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Thread: Jats and Yadav's Similarities : Book of Sir Henry M Elliot on Races of NW Province

  1. #1

    Jats and Yadav's Similarities : Book of Sir Henry M Elliot on Races of NW Province





    Yadu was the eldest son of Yayati (father of Yadavs). It is written in the Vishnu Puran that he did not inherit his father's throne. He, therefore, retired towards Punjab and Iran. He had five sons, of whom except Satjit and Krishna, three remained childless. Satjit had three sons Bibai (Biveya), Hai (Heya) whose descendants are Jats of 'Heer' gotra and Ahai (Aheya) who founded the Ahir community.[16]
    most Ahirs write "Yadav", but not all Yadavs are Ahirs. Make sense? Only Yaduvanshi's of Haryana, Rajasthan, Gujrat,Pakistan, Upper doab ,and bundelkhand are yaduvanshi's and "YADAVS".
    Yadu Vanshi Ahirs have common gotras with the Jats (eg, Dahiya, Dagar, Balwan, Rathi, Thakran, Dhaliwal , Lamba, Mahlawat,Nirban, Dalal, Solanki, Tomar, Nikumbh, Atri etc)
    The Book by Ram Swarup Joon
    1938, 1967 (Eng Tr)

    * 2 Ahirs (Abhiras) And Jats
    * 3 Ahir Gotras
    * 4 Ahir Raj in Rewari...

    Ahirs in North Western parts of India have similar customs to the JATS. Widow marriage is practiced by them.

    etc etc...

    I hope our jat historians would get something out for the research done by Sir Henry.
    I find brothers in all castes , love in all religions. This whole world is my family .

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  3. #2
    The link shows similarities between Jats and Yadav's :

    http://books.google.co.in/books?id=p...led%20&f=false
    I find brothers in all castes , love in all religions. This whole world is my family .

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  5. #3
    Saurabh Jaglan deserves congrts for the information.

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  7. #4

    @ GentleMen

    Also, please note that the Etymology of 'JAT' is Honoured to have been the Earliest ever in History amongst the present day Indian people, and founds the place in History Literature before 'AHIR' !!
    Last edited by Moar; March 28th, 2012 at 01:49 AM.

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  9. #5
    A good piece of information, thanks for sharing this knowledge.
    Keep a bigger heart than than what you had yesterday!

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  11. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by saurabhjaglan View Post
    The link shows similarities between Jats and Yadav's :

    http://books.google.co.in/books?id=p...led%20&f=false

    You will find similarities to "Jats" in all the communities which have been living close to "Jat villages" or places where "Jats lived" for hundreds of years. This similarity will not only be in Yadav but all other communities as well.

    The main reasons is "Jats" have been fighting wars as long as history can remember. Whenever someone faught wars in past man used to die in wars, left overs of the war were the women, children and old people. In ancient society if a woman was left alone without a man she was either exploited, sold as slave or in later history become a "Sati". So in older times the best way for the women to survive was to marry any man she could find. Naturally "Jat" villages were empty because men were killed in wars. So the only option left in front of the women was to marry men of other communities.
    U will find people of other communities who live near "Jat", villages look like "Jats". This might be one of the reasons. If u go away from the area where "Jats" do not live, then u find people of the same community but they look very different.

    Widow remarriage in "Jats". Widow marrying younger brother of her dead husband might have been an outcome of the same social scenario that existed in north west of India for hundreds of years.

    I have read theories that lot of "Jats" trace their origins from "nand vansh" and so on.
    How is it possible that a larger community can come out of a smaller community? It has always been the other way around smaller communities came out of larger communities.
    Jats( including Jats of Pakistan and Afghianistan) for a very big community. The Pathans and some other Afghan tribes are also from the same origin, where as i have not been able to find as existence of any "Yadu vanshis" in Pakistan. So how is it possible that a very big community like "Jats" came out of a small community like "Yadu vanshi"?

    That is why the concept of "Jutt" tribe is more feasible.
    Last edited by maddhan1979; June 2nd, 2013 at 12:54 PM.

