Indians; poor record keepers

[rkumar]

For quite sometime I have been wondering as to why we don't have reliable historic records ? We don't hae to go and look too far to understand this problem. Let us analyse our own habits of record keeping. Most of us belonging to my generation and before don't even know our correct date of birth as no one bothered to keep the record. People from my father's generation did not even know on which date they got married and when their parents died. Rarely we conserve the artifacts of our parents and grandparents. We have no respect for old buildings in villages and allow them decay. This much about our personal and local history.

Now let me tell you all about the level of common people about historical buildings. There is a village called "Banti Khera", about 7-10 km from Shamli. There is an old Mughal period tomb in the village. As a child I visited the village. Everybody in the village told me that the tomb was constructed in a singe night by "Ghosts". I too believed the story as a child.

We have total contempt for record keeping and this is why we face problems when it comes to knowing the right history. Moreover, there is a saying, " Beeti Tahi bisar de, aage ki sudh leie". This simply amounts to neglecting anything which has already happened.

RK^2

[sivach]

आप ने महत्वपूर्ण बात कही है मुझे इसके एक दो कारण नज़र आते सबसे पहला उस वक़्त ज्यादातर लोगो को पढ़ना और लिखना आता ही नहीं था तो रिकॉर्ड कैसे रखते और जिनको लिखना पढ़ना आता था उन्होंने अपनी महिमामंडन के चलते जानकारियाँ लिखित में रखी और मुहं जबानी ही समयानुसार बात कही और अपने ज्ञान को अगली पीढ़ी तक नहीं पहुँचाया|

[Arvindc]

Blame the pandits. They never let the education to be freely passed on to others.

[DrRajpalSingh]

We must remember that the oldest book in the world, the Rigveda, belongs to India.

[DrRajpalSingh]

The record of the concept of Dhamma as visualised by Emperor Asoka Maurya and his Edicts are second to none in the world.

[vicky84]

The record of the concept of Dhamma as visualised by Emperor Asoka Maurya and his Edicts are second to none in the world.

Good to know about this record keeping but today I think we are nowhere in record keeping as compared to developed countries. A quick look at the National Archives website(http://nationalarchives.nic.in/Default.aspx) tell us so. I just did some comparison between National Archives of Australia(http://www.naa.gov.au/) with National Archives of India. After comparison I will give ZERO to National Archives of India.

National Archives of India website is in so poor condition that even a naive web developer would not appreciate its home page. Here, I am just talking about look and feel of website. Looks like website development is done by someone who is learning to build web pages. In fact a learner would not leave so much junk(like &nbsp) on the page.

Now coming to point of functionality, again I would give a ZERO to National Archives of India because website is of no use. Search gives you zero results. No good functionality, almost negligible digitization of records, no features. I wonder if the phone numbers(Contact Us) mentioned on the website are correct. It's a dog's breakfast!!!!!!!!

Only solution to such problems is to change bureaucracy. Generalization in bureaucracy is killing us!!

[DrRajpalSingh]

Shri R.Kumar has rightly nailed the issue by starting the thread

to arouse the interest and concern of history lovers about the dire

need of available sources of information to be kept in good condition

in various archives, private and government both.

This is a gigantic project and needs immediate planning and proper execution

so that both literary and archaeological sources are not lost to posterity !!

[swaich]

We must remember that the oldest book in the world, the Rigveda, belongs to India.

I believe the OP is talking about 'written' records. Isnt the Rig Veda a collection of religious hymns/poems passed verbally from one generation to another? When were they actually written down? In the Gupta period?

[AnkurMalik]

I believe the OP is talking about 'written' records. Isnt the Rig Veda a collection of religious hymns/poems passed verbally from one generation to another? When were they actually written down? In the Gupta period?

my dear friend, one has to tell the story n then u write.

[urmiladuhan]

I believe the OP is talking about 'written' records. Isnt the Rig Veda a collection of religious hymns/poems passed verbally from one generation to another? When were they actually written down? In the Gupta period?

Yes. Written during Gupta period. Before that, the traditions were oral.

[DrRajpalSingh]

Yes. Written during Gupta period. Before that, the traditions were oral.

You mean to say that no written records of Vedic literature were available in India prior to commencement of the Gupta dynasty i.e. 320 AD.

Is it really so !

[nrao]

For quite sometime I have been wondering as to why we don't have reliable historic records ? We don't hae to go and look too far to understand this problem. Let us analyse our own habits of record keeping. Most of us belonging to my generation and before don't even know our correct date of birth as no one bothered to keep the record. People from my father's generation did not even know on which date they got married and when their parents died. Rarely we conserve the artifacts of our parents and grandparents. We have no respect for old buildings in villages and allow them decay. This much about our personal and local history.

Now let me tell you all about the level of common people about historical buildings. There is a village called "Banti Khera", about 7-10 km from Shamli. There is an old Mughal period tomb in the village. As a child I visited the village. Everybody in the village told me that the tomb was constructed in a singe night by "Ghosts". I too believed the story as a child.

We have total contempt for record keeping and this is why we face problems when it comes to knowing the right history. Moreover, there is a saying, " Beeti Tahi bisar de, aage ki sudh leie". This simply amounts to neglecting anything which has already happened.

RK^2

I just posted something on Jat history group and thought I would share. The context is that Ved, Puran, Mahabharat were created and written in 3rd - 5th century CE during Gupt kaal. But Indian history has a much better at recording and referencing these texts than we give them credit and all these examples record Ved, Puran and Mahabharat apart from numerous other fields of study:

Arthashastra (commonly accepted as dated about 2400 years before present)

अशा-०१.३.०१
साम.ऋग्.यजुर्.वेदास् त्रयस् त्रयी ॥
अशा-०१.३.०२
अथर्व.वेद.इतिहास.वेदौ च वेदाः ॥
अशा-०१.३.०३
शिक्षा कल्पो व्याकरणं निरुक्तं छन्दो.विचितिर् ज्योतिषम् इति च_अङ्गानि ॥

Chapter III
THE three Vedas, Sama, Rik and Yajus, constitute the triple Vedas. These together with Atharvaveda and the Itihasaveda are (known as) the Vedas.

Siksha (Phonetics), Kalpa (ceremonial injunctions), Vyakarana (grammar), Nirukta (glossarial explanation of obscure Vedic terms), Chandas (Prosody), and Astronomy form the Angas.


Griha Sutra (dated about 2500 years before present)
ADHYAYA III KANDIKA 4.

1. He satiates the deities: 'Pragapati, Brahman, the Vedas, the gods, the Rishis, all metres, the word
Om ...

2. 4. 'Sumantu, Gaimini, Vaisampayana, Paila, the Sutras, the Bhashyas, the Bharata, the Mahabharata, the teachers of law ...



Chandogya Upnishad (commonly accepted as dated to about 2800-2700 Before Present)

Fourth Khand
Om,’ superior to the three Vedas, the immortal refuge

1.Om! One should reverence the Udgītha as this syllable, for one sings the loud chant [beginning] with ‘Om.’

The further explanation thereof [is as follows].—

2. Verily, the gods, when they were afraid of death, took refuge in the threefold knowledge [i.e. the three Vedas]. They covered (acchādayan) themselves with meters. Because they covered themselves with these, therefore the meters are called chandas.

3. Death saw them there, in the Ṛic, in the Sāman, in the Yajus, just as one might see a fish in water. When they found this out, they arose out of the Ṛic, out of the Sāman, out of the Yajus, and took refuge in sound.

4. Verily, when one finishes an Ṛic, he sounds out ‘Om’; similarly a Sāman; similarly a Yajus. This sound is that syllable.1 It is immortal, fearless. By taking refuge in it the gods became immortal, fearless.

5. He who pronounces the syllable, knowing it thus, takes refuge in that syllable, in the immortal, fearless sound. Since the gods became immortal by taking refuge in it, therefore he becomes immortal.


Seventh Prapathak
First Khund

1. Om! ‘Teach me, Sir!’ — with these words Nārada came to Sanatkumāra.

To him he then said: ‘Come to me with what you know. Then I will tell you still further.’

2. Then he said to him: ‘Sir, I know the Rig-Veda, the Yajur-Veda, the Sāma-Veda, the Atharva-Veda as the fourth, Legend and Ancient Lore (itihāsa-purāṇa) as the fifth, the Veda of the Vedas [i.e. Grammar], Rites for the Manes, Mathematics, Augury (daiva), Chronology, Logic, Polity, the Science of the Gods (deva-vidyā), the Science of Sacred Knowledge (brahma-vidyā), Demonology (bhūta-vidyā), Military Science (kṣatra-vidyā), Astrology (nakṣatra-vidyā), the Science of Snake-charming, and the Fine Arts (sarpa-devajana-vidyā).
This, Sir, I know.

3. Such a one am I, Sir, knowing the sacred sayings (mantra-vid), but not knowing the Soul (Ātman). It has been heard by me from those who are like you, Sir, that he who knows the Soul (Ātman) crosses over sorrow. Such a sorrowing one am I, Sir. Do you, Sir, cause me, who am such a one, to cross over to the other side of sorrow.’

To him he then said: ‘Verily, whatever you have here learned, verily, that is mere name (nāman).

4. Verily, a Name are the Rig-Veda, the Yajur-Veda, the Sāma-Veda, the Atharva-Veda as the fourth, Legend and Ancient Lore (itihāsa-purāṇa) as the fifth, the Veda of the Vedas [i.e. Grammar], Rites for the Manes, Mathematics, Augury (daiva), Chronology, Logic, Polity, the Science of the Gods (deva-vidyā), the Science of Sacred Knowledge (brahma-vidyā), Demonology (bhūta-vidyā), Military Science (kṣatra-vidyā), Astrology (nakṣatra-vidyā), the Science of Snake-charming, and the Fine Arts (sarpa-devajana-vidyā). This is mere Name. Reverence Name.


Apart from above, I thought this was interesting as well from Arthashastra where students are advised to study lipi:

अशा-०१.५.०७
वृत्त.चौल.कर्मा लिपिं संख्यानं च_उपयुञ्जीत ॥
Having undergone the ceremony of tonsure, the student shall learn the alphabet (lipi) and arithmetic.

[nrao]

Just a clarification, the word Itihas as used in ancient texts is used for Ramayan and Mahabharat.

I just posted something on Jat history group and thought I would share. The context is that Ved, Puran, Mahabharat were created and written in 3rd - 5th century CE during Gupt kaal. But Indian history has a much better at recording and referencing these texts than we give them credit and all these examples record Ved, Puran and Mahabharat apart from numerous other fields of study:

Arthashastra (commonly accepted as dated about 2400 years before present)

अशा-०१.३.०१
साम.ऋग्.यजुर्.वेदास् त्रयस् त्रयी ॥
अशा-०१.३.०२
अथर्व.वेद.इतिहास.वेदौ च वेदाः ॥
अशा-०१.३.०३
शिक्षा कल्पो व्याकरणं निरुक्तं छन्दो.विचितिर् ज्योतिषम् इति च_अङ्गानि ॥

Chapter III
THE three Vedas, Sama, Rik and Yajus, constitute the triple Vedas. These together with Atharvaveda and the Itihasaveda are (known as) the Vedas.

Siksha (Phonetics), Kalpa (ceremonial injunctions), Vyakarana (grammar), Nirukta (glossarial explanation of obscure Vedic terms), Chandas (Prosody), and Astronomy form the Angas.


Griha Sutra (dated about 2500 years before present)
ADHYAYA III KANDIKA 4.

1. He satiates the deities: 'Pragapati, Brahman, the Vedas, the gods, the Rishis, all metres, the word
Om ...

2. 4. 'Sumantu, Gaimini, Vaisampayana, Paila, the Sutras, the Bhashyas, the Bharata, the Mahabharata, the teachers of law ...



Chandogya Upnishad (commonly accepted as dated to about 2800-2700 Before Present)

Fourth Khand
Om,’ superior to the three Vedas, the immortal refuge

1.Om! One should reverence the Udgītha as this syllable, for one sings the loud chant [beginning] with ‘Om.’

The further explanation thereof [is as follows].—

2. Verily, the gods, when they were afraid of death, took refuge in the threefold knowledge [i.e. the three Vedas]. They covered (acchādayan) themselves with meters. Because they covered themselves with these, therefore the meters are called chandas.

3. Death saw them there, in the Ṛic, in the Sāman, in the Yajus, just as one might see a fish in water. When they found this out, they arose out of the Ṛic, out of the Sāman, out of the Yajus, and took refuge in sound.

4. Verily, when one finishes an Ṛic, he sounds out ‘Om’; similarly a Sāman; similarly a Yajus. This sound is that syllable.1 It is immortal, fearless. By taking refuge in it the gods became immortal, fearless.

5. He who pronounces the syllable, knowing it thus, takes refuge in that syllable, in the immortal, fearless sound. Since the gods became immortal by taking refuge in it, therefore he becomes immortal.


Seventh Prapathak
First Khund

1. Om! ‘Teach me, Sir!’ — with these words Nārada came to Sanatkumāra.

To him he then said: ‘Come to me with what you know. Then I will tell you still further.’

