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Thread: पृथ्वी पर केवल हिन्दू थे !!!!!!

  1. #61
    If some members feel Hinduism has all the ills, why don't they just give it up?

    If Hinduism is a STILL a religion by of and for Brahmins, why do they fill Hindu as their religion in the various forms they fill? Why do they hold Hindu rituals from the beginning till the end? If Brahmins are clever, God has endowed enough wisdom/brains to the Jats. If you feel you have not been given your rightful place/due, make/claim it by your deeds/actions. Nobody stops you from doing so. Jats are not quitters. If the other communities have made their own space, nothing can stop Jats from doing so, PROVIDED WE COME OUT OF THAT MINDSET THAT THINGS WILL BE SERVED TO US ON A PLATTER BECAUSE WE ARE CHAUDHARIES - we will have to work towards it.

    To all those who say that Jats irrespective of religion are one. Though the talk of Jats of all religions as one sounds music to our ears, my question/s to you is - would you marry your sister/daughter to a Muslim Jat? Would a Muslim Jat marry his sister/daughter to a Hindu Jat? Would a Muslim Jat foresake Allah and fight for a Jat against a fellow Muslim? NO!!!!! Let's start living in the real world.
    Last edited by AbhikRana; March 15th, 2014 at 07:23 PM.

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  3. #62
    Some Congress supporters feign to be pundits/wizards as far as their knowledge of RSS is concerned.

    The one regular term used is Kacchadhari. How many innocent people have been killed by the Kacchadharis????

    Now look at the Salwarwalas. These salwarwalas have committed terror acts all across the world. But the Congressis would still prefer to target the nationalist Kacchadharis whose only aim is to see a strong and united India and Hindu faith, though not at the cost of other communities.

    Whereas at the cost of other communities, Congress is supporting the Salwarwalas and wants to turn it into a national uniform. Best example is COMMUNAL VIOLENCE BILL. For all the Congress supporters I would advise them to read the bill at least once. If they still support the Congress, it goes to prove - VINAASH kAALE VIPAREET BUDHEE!

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  5. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by DrRajpalSingh View Post
    Religion is an individual choice so I never indulge in criticising any religion what so ever and believe in 'SARVA DHARAMAM SAMBHAV' !
    Don't agree with you, Dr. Janghu. In Histroy there are lot of examples of compelling others to convert to some particular religion on the point of sword. In present too there are lot of missionaries and Pakistani agents active in India to convert the Hindus to either Christianity or Islam. Don't know which world you are talking of, Dr. Janghu.

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  7. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by AbhikRana View Post
    If some members feel Hinduism has all the ills, why don't they just give it up?
    I guess Pakistan/ISI have got some agents in India. These agents have appointed their con men in cyber world. These con men find out some foolish reference about Hinduism and then try to misguide others. Some time back I have noticed many of such con men in cyber world. One of the references was very interesting. It was about the name 'Hindu'. Their point was we should not call us as 'Hindu', because this word is given to us by the Arabs. Ha ha ha.
    You tell me if Hinduism is so ancient culture that there was no concept of naming a culture or mode of life, then how could it be possible that we had name (Hindu) from the very beginning? With the evolution some people started calling us Hindu, because we lived around river Sindhu. Then we too felt that if we are being called and recognized as 'Hindu' then let it be. It was part of evolution. We also have given names to others (e.g. Baudh/Buddhist to a lot of people). Tired of such con men. Thank god they don't look around now in cyber world.

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  9. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by upendersingh View Post
    Don't agree with you, Dr. Janghu. In Histroy there are lot of examples of compelling others to convert to some particular religion on the point of sword. In present too there are lot of missionaries and Pakistani agents active in India to convert the Hindus to either Christianity or Islam. Don't know which world you are talking of, Dr. Janghu.
    I respect your right to disagree with me whether it is with any valid reason or not; but would at the same time like to say that before proceeding further one should clarify to oneself the meaning of 'Dharma' as defined in ancient scriptures.

