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Thread: Let us Discuss What is History

  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by ravinderjeet View Post
    जा इतिहासकार इतने-ए सही अर गलत के बारे में इतनी ड़ून्घी जांच पड़ताल करें सें अर इमानदार सें ते फेर भारत अर पाकिस्तान की हिस्ट्री एक होणी चाहिए , आजादी तें पहलम की | पाकिस्तान के इतिहासकार ते न्यू कहवें सें अक इस्लाम अर पाकिस्तान धरती पे कदीमी स |
    Dost, Aap ne sahi baat kahi hai kee aisa hona chahiya.

    Pakistan mein aisa kahate hain to yeh history nahin, propaganda hai; yadi yeh history hoti to aap bhee yeh sawal nahin uthate kyonki aap ne pahle hee history kee puri jaankari hai aur Pakistan mein jo propaganda ho raha hai use aap bhee history nahin mante.

    Is baare mein mein aap kya kahana chahenge historians galat hain yaa propaganda karaane wale!!

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by DrRajpalSingh View Post
    Dost, Aap ne sahi baat kahi hai kee aisa hona chahiya.

    Pakistan mein aisa kahate hain to yeh history nahin, propaganda hai; yadi yeh history hoti to aap bhee yeh sawal nahin uthate kyonki aap ne pahle hee history kee puri jaankari hai aur Pakistan mein jo propaganda ho raha hai use aap bhee history nahin mante.

    Is baare mein mein aap kya kahana chahenge historians galat hain yaa propaganda karaane wale!!

    अधिकतर इतिहासकार ( नकली ) प्रोपगेंडा करने वाले ही हैं | जो लोग पैसा ले कर इतिहास लिखते हैं ,गाते हैं , वे भांड कहलाते हैं |भारत का इतिहास जो आजकल किताबों में पढ़ाया जा रहा हे ,वो भी झूठ का पुलिंदा हे |इतिहास लिखने के लिए इतिहासकार का इमानदार होना बहुत जरुरी हे | इतिहासकार में इतनी हिम्मत होणी चाहिए की अगर उस्से पता चले की उसका बाप कोई और हे तो उसको भी वो सवीकार कर सके और सच्चाई लिख सके | मेरा उद्देश्य किसी की भावनाओं को ठेस पहुंचाना नहीं हे ----- सद- भावनाओं सहित |
    :rockwhen you found a key to success,some ideot change the lock,*******BREAK THE DOOR.
    हक़ मांगने से नहीं मिलता , छिना जाता हे |
    अहिंसा कमजोरों का हथियार हे |
    पगड़ी संभाल जट्टा |
    मौत नु आंगालियाँ पे नचांदे , ते आपां जाट कुहांदे |

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  4. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by anilsangwan View Post
    Can feel a bit harsh to History teachers or lovers.... but seems the way it is written in text books and it is taught, makes it very boring subject. I know exceptions are always there.

    मेरे जिसे हिस्ट्री में बोदे आदमी तें बूझोगे या फेर किसे छटी सात्मी आठ्मी के बालक ने बूझोगे तो न्यू कह गा..."हिस्ट्री के पेपर में कितना इ लिख ल्यो.... नंबर 50-60 तें उपर कोणी आवें... मास्टर बिलांत तें नाप नाप के नंबर दिया करें...|| तारिख आर सन की घोल्मथोल माचे बिना ना रह... जितना पढो उतनी इ खिचड़ी...


    Never ever thought that someone would even distort History as no one can benefit out of it. एब जा के बेरi पाटे स आक हिस्ट्री लिखण में भी राजनीति चाली सें...... एर गलत हिस्ट्री लिखण का मोटा नुक्सान स जाती और वर्ग विशेष के उपर .........
    Sangwanji,

    Wrong assumptions and perceptions about the subject of history in the minds of parents like us have caused to grow this type of fear in the minds of the young school going children. The facts are contrary to what you have posted here:

    1. No exclusive history subject is taught at school level up to secondary/matriculation level anywhere in India.

    2. Social studies comprising history, geography, civics and economics makes one subject. This amalgamation of several papers in one subject leads to the knotty problem for the young minds to grasp all of them and get good marks. However, the victim or villain becomes history in the eyes of the ignorant child or his/her parents.

