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Thread: Foreign Invasions on India in Medieval Times - Causes, Events and their Impact

  1. #181
    Quote Originally Posted by swaich View Post
    Don't know about Rajpal ji, but I would agree with you. The call for Jihad gave their military campaigns a religious legitimacy and possibly swelled their ranks with recruits. The real reasons was always loot. Central Asia, from most of these (apart from Qasim) came, had a long history and prevalent culture of invasions for looting.
    Ok..so that proves that the all of these invaders mustered army at the name of religion quite easily and motivated them to invade kaafir for the sake of "Islam". It fulfilled two purposes "plundering the wealth" and "slaying kaafirs to spread terror of Islam" .... . Even if these invaders were not religious freak ,the army was religious freak and quite enthusiastic in plundering and slaying of the "kaafirs", Venomous Islam!

    So if plundering was the main purpose , religious purpose was also not far behind!
    Become more and more innocent, less knowledgeable and more childlike. Take life as fun - because that's precisely what it is!

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  3. #182
    Quote Originally Posted by ravichaudhary View Post
    No disrespect to anyone, but we will maintain two separate threads.

    So far any positive contribution by Islam has been drowned by the noise about its negative effects.

    This is an opportunity for all to provide data about the positive effects, in a thread started for that very purpose.

    Ravi Chaudhary
    Friend,

    Thanks for taking over the thread discussion charge by giving new direction by bifurcating it into two threads and to discuss it in piece-meal style.

    Wish happy discussion. of the same topic at two places styled as positive and negative aspects of the causes, events and impacts of the foreign invasions during Medieval times.

    Thanks and regards.
    History is best when created, better when re-constructed and worst when invented.

  4. #183
    Quote Originally Posted by prashantacmet View Post
    Can you please start from Kasim and put forth the primary source in the support of your opinion?
    Mohd. bin Qasim, who invaded Sindh [India] in c.712 AD carried out a ruthless attack against Dahir, the Brahmin ruler of the region. Some of the Indians who perhaps professed Buddhism and said to be Jats were dealt with discriminatory laws against them by the Brahmin ruler. They joined the invaders. A fierce fight between the two armies culminated in the defeat of the forces of Dahir. Loot, arson, murder and slaving of the defeated people followed.

    This invasion by the forces led by one of the cousins of the Khalifa left a very bitter memory in the minds of the people of India.

    The source of information is Chachnama which vividly describes the causes, events and results of this battle. English translation of some extracts of the Chachnamah have been included in Vol. I of the History of India as Told by its own Historians by Elliot and Dowson re-published By Luxumi Book Depot, Agra .

    Those who are interested to read full text of this battle in Chachnama can do so by reading its English Translation published a few years ago by Aligarh Muslim University where copy of original manuscript is also available.
    History is best when created, better when re-constructed and worst when invented.

  5. #184
    Quote Originally Posted by DrRajpalSingh View Post
    Mohd. bin Qasim, who invaded Sindh [India] in c.712 AD carried out a ruthless attack against Dahir, the Brahmin ruler of the region. Some of the Indians who perhaps professed Buddhism and said to be Jats were dealt with discriminatory laws against them by the Brahmin ruler. They joined the invaders. A fierce fight between the two armies culminated in the defeat of the forces of Dahir. Loot, arson, murder and slaving of the defeated people followed.The war prisoners were treated very severely as per terms of Islamic tradition which allowed choice either to accept Islam or death.

    This invasion by the forces led by one of the cousins of the Khalifa left a very bitter memory in the minds of the people of India.

    The source of information is Chachnama which vividly describes the causes, events and results of this battle. English translation of some extracts of the Chachnamah have been included in Vol. I of the History of India as Told by its own Historians by Elliot and Dowson re-published By Luxumi Book Depot, Agra .

    Those who are interested to read full text of this battle in Chachnama can do so by reading its English Translation published a few years ago by Aligarh Muslim University where copy of original manuscript is also available.

    Friend, first time in my life I heard that Jats joined the Muslim invaders. It may be mentioned in some history books, but doestn't sound true. It may be an attempt of some historians to divide Indian people.
    Some people think they are such a big master of the words that they can even make Bin Laden or Baghdadi a hero if they wish. So sad.
    Last edited by upendersingh; November 25th, 2014 at 07:36 PM.

