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Thread: How Gathwala Jats got the title “Malik”

  1. #21
    Rajpal ji, is wikipedia ko pichhle 6 saal se closely track kar raha hu, Jats history ko le ke....koi bhi aise 6 months consecutively nahin nikle honge jab ye log hamaare baare informations ko tod-marod ke pesh nahin karte hain.....2006 se shuru ki thi maine ye cheej, us time wikipedia pe Jats ko le ke itna content hota tha ki 25 pages ke aaspaas ka word doc ban jaaye aur aaj dekh lijiye kitna bacha hai.

    Please iski reference kisi aur matter mein badhiya ho sakti hai.....Jaaton ke matter mein to bilkul bhi nahin...mujhe to unki talaash hai jo wikipedia ke Jat History section ko operate karta hai....

    rahi baat ye Chauhan waali, so plz don't forget and as Ravi sir ne bhi kaha ki 5th A.D. se pahle Rajput naam ki koi cheej thi hi nahin....so "Jaaton se Rajput ho sakte hain, Rajputon se Jats nahin".....aur Rajput caste nahin hoti......Rajput to jo rajgharaane se hua wo hi rajput ho gaya.....Jaise Patiala Rajgharana, Bharatpur, Jind, and so on.....Rajput koi caste thode hi hai....Rajput to rajgharaane ki families ko bolte hain jo kisi bhi caste mein ho sakti hain......ha unkse failaav se agar koi village ya basti bani hogi to usko beshak bol lo Rajput...moreover......

    and as per Ravi Sir's this comment:

    [I forgot to add that the term Rajput was not invented until the 10Th century +. pron=babky the 12 century AD.

    Yadhav has the Rajputs in the 5th century AD.

    Ravi Chaudhary]" batao aapki statement contrary hui ke nahin Ravi Sir waali ke....Ravi sir kahte hain ki 10th entury se pahle Rajput they hi nahin aur aap unko Mahabharat time mein ja ke dikha rahe ho.....?????? mere konse bade ki maanu main......Ravi sir ki ya Rajpal sir ki.....Laxman sir you would like to put some views on it?

    Wy can't we Jats create our own references instead looking each time on these Wikipedia and other bullshits, which keeps dwinding every moment around our history? QUOTE=DrRajpalSingh;323850]Ravi Ji,

    The wiki page on origin of the Gathwal's says that they are a branch of Chohans, which does not seem to hold good.

    The full quote is:

    "They have now switched over to the name
    Malik though in social functions,ceremonies and marriages etc. they still tell their gotra as Gathwal. Being good organizers they were called Gathwale. Origin of this gotra is word Organization (संगठन). [2]It is a branch of Chauhan.Gathwals are possibly the Gada (गद) of Mahabharata period or Gadavahara of the pre-Kushana and early Kushana period Gadavhara of Gadvar is simply changed into Gadval / Gathval by replacing the last “ R” with its sibilant interchangeable “L”"

    This needs further research as to ascertain their origin and to verify their connection with Chauhans, Gada, Gadvar, Gathwal and then change over to Malik.

    Thanks
    [/QUOTE]
    Last edited by phoolkumar; November 3rd, 2012 at 08:27 PM.

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  3. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by phoolkumar View Post
    Rajpal ji, is wikipedia ko pichhle 6 saal se closely track kar raha hu, Jats history ko le ke....koi bhi aise 6 months consecutively nahin nikle honge jab ye log hamaare baare informations ko tod-marod ke pesh nahin karte hain.....2006 se shuru ki thi maine ye cheej, us time wikipedia pe Jats ko le ke itna content hota tha ki 25 pages ke aaspaas ka word doc ban jaaye aur aaj dekh lijiye kitna bacha hai.

