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Thread: The British Imperialism in India: A Boon or Curse

  1. #1

    The British Imperialism in India: A Boon or Curse

    Friends,

    Some people believe it to be a boon whereas others believe it to be bane. So There is no unanimity on the role of the Imperialist occupation of India by the British which started with the battle of Plassey fought in 1757 AD and lasted in 1947 AD. The candid views/opinions of the participants on this contentious issue are invited.

    Thanks.
    History is best when created, better when re-constructed and worst when invented.

  2. #2
    To start with we can take the post no 28 given below from the thread on Jat history :Thread: Victoria Cross Winner - Company Havildar-Major Chheluram

    For the convenience of the readers the same is reproduced below :

    Quote Originally Posted by maddhan1979 View Post
    Dear Dr, Rajpal, we can take out "Bal ki Khal" but the fact remains that we are talking in "English", the clothes that u are wearing were designed in west, then why be hypocritical. We can read as many writers as we can but we have to acknowledge good and bad facts that happened due to the presence of people coming to Bharat.
    Bharat has seen such a big inflow of cultures and civilizations that we can not rule anyone out. Was the muslim rule any better then rule by Britishers? Was the rule by small kings in ancient India any better then rule by Britishers? Was the rule by hindu religious identities any better then rule by Britishers?

    So, if we look history in wider perspective, i think coming of British was not that bad as shown by blinded nationalistic identities?

    The basic question we have to answer at this level is:
    Have we ever given value to human life?
    I think not? As soon as Britishers left, people again started fighting in the name of religion and Bharat was divided in the name of religion and other identities.
    From Kashmir to Afghanistan to Pakistan and north west of India we come from the same tribes yet we in the worst position in terms of peace in the region, we might follow different religions but we write the same family names and we share same common tribal blood that has been passed on by our ancestors, yet we are still fighting. In this region religion still plays a major role in governing peoples lives and these people are driven by blind faith in the name of religion.
    What is '' blinded nationalistic identities?'' new phrase beyond comprehension.

    Moreover, the sweeping comments regarding the goodness of the British Imperialism do not present true nature of the colonial regime.
    History is best when created, better when re-constructed and worst when invented.

  3. #3
    These "some people" are those who are the products of convent schools where education is rendered on the pattern set by Lord Macaulay whose sole aim was to destroy our history, culture, languages, and religion, which is necessary to keep a nation slave forever. Only negative aspects of our history are taught in today's school textbooks. Not only in India, colonial empire has done havoc in other places also - African countries, Latin America, and many Asian nations. Everywhere, the local masses revolted and finally the colonial powers had to leave, except where the local population was wiped out through bullets (such as Australia, New Zealand etc.).

    It is a wrong notion that modern scientific advancement in our country has been possible because of foreign rule or the English language. The economic impact of foreign rule has been phenomenal because much of our wealth was looted. During Moghul period, until Aurangzeb's rule, India's share in world trade was more than 17%. At the time of Independence, it shrank to just 2%.
    तमसो मा ज्योतिर्गमय

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  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by dndeswal View Post
    These "some people" are those who are the products of convent schools where education is rendered on the pattern set by Lord Macaulay whose sole aim was to destroy our history, culture, languages, and religion, which is necessary to keep a nation slave forever. Only negative aspects of our history are taught in today's school textbooks. Not only in India, colonial empire has done havoc in other places also - African countries, Latin America, and many Asian nations. Everywhere, the local masses revolted and finally the colonial powers had to leave, except where the local population was wiped out through bullets (such as Australia, New Zealand etc.).

    It is a wrong notion that modern scientific advancement in our country has been possible because of foreign rule or the English language. The economic impact of foreign rule has been phenomenal because much of our wealth was looted. During Moghul period, until Aurangzeb's rule, India's share in world trade was more than 17%. At the time of Independence, it shrank to just 2%.


    Do u think, India is a free country? Can u tell me where did India get its rules and regulations? We still have rules and regulations which were made during ancient times. Today also India is ruled by politicians all of whom have some sort of criminal record.
    The entire nation is running on:
    1: Local development due to foreign investment. (Making housing projects, making special economic zones, etc.), this foreign investment is due to cheap human labour.
    2: Rising middle class and movement of people across India although the middle class is the most exploited class of the Indian society. Their working conditions are not good, they do not have public facilities (Public facilities are pathetic and poorest, pollution, crime, jammed roads, etc form the part of their daily life.)

    Local population in any place throughout the world were always fighting the oppressors in one form or other, whether they were local rulers or outside rulers.

    As per the trade during Mughals. Ancient trade in north west of India was carried through routes like Silk Route, sea and other mountain passes in the Himalayas, which during the mughal rule and before them were controlled by muslim rulers and at that point of time in history the fight was about religion, as Islam started spreading around 8th century AD.
    Last edited by maddhan1979; July 24th, 2013 at 07:05 PM.

