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Thread: Foreign Invasions on India in Medieval Times - Causes, Events and their Impact

  1. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by DrRajpalSingh View Post
    You are juxtaposing heterogeneous incidents/events that spread over thousands of years to show as if hands of every Muslim and Hindu were always at one another's throat and they had nothing to do but butcher people. They were not at all times doing so. Yes isolated cases of imposition of Jezia on Hindus and destruction of several temples by over zealot rulers/aggressors are the historical facts which cannot be denied.
    Sir, this is exactly rhetorical. You rightly point out that these are facts which cannot be denied - because there is overwhelming evidence to support them, otherwise you would happily deny it, I feel. The wording used by you, viz. "heterogeneous incidents/events that spread over thousands of years" is in itself a conclusive proof that these were not isolated incidents, but were concerted efforts of Muslims (often) not linked by bonds of kinship and/or even continuity in time but by their religion - which makes it even more serious threat and increases its severity manyfold - to subdue and subjugate Hindus, and everybody else on this planet.

    What this means is that forces of Islam can wait for considerable amount of time, before their adversary gets soft, relaxed and reluctant to drive them out, and then another bunch of people (totally unrelated, probably related only by religion may be), carry on the agenda left unfinished by their predecessors in the past. Of course all this resonates with what is written in their religious texts, and tallies with times and actions of no less but Muhammad himself.


    Quote Originally Posted by DrRajpalSingh View Post
    During aggression and warfare millions of people were butchered on either side ever since the 'State' emerged on the scene as is amply testified by the battle of Mahabharata and Battle of Kalinga also.
    Clearly, neither during Mahabharata, nor in Kalinga war there was any religious connotation to any of the events. So the comparison stops there! And Sir, which two sides are you refering to by the word both? Clearly there were no two sides, Muslims invaded and destroyed Hindu lives, property and temples. Please give me instances where Hindus went to Muslim countries to cause destruction. If fighting for one's own life is called "butchering others" - than I very much lose faith in such an intellect being capable of doing impartial and just review of history.


    Quote Originally Posted by DrRajpalSingh View Post
    The Turk invaders came on scene at a late stage and had more lethal armament with them so ferocity of participants increased and so did causalities. Later in Sixteenth century use of gun powder further added to the killing power of armies engaged in warfare.
    Sir, you are taking apologetics to a new level. Next thing you will say is that it is the gun that murdered and should be hanged instead of the accused.


    Quote Originally Posted by DrRajpalSingh View Post
    In peace times, by and large common people whether HIndu or Muslim all lived amicably and stood by one another in the hour of need. But elite ruling class definitely had their separate world where they lived life of unimaginable comforts and luxury ! So love hate relations could easily be imagined in those days between have nots and haves irrespective of their religious beliefs.

    The wrongs of history done by a few cannot be righted by us today. So we must not give undue importance to those who committed excesses and were doomed to fail in making any lasting impression on the social and political fabric of the people of Hindustan/Bharatvarsa.
    Sir, all this is rhetorical in nature. You have your own world view (read communist world view) and you imagine the world to be according to that, I can see you using the words "could easily be imagined". But what is easily imaginable in your mind, is not so easily imaginable in the minds of other sceptical and not so fertile readers of history. I for one cannot imagine, that Hindus, whose land, property, and valuables have been looted + whose daughters, sisters, and mothers have been defiled, and often enslaved and sent to Arabia + whose religious places have been desecrated, idols and icons destroyed and placed on stepping stones of mosques so that they can be trod upon, etc. would line up to live "amicably" and stand by with Muslims "in the hour of need." To my imaginative mind all the above that you have said seems like a fantasy world with an absolute disconnect with the real world. Indeed I can quote what al-Baruni said regarding feelings of Hindus about their Muslim "brothers".

    Please get out of your utopian socialist world, and try to live in reality, and stop being an armchair historian. There is a class of people, who sing praises of the same person who holds them by the scruff of their necks, and has a knife on their throats. I frankly think such people can never be reformed, and can never be brought out of their 10-by-10 studio apartments where everything is great and hunky-dory. Wasting time over such people, if I may say so, trying to convince them is hardly productive use of one's time. Instead society at large should be told the truth, and must be alarmed against dangers of Islam.

    Muslims are a bane to society not only in India, but world over. No continent (except for may be Antarctica) has been left where they haven't left their terror trail and indelible mark on local civilization. They are hated everywhere - in every country where they are not a majority. Jihad and uncontrolled child birth to increase their population are two hallmarks of Muslims - and both are a threat to every other peaceloving community on this planet.