    Please iski reference kisi aur matter mein badhiya ho sakti hai.....Jaaton ke matter mein to bilkul bhi nahin...mujhe to unki talaash hai jo wikipedia ke Jat History section ko operate karta hai....

    rahi baat ye Chauhan waali, so plz don't forget and as Ravi sir ne bhi kaha ki 5th A.D. se pahle Rajput naam ki koi cheej thi hi nahin....so "Jaaton se Rajput ho sakte hain, Rajputon se Jats nahin".....aur Rajput caste nahin hoti......Rajput to jo rajgharaane se hua wo hi rajput ho gaya.....Jaise Patiala Rajgharana, Bharatpur, Jind, and so on.....Rajput koi caste thode hi hai....Rajput to rajgharaane ki families ko bolte hain jo kisi bhi caste mein ho sakti hain......ha unkse failaav se agar koi village ya basti bani hogi to usko beshak bol lo Rajput...moreover......

    and as per Ravi Sir's this comment:

    [I forgot to add that the term Rajput was not invented until the 10Th century +. pron=babky the 12 century AD.

    Yadhav has the Rajputs in the 5th century AD.

    Ravi Chaudhary]" batao aapki statement contrary hui ke nahin Ravi Sir waali ke....Ravi sir kahte hain ki 10th entury se pahle Rajput they hi nahin aur aap unko Mahabharat time mein ja ke dikha rahe ho.....?????? mere konse bade ki maanu main......Ravi sir ki ya Rajpal sir ki.....Laxman sir you would like to put some views on it?

    Wy can't we Jats create our own references instead looking each time on these Wikipedia and other bullshits, which keeps dwinding every moment around our history?
    ..........
    Friend,
    Perhaps you could not grasp the meaning of the post and started to attribute the things which I never said. To put the record straight, kindly permit to say:

    1. That, the quote is from the Jatland wiki page and not from wikipedia.

    2. That, I have already said that Rajputs as a caste did not exist before 8th century A D in India. [see, my post dated 2.12.2012, No. 15 in this very thread on page 1 please].

    3. That, Instread of coming out with clarification sought by me on certain points aimed at improving the Jatland.com Wiki Page, you have started to attribute a few things to which I have nothing to do.

    4. That in stead of giving my comments on the entry at Jatland Wiki page showing Chohans and Mahabharata references,I had concluded: " This needs further research as to ascertain their origin and to verify their connection with Chauhans, Gada, Gadvar, Gathwal and then change over to Malik.''

    Therefore, it is requested that first read my post and check the entry at Jat Gotra Gathawal page of Wiki Jatland.com and then come out with your fresh comment after withdrawing your unfounded remarks and thus avoid further misgivings in the minds of readers on the issue.

    Thanks and regards,

  4. #23
    फूल कुमार जी आपका दर्द मैं महसूस कर सकता हूँ. विकिपेडिया पर बहुत घपला हो रहा है. बहुत घालमेल है. मैं चौहान में जाट गोत के होने का खुलासा कर सकता हूँ. वस्तुत जब चौहान साम्राज्य रहा तब राजस्थान के अधिकांस जाट गोत इसमें सामिल थे. किसी भी शिलालेख में राजपूत शब्द का इस्तेमाल नहीं किया गया है. हाँ गोत्र का उल्लेख मिलता है. चौहान वस्तुत एक संघ था. एक शिलालेख में तो चौहान को जाती भी बताया गया है.

    आबू के वशिष्ठ मन्दिर की प्रशस्ति १३३७ ई. पर डॉ गोपीनाथ शर्मा लिखते हैं (डॉ गोपीनाथ शर्मा: 'राजस्थान के इतिहास के स्त्रोत', 1983, पृ.127) :

    यह प्रशस्ति आबू के वशिष्ठ के मन्दिर में लगी हुई है जिसक समय सम्वत १३९४ वैशाख सुदि १० गुरुवार है. इसमें वशिष्ठ आश्रम और मुनि के प्रभाव का वर्णन है. इस मन्दिर के लिये दिये गये गांवों के अनुदानों का वर्णन है जिनको चौहान तेजसिंह, देवड़ा श्री तिहुण, कान्हडदेव तथा चौहान सामन्तसिंह ने दिये थे. ये गांव झांबटु, ज्यातुलि, तेजलपुर, सीहलुण, वीरवाड़ा, तुहुलि, छापुलि, और किरणथलु थे. यहां कान्हडदेव के अधिकार क्षेत्र को राष्ट्र की संज्ञा दी है. चौहान वंश को जाति की संज्ञा दी गयी है. इसकी अन्तिम पंक्तियों क कुछ अंश इस प्रकर है -

    "देवड़ा श्री तिहुणाकेन स्वहस्तेन सीहलू ग्रामं दत्त तथा राजश्री कन्हडदेवेन स्वहस्तेन वीरवाड़ा ग्रामं दत्तं तथा चहुमान जातीय श्री सामन्तसिहेन लुहुलि छापुलि किरणयलुग्रामत्रयं दत्तं"

    यदि चौहान राजपूत होते तो यहाँ उनको राजपूत लिखने में क्या तकलीफ थी?