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by maddhan1979 View Post
    Do u think, India is a free country? Can u tell me where did India get its rules and regulations? We still have rules and regulations which were made during ancient times. Today also India is ruled by politicians all of whom have some sort of criminal record.
    The entire nation is running on:
    1: Local development due to foreign investment. (Making housing projects, making special economic zones, etc.), this foreign investment is due to cheap human labour.
    2: Rising middle class and movement of people across India although the middle class is the most exploited class of the Indian society. Their working conditions are not good, they do not have public facilities (Public facilities are pathetic and poorest, pollution, crime, jammed roads, etc form the part of their daily life.)

    Local population in any place throughout the world were always fighting the oppressors in one form of the other, whether they were local rulers or outside rulers.

    As per the trade during Mughals. Ancient trade in north west of India was carried through routes like Silk Route, sea and other mountain passes in the Himalayas, which during the mughal rule and before them were controlled by muslim rulers and at that point of time in history the fight was about religion, as Islam started spreading around 8th century AD.

    In ancient times, culture, religion, etc formed the links for trade in today´s context education, technology, logical reasoning, dialog will form the base for present and future trade.

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by maddhan1979 View Post
    In ancient times, culture, religion, etc formed the links for trade in today´s context education, technology, logical reasoning, dialog will form the base for present and future trade.
    Do u think India is not a slave nation? In the name of nation and religion people living in the north west of India have been getting killed for ages. Even today the scenario is the same.
    I can give u a simple example of slave mentality, India is second largest interms of population and Indians love cricket, for more then a decade a single player was the focus of the entire game: " Sachin Tendulkar". If he played good then Indian team will win, otherwise the team will loose the game. Entire media was applauding him. The cricket team is not made of one player and there are millions of cricket playing people in India, are there no better players then Tendulkar? There must have been hundreds of players better then him but the main point is "Idol Worship" has closed the minds of people and made them into real life zombies, where they could not look beyond one "Idol" and the entire nation becomes slave to such a mindset. We can see the same trend in politics, Why does everyone every time look at Nehru Gandhi family for leadership, if they have to lead the nation, they have to come out themself. This thing is happening in every phase of life in Indian mentality.

    This mindset is leading to waste of present day youth and blocking their path of innovation and progress. If the change has to come, it has to come at every level of society and through every individual.
    This mind set is one of the reasons we lack in innovation based research and technologies because we are still mental slaves to motion less, speech less Idols.
    Last edited by maddhan1979; July 24th, 2013 at 07:06 PM.

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  9. #7
    INDIA IS A FREE COUNTRY and SO YOU ARE !
    History is best when created, better when re-constructed and worst when invented.

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  11. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by DrRajpalSingh View Post
    Friends,

    Some people believe it to be a boon whereas others believe it to be bane. So There is no unanimity on the role of the Imperialist occupation of India by the British which started with the battle of Plassey fought in 1757 AD and lasted in 1947 AD. The candid views/opinions of the participants on this contentious issue are invited.
    Thanks.
    Rajpal ji, I didn't read the Chheluram thread but since you are asking for opinions, here is mine. I think India would have been better off if the Britishers ruled for another couple of decades. I am sure they would have done better job than our present day politicians.

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  13. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by maddhan1979 View Post
    I can give u a simple example of slave mentality, India is second largest interms of population and Indians love cricket, for more then a decade a single player was the focus of the entire game: " Sachin Tendulkar". If he played good then Indian team will will otherwise the team will loose the game. Entire media was applauding him. The cricket team is not made of one player and there are millions of cricket playing people in India, are there no better players then Tendulkar? There must have been hundreds of players better then him but the main point is "Idol Worship" has closed the minds of people and made them into real life zombies, where they could not look beyond one "Idol" and the entire nation becomes slave to such a mindset. We can see the same trend in politics,
    I can only laugh at this analogy. This guy gets equal respect when travelling overseas and I have personally seen the whole stadium standing on their feet when he came into bat. It is his humbleness, down-to-earth attitude and diligence which have earned him so many followers not some 'idol-worship' theory.

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  15. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by DrRajpalSingh View Post
    INDIA IS A FREE COUNTRY and SO YOU ARE !

    U r an educated person Dr. Rajpal, please read again, what i have written, in this thread.

    Yes, we all are free and for generations, we have been free and we have been sacrificing our own brothers, sisters, families for generations in the name of this freedom.