    3. If we look at the syllabus of even social studies up to 10th level or History as a separate subject at 10+2 level and the marking scheme, major portion of it is divided into objective type of question-answer form, so gone are the days when the students used to get highest 50-60 marks. These days majority of them get over 75 marks and in some cases 98 or 99 percent marks which could be verified from going through the results declared by various state and central boards.
    Thanks
    Last edited by DrRajpalSingh; June 5th, 2012 at 07:05 PM.

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  6. #84
    History is recorded in numerous diaries, letters, journals, articles, etc. Other evidence comes in art, such as paintings, pottery, statues, etc.
    It's sad, but we are forced to believe a specific historic reality as fact, when most of it is bullshit.

    Everybody believes that the Nazis were very cruel. But do we ever realise how "evil & cruel" the Russians and Japanese were? Russian troops committed more war crimes on their way to Berlin than Hitler could have imagined. Rape, murder, massacres, executions of random people, etc. The Japanese killed 20 million people. They still worship war criminals today. These crimes are recorded in history books, but never taught in schools. Reason is simply because Comrade Stalin won the war (and nobody can say anything bad about Comrade Stalin, who singlehandly drove the evil Nazi capitalists back and conquered Berlin), and eventually Japan has become America's friend.

    We know history happened because there are letters, artifacts, eyewitness accounts, physical evidence, etc. However, sometimes things are left out, sometimes things are framed in a certain way, etc.

    You just have to trust your grandparents, who trusted their grandparents, and hope your grandchildren will trust you. If enough people trust their relatives backwards in history, then their version of history will be the official one.

    Textbooks are another case, as they usually are biased in one way or the other, for one reason or another. I believe they do succeed in distorting history somewhat, because parents don't take the time (or haven't trusted/never listened to their grandparents/have forgotten/aren't interested etc) to check what the books are telling their children.

    My these views are not meant to hurt anyone's feelings. But they actually demonstrate what I personally feel.

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  8. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by mandeep333 View Post
    History is recorded in numerous diaries, letters, journals, articles, etc. Other evidence comes in art, such as paintings, pottery, statues, etc.
    It's sad, but we are forced to believe a specific historic reality as fact, when most of it is bullshit.

    Everybody believes that the Nazis were very cruel. But do we ever realise how "evil & cruel" the Russians and Japanese were? Russian troops committed more war crimes on their way to Berlin than Hitler could have imagined. Rape, murder, massacres, executions of random people, etc. The Japanese killed 20 million people. They still worship war criminals today. These crimes are recorded in history books, but never taught in schools. Reason is simply because Comrade Stalin won the war (and nobody can say anything bad about Comrade Stalin, who singlehandly drove the evil Nazi capitalists back and conquered Berlin), and eventually Japan has become America's friend.


    We know history happened because there are letters, artifacts, eyewitness accounts, physical evidence, etc. However, sometimes things are left out, sometimes things are framed in a certain way, etc.

    You just have to trust your grandparents, who trusted their grandparents, and hope your grandchildren will trust you. If enough people trust their relatives backwards in history, then their version of history will be the official one.

    Textbooks are another case, as they usually are biased in one way or the other, for one reason or another. I believe they do succeed in distorting history somewhat, because parents don't take the time (or haven't trusted/never listened to their grandparents/have forgotten/aren't interested etc) to check what the books are telling their children.

    My these views are not meant to hurt anyone's feelings. But they actually demonstrate what I personally feel.
    Friend,
    You are right that the records of the Nazi atrocities were brought to light earlier than their opponents engaged in the WW II. But the acts of omissions and commissions including atrocities committed by all the participants are gradually coming up and in due course of time, they will surely find place on the pages of history books of the world.
    I would like to draw your attention to one interesting point. The contemporary history i.e. history belonging to the latest about 100 years is known as contemporary history and the conclusions arrived on in it are generally considered tentative subject to verification by the historians in the light of emergence of newer reliable sources of information. This is so because in many countries much of the records labeled as 'confidential' by the officials is kept out of the reach of the authors/public for a certain period after expiry of that period it is let open for use by the general public.