    चौहानों के शिलालेखों में पहली बार चौहान के नाडोल राज्य के सन 1176 के शिलालेख में राजपुत्र का उल्लेख मिलता है.

    डॉ. गोपीनाथ शर्मा [राजस्थान के इतिहास के स्तोत्र, प. 96] लिखते हैं कि यह लेख केल्हण के नाडोल राज्य (वर्तमान देसूरी तहसील जिला पाली, राजस्थान) में नाणक भोक्ता राजपुत्र लषण आदि परिवार द्वारा प्रत्येक रहट से पैदावार का कुछ भाग शांतिनाथ की यात्रा निमित्त अनुदान दिया, ये ग्राम पंचकुल समक्ष दिया गया. इससे पंचकुल जैसी संस्था की विशेषता का परिचय मिलाता है. इसका मूल पाठ इस प्रकार है:

    "संवत 1233 ज्येष्ठ बदी 13 गुरौ अघेहं श्री नदूल महाराजाधिराज श्री केल्हण देवराज्ये वर्तमान श्री कीर्तिपाल देववुत्रै सिनाणकं भोक्ता राजपुत्र लषण पाल राजपुत्र अभयपाल राज्ञी श्री महिबल देवी सहितै: श्री शांतिनाथ देव यात्रा निमित्तं भड़िया उवअरघट उरहरि मध्यात् गूजर तुहार १ जय ग्राम पंचकुल समक्षि एतद् दानं कृतं पुण्याय. "

    परन्तु चौहानों के राजपुत्र बनने के बाद गिरने में कितनी देर लगी. सन 1192 में उनका पतन हो गया. जाट गोत्रों ने अपनी परम्पराएँ छोड़ना मंजूर नहीं किया.

    Research on history of Jat clans धागे में पहले कुछ पेजों में चौहान में पाए जाने वाले जाट गोत्रों पर रिसर्च दी गयी है आप वहां पढ़ सकते हैं.
    Laxman Burdak

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  6. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by phoolkumar View Post

    rahi baat ye Chauhan waali, so plz don't forget and as Ravi sir ne bhi kaha ki 5th A.D. se pahle Rajput naam ki koi cheej thi hi nahin....so "Jaaton se Rajput ho sakte hain, Rajputon se Jats nahin".....aur Rajput caste nahin hoti......Rajput to jo rajgharaane se hua wo hi rajput ho gaya.....Jaise Patiala Rajgharana, Bharatpur, Jind, and so on.....Rajput koi caste thode hi hai....Rajput to rajgharaane ki families ko bolte hain jo kisi bhi caste mein ho sakti hain......ha unkse failaav se agar koi village ya basti bani hogi to usko beshak bol lo Rajput...moreover......

    and as per Ravi Sir's this comment:

    [I forgot to add that the term Rajput was not invented until the 10Th century +. pron=babky the 12 century AD.

    Yadhav has the Rajputs in the 5th century AD.

    Ravi Chaudhary]" batao aapki statement contrary hui ke nahin Ravi Sir waali ke....Ravi sir kahte hain ki 10th entury se pahle Rajput they hi nahin aur aap unko Mahabharat time mein ja ke dikha rahe ho.....?????? mere konse bade ki maanu main......Ravi sir ki ya Rajpal sir ki.....Laxman sir you would like to put some views on it?

    Wy can't we Jats create our own references instead looking each time on these Wikipedia and other bullshits, which keeps dwinding every moment around our history? QUOTE=DrRajpalSingh;323850]Ravi Ji,

    The wiki page on origin of the Gathwal's says that they are a branch of Chohans, which does not seem to hold good.

