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  1. #1

    Let us Discuss What is History

    Friends, For the past few months a very interesting and enjoyable discussion is going on the pages of JatLand.com on various facets of Indian culture, civilization and history. It is very significant to note that we are trying to put our own point of view or hypothesis to prove it or to disapprove the other persons point of view without quoting historical data on the issue involved. This leads us nowhere. Would it not be good if we first of all let everyone know, according to your perception, what really is history and how does it differ from fiction. Yes, your valuable opinions, views, points of agreement and disagreement on this topic are invited.

    Come Join Us through this thread and contribute to enable us to understand clearly what history is and how it is written and commented upon; what are its impacts, uses and abuses and so on and so forth!

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  3. #2
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    For me, History is the information about the past. The civilization, the people, incidents, wars, changes, the reason behind those events, date wise sequence of those events and the outcome of those events. Each and everything supported by the Facts and Figures.
    It's better to be alone than in a bad company.

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    Mathematically: History = Itihas = It so happened
    Laxman Burdak

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  7. #4
    As per my understanding, history is the story of the mankind and civilization of the past.
    Yoginder Gulia

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  9. #5
    .

    Though writing of human history could mean a sequence or chronology of events, with the passage of time it becomes a mixture of myths, perceptions, notions and realities. The heroes of yesteryears could be remembered as villains and today’s great personalities could possibly be termed as traitors or a gang of mafia. History is written by winners of wars, not losers. Human memory is very short and, in today’s world, it is rather easy to mould the public mind by a series and repetitions of misinformation. For example, America of today has a huge propaganda machinery, using mass electronic and print media world-wide. If this machinery continues its propaganda, for example against a single nation, the world attention is diverted and the truth simply hides behind the curtain. Hitler had well said that if a lie is repeated for one hundred times, it automatically converts into truth. Writers of history are also human beings and they cannot remain unaffected from such propaganda machinery, both written and verbal.

    Hitler and Stalin were heroes of yesterday, today they are villains. It is also possible that tomorrow Gandhi may be termed as greatest traitor (in fact many have started calling him like that).

    Mahabharata, no doubt, is a historical episode. But 100 sons of Queen Gandhari, Droupadi having five husbands, Krishna’s lifting the mountain – are all myths. But common man treats these stories as real happenings.

    Time is the real Hero, the undefeatable ! It may also bury the languages in which history is written. Today we are writing on paper which has short life-span. In the past, history was also written on stones, copper-plates etc. These also get into oblivion with the passage of time !

    .
    तमसो मा ज्योतिर्गमय

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  11. #6
    Friends,

    Your all posts are to the point and shed light on various dimensions of history. We hope to hear from other fellow JatLanders in the subsequent discussion. Yes, we hope and wish they join us to share their perception of history.

    Regards

  12. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by lrburdak View Post
    Mathematically: History = Itihas = It so happened
    Generally, history is available as it was written/presented, not correctly so happened

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  14. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Fateh View Post
    Generally, history is available as it was written/presented, not correctly so happened
    Dear Friend,

    Very good point of view.

    Kindly quote distortions to substantiate your hypothesis to prove that it did not haappen as it is presented.

    Regards

  15. #9
    [QUOTE=DrRajpalSingh;298572]Dear Friend,

    Very good point of view.

    Kindly quote distortions to substantiate your hypothesis to prove that it did not haappen as it is presented.

    Dr sahab, It is well known fact that no historical event is put up on paper or some other material without considerable influence of the writer and the the authority concern and not only that, history is burnt/destryed and rewritten with change of ruling power, Dear friend what to talk about distortions, even distortions are distorted many times so there is no point of giving examples I consider our entire history available presently, is untrue, Even you compare a perticular event in old books and new books, you will find many changes and confusion, Brother, it is not understood as to how and why you considered my views as hypothesis, I am really keen to know the reasons for calling my views as hypothesis, If you donot consider me as capable/qualified to share my views on history in that case friend, you shouldnot have asked all of us to express our views. Such utterences/expressions/remarks, strengthen my views that people consider faujis & farmers, totally uneducated irrespective of their qualification/capability/experience etc. However, you being an educated and experienced person and being farmer, atlist you shouldnot have such impression about us.

    regards

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  17. #10
    In indian context, History is misrepresentation of facts by the Bengali brahmin Historians. They distorted the facts and give a very false image of our history.

