History and Historians on Jat Mauryan Empire[ founded by Chandragupta in c 323 BC]

[prashantacmet]

Ravi ji and Rajpal ji...do you think that what you write that is always with a substantial evidence and others are just writing crap, going off-topic, picking wrong articles?..your comments does not seem in a very good taste . These comments are almost sort of discouraging for the members who are naive but trying to contribute their bit.. Hope you understand it!!

Regards,
Prashant

[DrRajpalSingh]

Mr. Prashant,

Thanks for your opinion, judgement and and words of wisdom. I shall be more cautious in future not to injure the susceptibilities of the enthusiasts of history. They are free to write as they like as is the rule in a democratic society.

Forgetting my past comments, come forward and join free for all history writing sessions!!!

Thanks

[DrRajpalSingh]

All the rivers run into the sea; yet the sea is not full. Therefore everybody is welcome to contribute in reconstruction of and filling the gaps in the History of the Jats by posting their well researched articles in various threads in progress on the Jat History section. If someone has been offended by my unintended comments, the same is regretted.Leaving prejudices aside let us join hands to enrich this section with a missionary zeal by providing history based on facts and nothing else.I always follow the dictum of Socrates: 'Know Thyself'.

I never live in make believe world as I know my shortcomings and limitations. Neither I claim monopoly on any aspect of knowledge and nor cease my search for those persons who are more learned as well as better equipped to share their knowledge with me without grumble. But I also always remember:

I have to live with myself, and so

I want to be fit for myself to know;

I want to be able as days go by,

Always to look myself straight in the eye.

[DrRajpalSingh]

Ravi ji and Rajpal ji...do you think that what you write that is always with a substantial evidence and others are just writing crap, going off-topic, picking wrong articles?..your comments does not seem in a very good taste . These comments are almost sort of discouraging for the members who are naive but trying to contribute their bit.. Hope you understand it!!

Regards,
Prashant

Thanks for making me understand!

[lrburdak]

हमारी सोच और काम के तरीके में भिन्नता हो सकती है. परन्तु यह ध्यान हमें रखना पडेगा कि यहाँ हमारा सबका एक लक्ष्य ये है जाट के बारे में अधिक से अधिक जानना और खोई हुई इतिहास की कड़ियों को जोड़ना. इसके लिए हमें हमेशा खुले दिमाग से दूसरे के विचारों का स्वागत करना होगा. थोडा धैर्य भी रखना पडेगा कि जो सदस्य जानकारी उपलब्ध करा रहा है वह ऐसा करने में सफल हो सके. एक पौधे को बढ़ने और उस पर फूल खिलने में समय लगता है.

[DrRajpalSingh]

हमारी सोच और काम के तरीके में भिन्नता हो सकती है. परन्तु यह ध्यान हमें रखना पडेगा कि यहाँ हमारा सबका एक लक्ष्य ये है जाट के बारे में अधिक से अधिक जानना और खोई हुई इतिहास की कड़ियों को जोड़ना. इसके लिए हमें हमेशा खुले दिमाग से दूसरे के विचारों का स्वागत करना होगा. थोडा धैर्य भी रखना पडेगा कि जो सदस्य जानकारी उपलब्ध करा रहा है वह ऐसा करने में सफल हो सके. एक पौधे को बढ़ने और उस पर फूल खिलने में समय लगता है.

Burdak ji Aap ki nek salah se mein puri tarah sahamat hote huye Sabhi contributors se isme yogdaan ke liya appeal karta hun.

Lekin phodhe par acchhi quality ke phool aur phal lagen, usko sahi khad paani dena bhee jaroori hai. Humen yah nahin bhulna chahiya ki Itihas ka khad pani parmanik samagri hei.

Yadi hum chahte hain ki sodhpar adharit Jat itihas likhkar khoi hui itihas ki kadiyon ko jodana hai to references par adharit samagri ke liye agrah karana kisi ka apmaan karana ya podhe ko phool lagne se rokana bilkul nahin mana jana chahaiya.

Dhanyavad.

[DrRajpalSingh]

Writing about the origin of Maurya gotra, Jatland wiki page informs us: "They originated from Raja Maan Maurya (मान मौर्य)".

No reference has been cited to support it.

Could anybody supply the authentic source on the issue.

[Moar]

Moar Sahib what about the year and place of publication of the Sagar's book quoted by you. Thanks.

Sir, Please check the visitor's messages link at Your profile page on Jatland Forums; the link ( Google Books ) to full view link to the book has been provided; so, that You can read the book online !!

