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Thread: पृथ्वी पर केवल हिन्दू थे !!!!!!

  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by swaich View Post
    If you paste unverified pics without any supporting links of articles and research then it cannot be credible.

    I did find that ToI article about excavation Vishnu idol in Russian village. I must say its interesting but there is no other article that examines the find. My guess is that if indeed such an idol is found then it may have reache Russia via traders. After all, Roman coins have been unearthed in Pondicherry.

    And there's a lot of fake information floating around in the web so its only to confirm if its genuine information that I ask for sources.

    I knowingly didn't paste the link, but I can.
    Last edited by upendersingh; March 18th, 2014 at 05:16 PM.

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  3. #82
    What is this Hinduism which some are criticising and others are trying to defend?
    जागरूक ती अज्ञानी नहीं बनाया जा सके, स्वाभिमानी का अपमान नहीं करा जा सके , निडर ती दबाया नहीं जा सके भाई नुए सामाजिक क्रांति एक बार आ जे तो उसती बदला नहीं जा सके ---ज्याणी जाट।

    दोस्त हो या दुश्मन, जाट दोनुआ ने १०० साल ताईं याद राखा करे

  4. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by Samarkadian View Post
    Right, then what prompted Indian Law or Constitution maker Dr Bhim Rao Ambedkar to leave Hinduism.?
    Liberal nature of Hinduism and opportunist attitude of Dr. Bhim Rao Ambedkar prompted him to leave Hinduism. If he was a Muslim and tried to leave Islam, then might be punished badly.
    .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ......................
    In December 2005, Nigerian pastor Zacheous Habu Bu Ngwenche was attacked for allegedly hiding a convert. In January 2006, in Turkey, Kamil Kiroglu was beaten unconscious and threatened with death if he refused to deny his Christian faith and return to Islam. In a highly public case, the Malaysian Federal Court did not let Lina Joy to change her religion status in her I/C in a 2-1 decision.
    The Council of Ex-Muslims of Britain is the British branch of the Central Council of Ex-Muslims, who represent former Muslims who fear for their lives because they have renounced Islam. It was launched in Westminster on 22 June 2007. The Council protests against Islamic states that still punish Muslim apostates with death under the Sharia law. The Council is led by Maryam Namazie, who was awarded Secularist of the Year in 2005 and has faced death threats. The British Humanist Association and National Secular Society sponsored the launch of the organisation and have supported its activities since.
    Ehsan Jami, co-founder of The Central Committee for Ex-Muslims in the Netherlands has received several death threats, and due to the amount of threats its members received, the Committee was dismantled.
    A 2010 poll by Pew Research Center showed that 86% of Muslims in Jordan, 30% in Indonesia, 76% in Pakistan, 6% in Lebanon and 51% of Nigerian Muslims agree with death penalty for leaving Islam.
    A 2007 poll by Policy Exchange revealed that 31% of British Muslims believed that leaving the Muslim religion should be punishable by death.

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  6. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by upendersingh View Post
    They can be identified. They are stuck to their stand badly and no logics or evidences work. They just stick to their stand, because if they agree upon good logic and evidences their master will be angry and such con men will be taken as lame horses, unable to deliver.
    I agree, people can be obstinate but maybe something is wrong with the evidences too? Going by what you shared, pictures and reported news links don't always cut ice.

    On the topic itself - Hinduism is definitely among the oldest religions but there's no way to prove its the ancestor of all ancient religions.
    Last edited by swaich; March 18th, 2014 at 05:53 PM.
    Pagdi Sambhal Jatta..!

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  8. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by swaich View Post
    I agree, people can be obstinate but maybe something is wrong with the evidences too? Going by what you shared, pictures and reported news links don't always cut ice.

    On the topic itself - Hinduism is definitely among the oldest religions but there's no way to prove its the ancestor of all ancient religions.

    I was not interested in this thread earlier because of this reason, because if in some foreign country some traces of Hinduism or vedic culture are found then it is self killing for those countries if they let it come out openly that they have unearthed some Hindu traces as how can they themselves agree upon it they were not what they are in present?