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  19. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by dahiyavijay7 View Post
    In indian context, History is misrepresentation of facts by the Bengali brahmin Historians. They distorted the facts and give a very false image of our history.
    Dear Dahiya Sahib,

    Please share specific examples of the facts distorted by the allegedly 'Bengali Brahmin Historians.' I bet you will be doing a great service to the nation by setting history in the true form as it happened.

    Hope to see you shortly on this thread through your valued comments and with regards.

  20. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by DrRajpalSingh View Post
    Dear Dahiya Sahib,

    Please share specific examples of the facts distorted by the allegedly 'Bengali Brahmin Historians.' I bet you will be doing a great service to the nation by setting history in the true form as it happened.

    Hope to see you shortly on this thread through your valued comments and with regards.
    The first distorted fact about our history is the perception made by our history books that the Britishers established their rule in India, because the people were fed up with Indian rulers. The common people did not protest the overthrew of Indian rulers by the Britishers. This perception is true only with Bengal. The british rule was established in India through the Bengal province. The britisher fought the battle of Plassey 23 June 1757 to overthrough Siraj-ud-daulah. In fact, the cowardice of Bengali people was not repeated in other states. The history of Haryana suggests that british military had to fight in every village to take over their control. The people of Haryana fought hard and even the british soldiers armed with weapons were frightened to come to village alone. However, NCERT history books only carries the image of Bengal invasion. Further, our historians do not give the name or incidence suggesting the rule of Jats in the country. We are called “Kshtriyas”, however, I never read anywhere in my school books that any Jat ever ruled in the country. Our NCERT books only tells that the Jat people were goons residing around Delhi. Further take the case of “Tejo Mahalya” thread discussed at Jatland. Why nobody ever tried to find and establish the truth of Taj Mahal. Nobody discuss the contribution made by the Haryanavi people in freedom struggle except the instances of some congressi Brahmin and Baniyas. Further, who tells us the truth about the establishment of the Congress? Our history books regard the congress as an Indian political party engaged in freedom struggle. However, the truth is Congress was established by a british officer just to foil the freedom movement. Their idea was to make a group of rich and elite, but power hungry people of india and associate the feeling/struggle sentiment of people with them, so that instead of handling large masses, they had to just cajole a few greedy people by giving them false sense of respect and authority in the Govt.
    Where did our NCERT books any incidence of brutality inflicted by the Britishers/Muslims on our people? In fact our books laud the british raj for development work. If the incidence of the brutality is brought to the public, the people shall forget the name of Hitler. The Hitler was nothing in cruelty in comparison to the Britishers/Mougals. Our NCERT books defame the Hitler by giving the incidence of cruelty with pictures, why do not it give the same treatment to the Britisher?
    What was Khilafat Movement? Our NCERT tells that Khilafat movement (1919–1924) was a freedom struggle by Muslims in British India. However, the reality is that it was a khalifa movement. The muslims tried to influence the British government to protect the Ottoman Empire during the aftermath of World War I by this movement. The Ottoman empire was governed by the Khalifa, however the britishers partitioned the empire and several new independent muslims states emerged. The independent muslim states were quite happy with the partition. However, the Indian muslim were against it, so they protested. And what was their manner of protest. Thousand of Hindus were beaten to death, cut down to pieces, women were raped and torn off by the muslims. The muslims were protesting against the britishers by making atrocities against the Hindus. Why our history books do not show this ugly realty to us? Who was Mr. Nehru? Where did he come from? What was his surname? What was his source of wealth? Nobody answered.

    In fact, there are so many facts concealed by the Govt, giving a totally different picture of our history, then representing any reality.

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  22. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by dahiyavijay7 View Post
    The first distorted fact about our history is the perception made by our history books that the Britishers established their rule in India, because the people were fed up with Indian rulers. The common people did not protest the overthrew of Indian rulers by the Britishers. This perception is true only with Bengal. The british rule was established in India through the Bengal province. The britisher fought the battle of Plassey 23 June 1757 to overthrough Siraj-ud-daulah. In fact, the cowardice of Bengali people was not repeated in other states. The history of Haryana suggests that british military had to fight in every village to take over their control. The people of Haryana fought hard and e
    What was Khilafat Movement? Our NCERT tells that Khilafat movement (1919–1924) was a freedom struggle by Muslims in British India. However, the reality is that it was a khalifa movement. The muslims tried to influence the British government to protect the Ottoman Empire during the aftermath of World War I by this movement. The Ottoman empire was governed by the Khalifa, however the britishers partitioned the empire and several new independent muslims states emerged. The independent muslim states were quite happy with the partition. However, the Indian muslim were against it, so they protested. And what was their manner of protest. Thousand of Hindus were beaten to death, cut down to pieces, women were raped and torn off by the muslims. The muslims were protesting against the britishers by making atrocities against the Hindus. Why our history books do not show this ugly realty to us? Who was Mr. Nehru? Where did he come from? What was his surname? What was his source of wealth? Nobody answered.

