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Thread: Foreign Invasions on India in Medieval Times - Causes, Events and their Impact

  1. #201
    Quote Originally Posted by ravichaudhary View Post
    Dr Singh

    Are you seriously suggesting that the an original manuscript dated circa 700 AD or so exists????
    Friend, I am suggesting a copy of Persian Chachnamah and its English translated and published in book form is available in Aligarh University Library. It is a translation of Arabic MSS named Fatahnama-i-Sind and is one source of information on the events connected with Kasim-Dahir battle fought in 712 AD.

    I have shared what I know on the issue, hence I will not be in a position to attend any further questions on the nature, origin, availability non availability, authenticity, non authenticity and so on regarding Fatehnama/Chachanama.

    Yes, you are welcome to contribute and share your views on the battle of Brahmanabad between Kasim and Dahir in 712 AD!

    Thanks and regards
    History is best when created, better when re-constructed and worst when invented.

  2. #202
    Quote Originally Posted by DrRajpalSingh View Post
    As the frequency of invasions increased, one more cause of action may be added viz establishment of political authority over the lands thus conquered.
    Dharam badhana jyada sahi kaaran tha na ki jo aap likh rahein hain:
    In Muhammad bin Qasim’s first successful foray into India, as recorded by al-Biladuri and Muhammad al-Kufi (in Chachnama): at Debal, ‘the temples were demolished, a general massacre endured for three days; prisoners were taken captive;’ at Nairun, ‘the idols were broken, and mosques founded despite its voluntary surrender;’ at Rawar and Askalanda, ‘all the men in arms were put to the sword, and the women and children carried away captive;’ at Multan, ‘all men capable of bearing arms were massacred; six thousand ministers of the temple were made captive, besides all the women and children. -> Eliot HM and Dawson J, The History of India As Told by the Historians, Low Price Publications, New Delhi, Vol. I, p. 469

    Muhammad bin Qasim’s invasion: Inspired by the edicts of the Quran and Sunnah (as noted already), Hajjaj sent Qasim with a 6,000-strong army toward India, instructing him to kill all able-bodied men and to enslave the women and children in the course of his conquests. After capturing Debal in Sindh, Qasim’s army massacred the residents for three days. In Brahmanabad, between 6,000 and 16,000 men of weapon-bearing age were slaughtered; in Multan, all men of weapon- bearing age were ordered to be killed. Chachnama records that Qasim’s successful assault in Rawar yielded 60,000 slaves.v Qasim slaughtered tens of thousands of Indian defenders and enslaved their women and children on a grand scale, a few hundred thousand in all, during his three-year stint in Sindh. In addition, temples were demolished, sculptures and idols shattered, and mosques built in their stead. Plundering of Hindu establishments, temples and palaces yielded great quantities of booty.

    Chachnama records that Qasim’s assault on Rawar yielded 60,000 slaves. In the final stages of his conquest of Sindh, says Chachnama, about 100,000 women and children were enslaved.-> Lal (1994), p. 18–19

    At Debal, Muhammad bin Qasim slaughtered the inhabitants for three days. Was this massacre perpetrated because the Hindus had welcomed Qasim’s army with opened hands? -> Islamic Jihad a legacy of forced conversion MA Khan p. 88

    He always forwarded one-fifth of the captives and other spoils—the share of the state, according to the Quran [8:41], prophetic traditions and Sharia—to the caliph in Damascus and distributed the rest amongst his soldiers. These slave women and children became the property of Muslims and entered the house of Islam by default. When those children grew up to be adult Muslims in a few years, the males were drafted into the Muslim army for waging new holy wars against the Hindus, who had been their kinfolk and coreligionists a few years earlier. In other words, in the short time-span of a decade, these captured children had become the weapon for the Muslim state to wage new Jihad expeditions for extending the domain of Islam, for converting the vanquished infidels, for enslaving their women and children, and for plundering their wealth. Even during the upheaval of the Partition of India (1946–47), some 100,000 Hindu and Sikh women were enslaved, carried away and married off to Muslims -> Islamic Jihad a legacy of forced conversion MA Khan p. 102

    But after Muslim invaders brought the sword of Islam to India in three waves: first in early eighth century by Muhammad bin Qasim, then in the early eleventh century by Sultan Mahmud and finally in the late twelfth century by Sultan Ghauri, the Muslim population grew in leaps and bounds through large-scale conversion of native Indians in the face of brutal Muslim assaults, through their enslavement en masse and other forms of coercion. -> Islamic Jihad a legacy of forced conversion MA Khan p. 145

    Qasim had enslaved approximately 300,000 Indian infidels in three years. Similarly, Musa (698–712) had enslaved 300,000 Blacks and Berbers in North Africa.
    Sawal yeh hai ki kya kaaran hai ki duniya bhar me log sach ko sach nahi keh rahe?