    So nobody is trying to right a wrong done in history, they are clearly a very real and existential threat to the very existence of Hindustan/Bharatvarsa as a diverse, liberal Hindu nation of multiple faiths, and indeed to the whole wide world.

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  3. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by vk23 View Post
    Yeah, terrorists have no religion. They just use religion as a tool to manipulate things.
    Why don't the "terrorists" use Hinduism and Hindus, for example, as a tool to manipulate things?
    Last edited by sahij; November 10th, 2014 at 01:46 PM.

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  5. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by DrRajpalSingh View Post
    Friend,

    You are juxtaposing heterogeneous incidents/events that spread over thousands of years to show as if hands of every Muslim and Hindu were always at one another's throat and they had nothing to do but butcher people. They were not at all times doing so. Yes isolated cases of imposition of Jezia on Hindus and destruction of several temples by over zealot rulers/aggressors are the historical facts which cannot be denied.

    During aggression and warfare millions of people were butchered on either side ever since the 'State' emerged on the scene as is amply testified by the battle of Mahabharata and Battle of Kalinga also.

    The Turk invaders came on scene at a late stage and had more lethal armament with them so ferocity of participants increased and so did causalities. Later in Sixteenth century use of gun powder further added to the killing power of armies engaged in warfare.

    But sordid thing during these battle times against the Turks, Afghans or Mughals was that after the battle was over, in many cases the war prisoners were given a tough choice either to accept Islam or face death.

    In peace times, by and large common people whether HIndu or Muslim all lived amicably and stood by one another in the hour of need. But elite ruling class definitely had their separate world where they lived life of unimaginable comforts and luxury ! So love hate relations could easily be imagined in those days between have nots and haves irrespective of their religious beliefs.

    The wrongs of history done by a few cannot be righted by us today. So we must not give undue importance to those who committed excesses and were doomed to fail in making any lasting impression on the social and political fabric of the people of Hindustan/Bharatvarsa.
    Islam is a religion of peace & it's followers were/are peace loving human beings who respects others faith and live in harmony with them across world. They are the front runners of social harmony in past & present everywhere ? Right, Mr. Rajpal.

    History is history it is never an emotional appeal. It should be discussed and taught as it happened. Kalinga ho ya Karbala. Don't mix it with your feelings.

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  7. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by RathiJi View Post
    Yes, I agree. Can you tell me same happening in any other religion at this scale ? Where religious texts are being used to behead people, flog woman, shot, bomb innocents. Tell me the religion where today women are sold as a commodity in market ? Please also enlighten me the number of religious countries ( non-islamic ) persecute minorities on name of blasphemy. Why RDX was found in Bardhman Madarsa ? not in a Church, temple or Gurudwara.

    The violence is everywhere at some scale in this world sometimes individual sometimes as a organized crime. Reasons are many race, political, personal gains, money, resources, power, drugs and the RELIGION.

    THIS IS RELIGIOUS TERRORISM at its peak. May I write down the name of religion ?

    I never said that all muslims are bad , but those who follow 7th century warlords and treat them as ideal are worst. There is some problem with the religion not the people.

    Why don't the "terrorists" use Hinduism and Hindus, for example, as a tool to manipulate things?
    My friend extremism can be anywhere in any shape. Yes we know currently there many terror outfits based on one religion but that does not mean people who profess that religion endorse such things. It is just the time when one community is struggling throughout middle east due to various destabilization of govts. As a result right wing radical elements got powerful. More powerful than govt and when poverty increases then you will see more vulnerable people falling into trap of such outfit agendas. Its a matter of time when many countries are struggling as a result of these powerful gangs who manipulate religion to fulfill their agendas.

  8. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by vk23 View Post
    My friend extremism can be anywhere in any shape. Yes we know currently there many terror outfits based on one religion but that does not mean people who profess that religion endorse such things. It is just the time when one community is struggling throughout middle east due to various destabilization of govts. As a result right wing radical elements got powerful. More powerful than govt and when poverty increases then you will see more vulnerable people falling into trap of such outfit agendas. Its a matter of time when many countries are struggling as a result of these powerful gangs who manipulate religion to fulfill their agendas.
    If beheading people, marrying four wives, keeping concubines, hell for others, woman as commodity, waging war against others, stoning for adultery, martyrdom for heaven bla bla is written in book of a religion. What do you call that religion ?