    The full quote is:

    "They have now switched over to the name
    Malik though in social functions,ceremonies and marriages etc. they still tell their gotra as Gathwal. Being good organizers they were called Gathwale. Origin of this gotra is word Organization (संगठन). [2]It is a branch of Chauhan.Gathwals are possibly the Gada (गद) of Mahabharata period or Gadavahara of the pre-Kushana and early Kushana period Gadavhara of Gadvar is simply changed into Gadval / Gathval by replacing the last “ R” with its sibilant interchangeable “L”"

    This needs further research as to ascertain their origin and to verify their connection with Chauhans, Gada, Gadvar, Gathwal and then change over to Malik.

    Thanks
    [/QUOTE]

    That is why readers are encouraged to analyze the data for themselves and draw their own conclusions.

    Now that you have a taste of it,I hope you ( and others) will take a greater interest and enjoy the subject.

    It is much more fun

    Ravi Chaudhary

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  8. #25
    ek to ye "Wikipedia" dimaag mein itna ghus gaya hai ki jab bhi "Wiki" word mind mein aata hai to seedha "Wikipedia" ki site strike hoti hai, so I apologize for it Dr. Rajpal Ji, ok you were talking with reference to "wiki" page of our Jatland site.

    Thanks a lot Laxman sir, for the priceless input and Ravi sir.

    After all these views and inputs, I feel and as said in one post above too that I need to go to Gathwala Khap, villages and heads to bring-out indepth story around, "How Gathwala's got or adore "Malik" as their surname, though my late grandfather' point still seems most supporting and alone standing fact in support to my view on how Gathwala got "malik".

    Beside all useful and wonderful facts about history and origin of "Gathwala", my point on "Malik" still goes unanswered somehow.

  9. #26
    गठवाला गोत स अर मलिक टाइटल (उपाधी ) स ।
    :rockwhen you found a key to success,some ideot change the lock,*******BREAK THE DOOR.
    हक़ मांगने से नहीं मिलता , छिना जाता हे |
    अहिंसा कमजोरों का हथियार हे |
    पगड़ी संभाल जट्टा |
    मौत नु आंगालियाँ पे नचांदे , ते आपां जाट कुहांदे |

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  11. #27
    Battle of Chamkaur 1000000 vs 41
    Battle of Saragarhi 10000 vs 21

    If these can happen then why the one in subject here can't happen?
    One who doesn't know own roots and culture, their social identity is like a letter without address and they are culturally slave to philosophies of others.

    Reunion of Haryana state of pre-1857 is the best way possible to get Jats united.

    Phool Kumar Malik - Gathwala Khap - Nidana Heights

  12. #28
    Bhai Phool kumar , aapka naam "phenku" kumar dharne ka man kar raha hai ....baaki gathwalo se bada youdha dharti pe koi hai ek na?..hahahahahha
    Become more and more innocent, less knowledgeable and more childlike. Take life as fun - because that's precisely what it is!

  13. #29
    Jo donon battles ooper mention ki hain, jiske base pe tum itne badhiya word yaani PM waale word "Fenku" se mujhe nawaaj rahe ho, ek baar jara google karke ya direct wikipedia pe ja ke chamkaur aur saragarhi ki battles ke baare yahi details padho jo maine di hain, fir fenku ki baat karna.... bolne se pahle side search/research kuchh karni na hoti, bas namkaran ko taiyar baitha rahta hai!


    Quote Originally Posted by prashantacmet View Post
    Bhai Phool kumar , aapka naam "phenku" kumar dharne ka man kar raha hai ....baaki gathwalo se bada youdha dharti pe koi hai ek na?..hahahahahha
    One who doesn't know own roots and culture, their social identity is like a letter without address and they are culturally slave to philosophies of others.

    Reunion of Haryana state of pre-1857 is the best way possible to get Jats united.