    This contemporary history part becomes a bone of contention and also creates doubt in the general readers about the reliability of history itself.
    Thanks.

    P.S:Bold portion of the quote mine.

  9. #86
    Dr sahab, I know history is your subject/profession, but frankly speaking your views are theoretical, you are ignoring the facts/practical part and with your good language and theoretical knowledge of the subject, you are trying to over shadow the facts, other wise you also know what is history, Any way, I respect you and your love for the history, please do not mind my jat style of straight talk, it is a discussion nothing else

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  11. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by Fateh View Post
    Dr sahab, I know history is your subject/profession, but frankly speaking your views are theoretical, you are ignoring the facts/practical part and with your good language and theoretical knowledge of the subject, you are trying to over shadow the facts, other wise you also know what is history, Any way, I respect you and your love for the history, please do not mind my jat style of straight talk, it is a discussion nothing else
    Thanks friend for accepting partially what theory of history is. I love your forthright style.

    It is another thing what ideally it should be!!!

  12. #88
    डा . राजपाल जी ,में आप तें एक इमानदार उत्तर की अपेक्षआ करूं सु | आप न्यू बताओ ( बात ने घुमाइओ मतन्या ) म्हारी किताबां में न्यू पढ़ाया जावे स अक दुसरे विश्व युद्ध में जापानियां ने भारत पे ( बिर्टिश इंडिया , इन्क्लुडिंग बर्महा ) आकर्मण कर दिया था , और घणे अत्याचार करे थे , जनता पे ,और भारत के एक बड़े भू भाग को जीत लिया था ( आज के कोहिमा ताहीं आ गे थे ) उन को भारत की फौज ने हराया अर घणे सारे मेडल भी जीते ( जिनमे जाट भी सें , वे देश भक्त कुहाये )|

    दुसरा पक्ष ---- जिन्न ने म्हारी इतिहास की किताब जापानी कहवे स ,वे आजाद हिंद फौज के फौजी थे जिन ताहीं जापानी गोला बारूद की सहायता देवें थे | जो फौजी बिर्टिश भारतीय फौज ने छोड़ के ने आजाद हिंद फौज में रळ गे वे भगोड़े कहलाये | भारत के आजाद होए पाछे आज हाम उन् ने एक ओड ने ते देशभक्त कहवाँ सां अर सवतंत्रता सेनानी कह के ने पेनसन देवाँ सां , अर दूसरी ओड़ ने भारतीय फौज के रिकार्ड के अनुसार भगोड़े कहवाँ सां , अर विदेशी या जापनी आक्रमणकारी कहवाँ सां |
    १) सुभाष चन्द्र बोस देशद्रोही था या देशभक्त था ?
    २) बिर्टिश भारतीय फौज के भगोड़े सेनिक देश द्रोही थे या देश भक्त थे ?
    ३) ये जा विदेशी अत्याचारी थे तो देश भक्त क्यूकर हो गे ?
    ४) जो फोजियाँ ने बिर्टिश भारतीय फौज की ओड़ तें लड़दी हाण मेडल लिए ( जो की आजाद हिंद के आपने-ए भाइयां ने मार के ने लिए सें ,जिन्न ने हाम आज सवतंत्रता सेनानी कहवाँ सां ,की इज्ज़त किः बात पे करी जा स ? देश भक्तों को मारने के लिए ?


    ये दोनु बात एक-ए इतिहास की किताब में पढ़ाई जावें सें | ये इतिहासकार बावली बूच सें अक इह देश के नागरिक बावली बूच सें ?


    ----- सद- भावनाओं सहित |
    :rockwhen you found a key to success,some ideot change the lock,*******BREAK THE DOOR.
    हक़ मांगने से नहीं मिलता , छिना जाता हे |
    अहिंसा कमजोरों का हथियार हे |
    पगड़ी संभाल जट्टा |
    मौत नु आंगालियाँ पे नचांदे , ते आपां जाट कुहांदे |

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  14. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by DrRajpalSingh View Post
    Thanks friend for accepting partially what theory of history is. I love your forthright style.