  3. #203
    Romar ji, I think that Rajpal ji now agrees with the opinion that "spreading Islam" was also a primary cause for these invaders along with "loot of wealth". am I right rajpal ji?
    Last edited by prashantacmet; November 27th, 2014 at 10:54 AM.
    Become more and more innocent, less knowledgeable and more childlike. Take life as fun - because that's precisely what it is!

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  5. #204
    Quote Originally Posted by Romar View Post
    Dharam badhana jyada sahi kaaran tha na ki jo aap likh rahein hain:

    Sawal yeh hai ki kya kaaran hai ki duniya bhar me log sach ko sach nahi keh rahe?
    If you had read these two earlier posts, you would not have taken the trouble of preaching the gospel of truth and truth alone !
    [QUOTE=prashantacmet;371799]Ok..so that proves that the all of these invaders mustered army at the name of religion quite easily and motivated them to invade kaafir for the sake of "Islam". It fulfilled two purposes "plundering the wealth" and "slaying kaafirs to spread terror of Islam" .... . Even if these invaders were not religious freak ,the army was religious freak and quite enthusiastic in plundering and slaying of the "kaafirs", Venomous Islam!

    So if plundering was the main purpose , religious purpose was also not far behind![/QUOTE]

    Quote Originally Posted by DrRajpalSingh View Post
    As the frequency of invasions increased, one more cause of action may be added viz establishment of political authority over the lands thus conquered.


    Moreover, without forming judicious view based on all aspects of the invasions and their causes and impact, you seem to be in hurry to sweep the historic developments of many hundreds of years under one post. Otherwise what the quote on the time of Partition of India are to do with the discussion on History of Medieval India.

    Kindly move step by step to discuss every issue at different stages of history and as requested earlier resist your zeal to prove your one sided view in one go. This type of hyper hurry is not good for an healthy discussion.
    Could you share with us what this remark of yours has to do with the present discussion:

    ''
    Sawal yeh hai ki kya kaaran hai ki duniya bhar me log sach ko sach nahi keh rahe?''

    Do you consider all people on the earth as worthless as you have imputed them in this post !!!


    Hope that you would cooperate by sharing your views in matter of fact way and not try to derail the discussion in future by raising irrelevant blockades and also behave as a gentleman [as you are] while posting your views about living men across the globe !
    History is best when created, better when re-constructed and worst when invented.

  6. #205
    Quote Originally Posted by prashantacmet View Post
    Romar ji, I think that Rajpal ji now agrees with the opinion that "spreading Islam" was also a primary cause for these invaders along with "loot of wealth". am I right rajpal ji?
    Friend,

    Good question.

    We have just started discussion regarding one invasion where all the three causes viz plunder, religious intolerance and establishment of authority over the conquered territories have emerged !

    As we move forward to take up other invasions for study the primary or secondary causes would gradually unfold, and hope that there would be a bit of difference in each and every invaders' motives for undertaking these attacks on India.


    So far as next major invasion on India by M. Ghazhnavi is concerned, his primary aim emerges as loot of Indian wealth followed by killing the Indians who resisted his attempt and despoiling their religious places as well. Though he had run over deep in North Western Indian territories, he just annexed parts of Punjab to his kingdom. Thus loot of Indian wealth in ill defended temples became his passion to descend upon them year after year.

    Yes his last attack was exception to this pattern. He during this campaign attacked those Jats, who had taken away part of his booty gathered from famous Somnath temple.

    Thanks
    Last edited by DrRajpalSingh; November 27th, 2014 at 01:55 PM.
    History is best when created, better when re-constructed and worst when invented.

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  8. #206
    Quote Originally Posted by DrRajpalSingh View Post
    Friend, I am suggesting a copy of Persian Chachnamah and its English translated and published in book form is available in Aligarh University Library. It is a translation of Arabic MSS named Fatahnama-i-Sind and is one source of information on the events connected with Kasim-Dahir battle fought in 712 AD.