    Do u not know, how in past many Jat clans had to kill their own girl child as soon as she was born because these people were warriors and they had to go and fight the invading armies and they did not know any thing about tomorrow. As often in ancient Bharat these men were massacred as they were fighting in the name of religion and were fighting in small groups. All that was left of these people were their families in form of women, girls, kids and old people.
    What happened to these left over families was again a very good thing as they were often taken as slaves to be sold off or exploited by the people who never went to fight.

    Who would kill their own child? Could u not image the situation that our ancestors went through? Just in the name of some religion that spread "blood" all across the place. Same people same tribes same family names killing each other in the name of different religions?

    I hope this memory makes u happy and say aloud " WE R FREE".
    Last edited by maddhan1979; July 24th, 2013 at 08:42 AM.

  16. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by maddhan1979 View Post
    U r an educated person Dr. Rajpal, please read again, what i have written, in this thread.

    Yes, we all are free and for generations, we have been free and we have been sacrificing our own brothers, sisters, families for generations in the name of this freedom.

    Do u not know, how in past many Jat clans had to kill their own girl child as soon as she was born because these people were warriors and they had to go and fight the invading armies and they did not know any thing about tomorrow. As often in ancient Bharat these men were massacred as they were fighting in the name of religion and were fighting in small groups. All that was left of these people were their families in form of women, girls, kids and old people.
    What happened to these left over families was again a very good thing as they were often taken as slaves to be sold off or exploited by the people who never went to fight.

    Who would kill their own child? Could u not image the situation that out ancestors went through? Just in the name of some religion that spread "blood" all across the place. Same people same tribes same family names killing each other in the name of different religions?

    I hope this memory makes u happy and say aloud " WE R FREE".

    The more worst case was that of "Sati" tradition that happened in Rajasthan and other north western areas of the country.

  17. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by maddhan1979 View Post
    U r an educated person Dr. Rajpal, please read again, what i have written, in this thread.

    Yes, we all are free and for generations, we have been free and we have been sacrificing our own brothers, sisters, families for generations in the name of this freedom.

    Do u not know, how in past many Jat clans had to kill their own girl child as soon as she was born because these people were warriors and they had to go and fight the invading armies and they did not know any thing about tomorrow. As often in ancient Bharat these men were massacred as they were fighting in the name of religion and were fighting in small groups. All that was left of these people were their families in form of women, girls, kids and old people.
    What happened to these left over families was again a very good thing as they were often taken as slaves to be sold off or exploited by the people who never went to fight.

    Who would kill their own child? Could u not image the situation that our ancestors went through? Just in the name of some religion that spread "blood" all across the place. Same people same tribes same family names killing each other in the name of different religions?

    I hope this memory makes u happy and say aloud " WE R FREE".
    Friend,

    This section pertains to history section not general discussion, therefore, kindly contribute your views on specific issues in concrete manner not in the manner of sweeping statements.

    If you could, kindly try to follow the theme specified in the title of the thread please.

    Thanks
    History is best when created, better when re-constructed and worst when invented.

  18. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by maddhan1979 View Post
    The more worst case was that of "Sati" tradition that happened in Rajasthan and other north western areas of the country.
    What it had to do with the British imperialism......... !!!!!
    History is best when created, better when re-constructed and worst when invented.

  19. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by VPannu View Post
    I can only laugh at this analogy. This guy gets equal respect when travelling overseas and I have personally seen the whole stadium standing on their feet when he came into bat. It is his humbleness, down-to-earth attitude and diligence which have earned him so many followers not some 'idol-worship' theory.
    Good, at least u had a laugh. I wish u best of luck for future laughs, keeps a person healthy.
    Last edited by maddhan1979; July 24th, 2013 at 07:15 PM.

  20. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by maddhan1979 View Post
    Good, at least u had a laugh. I wish u best of luck for future laughs, keeps a person healthy.
    maddhan1979,

    Sachin is the only sports person in India, after Lt. Dhyanchand, who has given his entire life to a sport and survived with dignity. You may call me a cricket fan, but as a sports person, he has done more than any other sports person (except Dhyanchand) in this country and won laurels for the country. Being humble, others can only think of emulating him. Rest, everyone has their own opinion.
    A350Xwb - Shaping Efficiency!

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  22. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by VPannu View Post
    Rajpal ji, I didn't read the Chheluram thread but since you are asking for opinions, here is mine. I think India would have been better off if the Britishers ruled for another couple of decades. I am sure they would have done better job than our present day politicians.
    Friend,

    I beg to differ with you and submit my views on your stipulation as under for your kind perusal please:

    In historical studies, comparisons are made among only contemporaries. Hence, the comparison between the freedom fighters and the founding fathers of the Indian nation in early years of freedom and the leaders of over six decades later does not sound valid. Moreover, we must remember the wealth drain theory adopted by the British in India treating it as a colony. Had they stayed for more time they would have made India poorer with each passing day.