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  7. #185
    Quote Originally Posted by DrRajpalSingh View Post

    Those who are interested to read full text of this battle in Chachnama can do so by reading its English Translation published a few years ago by Aligarh Muslim University where copy of original manuscript is also available.

    Dr. Singh

    A 7th CE original manuscript of the Chachnama???

    Perhaps you have made a Typo. These things do happen, Could you confirm?
    Last edited by ravichaudhary; November 26th, 2014 at 01:36 AM.

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  9. #186
    dubaar galti se likhi gayi

  10. #187
    Quote Originally Posted by ravichaudhary View Post
    Dr. Singh

    A 7th CE original manuscript of the Chachnama???

    Perhaps you have made a Typo. These things do happen, Could you confirm?
    Friend

    Kindly avoid committing mistake of considering Chachnamah as a book of prophesy. It is a narrative based on events that happened in Sindh in c. 712 AD i.e. in the beginning of the eighth century !

    I have nowhere mentioned the date of composition of Chachnamah as 7th CE as I have not been able to ascertain its date personally.

    Instead of assigning the probable date of its composition based on your imagination, Kindly find out the date by personally examining the MSS please.

    Thanks and regards,
    History is best when created, better when re-constructed and worst when invented.

  11. #188
    Quote Originally Posted by Romar View Post
    Aap ki baat satya prateet hoti hai. Dr Jhangu se yeh samajhna jaroori hai ki akbar dwara nimanlikhit karne ke bavjood bhi yahan ka koi shodh karta in baaton ka jikar kyon ni karta?



    The reimposition of jizya in 1575 is also symbolic of vigrous Islamic policy. -> Ali, M.A. (2006). Mughal India: Studies in Polity, Ideas, Society and Culture. Oxford University Press. ISBN 0195648609. p 159

    [/SUP]
    Friend,.

    Kindly stop derailing the smooth progress of the discussion which is designed to move forward chronologically step by step.

    Your questions will be dealt with when we reach 16th century discussion.

    If you have something to contribute on Mohd. bin Qasim invasion related aspects of history, you are welcome.

    Thanks
    History is best when created, better when re-constructed and worst when invented.

  12. #189
    Quote Originally Posted by upendersingh View Post
    Friend, first time in my life I heard that Jats joined the Muslim invaders. It may be mentioned in some history books, but doestn't sound true. It may be an attempt of some historians to divide Indian people.
    Some people think they are such a big master of the words that they can even make Bin Laden or Baghdadi a hero if they wish. So sad.
    As you will go deeper in the pages of history you will find more startling revelations of events of the past.

    We are discussing history not politics of the day so Kindly avoid putting irrelevant comments [ not related to the theme of the thread] as made in the last line of your post.
    History is best when created, better when re-constructed and worst when invented.

  13. #190
    Quote Originally Posted by DrRajpalSingh View Post
    Friend

    Kindly avoid committing mistake of considering Chachnamah as a book of prophesy. It is a narrative based on events that happened in Sindh in c. 712 AD i.e. in the beginning of the eighth century !

    I have nowhere mentioned the date of composition of Chachnamah as 7th CE as I have not been able to ascertain its date personally.

    Instead of assigning the probable date of its composition based on your imagination, Kindly find out the date by personally examining the MSS please.

    Thanks and regards,
    Ajeeb baat hai. Aapne likha hai upar: "Those who are interested to read full text of this battle in Chachnama can do so by reading its English Translation published a few years ago by Aligarh Muslim University where copy of original manuscript is also available."

    Ravi ne sirf aapse pucha ki kya 712 mein likhi gayi choonki yeh "original manuscript" hai. Is per yeh kah dena ki taarikh apne aap dekhiye ja kar ke atpati baat hai. Yeh to aap kahiya ki aap se galat likha gaya ki veh manuscript original hai.

  14. #191
    Quote Originally Posted by Romar View Post
    Ajeeb baat hai. Aapne likha hai upar: "Those who are interested to read full text of this battle in Chachnama can do so by reading its English Translation published a few years ago by Aligarh Muslim University where copy of original manuscript is also available."