    I have shared what I know on the issue, hence I will not be in a position to attend any further questions on the nature, origin, availability non availability, authenticity, non authenticity and so on regarding Fatehnama/Chachanama.

    Yes, you are welcome to contribute and share your views on the battle of Brahmanabad between Kasim and Dahir in 712 AD!

    Thanks and regards


    Humble request.

    Please do not confuse the issue.

    You claimed that the Original Manuscript of the Chachnama dated circa 8th century was in Aligarh University .

    Either it existed or did not.

    Some accuracy must be there.

    There is nothing wrong with making mistakes.

    It is acknowledging them that is exemplary.

  9. #207
    Quote Originally Posted by DrRajpalSingh View Post
    Friend, I am suggesting a copy of Persian Chachnamah and its English translated and published in book form is available in Aligarh University Library. It is a translation of Arabic MSS named Fatahnama-i-Sind and is one source of information on the events connected with Kasim-Dahir battle fought in 712 AD.

    Yes, you are welcome to contribute and share your views on the battle of Brahmanabad between Kasim and Dahir in 712 AD!

    Thanks and regards
    Who says the battle even occurred?

    Do you have a source, better than the 13 th century composition of the story by Kufi ( Kufi composed his version circa 1216 CE).

  10. #208
    To all participants,

    I have suggested before, that we should contain our anxiety to launch into 'opinions' based on biased secondary sources, we should seek primary sources.

    Importantly, we should validate the authenticity of what we come across and not accept it at face value.

    The purpose of the History Section on this site, was to find, and develop a history of the Jats.

    We are not going to that, when we accept at face value what the average run of the mill historian writes.

    [ I may clarify , that this comment is not directed at Dr. Rajpal Singh. He is the only Jat professional Historian on this site and one of the few who has the courage to participate here and take criticism of his opinions in his stride. He too is requested to take a break and go back to research to determine the authenticity of the sources.

    He has the skills and resources to do that.

    No point his joining the horde of those who just quote each other and claim it is Ithiihaas]



    Readers will find that Kufi's tale is based on a claim he came across a descendant of Ismail or someone ( who claimed to have a copy of the Chachnama in Arabic,in Afghanistan, handed down in his family generation to generation, some 600 years after the alleged events in his version of the Chachnama fairytale).

    We are supposed to believe this story and make it the foundation of our History and culture ?

    Today we cannt even take with trust what we read about what happened one week ago ago let alone 600 years ago.

    Why historians accept such a fairly tale and give it legitimacy, is another matter.



    Where is the scientific, critical evaluation of this 13 the century document.

    Why do we accept it as true, when there is no corroborating evidence.?

    Perhaps readers may be better advised to deal with the authenticity issue first, before rushing off to show off their knowledge and score points!

    Jat history in Islamic sources is to be found in the absence of their mention, or where they are mentioned in a derogatory manner.

    The Jats put up the resistance and were abused roundly in Islamic sources.

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  12. #209
    To all participants,

    I have suggested before, that we should contain our anxiety to launch into 'opinions' based on biased secondary sources, we should seek primary sources.

    Importantly, we should validate the authenticity of what we come across and not accept it at face value.

    The purpose of the History Section on this site, was to find, and develop a history of the Jats.

    We are not going to that, when we accept at face value what the average run of the mill historian writes.

    [ I may clarify , that this comment is not directed at Dr. Rajpal Singh. He is the only Jat professional Historian on this site and one of the few who has the courage to participate here and take criticism of his opinions in his stride. He too is requested to take a break and go back to research to determine the authenticity of the sources.

    He has the skills and resources to do that.

    No point his joining the horde of those who just quote each other and claim it is Ithiihaas]



    Readers will find that Kufi's tale is based on a claim - he came across a descendant of Ismail or someone ( who claimed to have a copy of the Chachnama in Arabic,in Afghanistan, handed down in his family generation to generation, some 600 years after the alleged events in his version of the Chachnama fairytale).

    We are supposed to believe this story and make it the foundation of our History and culture ?

    Today we cannot even take with trust, what we read about what happened one week ago let alone 600 or 1,600 years ago.

    Why do historians accept such a fairly tale and give it legitimacy?



    Where is the scientific, critical evaluation of this 13th century composition

    Why do we accept it as true, when there is no corroborating evidence.?

    Perhaps readers may be better advised to deal with the authenticity issue first, before rushing off to show off their knowledge and score points!

    Jat history in Islamic sources is to be found in the absence of their mention, or where they are mentioned in a derogatory manner.

    The Jats put up the resistance and were abused roundly in Islamic sources.
    Last edited by ravichaudhary; November 28th, 2014 at 05:20 AM. Reason: m

  13. #210
    Quote Originally Posted by ravichaudhary View Post
    Humble request.

    Please do not confuse the issue.

    You claimed that the Original Manuscript of the Chachnama dated circa 8th century was in Aligarh University .

    Either it existed or did not.

    Some accuracy must be there.

    There is nothing wrong with making mistakes.

    It is acknowledging them that is exemplary.
    Friend,

    The issue may be closed on the point that we agree to disagree what I said and what you understood as per the discussion on the issue contained in our previous posts reveals !

    Thanks and regards,
    Last edited by DrRajpalSingh; November 28th, 2014 at 10:23 AM.
    History is best when created, better when re-constructed and worst when invented.

  14. #211
    Quote Originally Posted by ravichaudhary View Post
    Who says the battle even occurred?

    Do you have a source, better than the 13 th century composition of the story by Kufi ( Kufi composed his version circa 1216 CE).
    Friend,

    Chachnama [Persian MSS 1216 ] originally based on some earlier [contemporary Arabic sources] and translated into English [and published from Tehran, Pakistan, and of course latest translation into English from AMU Aligarh ] says that the battle occurred in 712 AD.

    Conversely the question may be framed : who can prove that Mohd. bin Qasim never led Invasion on Sindh in c.712 AD?

    In the absence of no source, tradition based sources are used to elicit historic developments, The Chachnamah seems to fall in that category and has been used intensively as a source to throw light on the issue. So long as other more authentic sources refute or contradict its narrative, it is used to illustrate the events of those days by the historians.

    If someone comes up with newer source on the topic of discussion, we are open to revise our tentative surmises/conclusions which are of course based on accessible and available sources to us.

    But to close the issue/discussion without providing alternate source of information is neither desirable nor acceptable at the present state of our knowledge of that period !

    Thanks and wishing better participation/contribution in discussion on the issue.
    History is best when created, better when re-constructed and worst when invented.

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  16. #212
    Quote Originally Posted by ravichaudhary View Post
    To all participants,

    .........................................

    [ I may clarify , that this comment is not directed at Dr. Rajpal Singh. He is the only Jat professional Historian on this site and one of the few who has the courage to participate here and take criticism of his opinions in his stride. He too is requested to take a break and go back to research to determine the authenticity of the sources.

    He has the skills and resources to do that.

    No point his joining the horde of those who just quote each other and claim it is Ithiihaas]

    ...................................
    Friend,

    Kindly suggest which original source or rather to say other source than Chachnama you are suggesting for judgement or critical evaluation.

    I assure you, Friend, I will try, to the best of my ability, to evaluate/appraise the newer source of information on this topic as and when shared/suggested by you.

    Nonetheless, thanks for your unsolicited piece of advice to me to take break!

    Best wishes,
    Last edited by DrRajpalSingh; November 28th, 2014 at 10:40 AM.
    History is best when created, better when re-constructed and worst when invented.

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  18. #213
    Quote Originally Posted by Romar View Post
    Dharam badhana jyada sahi kaaran tha na ki jo aap likh rahein hain:

    Sawal yeh hai ki kya kaaran hai ki duniya bhar me log sach ko sach nahi keh rahe?
    Copy paste is challenged by many a hon'ble participants and also that use of other persons research without acknowledgement of the source of such matter is an offence under the intellectual property right ! Kindly acknowledge the source of the post so as to be on safe side of any future complication, please:



    ''In Muhammad bin Qasim’s first successful foray into India, as recorded by al-Biladuri and Muhammad al-Kufi (in Chachnama): at Debal, ‘the temples were demolished, a general massacre endured for three days; prisoners were taken captive;’ at Nairun, ‘the idols were broken, and mosques founded despite its voluntary surrender;’ at Rawar and Askalanda, ‘all the men in arms were put to the sword, and the women and children carried away captive;’ at Multan, ‘all men capable of bearing arms were massacred; six thousand ministers of the temple were made captive, besides all the women and children. -> Eliot HM and Dawson J, The History of India As Told by the Historians, Low Price Publications, New Delhi, Vol. I, p. 469