    In fact, there are so many facts concealed by the Govt, giving a totally different picture of our history, then representing any reality.
    विजेंदर ,आप की इस डाक (पोस्ट) के लिए एक हजार "लाइक्स "|
    :rockwhen you found a key to success,some ideot change the lock,*******BREAK THE DOOR.
    हक़ मांगने से नहीं मिलता , छिना जाता हे |
    अहिंसा कमजोरों का हथियार हे |
    पगड़ी संभाल जट्टा |
    मौत नु आंगालियाँ पे नचांदे , ते आपां जाट कुहांदे |

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  24. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by dahiyavijay7 View Post
    The first distorted fact about our history is the perception made by our history books that the Britishers established their rule in India, because the people were fed up with Indian rulers. The common people did not protest the overthrew of Indian rulers by the Britishers. This perception is true only with Bengal. The british rule was established in India through the Bengal province. The britisher fought the battle of Plassey 23 June 1757 to overthrough Siraj-ud-daulah. In fact, the cowardice of Bengali people was not repeated in other states. The history of Haryana suggests that british military had to fight in every village to take over their control. The people of Haryana fought hard and even the british soldiers armed with weapons were frightened to come to village alone. However, NCERT history books only carries the image of Bengal invasion. Further, our historians do not give the name or incidence suggesting the rule of Jats in the country. We are called “Kshtriyas”, however, I never read anywhere in my school books that any Jat ever ruled in the country. Our NCERT books only tells that the Jat people were goons residing around Delhi. Further take the case of “Tejo Mahalya” thread discussed at Jatland. Why nobody ever tried to find and establish the truth of Taj Mahal. Nobody discuss the contribution made by the Haryanavi people in freedom struggle except the instances of some congressi Brahmin and Baniyas. Further, who tells us the truth about the establishment of the Congress? Our history books regard the congress as an Indian political party engaged in freedom struggle. However, the truth is Congress was established by a british officer just to foil the freedom movement. Their idea was to make a group of rich and elite, but power hungry people of india and associate the feeling/struggle sentiment of people with them, so that instead of handling large masses, they had to just cajole a few greedy people by giving them false sense of respect and authority in the Govt.
    Where did our NCERT books any incidence of brutality inflicted by the Britishers/Muslims on our people? In fact our books laud the british raj for development work. If the incidence of the brutality is brought to the public, the people shall forget the name of Hitler. The Hitler was nothing in cruelty in comparison to the Britishers/Mougals. Our NCERT books defame the Hitler by giving the incidence of cruelty with pictures, why do not it give the same treatment to the Britisher?
    What was Khilafat Movement? Our NCERT tells that Khilafat movement (1919–1924) was a freedom struggle by Muslims in British India. However, the reality is that it was a khalifa movement. The muslims tried to influence the British government to protect the Ottoman Empire during the aftermath of World War I by this movement. The Ottoman empire was governed by the Khalifa, however the britishers partitioned the empire and several new independent muslims states emerged. The independent muslim states were quite happy with the partition. However, the Indian muslim were against it, so they protested. And what was their manner of protest. Thousand of Hindus were beaten to death, cut down to pieces, women were raped and torn off by the muslims. The muslims were protesting against the britishers by making atrocities against the Hindus. Why our history books do not show this ugly realty to us? Who was Mr. Nehru? Where did he come from? What was his surname? What was his source of wealth? Nobody answered.

    In fact, there are so many facts concealed by the Govt, giving a totally different picture of our history, then representing any reality.
    Another interesting point of view to be debated by many, welcome.

  25. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by DrRajpalSingh View Post
    Friends, For the past few months a very interesting and enjoyable discussion is going on the pages of JatLand.com on various facets of Indian culture, civilization and history. It is very significant to note that we are trying to put our own point of view or hypothesis to prove it or to disapprove the other persons point of view without quoting historical data on the issue involved. This leads us nowhere. Would it not be good if we first of all let everyone know, according to your perception, what really is history and how does it differ from fiction. Yes, your valuable opinions, views, points of agreement and disagreement on this topic are invited.

    Come Join Us through this thread and contribute to enable us to understand clearly what history is and how it is written and commented upon; what are its impacts, uses and abuses and so on and so forth!
    HISTORY: Healthy Information in the form of a story
    -- Freedom is not worth having if it does not include the freedom to make mistakes.
    -- When you talk, you are only repeating what you already know. But if you listen, you may learn something new.

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  27. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Prikshit View Post
    HISTORY: Healthy Information in the form of a story
    Dear Prikshit,

    Beautiful rhythmic post.

    But it is wrong to juxtapose the two as history and story are poles apart; history first depends on healthy and unhealthy both sort of sources to arrive at some generalisations and then starts critical evaluation of the information at the hands of so many minds involved. Story may or may not depend upon historical narratives but history can never be based solely on stories.

    Regards
    Last edited by DrRajpalSingh; February 27th, 2012 at 09:33 PM. Reason: spelling correction

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  29. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by DrRajpalSingh View Post
    Dear Prikshit,

    Beautiful rhythmic post.

    But it is wrong to juxtapose the two as history and story are poles apart; history first depends on healthy and unhealthy both sort of sources to arrive at some generalisations and then starts critical evaluation of the information at the hands of so many minds involved. Story may or may not depend upon historical narratives but history can never be based solely on stories.

    Regards
    Healthy in the sense it is good to know, generally told in the form of a story.
    -- Freedom is not worth having if it does not include the freedom to make mistakes.
    -- When you talk, you are only repeating what you already know. But if you listen, you may learn something new.

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  31. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Prikshit View Post
    Healthy in the sense it is good to know, generally told in the form of a story.
    Thanks for correcting me.

  32. #19
    A good example of distortion of facts are NCERT history books. In the Class VI History book titled “Our Pasts”, I find many misleading facts which are taught to our young generation:

    http://ncert.nic.in/NCERTS/textbook/...tm?fess1=12-12

    QUOTE
    Page 4 :
    Names of the land
    Two of the words we often use for our country are India and Bharat. The word India comes from the Indus, called Sindhu in Sanskrit. Find Iran and Greece in your atlas. The Iranians and the Greeks who came through the northwest about 2500 years ago and were familiar with the Indus, called it the Hindos or the Indos, and the land to the east of the river was called India. The name Bharata was used for a group of people who lived in the northwest, and who are mentioned in the Rigveda, the earliest composition in Sanskrit (dated to about 3500 years ago). Later it was used for the country.
    UNQUOTE

    MY COMMENTS: Bharata, as we all know, is named after King Bharat. Rigveda is known to be the oldest book of the world. The writer of this books says that it was written just 3500 year ago ! Mahabharata war was fought 5100 year ago and Rigveda was written much before Mahabharata. Any learned Indian scholar can prove this.


    QUOTE
    Page 54:

    The ashvamedha or horse sacrifice was one such ritual. A horse was let loose to wander freely and it was guarded by the raja’s men. If the horse wandered into the kingdoms of other rajas and they stopped it, they had to fight. If they allowed the horse to pass, it meant that they accepted that the raja who wanted to perform the sacrifice was stronger than them. These rajas were then invited to the sacrifice, which was performed by specially trained priests, who were rewarded with gifts. The raja who organised the sacrifice was recognised as being very powerful, and all those who came brought gifts for him.
    UNQUOTE

    MY COMMENTS - The author translates the theme "Ashvamedha Yajna" as "sacrificing the horse to the altar of holy fire of Yajna". Elsewhere, in some other such books, the word "Gomedha" has been translated as "sacrificing a cow to the holy fire of Yajna". Sanskrit term 'medha' (मेध) does not mean "killing" in Vedic Sanskrit. We all know what is meant by Ashvamedha Yajna.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Our Pasts.jpg 
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    तमसो मा ज्योतिर्गमय

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  34. #20
    For me history- just like a story- which is not fiction rather absolute truth with fact.

    Sir - I was never a good scorer when it comes to History

    However I have always enjoyed history- coz its interesting- one learns a lot from it

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