Results 1 to 20 of 122

Thread: Rigvedic River Sarswati In India or Iran

Hybrid View

Previous Post Previous Post   Next Post Next Post
  1. #1

    Rigvedic River Sarswati In India or Iran

    Over the years, there exists an unending controversy over the issue of the existence of Rigvedic 'Sarasvat.i' Some people say that in the Rigveda, the word 'Sarasvati' stands for a goddess in some verses while at other places it has been used to depict Indus.

    There is another group which identifies it as a river of central Asia, Iran, Afghanistan and also some equate it with even Oxus.

    Third group is of the view that the Rigvedic river flowed in Modern day Haryana and also say that the Rigvedic river dried up or took another route identifiable with Ghaggar of today. Since Ghaggar comes to plains near Pinjore-Kalka and Panchkula, near Chandigarh to plains, they equate it as the substitute place of the Rigvedic and Pauranic Sarasvati.

    Still some others identify it as Ghaggar but about the name of place/site according to them is defined as it originates to plains from Shivalik near Adi Badri in district Yamunanagar.

    Some believe that it continues to flow underground to merge with the Yamuna and the Ganga at Allahabad forming Sangam where Kumbha fair is held.



    In fact, these and many more points emerged during the course of debate/discussion on the -Chronology-of-Indian-History-Newer-discussion resulting in an unending controversy that blocked further smooth progress of the thread towards finding a logical conclusion.

    Therefore, those participants, who have something worth consideration in their possession, are welcome to join discussion here.

    Regards,
    History is best when created, better when re-constructed and worst when invented.

  2. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to DrRajpalSingh For This Useful Post:

    AbhikRana (May 25th, 2013), lrburdak (April 14th, 2013), rajpaldular (May 27th, 2013)

  3. #2
    1. Best way to prove would be to use the principle of exclusion. In India people often name their daughters after the name of rivers. By this logic I find no contradiction in having the name Saraswati for Goddess and river both.

    2. Do Iranian, central Asian or Afghan literature talk of any river sound in name similar to Saraswati? Not to best of my knowledge.

    3. There is enough literary and geological proof that river Saraswati flowed through present day North West India.

    4. This is not uncommon to have two rivers with the same name. We have quite a few of Gangas ( Budhi Ganga, Krishnganga etc). I won't therefore worry about another Saraswati joining Ganga and Yamuna at Sangam.


    RK^2
    There are many paths leading to God, politics is certainly not one of them...

  4. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to rkumar For This Useful Post:

    cooljat (April 15th, 2013), DrRajpalSingh (April 12th, 2013), lrburdak (April 14th, 2013), nrao (April 16th, 2013), rajpaldular (May 27th, 2013)

  5. #3
    Some relevant points to be discussed have been gleaned with which more could be added for purposeful discussion.

    Moreover, Shri Rajendra Kumar ji has presented his point of view on the presence or status of 'Sarasvati'.

    I think supporting the views sources must be quoted to make them authentic for future reference, isn't so?

    Comments please.
    History is best when created, better when re-constructed and worst when invented.

  6. The Following User Says Thank You to DrRajpalSingh For This Useful Post:

    rajpaldular (May 27th, 2013)

  7. #4
    The basic question to be delineated here is whether the Rig vedic 'Sarasvati' could be identified with lost Indian Sarasvati

    or

    some other river located in Iran or Afghanistan or elsewhere. Therefore, the scholars must concentrate to discuss this aspect.

    Many scholars believe that the Rigvedic verses and Zend Avesta refer to one river which has been written in Old Persian as Haravaiti and in Skt. Sarasvati. This surmise is supported by the changes governing rule governing change of Sanskrit S into H in Iranian as Skt. Sapta sindhu becomes Haptahindu as mentioned in Avesta as holy land created by Ahura Mazada. This linguistics similarity points to the times when Indo-Aryans and Indo Iranians lived together in ancient times.

    So far as Indian mythical river Sarasvati is concerned as described in Puranas and Mahabharata, its identification has of late zeroed on seasonal Ghaggar River, though the place of its coming down from the Shivalik range of mountains remains an issue of discussion and is yet to be finalized by the researchers.

    Whether these two identifications are right or wrong could be contested by the participants.

    Regards
    Last edited by DrRajpalSingh; April 12th, 2013 at 06:47 PM.
    History is best when created, better when re-constructed and worst when invented.