    By the way, do you rely upon this link :
    .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .....................................
    Indonesia like much of Southeast Asia was influenced by Indian culture. From the second century, through the Indian Dynasties like the Pallava dynasty, Gupta Empire, Pala Empire and Chola Empire in the succeeding centuries up to the 12th century, Indian culture spread across all of Southeast, References to the Dvipantara or Yawadvipa, a Hindu kingdom in Java and Sumatra appear in Sanskrit writings from 200 BCE. In India's earliest epic, the Ramayana, Sugriva, the chief of Rama's army dispatched his men to Yawadvipa, the island of Java, in search of Sita. The earliest archeological relic discovered in Indonesia is from the Ujung Kulon National Park, West Java, where an early Hindu statue of Ganesha estimated from the 1st century CE was found on the summit of Mount Raksa inPanaitan island.
    Link

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  10. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by upendersingh View Post
    I was not interested in this thread earlier because of this reason, because if in some foreign country some traces of Hinduism or vedic culture are found then it is self killing for those countries if they let it come out openly that they have unearthed some Hindu traces as how can they themselves agree upon it they were not what they are in present?

    By the way, do you rely upon this link :
    .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .....................................
    Indonesia like much of Southeast Asia was influenced by Indian culture. From the second century, through the Indian Dynasties like the Pallava dynasty, Gupta Empire, Pala Empire and Chola Empire in the succeeding centuries up to the 12th century, Indian culture spread across all of Southeast, References to the Dvipantara or Yawadvipa, a Hindu kingdom in Java and Sumatra appear in Sanskrit writings from 200 BCE. In India's earliest epic, the Ramayana, Sugriva, the chief of Rama's army dispatched his men to Yawadvipa, the island of Java, in search of Sita. The earliest archeological relic discovered in Indonesia is from the Ujung Kulon National Park, West Java, where an early Hindu statue of Ganesha estimated from the 1st century CE was found on the summit of Mount Raksa inPanaitan island.
    Link
    You could be right that certain vested interests may not want links with Hinduism to come out. But in today's age of information any such find of ancient connections with Hinduism in Europe and the West would be a big discovery and can hardly be hidden and will be explored by historians and researchers.

    I have already mentioned traces/remnants of Hinduism in SE and Central Asia are well known as these areas were in direct contact with Indian traders or military contingents. There's no doubt about them. Its just the regions beyond - Europe, Africa, LatAm, NA that are doubtful.

    And about the link - Wikipedia is often thought to be unworthy but the real insights lie in the references used by the wiki article and noted underneath the page. In this case the article quotes a scholarly book - ^Mary Somers Heidhues. Southeast Asia: A Concise History. London: Thames and Hudson, 2000. Pp. 45 and 63. So it appears credible.
    Pagdi Sambhal Jatta..!

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  12. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by swaich View Post
    So it appears credible.
    So earlier only one source was appearing credible to you and now it's two. Well, lets move ahead.
    Watch the below given image. It is true that in South Germany a lion man's image was found some decades back. Now you can say it is not written on this image that it is the image of Lord Vishnu (Narsimha). Very true. Though if it is Lord Vishnu's image in real, then too no one can prove it, but there is a history of unearthed Hindu idols so we Hindus' chances look stronger.
    .................................................. .................................................. ...........................................



    On August 25, 1939, archaeologists working at a Paleolithic site called Stadelhole (stable cave) at Hohlenstein (hollow rock) in southern Germany, uncovered hundreds of mammoth ivory fragments. Just one week later, before they could complete their fieldwork and analyze the finds, World War II began. The team was forced to quickly fill the excavation trenches using the same soil in which they found the ivory pieces. For the next three decades, the fragments sat in storage at the nearby City Museum of Ulm, until archaeologist Joachim Hahn began an inventory. As Hahn pieced together more than 200 fragments, an extraordinary artifact dating to the Aurignacian period (more than 30,000 years ago) began to emerge. It was clearly a figure with both human and animal characteristics. However, only a small part of the head and the left ear had been found, so the type of creature it represented remained a mystery.
    Between 1972 and 1975, additional fragments from excavation seasons in the 1960s, which had been stored elsewhere, and still others picked up from the cave's floor, were taken to the museum. Yet it took until 1982 for paleontologist Elizabeth Schmidt to put the new pieces together with Hahn's earlier reconstruction. Schmidt not only corrected several old errors, but also added parts of the nose and mouth that made it clear that the figurine had a cat's head. Although the artifact is often called Lowenmensch (the lion man), the word mensch is not specifically male in German, and neither the gender of the animal nor of its human parts is discernible. Five years later, to conserve the figurine, the glue that held it together was dissolved. It was then carefully put back together, revealing that only about two thirds of the original had actually been recovered.
    This changed in 2008, when archaeologist Claus-Joachim Kind returned to the site at Hohlenstein. Kind removed the old backfill from the hastily concluded excavation of 1939. Over the next three years, Kind's team found several hundred more small mammoth ivory fragments. In 2009, when we found the first ones, it was a huge surprise, says Kind. But this is exactly the spot where the fragments of the figurine were originally found, so I knew right away that some belonged to the lion man. It had clearly been damaged during the earlier excavations. Only the larger pieces were collected and the smaller ones left behind, he adds. Kind was able to fit several of the new pieces to form part of the back and neck, and a computer simulation of the lion man was created, showing the placement of several more previously unattached fragments. At the end of the 2011 season, all the backfill will have been removed. There will be no more pieces left, says Kind. We hope that the lion man will finally be complete.
    Link
    Last edited by upendersingh; March 18th, 2014 at 11:29 PM.