    Kindly also note the thread topic heading before posting your views on the ' historicity or antiquity of the Hinduism' and avoid comments on all religions including Hinduism as practised today.
    History is best when created, better when re-constructed and worst when invented.

  10. #66
    AN APPEAL :

    Members are requested kindly to cooperate, use mild language mixed with solid fact based arguments,


    concentrate their posts on the theme of the thread


    and

    not on the participating members !
    History is best when created, better when re-constructed and worst when invented.

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  12. #67
    Yes ISI is also responsible for Devdasi and Chuachhut traditions of Hinduism propagated by Brahmins.


    Quote Originally Posted by upendersingh View Post
    I guess Pakistan/ISI have got some agents in India. These agents have appointed their con men in cyber world. These con men find out some foolish reference about Hinduism and then try to misguide others. Some time back I have noticed many of such con men in cyber world. One of the references was very interesting. It was about the name 'Hindu'. Their point was we should not call us as 'Hindu', because this word is given to us by the Arabs. Ha ha ha.
    You tell me if Hinduism is so ancient culture that there was no concept of naming a culture or mode of life, then how could it be possible that we had name (Hindu) from the very beginning? With the evolution some people started calling us Hindu, because we lived around river Sindhu. Then we too felt that if we are being called and recognized as 'Hindu' then let it be. It was part of evolution. We also have given names to others (e.g. Baudh/Buddhist to a lot of people). Tired of such con men. Thank god they don't look around now in cyber world.
    "All I am trying to do is bridge the gap between Jats and Rest of World"

    As I shall imagine, so shall I become.

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  14. #68
    If Brahmins have perpetrated bad practices over ages in Hindu religion, how has it survived for thousands of years? How despite all the ills, people still follow it?

    If there have been bad things, there also have been good things in our religion.

    I am glad that you have recognized the problems with the Hindu religion. But what are the solutions? You say that it is for the Brahmins to reform the shortcomings and not us. Who stops you/us from reforming the religion?

    And if one still does not like the religion, one can convert to any other religion. I am glad that Hinduism gives this freedom unlike a few other religions which place a bar on conversions to other faith/religion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Samarkadian View Post
    Yes ISI is also responsible for Devdasi and Chuachhut traditions of Hinduism propagated by Brahmins.

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  16. #69
    Right said Bhaisaab, it's so easy to criticise others for our own shortcomings.

    Samar Bhai, only Hindu religion gives you freedom to criticise like this. If you dared to criticise Islam your situation would be like Taslima Nasreen and many fatwa would have released on your head.

    Btw, chuwachut, sati pratha , baal vivah etc were far better shortcomings than stoning and executing people in public, cutting nose, ears .. and for your info Hindu religion is evolving with time and mostly these ill customs are things of past.

    Quote Originally Posted by AbhikRana View Post
    If Brahmins have perpetrated bad practices over ages in Hindu religion, how has it survived for thousands of years? How despite all the ills, people still follow it?

    If there have been bad things, there also have been good things in our religion.

    I am glad that you have recognized the problems with the Hindu religion. But what are the solutions? You say that it is for the Brahmins to reform the shortcomings and not us. Who stops you/us from reforming the religion?

    And if one still does not like the religion, one can convert to any other religion. I am glad that Hinduism gives this freedom unlike a few other religions which place a bar on conversions to other faith/religion.
    Last edited by cooljat; March 17th, 2014 at 05:32 AM.
    .. " Until Lions have their historians, tales of the hunt shall always glorify the hunter! " ..



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  18. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by upendersingh View Post
    Vishnu idol found in Russia
    During an excavation in an abandoned village in the
    Volga region, archaeologist Alexander Kozhevin excavated an ancient Vishnu idol. The idol dates from between the 7th and 10th centuries. Before this discovery, Kozhevin had already unearthed ancient coins, pendants, rings and weapon fragments. The village, Staraya Maina, had been a dense population center approximately 1700 years ago.The Times of India reported that this discovery raised questions about the prevalent view of the origin of ancient Russia. In an interview Kozhevin stated that, "We may consider it incredible, but we have ground to assert that Middle-Volga region was the original land of Ancient Rus. This is a hypothesis, but a hypothesis, which requires thorough research."
    .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ........