  8. The Following User Says Thank You to DrRajpalSingh For This Useful Post:

    rajpaldular (May 27th, 2013)

  9. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by DrRajpalSingh View Post
    The basic question to be delineated here is whether the Rig vedic 'Sarasvati' could be identified with lost Indian Sarasvati

    or

    some other river located in Iran or Afghanistan or elsewhere. Therefore, the scholars must concentrate to discuss this aspect.

    Many scholars believe that the Rigvedic verses and Zend Avesta refer to one river which has been written in Old Persian as Haravaiti and in Skt. Sarasvati. This surmise is supported by the changes governing rule governing change of Sanskrit S into H in Iranian as Skt. Sapta sindhu becomes Haptahindu as mentioned in Avesta as holy land created by Ahura Mazada. This linguistics similarity points to the times when Indo-Aryans and Indo Iranians lived together in ancient times.

    So far as Indian mythical river Sarasvati is concerned as described in Puranas and Mahabharata, its identification has of late zeroed on seasonal Ghaggar River, though the place of its coming down from the Shivalik range of mountains remains an issue of discussion and is yet to be finalized by the researchers.

    Whether these two identifications are right or wrong could be contested by the participants.

    Regards
    Tehran and Trivendrum are almost equidistant from Chandigarh. Vedic culture must have spread from N/W India in all directions. I am not at all surprised by the mention of Saraswati in Iranian literature. If Muslims of Bengal can include Arabic things in their literature, I suppose persians could have lso done the same about vedic things. There might have been Iranian scholars contributing to vedic writing the same way as Indian muslims contribute to islamic writings. In no way this disproves that NW India was the epicenter of vedic culture. Even today there are few places in Iran which sound Indian names. Most of the countries in Indian ocean region were influenced by Indian culture and this why the ocean got its name. Present day Afghanistan was part of Ashoka and Mughal empire and can not be considered outside South Asia. Many Indian kings like Lord Rama etc were "Chakrawarti" kings and their empire must have included areas upto Iran and far beyond. Mention of Kush can be found even in Egyptian literature. Spread of culture is something like a river which during peak flooding time can cover wast areas but again shrinks to its original place, except minor variations.
    There are many paths leading to God, politics is certainly not one of them...

  10. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to rkumar For This Useful Post:

    nrao (April 16th, 2013), puneetlakra (April 14th, 2013), rajpaldular (May 27th, 2013)

  11. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by rkumar View Post
    Tehran and Trivendrum are almost equidistant from Chandigarh. Vedic culture must have spread from N/W India in all directions. I am not at all surprised by the mention of Saraswati in Iranian literature. If Muslims of Bengal can include Arabic things in their literature, I suppose persians could have lso done the same about vedic things. There might have been Iranian scholars contributing to vedic writing the same way as Indian muslims contribute to islamic writings. In no way this disproves that NW India was the epicenter of vedic culture. Even today there are few places in Iran which sound Indian names. Most of the countries in Indian ocean region were influenced by Indian culture and this why the ocean got its name. Present day Afghanistan was part of Ashoka and Mughal empire and can not be considered outside South Asia. Many Indian kings like Lord Rama etc were "Chakrawarti" kings and their empire must have included areas upto Iran and far beyond. Mention of Kush can be found even in Egyptian literature. Spread of culture is something like a river which during peak flooding time can cover wast areas but again shrinks to its original place, except minor variations.
    Exactly this type of open minded objective research methodology, if accepted and applied by all could lead to solving so many riddles of the Pre-historic and Proto-historic times History of India.

    In fact, equating the present day boundaries of India as the frontiers of the Ancient India has caused many a distortions in Indian History which needs immediate attention of the participants. If we bother to recall the expansion and boundaries of the empires of Chandragupta Maurya and Kanishaka during the historic times, we can broaden our narrow vision to find out expansion of our earlier empires. This would definitely lead us to zero on the original abode of the Aryans of the yore, it is hoped.

    As rightly pointed out Ancient Aryans universe of activities encompassed in itself much more wider regions than imagined by the patriotic zealots, who narrow down their universe of activities to Indian Sapat-Sindu region only.
    History is best when created, better when re-constructed and worst when invented.

  12. The Following User Says Thank You to DrRajpalSingh For This Useful Post:

    rajpaldular (May 27th, 2013)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •