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Thread: Unearthing the Ancient Jat History in Saurashtra (Gujarat)

  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by lrburdak View Post
    Thanks for the information, Burdak Sahib.
    History is best when created, better when re-constructed and worst when invented.

  2. #62
    Karamsad: the birth place of Sardar Ballabh Bhai Patel

    Karamsad is a city in Anand district in Gujarat. It is part of the Chhagaam Gol ("Circle of Six Villages").

    Sardar Vallabhbhai Patel, one of India's greatest leaders in the Indian Independence Movement grew up in Karamsad. It was also the home of his elder brother Vithalbhai Patel, who was also an important political leader. The Patel brothers lived with their two elder brothers and one younger brother and sister, and parents Jhaverbhai and Ladba Patel in a mud-brick house adjacent to his family's farm holdings. This house is preserved to date as a memorial to Patel.

    History of Karamsad

    The date of establishment of Karamsad is not exactly known, but during the era of Kumarpal i.e., in 1155 AD, the village consisted mainly of people from Koli tribes. This community lacked proper agricultural skills. Because of this, they used to rob, steal or work as servants if opportunity permitted.

    In 1211, Aja Patel, originally from Hilod (a town near Adalaj), came over and settled here. Because of his skills, agricultural production increased and the village prospered.

    The details henceforth from Aja Patel to Kupa Patel are not available, however Kupa Patel was from the twelfth or fourteenth generation of Aja Patel. Kupa Patel was an ardent devotee of Lord Shiva. He had got Lord Shiva's temple renovated, which was in ruins and situated in the western side of the village. That was well built by his son Lakha Patel. He had also helped build a lake in the village.

    Devidas, a few generations down had two sons. Jibhai and Bajibhai. His sons asked the Moghul Governor of Ahmedabad Province to let them keep Karamsad for revenue collection. Out of them, Majibhai's four sons and their descendants got themselves distributed in six different Khadkis (street or lane before a group of two or more houses with a common gate) in Karamsad.

    Six different Khadkis were formed in Karamsad after the six descendents of Mahijibhai.

    Bhayni Khadki (Gokaldas)
    Bapani Khadki (Govendas)
    Hathibhaini Khadki (Sunderdas)
    Motabhaini Khadki (Jivabhai)
    Jini Khadki (Bhavijibhai)
    Chhatthi Khadki (Laljibhai)

    Patidars of Karamsad

    The Patidars of Karamsad are well known in the social community of Chha Gam (six villages). Patidars of Gujarat are the descendants of Aryans. Aryans were settled on the Pamir's High Lands near Amu Darya in Central Asia. They moved in three different group over the time for their existence. From these Aryans, one group went towards Europe, another group moved to Iran and last group of Aaryans came to Punjab, India via Afghanistan. Around 250 B.C. a social order came into existence amongst Aryans with four varnas namely

    (1) Brahmin (2) Kshtriya (3) Vaishya and (4) Shudra. In the beginning, while these classes were in the process of being established, the present Patidars were Kshtriyas and settled in Punjab. Thereafter, Kshtriyas were further subdivided into three kinds known as

    (1) Rajan-Raj (2) Kshtriya (3) Kurmi-Kshtriya.

    Rajan were the leaders of several small groups and were called Kings. Kshtriyas work was to fight the battles, engage in.war and help the kings in administration all the year round. Kurmi Kshtriyas were helping in war with the enemy or invasion from outside but in peace time were doing agriculture in the fertile region of Seven River's Valley- Sapta Sindhu together with animal husbandry on a large scale.

    During the period between 400 A.D, to 700 A.D. many Lauva Patidar Families (Loh - Kurmis) of North India, Rajasthan and North Gujarat came and settled in Adalaj. When Siddhraj conquered Malva Desh, he invited thousands of Kanbi families to Patana. Ramji Patel brought with him some six hundred Patidar families and settled in Adalaj. This is how Adalaj became the first main settlement of Lauva Patidars in Gujarat.

    From 500 A.D. Patidars of Adalaj spread to Bhal, Dashkoi and Khambat Regions and in the sixth century further from Khambat, spread all over Kaira District. During this period Ramji Patel accompanying so many Kurmi families from Adalaj went to Charotar Region. These Kurmi families broke the wild virgin land of Charotar, ploughed it and made-arable and most fertile and there settled permanently carrying on agriculture. From 1430 A.D. the down fall of Champaner began and from thereon Patidars of Champaner reached right up to Valsad via Vadodara. Few went to Kanam-Vakar Region.

    In Gujarat, the word Patel is 300 years old. During this period, there was one Patel named Vir Vasandas from Piplav (Dist. Kaira) who used to have good relation with the Moghul Emperor Aurangzeb. He organised the Conference of the entire Kanbi Community in 1759 (1703 A.D.) under the auspices of Bahadur Shah a Shajada of Aurangzeb and in this gathering persuaded him to enter the word "Patidar" instead of "Kanbi" in Badshah's Revenue Records. Patidar means one who has the land. Thereafter, he influenced Moghul Emperor in Delhi and Moghul Subah (Governor) of Gujarat to authorise Patidars to collect Land Revenue. The Patidars who were given this authority were called "Amin", while during the reign of Peshwas those authorised to collect the Revenue were called "Desai". Like wise amongst Patidars in addition to surname Patel there began surnames like Amin and Desai. Vir Vasandas was the first Amin of Gujarat.

    Five hundred years ago all the Patidars were farmers, all were equal and no body was of higher or lower class (Kul-Family). There were no classes, circles or groups in give and take of girls in marriage. All the Patidars, Kadva as well as Lauva according to their convenience were arranging girl's marriages in whole of Gujarat. Ahmedabad City was founded in 1413 A.D. Prosperous and educated Patidars from villages went to Ahmedabad and started setting there. Over the course of years Patidars of Ahmedabad City became wealthy and prosperous and therefore being counted as of Higher Social Strata and Family (Kul). Patidar farmers from villages rushed to the City in search of suitable Boys to give their daughters in marriage resulting into a competition and an emergence of a Custom of Dowry and Dahej (Matrimonial property to the Girl in marriage). The farmers from the villages had to incur heavy expenditure as a result of which the birth of a girl was considered to be a bad Omen. At last, Village Patidars awoke and around 1700 A.D. only Lauva Patidars decided not to give in marriage their daughters in Ahmedabad. But during the same period one inequality arose i.e. some big families of the villages received Grants of Aminat and Desaigiri resulting in a big increase in their income. A wealthy and prosperous class came into existence with whom in turn, the ordinary villagers rushed and compete to give their daughter in marriage. The amount of Dowry and Dahej (Matrimonial property including Jewellery, Clothes & wherewithal) gradually increased. After 1800 A.D. those villages which were considered to be of Higher Social strata and of noble families (Kulvan) ceased to give their daughters in marriage outside their certain villages and which over the period established as a Custom.

    Thus created a big inequality in give and take of girls in marriage and in fact in 1869 A.D. Nadiad, Karamsad, Vaso, Sojitra and other fifteen villages created their own Circle (Gor). In 1888 Patidar Panch met in Dakor with 10,000 representatives present. This panch made a tremendous effort to remove the said inequality but Patidars could not agree amongst themselves. As a result the Circle (Gor) created some 20 years back by Nadiad, Karamsad etc. was firmly established and also thereafter, other two Circles (Gor) were created. Following in another twenty years some fifty large and small Circles (Gors) of Lauva - Patidars were created in Gujarat . It is said that the size of Patidar's Heart in comparison with other Gujaratis is bit bigger but his tongue is more sharper and with that kind of nature both good and bad results have come.
    Laxman Burdak

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by lrburdak View Post
    Karamsad: the birth place of Sardar Ballabh Bhai Patel

    Karamsad is a city in Anand district in Gujarat. It is part of the Chhagaam Gol ("Circle of Six Villages").

    Sardar Vallabhbhai Patel, one of India's greatest leaders in the Indian Independence Movement grew up in Karamsad. It was also the home of his elder brother Vithalbhai Patel, who was also an important political leader. The Patel brothers lived with their two elder brothers and one younger brother and sister, and parents Jhaverbhai and Ladba Patel in a mud-brick house adjacent to his family's farm holdings. This house is preserved to date as a memorial to Patel.

    History of Karamsad

    The date of establishment of Karamsad is not exactly known, but during the era of Kumarpal i.e., in 1155 AD, the village consisted mainly of people from Kolitribes. This community lacked proper agricultural skills. Because of this, they used to rob, steal or work as servants if opportunity permitted.

    In 1211, Aja Patel, originally from Hilod (a town near Adalaj), came over and settled here. Because of his skills, agricultural production increased and the village prospered.

    The details henceforth from Aja Patel to Kupa Patel are not available, however Kupa Patel was from the twelfth or fourteenth generation of Aja Patel. Kupa Patel was an ardent devotee of Lord Shiva. He had got Lord Shiva's temple renovated, which was in ruins and situated in the western side of the village. That was well built by his son Lakha Patel. He had also helped build a lake in the village.

    ..............These Kurmi families broke the wild virgin land of Charotar, ploughed it and made-arable and most fertile and there settled permanently carrying on agriculture. From 1430 A.D. the down fall of Champaner began and from thereon Patidars of Champaner reached right up to Valsad via Vadodara. Few went to Kanam-Vakar Region.

    In Gujarat, the word Patel is 300 years old. During this period, there was one Patel named Vir Vasandas from Piplav (Dist. Kaira) who used to have good relation with the Moghul Emperor Aurangzeb. He organised the Conference of the entire Kanbi Community in 1759 (1703 A.D.) under the auspices of Bahadur Shah a Shajada of Aurangzeb and in this gathering persuaded him to enter the word "Patidar" instead of "Kanbi" in Badshah's Revenue Records. Patidar means one who has the land. Thereafter, he influenced Moghul Emperor in Delhi and Moghul Subah (Governor) of Gujarat to authorise Patidars to collect Land Revenue. The Patidars who were given this authority were called "Amin", while during the reign of Peshwas those authorised to collect the Revenue were called "Desai". Like wise amongst Patidars in addition to surname Patel there began surnames like Amin and Desai. Vir Vasandas was the first Amin of Gujarat.



    Friend,

    Thanks for detailed note but it would be better if it is supported by references regarding sources used. Could you kindly share the same.

    The description does not reflect what Commandant Sangwan has claimed in his book that Jats from UP were later on styled as Patels. Your findings say Kurmis became Patels.

    Now the question arises which of the two, according to you, is acceptable and why the other be treated as baseless.

    There are certain more questions before the authenticity of the write up is accepted as historical description of the word 'Patel' or the conclusions like :Vir Vasandas was the first Amin of Gujarat are accepted as authentic conclusions on the topic of discussion.

    Was the 'Amin' post not existing in Gujarat prior to the period of Vasandas.

    Second how do you reconcile the two statements given in the post marked red by me about existence of Patel.

    Could you clarify to put the record straight !

    Thanks and regaards
    History is best when created, better when re-constructed and worst when invented.

  4. #64
    Panini and the term 'JAT'

    Dear friends,
    I wish you all a happy coming new year.
    I am rejoining after a long break of several years. pardon me if I look obsolete in some respects. I have to pick up slowly. The curent discussions on the term 'JAT' is recurring. I had extensively explaine the same in my posts way back. Permit me to restate:
    The Dhatuptha of Panini lists the verbal stem (dhatu) 'jat' in the sense of a cluster (sanghata), or thicket or closest possible heaping of inanimate objects (aprani-samuha). Unfortunately it has been misconstrued as a synonym of 'Sangha' which means an association of animates (prani-samuha).
    Further, Panini's sutra -'kartari cha karake sanjnayam' clearly prohibits the formation of a term from the Dhatu 'jat' if it were to be used in the nominative case i.e. as a subject. But our term JAT is very much a term used and understood as one of nominative case. If we are looking for the antiquity of the term panini does not help. Throughout the Sanskrit literature a clear distinction has been seen for the difference in the meanings of the two terms i.e. Sangha and Sanghata.
    Thanks.
    Last edited by drssrana2003; December 29th, 2014 at 03:33 PM.

  5. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to drssrana2003 For This Useful Post:

    DrRajpalSingh (December 29th, 2014), lrburdak (January 3rd, 2015)

  6. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by drssrana2003 View Post
    Panini and the term 'JAT'

    Dear friends,
    I wish you all a happy coming new year.
    I am rejoining after a long break of several years. pardon me if I look obsolete in some respects. I have to pick up slowly. The curent discussions on the term 'JAT' is recurring. I had extensively explaine the same in my posts way back. Permit me to retate:
    The Dhatupstha of Panini lists the verbal stem (dhatu) 'jat' in the sense of a cluster (sanghata), or thicket or closest possible heaping of inanimate objects (aprani-samuha). Unfortunately it has been misconstrued as a synonym of 'Sangha' which means an association of animates (prani-samuha).
    Further, Panini's sutra -akartari cha karake sanjnayam clearly prohibits the formation of a term from the Dhatu jat if it were to be used in the nominative case i.e. as a subject. But our term JAT is very much a term uased and understood as one of nominative case. If we are looking for ther antiquity of thwe term Panini does not help. Throughout trhe Sanskrit literature a clear distinction has been seen for the difference in the meanings of Sangha and Sanghata.
    Some more in the next post if possible.
    Thanks.


    Welcome back and a very Happy new year to you.

    Completely agree with your findings.

    Panini term जट in astadhyayi has abslolute no relation with race termed जाट जट today.

  7. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to narenderkharb For This Useful Post:

    DrRajpalSingh (December 29th, 2014), drssrana2003 (January 2nd, 2015)

  8. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by drssrana2003 View Post
    Panini and the term 'JAT'

    Dear friends,
    I wish you all a happy coming new year.
    I am rejoining after a long break of several years. pardon me if I look obsolete in some respects. I have to pick up slowly. The curent discussions on the term 'JAT' is recurring. I had extensively explaine the same in my posts way back. Permit me to restate:
    The Dhatuptha of Panini lists the verbal stem (dhatu) 'jat' in the sense of a cluster (sanghata), or thicket or closest possible heaping of inanimate objects (aprani-samuha). Unfortunately it has been misconstrued as a synonym of 'Sangha' which means an association of animates (prani-samuha).
    Further, Panini's sutra -'kartari cha karake sanjnayam' clearly prohibits the formation of a term from the Dhatu 'jat' if it were to be used in the nominative case i.e. as a subject. But our term JAT is very much a term used and understood as one of nominative case. If we are looking for the antiquity of the term panini does not help. Throughout the Sanskrit literature a clear distinction has been seen for the difference in the meanings of the two terms i.e. Sangha and Sanghata.
    Thanks.
    Respected Rana Sahib,

    It would be kind of you if you could share with us the first reference in our Sanskrit literature on the Jats that might have come to your knowledge during your long association with the subject study/teaching/research.

    Thanks and regards
    History is best when created, better when re-constructed and worst when invented.

  9. The Following User Says Thank You to DrRajpalSingh For This Useful Post:

    drssrana2003 (January 2nd, 2015)

  10. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by DrRajpalSingh View Post
    Respected Rana Sahib,

    It would be kind of you if you could share with us the first reference in our Sanskrit literature on the Jats that might have come to your knowledge during your long association with the subject study/teaching/research.

    Thanks and regards


























    The Term Jat in Sanskrit Literature

    Dear Dr. Rajpal,
    As far as I know and on the basis of enquities made to motr knowledgable scholars of Sanskrit I can say that there is no term like Jaat used in the sense of a caste group as we use it today.At the same time I would like to point out that some people (though well meaning) in their enthusaism to trace a hoarypast of the People called Jats today have stretched things a bit hard.I briefly give the themes:
    1. Panini is quoted variously but unwarrantedly to have used the term Jat for a group of persons representing a caste. The sutra often quoted does not allow what is being proved.
    2. The mere mention of a root sounding our term Jat is a coincidence of sound and not sense.
    3. The Sanskrit terms Jataa (with hard T), Jatila, Jaatya simply refer to tuft of hair formed with the core root 'jat/ indicating a sanghaata *soft T )
    4.Some forged Sanskrit text of 18th or nineteenth century by one Gorakh Sinhis cited to show the use of the term Jaat for a caste. No serious scho;ar of Sanskrit takes it seriously.
    Last edited by drssrana2003; January 2nd, 2015 at 09:42 PM. Reason: TO DELETE EXTRA TE

  11. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by drssrana2003 View Post
    The Term Jat in Sanskrit Literature

    Dear Dr. Rajpal,
    As far as I know and on the basis of enquities made to motr knowledgable scholars of Sanskrit I can say that there is no term like Jaat used in the sense of a caste group as we use it today.At the same time I would like to point out that some people (though well meaning) in their enthusaism to trace a hoarypast of the People called Jats today have stretched things a bit hard.I briefly give the themes:
    1. Panini is quoted variously but unwarrantedly to have used the term Jat for a group of persons representing a caste. The sutra often quoted does not allow what is being proved.
    2. The mere mention of a root sounding our term Jat is a coincidence of sound and not sense.
    3. The Sanskrit terms Jataa (with hard T), Jatila, Jaatya simply refer to tuft of hair formed with the core root 'jat/ indicating a sanghaata *soft T )
    4.Some forged Sanskrit text of 18th or nineteenth century by one Gorakh Sinhis cited to show the use of the term Jaat for a caste. No serious scho;ar of Sanskrit takes it seriously.
    Thanks for the information.

    It would be good to know when the word 'Jat' representing our community came to be written as such and in which language. It would be good if you couls shade some light on the issue to point out the first use of the word Jat representing Jat community !
    History is best when created, better when re-constructed and worst when invented.

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