    Muhammad bin Qasim’s invasion: Inspired by the edicts of the Quran and Sunnah (as noted already), Hajjaj sent Qasim with a 6,000-strong army toward India, instructing him to kill all able-bodied men and to enslave the women and children in the course of his conquests. After capturing Debal in Sindh, Qasim’s army massacred the residents for three days. In Brahmanabad, between 6,000 and 16,000 men of weapon-bearing age were slaughtered; in Multan, all men of weapon- bearing age were ordered to be killed. Chachnama records that Qasim’s successful assault in Rawar yielded 60,000 slaves.v Qasim slaughtered tens of thousands of Indian defenders and enslaved their women and children on a grand scale, a few hundred thousand in all, during his three-year stint in Sindh. In addition, temples were demolished, sculptures and idols shattered, and mosques built in their stead. Plundering of Hindu establishments, temples and palaces yielded great quantities of booty.

    Chachnama records that Qasim’s assault on Rawar yielded 60,000 slaves. In the final stages of his conquest of Sindh, says Chachnama, about 100,000 women and children were enslaved.-> Lal (1994), p. 18–19

    At Debal, Muhammad bin Qasim slaughtered the inhabitants for three days. Was this massacre perpetrated because the Hindus had welcomed Qasim’s army with opened hands? -> Islamic Jihad a legacy of forced conversion MA Khan p. 88

    He always forwarded one-fifth of the captives and other spoils—the share of the state, according to the Quran [8:41], prophetic traditions and Sharia—to the caliph in Damascus and distributed the rest amongst his soldiers. These slave women and children became the property of Muslims and entered the house of Islam by default. When those children grew up to be adult Muslims in a few years, the males were drafted into the Muslim army for waging new holy wars against the Hindus, who had been their kinfolk and coreligionists a few years earlier. In other words, in the short time-span of a decade, these captured children had become the weapon for the Muslim state to wage new Jihad expeditions for extending the domain of Islam, for converting the vanquished infidels, for enslaving their women and children, and for plundering their wealth. Even during the upheaval of the Partition of India (1946–47), some 100,000 Hindu and Sikh women were enslaved, carried away and married off to Muslims -> Islamic Jihad a legacy of forced conversion MA Khan p. 102

    But after Muslim invaders brought the sword of Islam to India in three waves: first in early eighth century by Muhammad bin Qasim, then in the early eleventh century by Sultan Mahmud and finally in the late twelfth century by Sultan Ghauri, the Muslim population grew in leaps and bounds through large-scale conversion of native Indians in the face of brutal Muslim assaults, through their enslavement en masse and other forms of coercion. -> Islamic Jihad a legacy of forced conversion MA Khan p. 145

    Qasim had enslaved approximately 300,000 Indian infidels in three years. Similarly, Musa (698–712) had enslaved 300,000 Blacks and Berbers in North Africa.''

    Hope to hear soon !

    Last edited by DrRajpalSingh; November 28th, 2014 at 10:55 AM.
    History is best when created, better when re-constructed and worst when invented.

  19. #214
    Quote Originally Posted by ravichaudhary View Post
    To all participants,

    I have suggested before, that we should contain our anxiety to launch into 'opinions' based on biased secondary sources, we should seek primary sources.

    Importantly, we should validate the authenticity of what we come across and not accept it at face value.

    The purpose of the History Section on this site, was to find, and develop a history of the Jats.

    We are not going to that, when we accept at face value what the average run of the mill historian writes.

    [ I may clarify , that this comment is not directed at Dr. Rajpal Singh. He is the only Jat professional Historian on this site and one of the few who has the courage to participate here and take criticism of his opinions in his stride. He too is requested to take a break and go back to research to determine the authenticity of the sources.

    He has the skills and resources to do that.

    No point his joining the horde of those who just quote each other and claim it is Ithiihaas]



    Readers will find that Kufi's tale is based on a claim he came across a descendant of Ismail or someone ( who claimed to have a copy of the Chachnama in Arabic,in Afghanistan, handed down in his family generation to generation, some 600 years after the alleged events in his version of the Chachnama fairytale).