    Phool Kumar Malik - Gathwala Khap - Nidana Heights

  14. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by phoolkumar View Post
    Jo donon battles ooper mention ki hain, jiske base pe tum itne badhiya word yaani PM waale word "Fenku" se mujhe nawaaj rahe ho, ek baar jara google karke ya direct wikipedia pe ja ke chamkaur aur saragarhi ki battles ke baare yahi details padho jo maine di hain, fir fenku ki baat karna.... bolne se pahle side search/research kuchh karni na hoti, bas namkaran ko taiyar baitha rahta hai!
    yeh search kiya hua hai .....aap gathwalo ki kahani sunao bas....maine suna hai ki "jatwan" gathwala tha?...aur kaun kaun gathwale the aur unhone kitne dushman maare..detail main batao...
    Become more and more innocent, less knowledgeable and more childlike. Take life as fun - because that's precisely what it is!

  15. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by phoolkumar View Post
    Battle of Chamkaur 1000000 vs 41
    Battle of Saragarhi 10000 vs 21

    If these can happen then why the one in subject here can't happen?
    Wild imagination and Highly improbable; the battle of Chamkaur and 10,00,000 Mughal imperial army vs. 41 opponents. Kindly re-visit the sources of your research and come with authentic numbers of both the armies.
    History is best when created, better when re-constructed and worst when invented.

  16. #32
    mere ko tameej aur respect na dena to mat de, but jo hamaare heros rahe hain unko to respect de le kuchh, likha to aise hai jaise jatwan ji beta the aapke......

    aur jatwan ji ke baare padhna hai to JL pe padhi hui hain details, you may read

    Quote Originally Posted by prashantacmet View Post
    yeh search kiya hua hai .....aap gathwalo ki kahani sunao bas....maine suna hai ki "jatwan" gathwala tha?...aur kaun kaun gathwale the aur unhone kitne dushman maare..detail main batao...
    One who doesn't know own roots and culture, their social identity is like a letter without address and they are culturally slave to philosophies of others.

    Reunion of Haryana state of pre-1857 is the best way possible to get Jats united.

    Phool Kumar Malik - Gathwala Khap - Nidana Heights

  17. #33
    Sir, Please do the google or go to wikipedia by querying on google or direct.... ye figures wahin se le ke daale gaye hain, mere imaginations se nahin uthaye maine......

    Quote Originally Posted by DrRajpalSingh View Post
    Wild imagination and Highly improbable; the battle of Chamkaur and 10,00,000 Mughal imperial army vs. 41 opponents. Kindly re-visit the sources of your research and come with authentic numbers of both the armies.
    One who doesn't know own roots and culture, their social identity is like a letter without address and they are culturally slave to philosophies of others.

    Reunion of Haryana state of pre-1857 is the best way possible to get Jats united.

    Phool Kumar Malik - Gathwala Khap - Nidana Heights

  18. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by phoolkumar View Post
    mere ko tameej aur respect na dena to mat de, but jo hamaare heros rahe hain unko to respect de le kuchh, likha to aise hai jaise jatwan ji beta the aapke......

    aur jatwan ji ke baare padhna hai to JL pe padhi hui hain details, you may read
    "Phool kumar ji ko gussa kyoun aata hai"..yeh hi soch raha tha....baaki "ji" lagane se hi respect di jaati hai to kya sabke naame paache "ji" algata hai bhai tu?...baaki mujhe lagta hai ki respect to bas "gathwale" dena jaanet hai baaki to khamkha hi gheesni kar rahe hai...aur agar "ji' se hi hamesha respect di jaati hai to yeh "chamaar pana" aapko hi mubarak Phool kumar ji....hahahahha


    baaki ji se kitne achhe lagenge yeh naam "surajmal ji", "jawahar singh ji" , "nahar singh Ji', "bhagat singh ji"......hain na??...
    Last edited by prashantacmet; June 24th, 2014 at 06:16 PM.
    Become more and more innocent, less knowledgeable and more childlike. Take life as fun - because that's precisely what it is!

  19. #35
    aur pakad le kisi ko bhai, mujhe maafi de! koi kaam ki baat post karega to response de dunga, nahin to tera internet, teri kalam jo chaahe likh!