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  14. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by upendersingh View Post
    So earlier only one source was appearing credible to you and now it's two. Well, lets move ahead.
    Watch the below given image. It is true that in South Germany a lion man's image was found some decades back. Now you can say it is not written on this image that it is the image of Lord Vishnu (Narsimha). Very true. Though if it is Lord Vishnu's image in real, then too no one can prove it, but there is a history of unearthed Hindu idols so we Hindus' chances look stronger.
    .................................................. .................................................. ...........................................



    On August 25, 1939, archaeologists working at a Paleolithic site called Stadelhole (stable cave) at Hohlenstein (hollow rock) in southern Germany, uncovered hundreds of mammoth ivory fragments. Just one week later, before they could complete their fieldwork and analyze the finds, World War II began. The team was forced to quickly fill the excavation trenches using the same soil in which they found the ivory pieces. For the next three decades, the fragments sat in storage at the nearby City Museum of Ulm, until archaeologist Joachim Hahn began an inventory. As Hahn pieced together more than 200 fragments, an extraordinary artifact dating to the Aurignacian period (more than 30,000 years ago) began to emerge. It was clearly a figure with both human and animal characteristics. However, only a small part of the head and the left ear had been found, so the type of creature it represented remained a mystery.
    Between 1972 and 1975, additional fragments from excavation seasons in the 1960s, which had been stored elsewhere, and still others picked up from the cave's floor, were taken to the museum. Yet it took until 1982 for paleontologist Elizabeth Schmidt to put the new pieces together with Hahn's earlier reconstruction. Schmidt not only corrected several old errors, but also added parts of the nose and mouth that made it clear that the figurine had a cat's head. Although the artifact is often called Lowenmensch (the lion man), the word mensch is not specifically male in German, and neither the gender of the animal nor of its human parts is discernible. Five years later, to conserve the figurine, the glue that held it together was dissolved. It was then carefully put back together, revealing that only about two thirds of the original had actually been recovered.
    This changed in 2008, when archaeologist Claus-Joachim Kind returned to the site at Hohlenstein. Kind removed the old backfill from the hastily concluded excavation of 1939. Over the next three years, Kind's team found several hundred more small mammoth ivory fragments. In 2009, when we found the first ones, it was a huge surprise, says Kind. But this is exactly the spot where the fragments of the figurine were originally found, so I knew right away that some belonged to the lion man. It had clearly been damaged during the earlier excavations. Only the larger pieces were collected and the smaller ones left behind, he adds. Kind was able to fit several of the new pieces to form part of the back and neck, and a computer simulation of the lion man was created, showing the placement of several more previously unattached fragments. At the end of the 2011 season, all the backfill will have been removed. There will be no more pieces left, says Kind. We hope that the lion man will finally be complete.
    Link
    There was just one source and in any case as I have mentioned twice now I already knew about SE Asia's connections with Hinduisms as its well known and documented. No disputes there and neither does it prove the original topic of the thread.

    Now, thanks for sharing the Lion Man. I wasn't aware if it and its certainly an extraordinary find. To imagine people creating such artwork 30k years ago is simply mind-blowing.