    Ravi ne sirf aapse pucha ki kya 712 mein likhi gayi choonki yeh "original manuscript" hai. Is per yeh kah dena ki taarikh apne aap dekhiye ja kar ke atpati baat hai. Yeh to aap kahiya ki aap se galat likha gaya ki veh manuscript original hai.
    Fantastic indeed are your questions.

    Does 712 AD fall in 7th century.

    Or do I require to make you understand the difference between originally written in 712 AD and 'original MSS' regarding events of 712 AD.
    History is best when created, better when re-constructed and worst when invented.

  15. #192
    Quote Originally Posted by DrRajpalSingh View Post
    Fantastic indeed are your questions.

    Does 712 AD fall in 7th century.
    Yeh saaf tha ki aathvi shatabdi ke baare me ravi ka sawal tha.
    Quote Originally Posted by DrRajpalSingh View Post
    Or do I require to make you understand the difference between originally written in 712 AD and 'original MSS' regarding events of 712 AD.
    Aji original manuscript ki koi tarikh bhi to hogi ya original manuscript pichle saal likhi gayi thhi? Aap ka kathan aisa jata raha hai ki yeh "original" 712 AD ke ore dhore hi likhi gayi thhi.

  16. #193
    Quote Originally Posted by Romar View Post
    Yeh saaf tha ki aathvi shatabdi ke baare me ravi ka sawal tha.

    Aji original manuscript ki koi tarikh bhi to hogi ya original manuscript pichle saal likhi gayi thhi? Aap ka kathan aisa jata raha hai ki yeh "original" 712 AD ke ore dhore hi likhi gayi thhi.
    Put something constructive material on the very important event of our History, if you can; and, kindly Stop Proxy participation on anybody's behest .

    When you are not ready to understand, let Shri Ravi Chaudhary, who is an intelligent person and can understand the difference between the two situations easily, address his questions.

    Moreover none has authorised you to be his attorney here. Isn't it so !

    If you have any contribution to make to the event being discussed come forward otherwise kindly do not interfere with further flow of discussion please.

    Kindly cooperate in maintaining minimum restraint in posting unwarranted stuff as comments in future !
    Last edited by DrRajpalSingh; November 26th, 2014 at 12:28 PM.
    History is best when created, better when re-constructed and worst when invented.

  17. #194
    Quote Originally Posted by prashantacmet View Post
    Ok..so that proves that the all of these invaders mustered army at the name of religion quite easily and motivated them to invade kaafir for the sake of "Islam". It fulfilled two purposes "plundering the wealth" and "slaying kaafirs to spread terror of Islam" .... . Even if these invaders were not religious freak ,the army was religious freak and quite enthusiastic in plundering and slaying of the "kaafirs", Venomous Islam!

    So if plundering was the main purpose , religious purpose was also not far behind!
    As the frequency of invasions increased, one more cause of action may be added viz establishment of political authority over the lands thus conquered.
    History is best when created, better when re-constructed and worst when invented.

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  19. #195
    Quote Originally Posted by DrRajpalSingh View Post
    Fantastic indeed are your questions.

    Does 712 AD fall in 7th century.

    Or do I require to make you understand the difference between originally written in 712 AD and 'original MSS' regarding events of 712 AD.
    The Chach Nama was written by K*z* Ismá*l, who was appointed the first Káz* of Alór by Muhammad Kásim after the conquest of the Sindh. In 1216 AD, It was translated into Persian by Muhammad Ali bin Hamid bin Abu Bakr Kufi. which one is being considered original?
    Become more and more innocent, less knowledgeable and more childlike. Take life as fun - because that's precisely what it is!

  20. #196
    Jats were treated very badly in Sindh and perhaps they joined invaders against dahir:

    Restrictions on Jats by chach : Excerpt taken from English translation of persian work (1216)

    "Then Chach stayed in the fort of Brahmanabad and, for the sake of commerce and the safety of the people, he instituted an income. Then he called forth and humiliated the Jats of Lohana and punished their leader and imprisoned him. And imposed on them the conditions that they will never carry a sword, nor wear clothes of silk or spun cotton. Their upper covering may be sewn but their lower covering cannot be sewn and must be of black or red colour. They cannot put saddles on their horses. They must never cover their heads nor their feet. When they leave their houses, they must be accompanied by a dog. They will supply the governor’s kitchen with cooking wood. They will be employed as guides and spies. And they will cultivate such qualities, so that when an enemy approaches this fort, they will be able to defend it on their own honour"

    what daahir says about jats when he looks for marrying his sister :