    .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ......

    .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ..........
    Indonesia like much of Southeast Asia was influenced by Indian culture. From the second century, through the Indian Dynasties like the Pallava dynasty, Gupta Empire, Pala Empire and Chola Empire in the succeeding centuries up to the 12th century, Indian culture spread across all of Southeast, References to the Dvipantara or Yawadvipa, a Hindu kingdom in Java and Sumatra appear in Sanskrit writings from 200 BCE. In India's earliest epic, the Ramayana, Sugriva, the chief of Rama's army dispatched his men to Yawadvipa, the island of Java, in search of Sita. The earliest archeological relic discovered in Indonesia is from the Ujung Kulon National Park, West Java, where an early Hindu statue of Ganesha estimated from the 1st century CE was found on the summit of Mount Raksa in Panaitan island.
    .................................................. .................................................. .....
    .................................................. .................................................. .......


    South East Asia and places which were touched Indian traders and military endeavors surely have remnants and traced of Hinduism; no doubt about that. One look at Cambodia's Angkor Wat ruins and the similarity with South Indian temples is unmistakable.

    I was expecting sources, scholarly articles etc since it must have been quite a great find to see idols unearthed in Europe and Latin America. Anyone can plant a pic and write a description on top.
    Pagdi Sambhal Jatta..!

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  20. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Samarkadian View Post
    Yes ISI is also responsible for Devdasi and Chuachhut traditions of Hinduism propagated by Brahmins.

    Look if there were Devdasi and Chuachhut like ill traditions in Hindu religion then we Hindus have made laws to prevent such abuses.

    .................................................. .................................................. ..............................................
    The first legal initiative to outlaw the devadasi system dates back to the 1934 Bombay Devadasi Protection Act. This act pertained to the Bombay province as it existed in theBritish Raj. The Bombay Devadasi Protection Act made dedication of women illegal, whether consensual or not. According to this act, marriage by a devadasi was to be considered lawful and valid, and the children from such wedlock were to be treated as legitimate. The Act also laid down grounds for punitive action that could be taken against any person or persons found to be involved in dedications, except the woman who was being dedicated. Those found guilty of such acts could face a year’s imprisonment, a fine, or both. The 1934 Act also provided rules, which were aimed at protecting the interests of the devadasis. Whenever there was a dispute over ownership of land involving a devadasi, the local Collector was expected to intervene.
    In 1947, the year of independence, the Madras Devadasi (Prevention of Dedication) Act outlawed dedication in the southern Madras Presidency.
    The devadasi system was outlawed in all of India in 1988, yet some devadasis still practice illegally.
    .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .....................................
    The 1950 national constitution of India legally abolished the practice of untouchability and provided measures for positive discrimination in both educational institutions and public services for Dalits and other social groups who lie within the caste system. These are supplemented by official bodies such as the National Commission for Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes.
    .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ......................................
    What more do you expect from Hindus? If you find someone involved in such offences then inform the police.
    Last edited by upendersingh; March 18th, 2014 at 02:28 AM.

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  22. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by swaich View Post
    South East Asia and places which were touched Indian traders and military endeavors surely have remnants and traced of Hinduism; no doubt about that. One look at Cambodia's Angkor Wat ruins and the similarity with South Indian temples is unmistakable.

    I was expecting sources, scholarly articles etc since it must have been quite a great find to see idols unearthed in Europe and Latin America. Anyone can plant a pic and write a description on top.

    I was expecting you to be speechless and unanswered, but you have found out something to save your skin. Ha ha ha...good. That is only way : Increase the demand. It doesn't mean I can not search what you have asked for, but it may be waste of time.

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  24. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by upendersingh View Post
    I was expecting you to be speechless and unanswered, but you have found out something to save your skin. Ha ha ha...good. That is only way : Increase the demand. It doesn't mean I can not search what you have asked for, but it may be waste of time.
    If you paste unverified pics without any supporting links of articles and research then it cannot be credible.

    I did find that ToI article about excavation Vishnu idol in Russian village. I must say its interesting but there is no other article that examines the find. My guess is that if indeed such an idol is found then it may have reache Russia via traders. After all, Roman coins have been unearthed in Pondicherry.

    And there's a lot of fake information floating around in the web so its only to confirm if its genuine information that I ask for sources.
    Pagdi Sambhal Jatta..!

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  26. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by upendersingh View Post
    I guess Pakistan/ISI have got some agents in India. These agents have appointed their con men in cyber world. These con men find out some foolish reference about Hinduism and then try to misguide others. Some time back I have noticed many of such con men in cyber world. One of the references was very interesting. It was about the name 'Hindu'. Their point was we should not call us as 'Hindu', because this word is given to us by the Arabs. Ha ha ha.
    You tell me if Hinduism is so ancient culture that there was no concept of naming a culture or mode of life, then how could it be possible that we had name (Hindu) from the very beginning? With the evolution some people started calling us Hindu, because we lived around river Sindhu. Then we too felt that if we are being called and recognized as 'Hindu' then let it be. It was part of evolution. We also have given names to others (e.g. Baudh/Buddhist to a lot of people). Tired of such con men. Thank god they don't look around now in cyber world.
    How do you know these are con men sent by ISI? Because they don't identify with your views or their opinions are different and go against your beliefs? Sometimes the things we hold sacred due to religious connotations fail to live upto rational scrutiny. You just have to be open minded to understand this. Otherwise there's no room for debate.
    Pagdi Sambhal Jatta..!

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  28. #75
    Certainly Hinduism is an old religion but not the oldest. Thread title says: पृथ्वी पर केवल हिन्दू थे !!!!!!. In my opinion that is not true at all. There were other religions before origin of Hinduism.

  29. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by AbhikRana View Post
    If Brahmins have perpetrated bad practices over ages in Hindu religion, how has it survived for thousands of years? How despite all the ills, people still follow it?

    If there have been bad things, there also have been good things in our religion.

    I am glad that you have recognized the problems with the Hindu religion. But what are the solutions? You say that it is for the Brahmins to reform the shortcomings and not us. Who stops you/us from reforming the religion?

    And if one still does not like the religion, one can convert to any other religion. I am glad that Hinduism gives this freedom unlike a few other religions which place a bar on conversions to other faith/religion.
    Abhik Bhai, its unwise to look at Hinduism minus Brahiminism. Present day more than 95% of Hinduism is brahminism.

    Here if you see I have been saying that without dusting the brahiminsim we won't be able to know what were we as Jats.
    "All I am trying to do is bridge the gap between Jats and Rest of World"

    As I shall imagine, so shall I become.

  30. #77
    Did you read that article yet?


    Quote Originally Posted by cooljat View Post
    Right said Bhaisaab, it's so easy to criticise others for our own shortcomings.

    Samar Bhai, only Hindu religion gives you freedom to criticise like this. If you dared to criticise Islam your situation would be like Taslima Nasreen and many fatwa would have released on your head.

    Btw, chuwachut, sati pratha , baal vivah etc were far better shortcomings than stoning and executing people in public, cutting nose, ears .. and for your info Hindu religion is evolving with time and mostly these ill customs are things of past.
    "All I am trying to do is bridge the gap between Jats and Rest of World"

    As I shall imagine, so shall I become.

  31. #78
    Right, then what prompted Indian Law or Constitution maker Dr Bhim Rao Ambedkar to leave Hinduism.?


    Quote Originally Posted by upendersingh View Post
    Look if there were Devdasi and Chuachhut like ill traditions in Hindu religion then we Hindus have made laws to prevent such abuses.