    We are supposed to believe this story and make it the foundation of our History and culture ?

    Today we cannt even take with trust what we read about what happened one week ago ago let alone 600 years ago.

    Why historians accept such a fairly tale and give it legitimacy, is another matter.



    Where is the scientific, critical evaluation of this 13 the century document.

    Why do we accept it as true, when there is no corroborating evidence.?

    Perhaps readers may be better advised to deal with the authenticity issue first, before rushing off to show off their knowledge and score points!

    Jat history in Islamic sources is to be found in the absence of their mention, or where they are mentioned in a derogatory manner.

    The Jats put up the resistance and were abused roundly in Islamic sources.
    Agreed!...

    infact, this is the proper way to reconstruct the history.....question each and every source!! don't be in a hurry to set a particular opinion in your mind..

    Anyway, we need to figure the position and role of jats in "Sindh" of that time! Please provide your view.

    was sahasi rai a jat?

    there were any jat kingdoms in Sindh at all? balhara , ruler of kaikan?

    social and political status of jats of that time?

    wife of chach was a jat?
    Become more and more innocent, less knowledgeable and more childlike. Take life as fun - because that's precisely what it is!

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  21. #215
    I found this from Internet. This guy quote chachnama and claims for big political and social power of jats in ancient Sindh before chach. Brahmins were much lower in the status in jats eyes. It were muslim sources and chach which degraded jats in their writings, and chach put derogatory restrictions on jats.



    Not only sahasi but Akham Lohana ruler of Brahmanabad and Matta ruler of sivistan(Now Eastern Balochistan) were also Jats .

    Akham was leader of lohana Samma and Sohotta jatt tribes and jats because of their birth decent thought them superior to any body else and particularly brahmans that has been admitted by Chach himself to wrote a letter in that regard...Quote Chachnama.....
    Chach sends a letter to Akham Lohána.

    Rá* Chach sent a letter to Akham Lohána, saying, "You from your
    power, and pomp, and family descent, consider yourself the ruler of the time. Although this kingdom and sovereignty, wealth, riches,
    dignity, and power have not descended to me by inheritance, yet these distinguished favours and this exalted position have been given to me by God. It was not by my army that I gained them;"

    Here it is shown as far as family decent was concerned Akham Jatt was
    treated much superior than Brahman chach."


    I will give proofs regarding jatt decent of Akham lohana.
    However I will try to clear certain other controversial points.
    I feel Sahasi was a name of son of sahiras not a title .

    Sahasi rai rulers had shahi clan ,I don't know about morya connection.
    Though kabul kings were jats termed brahmans but Chach was certainly a brahman not any othercast as he along with his father used to live in a temple where his father was a priest and lead a poor life so no confusion regarding that .
    Become more and more innocent, less knowledgeable and more childlike. Take life as fun - because that's precisely what it is!

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  23. #216
    Quote Originally Posted by prashantacmet View Post
    I found this from Internet. This guy quote chachnama and claims for big political and social power of jats in ancient Sindh before chach. Brahmins were much lower in the status in jats eyes. It were muslim sources and chach which degraded jats in their writings, and chach put derogatory restrictions on jats.



    Not only sahasi but Akham Lohana ruler of Brahmanabad and Matta ruler of sivistan(Now Eastern Balochistan) were also Jats .

    Akham was leader of lohana Samma and Sohotta jatt tribes and jats because of their birth decent thought them superior to any body else and particularly brahmans that has been admitted by Chach himself to wrote a letter in that regard...Quote Chachnama.....
    Chach sends a letter to Akham Lohána.

    Rá* Chach sent a letter to Akham Lohána, saying, "You from your
    power, and pomp, and family descent, consider yourself the ruler of the time. Although this kingdom and sovereignty, wealth, riches,
    dignity, and power have not descended to me by inheritance, yet these distinguished favours and this exalted position have been given to me by God. It was not by my army that I gained them;"

    Here it is shown as far as family decent was concerned Akham Jatt was
    treated much superior than Brahman chach."


    I will give proofs regarding jatt decent of Akham lohana.
    However I will try to clear certain other controversial points.
    I feel Sahasi was a name of son of sahiras not a title .