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  13. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by saurabhjaglan View Post




    Yadu was the eldest son of Yayati (father of Yadavs). It is written in the Vishnu Puran that he did not inherit his father's throne. He, therefore, retired towards Punjab and Iran. He had five sons, of whom except Satjit and Krishna, three remained childless. Satjit had three sons Bibai (Biveya), Hai (Heya) whose descendants are Jats of 'Heer' gotra and Ahai (Aheya) who founded the Ahir community.[16]
    most Ahirs write "Yadav", but not all Yadavs are Ahirs. Make sense? Only Yaduvanshi's of Haryana, Rajasthan, Gujrat,Pakistan, Upper doab ,and bundelkhand are yaduvanshi's and "YADAVS".
    Yadu Vanshi Ahirs have common gotras with the Jats (eg, Dahiya, Dagar, Balwan, Rathi, Thakran, Dhaliwal , Lamba, Mahlawat,Nirban, Dalal, Solanki, Tomar, Nikumbh, Atri etc)
    The Book by Ram Swarup Joon
    1938, 1967 (Eng Tr)

    * 2 Ahirs (Abhiras) And Jats
    * 3 Ahir Gotras
    * 4 Ahir Raj in Rewari...

    Ahirs in North Western parts of India have similar customs to the JATS. Widow marriage is practiced by them.

    etc etc...

    I hope our jat historians would get something out for the research done by Sir Henry.
    The book stated above is not based on archaeology and scientific discovery. It is based on folklore and religious sentiments, which are mostly driven by vestigial interests.

    Ahirs are spread across vast areas, whereas Jats are more localized and north-western in origin. It has also happened in the past and in present when people move to certain area they tend to loose their original identity. So it is probable that tribes which started living close to "Jat areas", started writing Jat family names, as "Jats" were always a fighting force throughout ages.

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  15. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by maddhan1979 View Post
    You will find similarities to "Jats" in all the communities which have been living close to "Jat villages" or places where "Jats lived" for hundreds of years. This similarity will not only be in Yadav but all other communities as well.

    The main reasons is "Jats" have been fighting wars as long as history can remember. Whenever someone faught wars in past man used to die in wars, left overs of the war were the women, children and old people. In ancient society if a woman was left alone without a man she was either exploited, sold as slave or in later history become a "Sati". So in older times the best way for the women to survive was to marry any man she could find. Naturally "Jat" villages were empty because men were killed in wars. So the only option left in front of the women was to marry men of other communities.
    U will find people of other communities who live near "Jat", villages look like "Jats". This might be one of the reasons. If u go away from the area where "Jats" do not live, then u find people of the same community but they look very different.

    Widow remarriage in "Jats". Widow marrying younger brother of her dead husband might have been an outcome of the same social scenario that existed in north west of India for hundreds of years.

    I have read theories that lot of "Jats" trace their origins from "nand vansh" and so on.
    How is it possible that a larger community can come out of a larger community? It has always been the other way around smaller communities came out of larger communities.
    Jats( including Jats of Pakistan and Afghianistan) for a very big community. The Pathans and some other Afghan tribes are also from the same origin, where as i have not been able to find as existence of any "Yadu vanshis" in Pakistan. So how is it possible that a very big community came out of a small community?

    That is why the concept of "Jutt" tribe is more feasible.
    I know Jat people who write family name as "Bharadwaj", where as "Bharadwaj" is a Brahmin family name.

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  17. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by maddhan1979 View Post
    You will find similarities to "Jats" in all the communities which have been living close to "Jat villages" or places where "Jats lived" for hundreds of years. This similarity will not only be in Yadav but all other communities as well.

    The main reasons is "Jats" have been fighting wars as long as history can remember. Whenever someone faught wars in past man used to die in wars, left overs of the war were the women, children and old people. In ancient society if a woman was left alone without a man she was either exploited, sold as slave or in later history become a "Sati". So in older times the best way for the women to survive was to marry any man she could find. Naturally "Jat" villages were empty because men were killed in wars. So the only option left in front of the women was to marry men of other communities.
    U will find people of other communities who live near "Jat", villages look like "Jats". This might be one of the reasons. If u go away from the area where "Jats" do not live, then u find people of the same community but they look very different.

    Widow remarriage in "Jats". Widow marrying younger brother of her dead husband might have been an outcome of the same social scenario that existed in north west of India for hundreds of years.