2. Then he said to him: ‘Sir, I know the Rig-Veda, the Yajur-Veda, the Sāma-Veda, the Atharva-Veda as the fourth, Legend and Ancient Lore (itihāsa-purāṇa) as the fifth, the Veda of the Vedas [i.e. Grammar], Rites for the Manes, Mathematics, Augury (daiva), Chronology, Logic, Polity, the Science of the Gods (deva-vidyā), the Science of Sacred Knowledge (brahma-vidyā), Demonology (bhūta-vidyā), Military Science (kṣatra-vidyā), Astrology (nakṣatra-vidyā), the Science of Snake-charming, and the Fine Arts (sarpa-devajana-vidyā).
This, Sir, I know.

3. Such a one am I, Sir, knowing the sacred sayings (mantra-vid), but not knowing the Soul (Ātman). It has been heard by me from those who are like you, Sir, that he who knows the Soul (Ātman) crosses over sorrow. Such a sorrowing one am I, Sir. Do you, Sir, cause me, who am such a one, to cross over to the other side of sorrow.’

To him he then said: ‘Verily, whatever you have here learned, verily, that is mere name (nāman).

4. Verily, a Name are the Rig-Veda, the Yajur-Veda, the Sāma-Veda, the Atharva-Veda as the fourth, Legend and Ancient Lore (itihāsa-purāṇa) as the fifth, the Veda of the Vedas [i.e. Grammar], Rites for the Manes, Mathematics, Augury (daiva), Chronology, Logic, Polity, the Science of the Gods (deva-vidyā), the Science of Sacred Knowledge (brahma-vidyā), Demonology (bhūta-vidyā), Military Science (kṣatra-vidyā), Astrology (nakṣatra-vidyā), the Science of Snake-charming, and the Fine Arts (sarpa-devajana-vidyā). This is mere Name. Reverence Name.


Apart from above, I thought this was interesting as well from Arthashastra where students are advised to study lipi:

अशा-०१.५.०७
वृत्त.चौल.कर्मा लिपिं संख्यानं च_उपयुञ्जीत ॥
Having undergone the ceremony of tonsure, the student shall learn the alphabet (lipi) and arithmetic.

[DrRajpalSingh]

Just a clarification, the word Itihas as used in ancient texts is used for Ramayan and Mahabharat.

Kindly share the base/source of this definition of the ancient Itihas please.

[nrao]

I just posted something on Jat history group and thought I would share. The context is that Ved, Puran, Mahabharat were created and written in 3rd - 5th century CE during Gupt kaal. But Indian history has a much better at recording and referencing these texts than we give them credit and all these examples record Ved, Puran and Mahabharat apart from numerous other fields of study:

Arthashastra (commonly accepted as dated about 2400 years before present)

अशा-०१.३.०१
साम.ऋग्.यजुर्.वेदास् त्रयस् त्रयी ॥
अशा-०१.३.०२
अथर्व.वेद.इतिहास.वेदौ च वेदाः ॥
अशा-०१.३.०३
शिक्षा कल्पो व्याकरणं निरुक्तं छन्दो.विचितिर् ज्योतिषम् इति च_अङ्गानि ॥

Chapter III
THE three Vedas, Sama, Rik and Yajus, constitute the triple Vedas. These together with Atharvaveda and the Itihasaveda are (known as) the Vedas.

Siksha (Phonetics), Kalpa (ceremonial injunctions), Vyakarana (grammar), Nirukta (glossarial explanation of obscure Vedic terms), Chandas (Prosody), and Astronomy form the Angas.


Griha Sutra (dated about 2500 years before present)
ADHYAYA III KANDIKA 4.

1. He satiates the deities: 'Pragapati, Brahman, the Vedas, the gods, the Rishis, all metres, the word
Om ...

2. 4. 'Sumantu, Gaimini, Vaisampayana, Paila, the Sutras, the Bhashyas, the Bharata, the Mahabharata, the teachers of law ...



Chandogya Upnishad (commonly accepted as dated to about 2800-2700 Before Present)

Fourth Khand
Om,’ superior to the three Vedas, the immortal refuge

1.Om! One should reverence the Udgītha as this syllable, for one sings the loud chant [beginning] with ‘Om.’