    Moreover, we have to keep in mind why did the british free India. In fact their policy of 'divide and rule' had pushed the country in a state of anarchy and chaos and even the ever loyal Indian Navy and Air Force showed signs of patriotism. They had no means to bring more military recruited from Britain and Europe because of their weak financial position after the World War II. The INA trials in the Red Fort further spoiled the position of the imperialists and a wave of anger among all sections of the society swept against them.

    In other words, if we take an objective view of the conditions in 1947 when riot flames were engulfing the country, bureaucracy and military stood divided on religious lines and lawlessness caused by varying declarations made by the British regarding two nation theory, the position granted to the 600 odd native states either join India or Pakistan or to remain free from both of them, etc are some of the features that plunged the country in the state of anarchy. These factors in addition to some others led the British to their idea to leave India safe and sound at the earliest possible. That is what caused them preponement of the earlier declared date of granting freedom from June 1948 to 15th August 1947. So they left immediately.

    All these facts do not seem to indicate that had British stayed here for some more decades, they could have done better than our leaders did accomplish to make the truncated India a great country even in a very short span of time after the attainment of freedom. Their achievements during first two three years are indeed second to none.

    Moreover, there is no place for 'ifs' and 'buts' in history because whatever happened in the past is history and the British were made to go compelled by the circumstances beyond their control.

    That is all !!

    Thanks.
    Last edited by DrRajpalSingh; July 25th, 2013 at 07:50 PM.
    History is best when created, better when re-constructed and worst when invented.

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  24. #17
    The British imperialists had indirectly helped in rise of Indian awakening or renaissance as the exploitation and wealth drain led the English knowing Indians to lead the social and cultural emancipation movements which ultimately merged with Freedom movement in the long run.

    The means of transport and communication like development of railways and roads, the coming of press and news papers, telegraphs, introduction of English as medium of education etc. indirectly helped growth of nationalism among the Indian people.

    These and many other measures introduced by the British to strengthen their Indian Empire, by default came handy to Indian patriots to beat their expoliters with their own stick.

    Thanks
    History is best when created, better when re-constructed and worst when invented.

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  26. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by maddhan1979 View Post
    U r an educated person Dr. Rajpal, please read again, what i have written, in this thread.

    Yes, we all are free and for generations, we have been free and we have been sacrificing our own brothers, sisters, families for generations in the name of this freedom.

    Do u not know, how in past many Jat clans had to kill their own girl child as soon as she was born because these people were warriors and they had to go and fight the invading armies and they did not know any thing about tomorrow. As often in ancient Bharat these men were massacred as they were fighting in the name of religion and were fighting in small groups. All that was left of these people were their families in form of women, girls, kids and old people.
    What happened to these left over families was again a very good thing as they were often taken as slaves to be sold off or exploited by the people who never went to fight.

    Who would kill their own child? Could u not image the situation that our ancestors went through? Just in the name of some religion that spread "blood" all across the place. Same people same tribes same family names killing each other in the name of different religions?

    I hope this memory makes u happy and say aloud " WE R FREE".
    Selectively killing GIRL child (and not baby boy)! Does it not indicate a cultural phenomenon? In my opinion, no amount of argument can absolve people of killing children, irrespective of their sex.
    Last edited by urmiladuhan; November 8th, 2013 at 10:09 PM.
    Attention seekers and attention getters are two different class of people.

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  28. #19
    Before answering the merits of British Raj, one should ask what all options we Indians had at the time? Were we better off with Mughals and small kings ruling us? What all did we achieve during Mughal rule ? When Europe was busy making new scientific discoveries every week, Mughals were busy constructing Mahals and Forts. Fact of the matter is that our society was decaying internally for quite some time. Our rulers had no idea what all was happening in rest of the world and how that was going to affect us. India hardly had a navy. We hardly made modern weapons to fight the invaders. Foreign rule was bound to happen. Thank God British ruled India and not Spanish or Portuguese or Dutch. WE may have lost something, but we gained a lot. WE rediscovered India and we are still a majority Hindu nation. Compare us with other countries in the region who were not ruled by outsiders. We are a way better than most of them. Inspite of all invasions and foreign rules, our culture is still very distinctively Indian. We might be wearing pants and shirts, but we have not given up Dhoti, kurta and sarees. We could have been better, however, we are not that bad either.

    RK^2
    There are many paths leading to God, politics is certainly not one of them...

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  30. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by urmiladuhan View Post
    Selectively killing GIRL child (and not baby boy)! Does it not indicate a cultural phenomenon? In my opinion, no amount of argument can absolve people of killing children, irrespective of their sex.
    The main points that i wanted to state were :

    1. How people of common origins were killing each other in name of religion.
    2. The kind of bad effects these events had on their life.

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