his followers are as follows : —
- Tis din sutak—pānch roz ratwanti nāri
- Sera karo shnān — sil — santokh — suchh pyāri
- Pāni — bāni — idhni — itnd lijyo chhān.
- Dayā — dharm hirde dharo — garu batāi jān
- Chori — nindya — jhuth — barjya bād na kariyo koe
- Amal— tamāku — bhang — lil dur hi tyāgo
- Mad — mās se dekhke dur hi bhāgo.
- Amar rakhāo thāt — bail tani nā bāho
- Amāshya barat — runkh lilo na ghāo.
- Hom jap samādh pujā — bāsh baikunthi pāo
- Untis dharm ki ākhri garu batāi soe
References
- Pāhal doe par chāvya jisko nam Bishnoi hoe,
- 1. Jat History Dalip Singh Ahlawat/Parishisht-I, s.n. ब-211
- 2. O.S.Tugania:Jat Samuday ke Pramukh Adhar Bindu, p.52, s.n. 1775
- 3. Mahendra Singh Arya et al: Adhunik Jat Itihas, p. 268
- 4. A glossary of the Tribes and Castes of the Punjab and North-West Frontier Province By H.A. Rose Vol II/B, pp.110-112
Laxman Burdak
DrRajpalSingh (October 20th, 2015), vijay (October 19th, 2015)
If Bishnois were Jats originally what could be the reasons for this change of label?Did they find some discomfort in the original label? Do we have information about the period of this transference?
?
Towards the end of the 15th century.
Laxman Burdak
DrRajpalSingh (October 20th, 2015)
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Last edited by DrRajpalSingh; October 20th, 2015 at 03:50 PM.
History is best when created, better when re-constructed and worst when invented.
History of the Jats testifies that they have never been orthodox and fanatic followers of any one religion. As and when a new reformer appeared on the scene, they start to listen his preachings/sermons and ultimately become followers of the new sect/faith/religion. Since Guru Jambheswar lived and preached in the area of erstwhile Bikaner State where Jats were living in considerable number. Therefore it is not surprising that like adoption of Sikhism by the Jats in the Punjab, in the contemporary times Bikaner region Jats adopted Bishnoi teachings of the founder. This shows their open mindedness in accepting newer reforms. In the 19th and 20 the centuries Jats of Haryana Punjab and western UP staarted to follow Swami Daya Nand and his Arya Samaj which continues to he the practice even today.
History is best when created, better when re-constructed and worst when invented.
vijay (October 21st, 2015)
I want to understand. Do the Bishnois call themselves 'Jats' or not?
The case of Arya Samaj is different. The aryasamaji among the Jats have not Abandoned their caste i.e. Jat.The Bishnois have done that. Am I right?
Dr. Sahib,
I am not sure on the issue but Bhajan Lal used to declare himself as Jat and Bishnoi both. But in the recent lok sabha elections his son and political successor Kuldeep Bishnoi raised the slogan of Jats vs Non Jats and presented himself as face of Non Jat voters. However he faced defeat at the hands of Dushyant Chautala, who became the youngest MP in our parliament.
Pardon me Sir for another question :
Do you consider 'Jat' a label as used by you in your post No. 95 or as a caste as in the case of present post under reference. Are both words interchangeable. I find use of word 'LABEL' for the Jat caste/community/people/race for the first time in your posts. Nowhere have been seen this word 'Label' used for any other caste/community except used by you. Hence I find use of word 'LABEL' for the Jat caste/community/people/race quite disgusting, Sir.
Thanks and regards
History is best when created, better when re-constructed and worst when invented.
vijay (October 21st, 2015)
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