Please be aware of the facility provided by Google at : http://books.google.com/

[Moar]

Writing about the origin of Maurya gotra, Jatland wiki page informs us: "They originated from Raja Maan Maurya (मान मौर्य)".

No reference has been cited to support it.

Could anybody supply the authentic source on the issue.

Dear Sir, this statement is not there on the page to reflect the origin of the Maurya clan !! NO.

Actually, as You would surely be aware that history records that Jats have had, and still have Maur & Maud as their clan names.
The scrutiny of Jat clans reveals that the clan name Maurya ( Kyoye Maurya ) has survived among Jats, and they are known to call themselves call themselves ( or refer to themselves ) as "Khoye Maurya" ( meaning "lost Maurya" in Hindi ). Please visit : Khoye Maurya .

The case seems that they are still emotionally connected to one of the ruling dynasties from their clan, and the King, Maan Maurya.
And by calling themselves ( or referring to themselves ) as Kyoye Mauryas, they emotionally shouts their story ( or what has happened to them over time ) !!

The Jats of Khoye Maurya clan are found ( at-least ) in the villages Puranpur, Adampur, Bankpur, Timurpur, Kawahiwala, Jalalpur and Ghumdaoti in Bijnor district.

This scenario reminds Me of a famous quote: "Memories die hard" !!

I will soon fix the article as per the above description to avoid any possible misunderstanding, and Thanks for the query !!

---------------------

Jahajpur and Kumbhalgarh areas in Mewar region in Rajasthan were ruled by Mauryas. Samprati Maurya, grandson of Ashoka, was ruler of Rajasthan. Samprati constructed many forts in Rajasthan. Famous fort is that of Kumbhalgarh. On ruins of this fort Maharana Kumbha constructed present historical fort. Samprati constructed a fort in Jahajpur also. Samprati Maurya was a follower of Jainism. There are ruins of ancient Jaina temples in Jahajpur.

Many branches of Mauryas ruled in Rajasthan. Mauryas defeated Yaudheyas in Shekhawati region who moved to northern parts of Bikaner such as Sindharani, Maroth etc, where they lived for a long period.

Please read : http://www.jatland.com/home/Maurya#History

and,

Also read : http://www.jatland.com/home/Mor ( the root word ).

Actually, most of the information has been added to the article ' Mor ', I will soon add / share the respective information on the article ' Maurya ' as well !!

[narenderkharb]

It gives a good feeling to see a positive change in history section .Worthy members are taking more interest,.. questions are raised and welcomed too.

Posters are more conscious about the quality of their write ups.


All thanks to efforts of worthy Seniors and passionate young Turks .

[DrRajpalSingh]

Dear Sir, this statement is not there on the page to reflect the origin of the Maurya clan !! NO.
.......................
..........................

Friend,

It is very much there, please see below:

Maurya (मौर्य) Mori (मोरी) Mauri (मौरी) is gotra of Jats found in,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Contents

[edit]Origin

They originated from Raja Maan Maurya (मान मौर्य)."


Any discerning eye can understand to whose origin the word 'they' refers; it is none else than to Mauryas et all.
Further, it is requested to Wiki editors to consider merger of all the pages on Mor/Maurya/Khoye Maurya, Maan Maurya, More et all { Full house of Mor/Moar/Maurya/More etc} Gotras as one page or pages in continuation.

Thanks

[DrRajpalSingh]

Friends share some points related to Chandragupta Maurya accession issue:

We have seen that date furnished by the Buddhist chroniclers for deciding the chronological account leading to deciding the issue of accession/Sovereignty by Chandragupta Maurya are open to comment and the same is true about Bhadrasvara, Hemachandra and Merutunga. So we have to turn to the clues furnished by classical accounts which refer to several famous episodes in the career of Chandragupta Maurya with hints as to their chronological sequence and compare with the evidence supplemented by the testimony of Asokan inscriptions.
Writing on the subject quoting the testimony of the classic writers, H.C. Raychaudhuri avers: “ He [Chandragupta] met Alexander while yet a ‘stripling’ and not yet ‘called to royalty’ (326-325 B.C.) and mounted the throne of India ‘not long afterwards’ by instigating the Indians to overthrow the existing government, or according to another interpretation, soliciting the Indians to support his new sovereignty; thereafter he prepared to attack Alexander’s prefects; the latter were put to death and the yoke of servitude was shaken off from the neck of India ‘after Alexander’s death’ (i.e. after 323 B.C.). Chandragupta was reigning over India, when Seleucus was laying the foundation of his future greatness.” (Chandragupta and Bindusara, p. 137)

N.B. Testimony culled from other sources will be given in the next part and then review.