    I have read theories that lot of "Jats" trace their origins from "nand vansh" and so on.
    How is it possible that a larger community can come out of a smaller community? It has always been the other way around smaller communities came out of larger communities.
    Jats( including Jats of Pakistan and Afghianistan) for a very big community. The Pathans and some other Afghan tribes are also from the same origin, where as i have not been able to find as existence of any "Yadu vanshis" in Pakistan. So how is it possible that a very big community like "Jats" came out of a small community like "Yadu vanshi"?

    That is why the concept of "Jutt" tribe is more feasible.
    There is almost none or very little migration of Jats in in ancient history or few hundred years ago in east side.
    Tell me one thing:

    Why "Jats" are not found in eastern UP and beyond, and if they are found, they are found in very less amount. Ahirs on the other hand are found across several places and lot of people with Ahir background write "Rao" after their first name and these people are found in central and south India as well.

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  19. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by maddhan1979 View Post
    I know Jat people who write family name as "Bharadwaj", where as "Bharadwaj" is a Brahmin family name.
    Names of gotras or clans are in most cases derived from ancient great men or place names; hence Bhardwaj Risi clan in not monopoly of any one caste found in India. Bhardwajs are found in Brahmins, Jats and carpenters [Badhi in Punjab and Khatis in Haryana].
    History is best when created, better when re-constructed and worst when invented.

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  21. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by maddhan1979 View Post
    There is almost none or very little migration of Jats in in ancient history or few hundred years ago in east side.
    Tell me one thing:

    Why "Jats" are not found in eastern UP and beyond, and if they are found, they are found in very less amount. Ahirs on the other hand are found across several places and lot of people with Ahir background write "Rao" after their first name and these people are found in central and south India as well.
    Friend,

    If you go through the history of Abhiras [Ahiras of today] and Yadavas, you will find a mix up both today designated as Yadavas.

    Abhiras came to India via Punjab and were pushed by late comers from Central Asia across Yamuna

    and Ganges whereas Yadus penetrated from Sindh and Gujarat Side and from there descended towards

    south. Later, Eastern U.P. and North Western Bihar became their meeting place.

    Regarding Rao, please note all Ahiras or Yadavas are not Rao.

    It was in medieval times that the rulers of India bestowed the title of Rao on some selected

    people who were allotted Jagirs or Istemdari rights as was done in the case of Rao Tej Singh

    of Rewari, the ancestor of Rao Inderjit Singh, present MP from Rewari-Gurgaon.

    Rao in South India are Brahmins as our late PM PV Narsimharao was.

    Rao is a gotra of Jats also.

    Therefore, remain cautious while trying to understand some person on the basis of his clan name as it is a very jumbled affair.

    There seem to be no apparent similarity among two castes clan names as of today, but they are two separate identities as

    regards Jats and Ahiras/Yadavas are concerned.
    History is best when created, better when re-constructed and worst when invented.

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  23. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by DrRajpalSingh View Post
    Names of gotras or clans are in most cases derived from ancient great men or place names; hence Bhardwaj Risi clan in not monopoly of any one caste found in India. Bhardwajs are found in Brahmins, Jats and carpenters [Badhi in Punjab and Khatis in Haryana].
    Dr. Rajpal,
    If i recall correctly, ancient societies were divided into warriors, priests, workers and so on.
    Most of the family names in any community trace their origin to the source, so in the case of "Bharadwaj" the source becomes a priest.
    If i am wrong, then kindly answer this question: Why do we not have priests of other "Jat" gotras? So who is coming from where becomes a tracing issue here. Most of the "Jat" gotras are coming from warrior origins. There is nothing wrong, right or great about it. Does not make anyone better or worse. It is just a fact.

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  25. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by DrRajpalSingh View Post
    Friend,

    If you go through the history of Abhiras [Ahiras of today] and Yadavas, you will find a mix up both today designated as Yadavas.

    Abhiras came to India via Punjab and were pushed by late comers from Central Asia across Yamuna

    and Ganges whereas Yadus penetrated from Sindh and Gujarat Side and from there descended towards

    south. Later, Eastern U.P. and North Western Bihar became their meeting place.

    Regarding Rao, please note all Ahiras or Yadavas are not Rao.

    It was in medieval times that the rulers of India bestowed the title of Rao on some selected

    people who were allotted Jagirs or Istemdari rights as was done in the case of Rao Tej Singh

    of Rewari, the ancestor of Rao Inderjit Singh, present MP from Rewari-Gurgaon.