    It is another thing what ideally it should be!!!
    Dear, ideal also has diffwerent standard/measurement for different people, however, in this case theoretical ideals do not go forward, now you are requested to answer few very pertinent questions raised by mr Ravinderjeet,regards

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  16. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by ravinderjeet View Post
    डा . राजपाल जी ,में आप तें एक इमानदार उत्तर की अपेक्षआ करूं सु | आप न्यू बताओ ( बात ने घुमाइओ मतन्या ) म्हारी किताबां में न्यू पढ़ाया जावे स अक दुसरे विश्व युद्ध में जापानियां ने भारत पे ( बिर्टिश इंडिया , इन्क्लुडिंग बर्महा ) आकर्मण कर दिया था , और घणे अत्याचार करे थे , जनता पे ,और भारत के एक बड़े भू भाग को जीत लिया था ( आज के कोहिमा ताहीं आ गे थे ) उन को भारत की फौज ने हराया अर घणे सारे मेडल भी जीते ( जिनमे जाट भी सें , वे देश भक्त कुहाये )|

    दुसरा पक्ष ---- जिन्न ने म्हारी इतिहास की किताब जापानी कहवे स ,वे आजाद हिंद फौज के फौजी थे जिन ताहीं जापानी गोला बारूद की सहायता देवें थे | जो फौजी बिर्टिश भारतीय फौज ने छोड़ के ने आजाद हिंद फौज में रळ गे वे भगोड़े कहलाये | भारत के आजाद होए पाछे आज हाम उन् ने एक ओड ने ते देशभक्त कहवाँ सां अर सवतंत्रता सेनानी कह के ने पेनसन देवाँ सां , अर दूसरी ओड़ ने भारतीय फौज के रिकार्ड के अनुसार भगोड़े कहवाँ सां , अर विदेशी या जापनी आक्रमणकारी कहवाँ सां |
    १) सुभाष चन्द्र बोस देशद्रोही था या देशभक्त था ?
    २) बिर्टिश भारतीय फौज के भगोड़े सेनिक देश द्रोही थे या देश भक्त थे ?
    ३) ये जा विदेशी अत्याचारी थे तो देश भक्त क्यूकर हो गे ?
    ४) जो फोजियाँ ने बिर्टिश भारतीय फौज की ओड़ तें लड़दी हाण मेडल लिए ( जो की आजाद हिंद के आपने-ए भाइयां ने मार के ने लिए सें ,जिन्न ने हाम आज सवतंत्रता सेनानी कहवाँ सां ,की इज्ज़त किः बात पे करी जा स ? देश भक्तों को मारने के लिए ?

    ये दोनु बात एक-ए इतिहास की किताब में पढ़ाई जावें सें | ये इतिहासकार बावली बूच सें अक इह देश के नागरिक बावली बूच सें ?
    ----- सद- भावनाओं सहित |
    Ravinderjeet Singh ji,

    I welcome your very good and relevant questions on a very serious topic of the Saga of Sacrifice by our valiant forefathers to free India from the grinding yoke of the slavery to the British.
    First of all I beg pardon for replying your questions in English. The replies to the issues raised according to my understanding of History as a subject of study are produced as under:

    1. Undoubtedly, Netaji Subhash Chandra Bose was a patriot par excellence .

    2. The Indians from British forces of those times who joined INA were patriots and have found their hon'ble place of pride in the books of Indian History.
    The atrocities committed by the Japanese in Korea and Burma are not any longer hidden from the world and Govt. of Japan has openly accepted that in recent years.

    Kindly remember Burma had ceased to be a part of India in 1935 i.e. before the beginning of the WW II.

    We have full chapters on the sterling contribution of Freedom fighters including therein full chapters on S. Bhagat Singh and HSRA, Netaji Subhash Chandra Bose and INA at our degree level courses of study of Kurukshetra University and there is no reference about any atrocities committed by INA on the then British Indians.