[prashantacmet]

Rajapl ji..title of this thread is "History and Historians on Jat Mauryan Empire[ founded by Chandragupta in c 323 BC]"

what are your references that claimed Mauryan to be JAT?

[Moar]

. . . . mounted the throne of India ‘not long afterwards’ by instigating the Indians to overthrow the existing government, or according to another interpretation, soliciting the Indians to support his new sovereignty . . . . (Chandragupta and Bindusara, p. 137)

Interesting !!

[ravichaudhary]

Friends share some points related to Chandragupta Maurya accession issue:

We have seen that date furnished by the Buddhist chroniclers for deciding the chronological account leading to deciding the issue of accession/Sovereignty by Chandragupta Maurya are open to comment and the same is true about Bhadrasvara, Hemachandra and Merutunga. So we have to turn to the clues furnished by classical accounts which refer to several famous episodes in the career of Chandragupta Maurya with hints as to their chronological sequence and compare with the evidence supplemented by the testimony of Asokan inscriptions.
Writing on the subject quoting the testimony of the classic writers, H.C. Raychaudhuri avers: “ He [Chandragupta] met Alexander while yet a ‘stripling’ and not yet ‘called to royalty’ (326-325 B.C.) and mounted the throne of India ‘not long afterwards’ by instigating the Indians to overthrow the existing government, or according to another interpretation, soliciting the Indians to support his new sovereignty; thereafter he prepared to attack Alexander’s prefects; the latter were put to death and the yoke of servitude was shaken off from the neck of India ‘after Alexander’s death’ (i.e. after 323 B.C.). Chandragupta was reigning over India, when Seleucus was laying the foundation of his future greatness.” (Chandragupta and Bindusara, p. 137)

N.B. Testimony culled from other sources will be given in the next part and then review.

No Greek source mentions the name Chandra Gupta Maurya.

[DrRajpalSingh]

No Greek source mentions the name Chandra Gupta Maurya.

You are absolutely correct Chaudhary Sahib.

Greek and Latin writers frequently corrupt the name of Chandragupta Murya, the first Mauryan Emperor of India.

It, however, is distinctly referred to in the Junagarh Rock Inscription of Rudradaman I. It is also known to Patanjali and a host of Indian chroniclers, playwrights, poets and even philosophers. Among classical writers the nearest approximation to the correct name [Sandrokoptos] is made by Phylarchus, who is quoted by Athenaeus [see, Smith V A, Ashoka, 3rd ed., p. 12]. Arrian and Justin have Sandrocottus. Appian and Plutarch corrupt it into Aandrocottus.It was Sir William Jones who solved the puzzle and found in the appellations used by the classical historians and geographers variant forms of the name of the first Maurya Emperor of India as known from Indian sources.Therefore, the name of the founder of the Mauryan ruling dynasty in India with Patliputara as its capital has been accepted as Chandragupta Maurya, who was father of Bindusara [Amitraghata] and grandfather of Asoka, the Great.

Thanks and regards.

[ravichaudhary]

Greek and Latin writers frequently corrupt the name of Chandragupta Murya, the first Mauryan Emperor of India. .

This is an assumption.

[nrao]

Good topic and good discussion between Ravi and Dr Rajpal Singh. Does anybody know the prakrit for Chandra Gupta, which is what most people used that time. It is the Greek form (Sandakottus or Sandrakottus) of his prakrit name which we read in history books. This is my view.

[DrRajpalSingh]

This is an assumption.

Chaudhary Sahib,

Even if it is assumption, it is supported by the Indian sources referred to above and thus 'assumption' becomes more reliable and help us to come out to light than to reain gropping in the darkness for ever.

If better source of contemporary or near contemporary sources come to our knowledge, we are open to replace the assumed identity of Chandragupta Maurya accepted by the hisstorians so far.

We shall be thankful to anybody who comes forward to enlighten us to identify as to whom the Indian and classical writers are pointing as the founder of the Maurya empire in India in the last quarter of the 4th century B.C. i.e. in the aftermath of the invasion of the Alexander?

Thanks and regards.

[ravichaudhary]

Chaudhary Sahib,

Even if it is assumption, it is supported by the Indian sources referred to above and thus 'assumption' becomes more reliable and help us to come out to light than to reain gropping in the darkness for ever.
.

Assumptions are assumptions.

That is all they are.


By its very nature, an assumption is unsupportable.

No Indian source corroborates the Greek Source

Ravi Chaudhary