The further explanation thereof [is as follows].—

2. Verily, the gods, when they were afraid of death, took refuge in the threefold knowledge [i.e. the three Vedas]. They covered (acchādayan) themselves with meters. Because they covered themselves with these, therefore the meters are called chandas.

3. Death saw them there, in the Ṛic, in the Sāman, in the Yajus, just as one might see a fish in water. When they found this out, they arose out of the Ṛic, out of the Sāman, out of the Yajus, and took refuge in sound.

4. Verily, when one finishes an Ṛic, he sounds out ‘Om’; similarly a Sāman; similarly a Yajus. This sound is that syllable.1 It is immortal, fearless. By taking refuge in it the gods became immortal, fearless.

5. He who pronounces the syllable, knowing it thus, takes refuge in that syllable, in the immortal, fearless sound. Since the gods became immortal by taking refuge in it, therefore he becomes immortal.


Seventh Prapathak
First Khund

1. Om! ‘Teach me, Sir!’ — with these words Nārada came to Sanatkumāra.

To him he then said: ‘Come to me with what you know. Then I will tell you still further.’

2. Then he said to him: ‘Sir, I know the Rig-Veda, the Yajur-Veda, the Sāma-Veda, the Atharva-Veda as the fourth, Legend and Ancient Lore (itihāsa-purāṇa) as the fifth, the Veda of the Vedas [i.e. Grammar], Rites for the Manes, Mathematics, Augury (daiva), Chronology, Logic, Polity, the Science of the Gods (deva-vidyā), the Science of Sacred Knowledge (brahma-vidyā), Demonology (bhūta-vidyā), Military Science (kṣatra-vidyā), Astrology (nakṣatra-vidyā), the Science of Snake-charming, and the Fine Arts (sarpa-devajana-vidyā).
This, Sir, I know.

3. Such a one am I, Sir, knowing the sacred sayings (mantra-vid), but not knowing the Soul (Ātman). It has been heard by me from those who are like you, Sir, that he who knows the Soul (Ātman) crosses over sorrow. Such a sorrowing one am I, Sir. Do you, Sir, cause me, who am such a one, to cross over to the other side of sorrow.’

To him he then said: ‘Verily, whatever you have here learned, verily, that is mere name (nāman).

4. Verily, a Name are the Rig-Veda, the Yajur-Veda, the Sāma-Veda, the Atharva-Veda as the fourth, Legend and Ancient Lore (itihāsa-purāṇa) as the fifth, the Veda of the Vedas [i.e. Grammar], Rites for the Manes, Mathematics, Augury (daiva), Chronology, Logic, Polity, the Science of the Gods (deva-vidyā), the Science of Sacred Knowledge (brahma-vidyā), Demonology (bhūta-vidyā), Military Science (kṣatra-vidyā), Astrology (nakṣatra-vidyā), the Science of Snake-charming, and the Fine Arts (sarpa-devajana-vidyā). This is mere Name. Reverence Name.


Apart from above, I thought this was interesting as well from Arthashastra where students are advised to study lipi:

अशा-०१.५.०७
वृत्त.चौल.कर्मा लिपिं संख्यानं च_उपयुञ्जीत ॥
Having undergone the ceremony of tonsure, the student shall learn the alphabet (lipi) and arithmetic.

Kindly share the base/source of this definition of the ancient Itihas please.

MBh: 18.5.31 -
पुण्यॊ ऽयम इतिहासाख्यः पवित्रं चेदम उत्तमम
कृष्णेन मुनिना विप्र नियतं सत्यवादिना

Called a history, it is sacred, sanctifying and excellent. It has been composed by the ascetic Krishna, O Brahmana, of truthful speech.

18.5.42-43 -

42 - नारदॊ ऽशरावयद देवान असितॊ देवलः पितॄन
रक्षॊयक्षाञ शुकॊ मर्त्यान वैशम्पायन एव तु
43 - इतिहासम इमं पुण्यं महार्थं वेद संमितम
शरावयेद यस तु वर्णांस तरीन कृत्वा बराह्मणम अग्रतः

Narada recited the Mahabharata to the gods; Asita-Devala to the Pitris; Suka to the Rakshasas and the Yakshas; and Vaishampayana to human beings. This history is sacred, and of high import, and regarded as equal to the Vedas. That man, O Saunaka, who hears this history, placing a Brahmana before him, acquires both fame and the fruition of all his wishes.