    Therefore, before I could post comment on questions 3 and 4 raised by you, would you be kind enough to inform us the name of the book/author to whom you are referring or quote the relevant paragraph where this description happens. You would appreciate that this would facilitate proper comment by all the participants in the discussion on the issue.

    Regards

    P.S.: Kind attention Sh. F.S. Kharb with reference to his post No 90 on this thread discussion.
    Last edited by DrRajpalSingh; June 6th, 2012 at 09:04 PM.

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  18. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by DrRajpalSingh View Post
    Ravinderjeet Singh ji,

    I welcome your very good and relevant questions on a very serious topic of the Saga of Sacrifice by our valiant forefathers to free India from the grinding yoke of the slavery to the British.
    First of all I beg pardon for replying your questions in English. The replies to the issues raised according to my understanding of History as a subject of study are produced as under:

    1. Undoubtedly, Netaji Subhash Chandra Bose was a patriot par excellence .

    2. The Indians from British forces of those times who joined INA were patriots and have found their hon'ble place of pride in the books of Indian History.
    The atrocities committed by the Japanese in Korea and Burma are not any longer hidden from the world and Govt. of Japan has openly accepted that in recent years.

    Kindly remember Burma had ceased to be a part of India in 1935 i.e. before the beginning of the WW II.

    We have full chapters on the sterling contribution of Freedom fighters including therein full chapters on S. Bhagat Singh and HSRA, Netaji Subhash Chandra Bose and INA at our degree level courses of study of Kurukshetra University and there is no reference about any atrocities committed by INA on the then British Indians.

    Therefore, before I could post comment on questions 3 and 4 raised by you, would you be kind enough to inform us the name of the book/author to whom you are referring or quote the relevant paragraph where this description happens. You would appreciate that this would facilitate proper comment by all the participants in the discussion on the issue.

    Regards

    P.S.: Kind attention Sh. F.S. Kharb with reference to his post No 90 on this thread discussion.


    Yes I am following, but your full reply is yet to appear, regards

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  20. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by Fateh View Post
    [/COLOR]Yes I am following, but your full reply is yet to appear, regards
    Thanks.

    Kindly make it convenient to supply the required information on points 3 and 4 as requested by me in the earlier post so that proper analysis of the topic could be accomplished.

  21. #93
    डा . राजपाल जी ,में आप तें एक इमानदार उत्तर की अपेक्षआ करूं सु | आप न्यू बताओ ( बात ने घुमाइओ मतन्या ) म्हारी

    Quote Originally Posted by DrRajpalSingh View Post
    Ravinderjeet Singh ji,

    I welcome your very good and relevant questions on a very serious topic of the Saga of Sacrifice by our valiant forefathers to free India from the grinding yoke of the slavery to the British.
    First of all I beg pardon for replying your questions in English. The replies to the issues raised according to my understanding of History as a subject of study are produced as under:

    1. Undoubtedly, Netaji Subhash Chandra Bose was a patriot par excellence .

    2. The Indians from British forces of those times who joined INA were patriots and have found their hon'ble place of pride in the books of Indian History.
    The atrocities committed by the Japanese in Korea and Burma are not any longer hidden from the world and Govt. of Japan has openly accepted that in recent years.

    Kindly remember Burma had ceased to be a part of India in 1935 i.e. before the beginning of the WW II.

    We have full chapters on the sterling contribution of Freedom fighters including therein full chapters on S. Bhagat Singh and HSRA, Netaji Subhash Chandra Bose and INA at our degree level courses of study of Kurukshetra University and there is no reference about any atrocities committed by INA on the then British Indians.

    Therefore, before I could post comment on questions 3 and 4 raised by you, would you be kind enough to inform us the name of the book/author to whom you are referring or quote the relevant paragraph where this description happens. You would appreciate that this would facilitate proper comment by all the participants in the discussion on the issue.

    Regards

    P.S.: Kind attention Sh. F.S. Kharb with reference to his post No 90 on this thread discussion.