    .................................................. .................................................. ..............................................
    The first legal initiative to outlaw the devadasi system dates back to the 1934 Bombay Devadasi Protection Act. This act pertained to the Bombay province as it existed in theBritish Raj. The Bombay Devadasi Protection Act made dedication of women illegal, whether consensual or not. According to this act, marriage by a devadasi was to be considered lawful and valid, and the children from such wedlock were to be treated as legitimate. The Act also laid down grounds for punitive action that could be taken against any person or persons found to be involved in dedications, except the woman who was being dedicated. Those found guilty of such acts could face a year’s imprisonment, a fine, or both. The 1934 Act also provided rules, which were aimed at protecting the interests of the devadasis. Whenever there was a dispute over ownership of land involving a devadasi, the local Collector was expected to intervene.
    In 1947, the year of independence, the Madras Devadasi (Prevention of Dedication) Act outlawed dedication in the southern Madras Presidency.
    The devadasi system was outlawed in all of India in 1988, yet some devadasis still practice illegally.
    .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .....................................
    The 1950 national constitution of India legally abolished the practice of untouchability and provided measures for positive discrimination in both educational institutions and public services for Dalits and other social groups who lie within the caste system. These are supplemented by official bodies such as the National Commission for Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes.
    .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ......................................
    What more do you expect from Hindus? If you find someone involved in such offences then inform the police.
    "All I am trying to do is bridge the gap between Jats and Rest of World"

    As I shall imagine, so shall I become.

  32. #79
    I appreciate your point. To discuss further:

    In today's time what do you count in that 95% of Hinduism which you attribute to the Brahmins?
    In today's time if you are a Hindu, how does your right or prerogative to be a Hindu get affected (adversely) by the Brahmins?
    Do Brahmins stop us (Jats) from calling ourselves Hindus?
    Do they stop us (Jats) from being educated?
    Do they stop us (Jats) from from choosing and practicing our vocations/professions of choice?
    Do they stop us (Jats) from us from entering the temples or do Puja/prayers for us?

    In today's time, as far as religion is concerned, how are Brahmins affecting us adversely?

    Hindu is not just Brahmins or Jats, it includes so many other castes. Yes, I agree there were some wrong practices which were perpetrated by the Brahmins in the earlier ages like the priest class in any other religion. But there have been drastic reforms since then.

    As of today, I am not sure if any other religion provides as much freedom as Hinduism.
    1. Hindus (including girls) marry into other religions, they are not thrown out or killed.
    2. Hindus visit churches, mosques, gurudwaras, they are not thrown out.
    3. Hindus can freely convert to other religion, they are not killed. In fact even today, there are parents who do give one son in the family to Sikhism.
    4. If you do not visit a temple, you are not thrown out.

    With so much of elasticity and so much of freedom, we (JATS) still Constantly criticize our own faith. I am not denying that there is no need for any reform. Need for reforms would always be there with everything, but at the same time we need to take pride in what we are because if we abuse our own religion, others will. And if still someone is fed up with Hinduism, he/she can freely walk away from it and embrace a better religion.




    Quote Originally Posted by Samarkadian View Post
    Abhik Bhai, its unwise to look at Hinduism minus Brahiminism. Present day more than 95% of Hinduism is brahminism.

    Here if you see I have been saying that without dusting the brahiminsim we won't be able to know what were we as Jats.
    Last edited by AbhikRana; March 18th, 2014 at 04:29 PM.

  33. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by swaich View Post
    How do you know these are con men sent by ISI? Because they don't identify with your views or their opinions are different and go against your beliefs? Sometimes the things we hold sacred due to religious connotations fail to live upto rational scrutiny. You just have to be open minded to understand this. Otherwise there's no room for debate.

    They can be identified. They are stuck to their stand badly and no logics or evidences work. They just stick to their stand, because if they agree upon good logic and evidences their master will be angry and such con men will be taken as lame horses, unable to deliver.

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