    "Even though Ma’��n is our father’s daughter, she is a daughter of the J��ts who are
    by nature rebellious and criminal, especially their women. The reality is that,
    they can never be trusted, depended upon, or taken on their own words. This
    proverb on the J��ts is widely known: ‘Whoever grabbed the leg of a goat, got milk.
    Whoever grabbed the hand of a J��t woman, mounted her’. Since, M��’in
    is by nature a stranger, marrying her is not a sin"





    Become more and more innocent, less knowledgeable and more childlike. Take life as fun - because that's precisely what it is!

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  22. #197
    Kasim continued the same humiliation for jats :

    "
    Then he called the minister Si��ker and Mok�� and asked them: ‘What was the
    matter of J��ts with Chach and D��hir? And how was it conducted?’ Minister Si��ker
    replied: ‘During the rule of Chach, the J��ts of Lohana, that is those who lived
    in the area of Lakha and Samma, were prohibited from wearing soft clothes,
    from covering their heads, and of wearing rough, black, sheet on their torso.
    When they exited their homes, they were accompanied by dogs; by this, they
    could be identifi ed from afar. None of their elders could ride a horse. Whenever
    a king needed a guide, they were called upon to show the way. They indicated
    the pathways and guided travellers from one tribe to another. And when a leader
    among them rode a horse, that horse had no saddle or rein. However, he could
    put a cloth on the back of the horse. If anyone was hurt or killed during travel,
    it was from them that an investigation was made. And if someone from them
    was proven to be a thief, his family—including his wife and children—were
    burned. Caravans travelled by day and night, with them as guides. They do
    not respect their elders. They are barbaric, prone to rebellion and thievery on
    the roads. They were even in Daybul, raiding along with others. They are also
    responsible for bringing cooking wood to the kitchens of the kings.
    Said Muhammad bin Qasim: ‘How revolting are these people! They are like
    the jungle dwellers in the lands of Fars (Iran) and Kuh-paia (base of a mountain)
    who have the same ways’.
    Hence, Muhammad bin Qasim kept on them their existing laws. Just as during
    the times of Amir al-Mu’minin ‘Umar bin al-Kha������b had insisted that the
    inhabitants of Syria host any traveller for a night and given food, and if sick,
    for three nights"
    Become more and more innocent, less knowledgeable and more childlike. Take life as fun - because that's precisely what it is!

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  24. #198
    Quote Originally Posted by prashantacmet View Post
    The Chach Nama was written by K*z* Ismá*l, who was appointed the first Káz* of Alór by Muhammad Kásim after the conquest of the Sindh. In 1216 AD, It was translated into Persian by Muhammad Ali bin Hamid bin Abu Bakr Kufi. which one is being considered original?
    The first one !
    History is best when created, better when re-constructed and worst when invented.

  25. #199
    Quote Originally Posted by ravichaudhary View Post
    Dr. Singh

    A 7th CE original manuscript of the Chachnama???

    Perhaps you have made a Typo. These things do happen, Could you confirm?
    Shri Chaudhary,

    No mistake at all. For reply to your query read this post :

    Quote Originally Posted by prashantacmet View Post
    The Chach Nama was written by K*z* Ismá*l, who was appointed the first Káz* of Alór by Muhammad Kásim after the conquest of the Sindh. In 1216 AD, It was translated into Persian by Muhammad Ali bin Hamid bin Abu Bakr Kufi. which one is being considered original?
    The first one composed in early eighth century AD is original source and subsequent translations/transliterations are secondary sources.

    Perhaps this is enough to satisfy your inquisitiveness.

    Thanks
    History is best when created, better when re-constructed and worst when invented.

  26. #200
    Quote Originally Posted by DrRajpalSingh View Post
    Shri Chaudhary,

    No mistake at all. For reply to your query read this post :



    The first one composed in early eighth century AD is original source and subsequent translations/transliterations are secondary sources.

    Perhaps this is enough to satisfy your inquisitiveness.

    Thanks
    Dr Singh

    Are you seriously suggesting that the an original manuscript dated circa 700 AD or so exists????

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