[DrRajpalSingh]

MBh: 18.5.31 -
पुण्यॊ ऽयम इतिहासाख्यः पवित्रं चेदम उत्तमम
कृष्णेन मुनिना विप्र नियतं सत्यवादिना

Called a history, it is sacred, sanctifying and excellent. It has been composed by the ascetic Krishna, O Brahmana, of truthful speech.

18.5.42-43 -

42 - नारदॊ ऽशरावयद देवान असितॊ देवलः पितॄन
रक्षॊयक्षाञ शुकॊ मर्त्यान वैशम्पायन एव तु
43 - इतिहासम इमं पुण्यं महार्थं वेद संमितम
शरावयेद यस तु वर्णांस तरीन कृत्वा बराह्मणम अग्रतः

Narada recited the Mahabharata to the gods; Asita-Devala to the Pitris; Suka to the Rakshasas and the Yakshas; and Vaishampayana to human beings. This history is sacred, and of high import, and regarded as equal to the Vedas. That man, O Saunaka, who hears this history, placing a Brahmana before him, acquires both fame and the fruition of all his wishes.

The sacredness and importance of History equal to Vedas is alright; but it is to be noted that

original epic Jaya known as Mahabharata was composed by Maharishi Vyas Vaishampayana as contemporary history immediately after the Bharata battle and was not "composed by the ascetic Krishna."

The references quoted here seem to be interpolation to the original epic by latter authors/editors of the Epic to impose Brahmanic supremacy on the knowledge as they prescribed pre condition before the listener of Mahabharata/Itihas of ''placing a Brahmana before him'' to ''acquire both fame and the fruition of all his wishes''.

This twisting of facts and monopoly of knowledge in the hands of a few by vested interests led to more disastrous impact on Indian society than the Bharata battle itself !!!

[sanjeev1984]

Lakin Sir....
Birth and shadi ke records "bhaath" rukhte the, aaj bhi rukhte hain... or aa kar humare poorvajo ke naam bhi batate hain gaane gaa kar... or marne ke records gangaji par "pande" rukhte hain...

maine bhaath or pando se data le kar apna family tree bhi banaya hai... mugjhe bahot peedhi piche tak ka data mila hai unse...

For quite sometime I have been wondering as to why we don't have reliable historic records ? We don't hae to go and look too far to understand this problem. Let us analyse our own habits of record keeping. Most of us belonging to my generation and before don't even know our correct date of birth as no one bothered to keep the record. People from my father's generation did not even know on which date they got married and when their parents died. Rarely we conserve the artifacts of our parents and grandparents. We have no respect for old buildings in villages and allow them decay. This much about our personal and local history.

Now let me tell you all about the level of common people about historical buildings. There is a village called "Banti Khera", about 7-10 km from Shamli. There is an old Mughal period tomb in the village. As a child I visited the village. Everybody in the village told me that the tomb was constructed in a singe night by "Ghosts". I too believed the story as a child.

We have total contempt for record keeping and this is why we face problems when it comes to knowing the right history. Moreover, there is a saying, " Beeti Tahi bisar de, aage ki sudh leie". This simply amounts to neglecting anything which has already happened.

RK^2

[urmiladuhan]

Record keeping requires writing items which are perishable or else have an age. Palm leaf documents have survived almost 1000 years and some of them can be seen in museums of Orissa etc. Cloth again has limited shelf life unless specific precautions are taken such as keeping away from dust and humidity. The climate of India being tropical, allows for quick disintegration of organic matter. Caves in Tibet region (Buddhist caves) has preserved some of the finest written documents and cloth work dating near mauryan times because of cool and dry weather conditions.

For quite sometime I have been wondering as to why we don't have reliable historic records ? We don't hae to go and look too far to understand this problem. Let us analyse our own habits of record keeping. Most of us belonging to my generation and before don't even know our correct date of birth as no one bothered to keep the record. People from my father's generation did not even know on which date they got married and when their parents died. Rarely we conserve the artifacts of our parents and grandparents. We have no respect for old buildings in villages and allow them decay. This much about our personal and local history.

Now let me tell you all about the level of common people about historical buildings. There is a village called "Banti Khera", about 7-10 km from Shamli. There is an old Mughal period tomb in the village. As a child I visited the village. Everybody in the village told me that the tomb was constructed in a singe night by "Ghosts". I too believed the story as a child.

We have total contempt for record keeping and this is why we face problems when it comes to knowing the right history. Moreover, there is a saying, " Beeti Tahi bisar de, aage ki sudh leie". This simply amounts to neglecting anything which has already happened.

RK^2