    डा. राजपाल जी , मन्ने दो बात लाल हरफां में लिखी थी | पर आपने उन् पे ध्यान कोणी दिया | आप एक अच्छे नोकरशाह होंगे या हो सकते हैं | जो हर दुसरे के किये हुए अच्छे काम का करेडिट खुद लेता हे और अपनी हर कमी या गलत काम को किसी दुसरे पर धकेल देता हे | आपने अपने जबाब में वही किया हे | में इस बहस में और भाग नहीं लेना चाहता ---धन्यवाद ---- सद- भावनाओं सहित |
    :rockwhen you found a key to success,some ideot change the lock,*******BREAK THE DOOR.
    हक़ मांगने से नहीं मिलता , छिना जाता हे |
    अहिंसा कमजोरों का हथियार हे |
    पगड़ी संभाल जट्टा |
    मौत नु आंगालियाँ पे नचांदे , ते आपां जाट कुहांदे |

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    DrRajpalSingh (June 7th, 2012), Fateh (June 7th, 2012), satyenderdeswal (June 8th, 2012), ssgoyat (June 7th, 2012)

  23. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by ravinderjeet View Post
    डा . राजपाल जी ,में आप तें एक इमानदार उत्तर की अपेक्षआ करूं सु | आप न्यू बताओ ( बात ने घुमाइओ मतन्या ) म्हारी


    डा. राजपाल जी , मन्ने दो बात लाल हरफां में लिखी थी | पर आपने उन् पे ध्यान कोणी दिया | आप एक अच्छे नोकरशाह होंगे या हो सकते हैं | जो हर दुसरे के किये हुए अच्छे काम का करेडिट खुद लेता हे और अपनी हर कमी या गलत काम को किसी दुसरे पर धकेल देता हे | आपने अपने जबाब में वही किया हे | में इस बहस में और भाग नहीं लेना चाहता ---धन्यवाद ---- सद- भावनाओं सहित |
    BHAI Sahib,

    Meine bhee Do Tuck Jawab Diye hein.

    Pahle aap yah batayen kee aapke Question Nos. 1 aur 2 ke utteron mein ghumao kahan Hai ? Kya aapko inme ghumao ya be-imaana nazar aata Hai.

    Mera manana hai ki yeh jawab aap ke disha nirdesh ke anusaar hain tatha sapast aur sidhe diya gaye Hain.



    Question No. 3 aur 4 se sambhdit mangi gai suchna milne ka intzar rahega, tabhi unke jawab diya ja sakte hein.

    Mere kaam aur mere vyaktigat jeevan ke baare mein aapke subh vichar jaankar hardik khushi hui;

    Itane badhia testimonial ke liye danyavad!
    !!


    Saadar Pranaam.
    Last edited by DrRajpalSingh; June 7th, 2012 at 04:55 PM.

  24. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by DrRajpalSingh View Post
    BHAI Sahib,

    Meine bhee Do Tuck Jawab Diye hein.

    Pahle aap yah batayen kee aapke Question Nos. 1 aur 2 ke utteron mein ghumao kahan Hai ? Kya aapko inme ghumao ya be-imaana nazar aata Hai.

    Mera manana hai ki yeh jawab aap ke disha nirdesh ke anusaar hain tatha sapast aur sidhe diya gaye Hain.



    Question No. 3 aur 4 se sambhdit mangi gai suchna milne ka intzar rahega, tabhi unke jawab diya ja sakte hein.

    Mere kaam aur mere vyaktigat jeevan ke baare mein aapke subh vichar jaankar hardik khushi hui;

    Itane badhia testimonial ke liye danyavad!
    !!


    Saadar Pranaam.
    Brother, does history of England calls Netaji and Army personnel who crossed over towards Netaji, patriots,also why Nehru gave in writing to British Govt that if Netaji appears in India, he will be handed over to them, was he considered a patriot by the newly form govt of India, For your kind information some Army personnel who tried to cross over but could not do it or some who were caught were punished by the British Indian Army. Secondly dear what for you need to know the book and author to answer, if you do not believe or if q-3 & 4 are wrong/irrelevent etc, than you say so and give correct version from your side, Anther Question- what do you call those Indian soldiers who fought against patriots under the banner of British, some of them got awards and got regularly money from Independent Indian Govt.

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  26. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by Fateh View Post
    Brother, does history of England calls Netaji and Army personnel who crossed over towards Netaji, patriots,also why Nehru gave in writing to British Govt that if Netaji appears in India, he will be handed over to them, was he considered a patriot by the newly form govt of India, For your kind information some Army personnel who tried to cross over but could not do it or some who were caught were punished by the British Indian Army. Secondly dear what for you need to know the book and author to answer, if you do not believe or if q-3 & 4 are wrong/irrelevent etc, than you say so and give correct version from your side, Anther Question- what do you call those Indian soldiers who fought against patriots under the banner of British, some of them got awards and got regularly money from Independent Indian Govt.
    My Esteemed Friend,

    1. It is a great revelation from you that it was so, would you kindly let us know if you have seen the document or throw light on the whereabouts of the document at present' The reference is to your comment: [why Nehru gave in writing to British Govt that if Netaji appears in India, he will be handed over to them, was he considered a patriot by the newly form govt of India].

    2. Then you say, ''Secondly dear what for you need to know the book and author to answer..." The reason is:

    To critically analyse any statement in the history books, first of all one has to go through the context, references quoted and then filling the gap, if any, only on the basis of the same on the basis of newer additional data.

    That is why I request you to do this favour. If you have no such reference, then, instead of dragging the issue further, admit it or supply the needful reference so that the issue could be clinched.

    Yes there is an alternative.

    Dear Friend,
    I hereby publicly admit that I am ignorant about the rules/regulations and army manual on the issue and consider you as the fittest person to enlighten us on the basis of your practical experience and knowledge regarding the issues as are being discussed, especially raised under questions 3 and 4. Would you oblige us please!

    3. The two out of 4 questions under discussion are straight and my replies to two of them are even straighter in line with the need of the intellectual parameters prevalent all over the world. Your comments on these two points are eagerly awaited.

    4. The veneration to 'Patriotism' is limited to the boundaries of the country to which such Hero belongs.

    Thanks
    Last edited by DrRajpalSingh; June 7th, 2012 at 08:43 PM.

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  28. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by DrRajpalSingh View Post
    My Esteemed Friend,

    1. It is a great revelation from you that it was so, would you kindly let us know if you have seen the document or throw light on the whereabouts of the document at present' The reference is to your comment: [why Nehru gave in writing to British Govt that if Netaji appears in India, he will be handed over to them, was he considered a patriot by the newly form govt of India].

    2. Then you say, ''Secondly dear what for you need to know the book and author to answer..." The reason is:

    To critically analyse any statement in the history books, first of all one has to go through the context, references quoted and then filling the gap, if any, only on the basis of the same on the basis of newer additional data.

    That is why I request you to do this favour. If you have no such reference, then, instead of dragging the issue further, admit it or supply the needful reference so that the issue could be clinched.

    Yes there is an alternative.

    Dear Friend,
    I hereby publicly admit that I am ignorant about the rules/regulations and army manual on the issue and consider you as the fittest person to enlighten us on the basis of your practical experience and knowledge regarding the issues as are being discussed, especially raised under questions 3 and 4. Would you oblige us please!

    3. The two out of 4 questions under discussion are straight and my replies to two of them are even straighter in line with the need of the intellectual parameters prevalent all over the world. Your comments on these two points are eagerly awaited.

    4. The veneration to 'Patriotism' is limited to the boundaries of the country to which such Hero belongs.

    Thanks
    Dr saheb, If references were left by the rulers than the situation might have been different, but kindly trace some elderly person in your village/home town Dadari and ask about it.
    second point, we wanted to know your reply not analysis
    , we are also talking with in boundaries. Here discussion is on your subject the History, where is the requirement of rules, regulations and Army manual.THUS PLEASE DO NOT CONFUSE THE ISSUE. Mr Rajpal please do not thing that we are testing your knowledge, Had we know the answer, we would not have asked you. So if you can answer than do it or stop the discussion, it is not a competition. So relax, regards
    Last edited by Fateh; June 8th, 2012 at 06:47 AM.