    Rao in South India are Brahmins as our late PM PV Narsimharao was.

    Rao is a gotra of Jats also.

    Therefore, remain cautious while trying to understand some person on the basis of his clan name as it is a very jumbled affair.

    There seem to be no apparent similarity among two castes clan names as of today, but they are two separate identities as

    regards Jats and Ahiras/Yadavas are concerned.

    I am not sure about the migration thing that u stated. I never came across any migration issue relating to Ahirs. Their absence from north-west of Bharat(Afghanistan, Pakistan) seems to tell a different story. The rest of your statements are very true.

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  27. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by DrRajpalSingh View Post
    Friend,

    If you go through the history of Abhiras [Ahiras of today] and Yadavas, you will find a mix up both today designated as Yadavas.

    Abhiras came to India via Punjab and were pushed by late comers from Central Asia across Yamuna

    and Ganges whereas Yadus penetrated from Sindh and Gujarat Side and from there descended towards

    south. Later, Eastern U.P. and North Western Bihar became their meeting place.

    Regarding Rao, please note all Ahiras or Yadavas are not Rao.

    It was in medieval times that the rulers of India bestowed the title of Rao on some selected

    people who were allotted Jagirs or Istemdari rights as was done in the case of Rao Tej Singh

    of Rewari, the ancestor of Rao Inderjit Singh, present MP from Rewari-Gurgaon.

    Rao in South India are Brahmins as our late PM PV Narsimharao was.

    Rao is a gotra of Jats also.

    Therefore, remain cautious while trying to understand some person on the basis of his clan name as it is a very jumbled affair.

    There seem to be no apparent similarity among two castes clan names as of today, but they are two separate identities as

    regards Jats and Ahiras/Yadavas are concerned.
    Lot of Yadavs told me they and Ahirs are the same people. It seems Dr. Janghu, u have a different theory.

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  29. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by maddhan1979 View Post
    Lot of Yadavs told me they and Ahirs are the same people. It seems Dr. Janghu, u have a different theory.
    I am not propounding any new or old theory. The fact of history is initially we find Yadu as a historic person in Rigveda itself. Those people who believe in descend from him are called Yadavas mainly found in Gujarat, Maharashtra, Madhya Pradesh and Bihar.

    Abhirs came as a late wave from Central Asia and settled in northern India like parts of Haryana, Rajasthan and UP, their name in due course changed to Ahirs.

    The two tribes in ancient times came to have inter relationship like marriages and other social relations and so mixed that now none can find any differentiation between the two.

    Thanks and regards,

    P.S. : NB

    But this is not proper place for this discussion as this section has been allotted to discussion on various aspects of JAT HISTORY. If someone is interested to share general history topics, he can choose the other section allotted to for that purpose.
    History is best when created, better when re-constructed and worst when invented.

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  31. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by maddhan1979 View Post
    I am not sure about the migration thing that u stated. I never came across any migration issue relating to Ahirs. Their absence from north-west of Bharat(Afghanistan, Pakistan) seems to tell a different story. The rest of your statements are very true.
    There is a lot of literature about the history of migration and immigration on ancient tribes of India including Abhirs and Yadus. If you are interested you can have access to the relevant books available in libraries on their history.

    But I am at present juncture not interested to prolong this discussion.
    History is best when created, better when re-constructed and worst when invented.

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  33. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by DrRajpalSingh View Post
    There is a lot of literature about the history of migration and immigration on ancient tribes of India including Abhirs and Yadus. If you are interested you can have access to the relevant books available in libraries on their history.

    But I am at present juncture not interested to prolong this discussion.

    I am interested in "Solid facts", solid facts do not connect to any of the "folk lore" or "Mytholgical" things as stated in the old books written on "Mythology and Folk Lore".
    We find "Jat" family names all across "Europe" but we do not find "other community family names".
    This is odd, if "other communities trace their origins to Indo European people then they should also have their family names in Europe and where ever Indo European people live.

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  35. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by maddhan1979 View Post
    I am interested in "Solid facts", solid facts do not connect to any of the "folk lore" or "Mytholgical" things as stated in the old books written on "Mythology and Folk Lore".
    We find "Jat" family names all across "Europe" but we do not find "other community family names".
    This is odd, if "other communities trace their origins to Indo European people then they should also have their family names in Europe and where ever Indo European people live.
    Jats and Ahirs/Yadavas are two separate castes in Indian social set up and have their separate history.