    Sahasi rai rulers had shahi clan ,I don't know about morya connection.
    Though kabul kings were jats termed brahmans but Chach was certainly a brahman not any othercast as he along with his father used to live in a temple where his father was a priest and lead a poor life so no confusion regarding that .
    Friend,

    The new administration set up by Mohd, bin Qasim continued to follow the harsh treatment meted out to Jats, the practice which had been initiated by Chach and his successor Dahir.

    Jats not only played important role in history of Sindh but also in the history of Iraq, Iran and other Arab countries for a long time. There are numerous references about the Jats of Sindh and their migration to those countries in Arabic and Persian sources. A lot of research has already been done on this issue.

    In a National Seminar some years ago [which I had privilege to attend] almost half a dozen papers relating to the Jats in Sindh starting from the first century AD to almost advent of 11th century were presented by many eminent historians. They also contained references to the power centres of the Jats and their migration to Western Asia/Iran and Arab Countries and their very significant role before the advent of Islam there and even after the emergence of Islam there,

    I will try to find out those papers and then share the same with all of you in the form of posts.

    Thanks
    Last edited by DrRajpalSingh; November 28th, 2014 at 04:56 PM.
    History is best when created, better when re-constructed and worst when invented.

  24. #217
    Quote Originally Posted by prashantacmet View Post
    Agreed!...
    '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''' '''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''''
    wife of chach was a jat?
    Friend,

    If we rely upon the statement of Dahir quoted in Chachnama, she was a Jat and mother of a daughter born due to this union.

    Raja Dahir married his cousin saying that though she was his sister from paternal side yet not his sister from the maternal side.

    His vulgar statement on the Jats on this issue is there to show that one of the wives of Chach was a Jat !

    Thanks and best wishes,
    History is best when created, better when re-constructed and worst when invented.

  25. #218
    Quote Originally Posted by ravichaudhary View Post
    To all participants,

    ................................
    Today we cannot even take with trust, what we read about what happened one week ago let alone 600 or 1,600 years ago.

    Why do historians accept such a fairly tale and give it legitimacy?

    Where is the scientific, critical evaluation of this 13th century composition

    Why do we accept it as true, when there is no corroborating evidence.?

    Perhaps readers may be better advised to deal with the authenticity issue first, before rushing off to show off their knowledge and score points!

    Jat history in Islamic sources is to be found in the absence of their mention, or where they are mentioned in a derogatory manner.

    The Jats put up the resistance and were abused roundly in Islamic sources.
    When you accept this as 'fairly tale'' then what is wrong in accepting this as authentic.

    We are hearing for the first time about : Islamic Sources !!! What they are, could you explain.

    Further your prejudice pours out when you say that the Jat 'are mentioned in a derogatory manner' in them.

    Again contrary to your advice to us, you indulge in show off your knowledge and score points by issuing statement that : The Jats put up the resistance were abused roundly in Islamic sources.

    This type of hyperbolic conclusion cannot stand the scrutiny of historical developments across the globe where Jats resided/reside !

    This post shows your lack of knowledge of historical research methodology and terminology used in classification of research data/sources !

    Kindly devote some time to read some good books on research methodology, formulate objective views and then jump to advise others to follow your methodology of research in History.

    Thanks and best wishes
    History is best when created, better when re-constructed and worst when invented.

  26. #219
    Quote Originally Posted by DrRajpalSingh View Post
    Friend,

    If we rely upon the statement of Dahir quoted in Chachnama, she was a Jat and mother of a daughter born due to this union.

    Raja Dahir married his cousin saying that though she was his sister from paternal side yet not his sister from the maternal side.

    His vulgar statement on the Jats on this issue is there to show that one of the wives of Chach was a Jat !

    Thanks and best wishes,
    as per my information , mother of daahir is rani suhandi (former queen of rai sahsi) so chach had two wives , one rani suhandi and second a jat? who was that jat step-mother? if any info, plz share
    Become more and more innocent, less knowledgeable and more childlike. Take life as fun - because that's precisely what it is!

  27. #220
    Quote Originally Posted by prashantacmet View Post
    as per my information , mother of daahir is rani suhandi (former queen of rai sahsi) so chach had two wives , one rani suhandi and second a jat? who was that jat step-mother? if any info, plz share
    Thanks friend for the very important question raised. After consulting the original text[my book is with some researcher who is not here at present] , I shall turn to this question again.
    History is best when created, better when re-constructed and worst when invented.

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