    Quote Originally Posted by prashantacmet View Post
    "Phool kumar ji ko gussa kyoun aata hai"..yeh hi soch raha tha....baaki "ji" lagane se hi respect di jaati hai to kya sabke naame paache "ji" algata hai bhai tu?...baaki mujhe lagta hai ki respect to bas "gathwale" dena jaanet hai baaki to khamkha hi gheesni kar rahe hai...aur agar "ji' se hi hamesha respect di jaati hai to yeh "chamaar pana" aapko hi mubarak Phool kumar ji....hahahahha


    baaki ji se kitne achhe lagenge yeh naam "surajmal ji", "jawahar singh ji" , "nahar singh Ji', "bhagat singh ji"......hain na??...
    One who doesn't know own roots and culture, their social identity is like a letter without address and they are culturally slave to philosophies of others.

    Reunion of Haryana state of pre-1857 is the best way possible to get Jats united.

    Phool Kumar Malik - Gathwala Khap - Nidana Heights

  20. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by phoolkumar View Post
    aur pakad le kisi ko bhai, mujhe maafi de! koi kaam ki baat post karega to response de dunga, nahin to tera internet, teri kalam jo chaahe likh!
    kaam ki baat ka jawaab kaha dete ho aap....? aapse bahadur gathwalo ke naam aur unki kahani pocchi thi...diya jawaab aapne?

    par bhai aapko moral lecture dene se fursat nahi hai...par koi nahi jab fursat ho tab likh dena....
    Become more and more innocent, less knowledgeable and more childlike. Take life as fun - because that's precisely what it is!

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  22. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by phoolkumar View Post
    Battle of Chamkaur 1000000 vs 41


    If these can happen then why the one in subject here can't happen?
    Bhai is ganit ke hisab se, Pakistani fauj par feteh karne ke liye kitne Gathwale chahiyenge?
    Mere Khayal me akela 'Nindana gaam' kaafi rehega, poore Pakistan,Afghanistan,Iraq, Egypt, Syria etc ke liye ;-)


    (Eeb nyu mat na keh diye, ak Pakistan dhore khud ke gathwale rahe arr . Arr je unn aale baadh se, fer to yo tagga delete marwana padega. Ke bera yo farmula un haath laag jya)

  23. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to ssgoyat For This Useful Post:

    cooljat (June 25th, 2014), desijat (June 25th, 2014), pankajpotaliya (June 25th, 2014)

  24. #38
    Last edited by ssgoyat; June 24th, 2014 at 10:27 PM. Reason: Duplicate Post

  25. #39
    Gathwalon ki jaroorat na bhai, akela Satinder Singh Goyat hi kaafi hai..... jai jat jai satinder .........


    Quote Originally Posted by ssgoyat View Post
    Bhai is ganit ke hisab se, Pakistani fauj par feteh karne ke liye kitne Gathwale chahiyenge?
    Mere Khayal me akela 'Nindana gaam' kaafi rehega, poore Pakistan,Afghanistan,Iraq, Egypt, Syria etc ke liye ;-)


    (Eeb nyu mat na keh diye, ak Pakistan dhore khud ke gathwale rahe arr . Arr je unn aale baadh se, fer to yo tagga delete marwana padega. Ke bera yo farmula un haath laag jya)
    One who doesn't know own roots and culture, their social identity is like a letter without address and they are culturally slave to philosophies of others.

    Reunion of Haryana state of pre-1857 is the best way possible to get Jats united.

    Phool Kumar Malik - Gathwala Khap - Nidana Heights

  26. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by phoolkumar View Post
    Gathwalon ki jaroorat na bhai, akela XYZ t hi kaafi hai..... jai jat jai XYZ .........
    nyu chingre te ke kaam challe se bhai.....



    ईब तो जनरल सुहाग के सेना अध्यक्ष बने पाच्छे उन ने इ बतावेगा एक गूगल / विकी पीडिआ पे या बात पाई थी।

    भारत सरकार का कई लाख करोड़ पैसा बचेगा अगर वो पूरी फ़ौज हटाकर केवल कुछ निन्दाने के गठ्वाल रख लें।


    (eeb chingre jaa beshak te bhai)
    Last edited by ssgoyat; June 25th, 2014 at 02:22 PM.

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