    Since I have already told I have nothing to do with Ahir/Yadava history at the present juncture; So kindly excuse me as I am not going to be dragged in this discussion any longer.

    Yes, You are free to keep up your quest for ''solid facts'' for Yadava/Ahir/Abhir history.

    May God grant you success in your mission !
    Last edited by DrRajpalSingh; June 8th, 2013 at 10:21 AM.
    History is best when created, better when re-constructed and worst when invented.

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  37. #19
    JATS are totally different from YADAV . Jat is an INDO European Comminity , Jats with similar casts are all across the India/Asia & Europe . JATS behavior is totally different from other Indian community, I think JAT & YADAV can never be from same origin, Ahir are so cunning or clever that JATS are not near to them, JATS are very straight forward community while Ahirs ( Yadav ) are not , JATS are social while AHIRS are not. See the behavior of JATS 1. Sh.Mahender Singh Ticket fought for farmers and not only for the JATS , farming community include a number of communities . 2. Sir Chottu Ram great example of Social welfare 3. Ch Charan Singh - Abolished Jamindari System in UP and it benefits the others. 4. Ch.Devi Lal - Old Age Pension - Very Great social Initiative . 5. Maharaja Ranjit Singh - He fought to get right for all the community. 6. Maharaja Suraj Mal - He fought for the farmers , he was not fond of Maharaja but became Maharaja to fight the wrong rulers of that time. 7. Manvir Singh Tewatia - Bhatta Prasol Noida, Led the agitation in Noida for farmers , while on 5% of formers of that area are Jats. Have we ever seen any Yadav have done this kind of movement. Yadav always do something which benefit them and never think of society. Jats are social beings and always fight for society and not only for themselves. This is the major character difference between JATS and others. As far as widow marriage is concerned , it is common outside INDIA, In ISRAEL it is same as in JATS, a widow of elder brother marry the unmarried young brother. From community behavior it seems that JAT is INDO-EUROPIAN Community.

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  39. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by krishdel View Post
    JATS are totally different from YADAV . Jat is an INDO European Comminity , Jats with similar casts are all across the India/Asia & Europe . JATS behavior is totally different from other Indian community, I think JAT & YADAV can never be from same origin, Ahir are so cunning or clever that JATS are not near to them, JATS are very straight forward community while Ahirs ( Yadav ) are not , JATS are social while AHIRS are not. See the behavior of JATS 1. Sh.Mahender Singh Ticket fought for farmers and not only for the JATS , farming community include a number of communities . 2. Sir Chottu Ram great example of Social welfare 3. Ch Charan Singh - Abolished Jamindari System in UP and it benefits the others. 4. Ch.Devi Lal - Old Age Pension - Very Great social Initiative . 5. Maharaja Ranjit Singh - He fought to get right for all the community. 6. Maharaja Suraj Mal - He fought for the farmers , he was not fond of Maharaja but became Maharaja to fight the wrong rulers of that time. 7. Manvir Singh Tewatia - Bhatta Prasol Noida, Led the agitation in Noida for farmers , while on 5% of formers of that area are Jats. Have we ever seen any Yadav have done this kind of movement. Yadav always do something which benefit them and never think of society. Jats are social beings and always fight for society and not only for themselves. This is the major character difference between JATS and others. As far as widow marriage is concerned , it is common outside INDIA, In ISRAEL it is same as in JATS, a widow of elder brother marry the unmarried young brother. From community behavior it seems that JAT is INDO-EUROPIAN Community.
    Rightly said.

    Jats have defended and fed the country in one form or other throughout ages.

    What did they get in return?

    Jats like any other farmer/warrior community remains in most exploited position. A farmer or a soldier never bothers about sun, rain, thunder, cold, wild animals, snakes or whatever, he always does the most effort and devotes his life to his work. Still, throughout ages, he remains in the most exploited position. He faces fear and reality of death due to his working condition, still he works his best. As a soldier he goes off from his family for months, he devotes his time and life for a nation, a nation which rarely recognizes his value. This farmer/soldier like every other civilian faces harassment due to corruption, bad politics, bad infrastructure, bad government polices.
    Leave aside the untold sacrifices that the ancestors of these farmers/ soldiers gave, they can never be valued in any human term.

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