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  30. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by Fateh View Post
    Dr saheb, If references were left by the rulers than the situation might have been different, but kindly trace some elderly person in your village/home town Dadari and ask about it.
    second point, we wanted to know your reply not analysis
    , we are also talking with in boundaries. Here discussion is on your subject the History, where is the requirement of rules, regulations and Army manual.THUS PLEASE DO NOT CONFUSE THE ISSUE. Mr Rajpal please do not thing that we are testing your knowledge, Had we know the answer, we would not have asked you. So if you can answer than do it or stop the discussion, it is not a competition. So relax, regards
    Thanks Friend for closing the issue on a happy note that there is no reference available, as of now, on the questions raised.

    Let us move to some other topic for a healthier discussion.

    I would like to invite valued views of the Jatlanders on the Topic: Perspectives on the History of Jats; i.e. Jat Itihas kee aaj dasha aur dishayein.

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  32. #99
    Friends,

    Jat historiography has traversed many a crosses since appearance of Dr. K.R. Qanungo's pioneering work on Jat History in 1925 and followed by Desharaj Jhaghina's path breaking Jat Itihas in c. 1934. Then the task was followed by Lt. Ramswarup Joon in 1940's, Captain Dalip Singh Ahalawat and B.S. Dahiya in 1980's and the last but not the least Dr. Hukam Singh in 1990's as well as by four authors [Dr Mahendra Singh Arya, Dharmpal Singh Dudee, Kishan Singh Faujdar & Vijendra Singh Narwar:] in the Ādhunik Jat Itihasa in 1998. All of them have done yeoman's service to bring the lost pages of the origin and contribution of the community as a whole to light of the day. [Regional histories and biographies have not been included].
    Several other writers and authors have also contributed in this 'yajana' of writing the Jat History whose names must be enlisted here but due to certain constraints this could not be done. But I beg to submit that this should not be construed as disregard to their contribution or disrespect to their person.

    The editorial team of the Jatland Wiki pages has made sterling contribution, in addition to other aspects of Jat History, they have especially facilitated a thorough and unbiased critical study of origin of Jat gotras which constitute the community, and made it available to the public for their comments.

    In a way, the issue pertaining to the origin of the Jats, has been discussed threadbare and tentative conclusions on the issue have been carried near crystallization. The newer references/data if and when emerge, could be included as and when received and wherever required.

    Now, the time has arrived to produce a Comprehensive Political, Social and Economic History of the Jats which could be done by not one man but by a team of persons taking up certain part/s of it and then before publication critically analysed/edited by the editorial board constituted for the purpose!

    Leaving aside Pre-historic and Proto historic times for Volume I of the proposed project, we can start with preparing an authentic account of Volume II relating to the period c 600 B C to c 650 A.D. and in the like manner further volumes could be planned.

    Are there any takers of this idea on Jat History and come forward to join the proposed Project Or to suggest alternate better plan or Project!!

    Thanks.
    Last edited by DrRajpalSingh; June 8th, 2012 at 02:48 PM.

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  34. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by DrRajpalSingh View Post
    Thanks Friend for closing the issue on a happy note that there is no reference available, as of now, on the questions raised.

    Let us move to some other topic for a healthier discussion.

    I would like to invite valued views of the Jatlanders on the Topic: Perspectives on the History of Jats; i.e. Jat Itihas kee aaj dasha aur dishayein.
    Look Brother, I do understand, what your first line says, please do not through the ball in my court, please accept gracefully if you can not or do not want to answer above questions, neither I know such method of pushing the blame to other side nor my age and status permit me to reply in the same coins, also such small things do not matter much. Friend, every body is not expected to know every thing in this world and there is no age limit of learning, request to start writing on a straight line at list when matter is with in the family. again request you to take it a friendly advise only, regards
    Last edited by Fateh; June 8th, 2012 at 06:29 PM.

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