    However, the connection with Narasimha is purely conjencture as the archaelogists haven't said so. First, we don't know if its male or female sculpture. Secondly and more importantly, there's no evidence of Hinduism having origin beyong 2500 years ago that is the early Vedic period and certainly not beyond Central Asia. I can however understand why someone who is very religiously inclined can believe that there is a connection. But logically speaking, based on facts, there is no connection here.
    Pagdi Sambhal Jatta..!

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  16. #89
    Good piece of information Upender ji,

    There is bound to be some connection between Hinduism and other religions/faiths/civilizations/customs/traditions of the same/later era.

    Hindus have since its earlier days believed in and worshiped Gods and Goddesses of nature (Wind, Sun, etc) and so have other civilizations like the Mayans (in Latin America).

    We don't need a stamp of approval from the western scholars to believe in the antiquity, richness and greatness of our religion. Unlike a few others, despite all its shortcomings of the past and a few still, I am proud to be a Hindu. I fully believe that there is a possibility that our religion was the progenitor of all or many other faiths/religions of course including Sikhs, Jains and a sizeable chunk which has gone on to embrace the so-called minority religion (with the sword hanging on their heads).

    Quote Originally Posted by upendersingh View Post
    So earlier only one source was appearing credible to you and now it's two. Well, lets move ahead.
    Watch the below given image. It is true that in South Germany a lion man's image was found some decades back. Now you can say it is not written on this image that it is the image of Lord Vishnu (Narsimha). Very true. Though if it is Lord Vishnu's image in real, then too no one can prove it, but there is a history of unearthed Hindu idols so we Hindus' chances look stronger.
    .................................................. .................................................. ...........................................



    On August 25, 1939, archaeologists working at a Paleolithic site called Stadelhole (stable cave) at Hohlenstein (hollow rock) in southern Germany, uncovered hundreds of mammoth ivory fragments. Just one week later, before they could complete their fieldwork and analyze the finds, World War II began. The team was forced to quickly fill the excavation trenches using the same soil in which they found the ivory pieces. For the next three decades, the fragments sat in storage at the nearby City Museum of Ulm, until archaeologist Joachim Hahn began an inventory. As Hahn pieced together more than 200 fragments, an extraordinary artifact dating to the Aurignacian period (more than 30,000 years ago) began to emerge. It was clearly a figure with both human and animal characteristics. However, only a small part of the head and the left ear had been found, so the type of creature it represented remained a mystery.
    Between 1972 and 1975, additional fragments from excavation seasons in the 1960s, which had been stored elsewhere, and still others picked up from the cave's floor, were taken to the museum. Yet it took until 1982 for paleontologist Elizabeth Schmidt to put the new pieces together with Hahn's earlier reconstruction. Schmidt not only corrected several old errors, but also added parts of the nose and mouth that made it clear that the figurine had a cat's head. Although the artifact is often called Lowenmensch (the lion man), the word mensch is not specifically male in German, and neither the gender of the animal nor of its human parts is discernible. Five years later, to conserve the figurine, the glue that held it together was dissolved. It was then carefully put back together, revealing that only about two thirds of the original had actually been recovered.
    This changed in 2008, when archaeologist Claus-Joachim Kind returned to the site at Hohlenstein. Kind removed the old backfill from the hastily concluded excavation of 1939. Over the next three years, Kind's team found several hundred more small mammoth ivory fragments. In 2009, when we found the first ones, it was a huge surprise, says Kind. But this is exactly the spot where the fragments of the figurine were originally found, so I knew right away that some belonged to the lion man. It had clearly been damaged during the earlier excavations. Only the larger pieces were collected and the smaller ones left behind, he adds. Kind was able to fit several of the new pieces to form part of the back and neck, and a computer simulation of the lion man was created, showing the placement of several more previously unattached fragments. At the end of the 2011 season, all the backfill will have been removed. There will be no more pieces left, says Kind. We hope that the lion man will finally be complete.
    Link

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  18. #90
    Since the thread relates to History section which requires authenticated data to prove or un-prove the hypotheses and conclusions, nothing like that is emerging in the thread as most of the posts are vague and based on generalised statements of the participants.

    Therefore, to give time to the interested participants to prepare their fact based notes, the thread is being closed for the time being temporarily.

    Inconvenience, if any, caused to anyone is regretted !
    History is best when created, better when re-constructed and worst when invented.

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