    MIND IT. I am not talking about people who are following it. I am talking about the religion itself. Otherwise you will start the story few are bad few are good bla bla.

    Tell me if a book endorses crime & hatred in society , what should be done to that book ?

    Like I do not like many things in ManuSmrati which are against core values of humanity. I discard that book openly.

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  10. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by prashantacmet View Post
    Read "chachnama", read on Jatland wiki or just google you will find lot of matter to read
    Rathi, I hope you would have got few answers in post 73 of "sahij"...
    Become more and more innocent, less knowledgeable and more childlike. Take life as fun - because that's precisely what it is!

  11. #107
    Dear friends

    History is our past we have no control over it at present. History can’t be edited, rewritten or repeated nor can any create imaginary circumstances as real. The present fact is that India is a secular State; all its citizens have right to equality irrespective anti social or anti national deeds of one’s fore fathers. Non resemblance or heterogeneity in groups can’t be taken as enmity.

    It is fact that Hindu and Muslims are co-existing since centuries. No available option but both will have to find reasons for better coexistence; No remedy for self cultivated hate. Let’s spread new, united and strong India message.

    Thanks

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  13. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by RKhatkar View Post
    Dear friends

    History is our past we have no control over it at present. History can’t be edited, rewritten or repeated nor can any create imaginary circumstances as real. The present fact is that India is a secular State; all its citizens have right to equality irrespective anti social or anti national deeds of one’s fore fathers. Non resemblance or heterogeneity in groups can’t be taken as enmity.

    It is fact that Hindu and Muslims are co-existing since centuries. No available option but both will have to find reasons for better coexistence; No remedy for self cultivated hate. Let’s spread new, united and strong India message.

    Thanks
    Arabic religious practices can't be imposed to create harmony in Indian society. They have to discard it or change it accordingly if are equally interested in co-existence. This is a mutual exercise not one sided.

    Muslims in India must not indulge in terrorism, should come out against Wahabism, Shariat, Polygamy & other malpractices in their religion which creates problem in co-existence with any other religion under the sky. They should stop listening to Arabic mullas in order to keep India secular.

    We can't drive a vehicle if all the tyres are not in good condition. If one is flat it will be difficult to move forward. Why shall we feel happy being called secular and losing lives of hundreds of people every year in Terrorist strikes, blasts & communal riots.
    Last edited by RathiJi; November 10th, 2014 at 04:22 PM.

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  15. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by RathiJi View Post
    Islam is a religion of peace & it's followers were/are peace loving human beings who respects others faith and live in harmony with them across world. They are the front runners of social harmony in past & present everywhere ? Right, Mr. Rajpal.

    History is history it is never an emotional appeal. It should be discussed and taught as it happened. Kalinga ho ya Karbala. Don't mix it with your feelings.

    Thanks, Kindly address your posts to audience as is the practice followed in discussion !
    History is best when created, better when re-constructed and worst when invented.

  16. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by sahij View Post
    Sir, this is exactly rhetorical. You rightly point out that these are facts which cannot be denied - because there is overwhelming evidence to support them, otherwise you would happily deny it, I feel. The wording used by you, viz. "heterogeneous incidents/events that spread over thousands of years" is in itself a conclusive proof that these were not isolated incidents, but were concerted efforts of Muslims (often) not linked by bonds of kinship and/or even continuity in time but by their religion - which makes it even more serious threat and increases its severity manyfold - to subdue and subjugate Hindus, and everybody else on this planet.

    What this means is that forces of Islam can wait for considerable amount of time, before their adversary gets soft, relaxed and reluctant to drive them out, and then another bunch of people (totally unrelated, probably related only by religion may be), carry on the agenda left unfinished by their predecessors in the past. Of course all this resonates with what is written in their religious texts, and tallies with times and actions of no less but Muhammad himself.




    Clearly, neither during Mahabharata, nor in Kalinga war there was any religious connotation to any of the events. So the comparison stops there! And Sir, which two sides are you refering to by the word both? Clearly there were no two sides, Muslims invaded and destroyed Hindu lives, property and temples. Please give me instances where Hindus went to Muslim countries to cause destruction. If fighting for one's own life is called "butchering others" - than I very much lose faith in such an intellect being capable of doing impartial and just review of history.




    Sir, you are taking apologetics to a new level. Next thing you will say is that it is the gun that murdered and should be hanged instead of the accused.




    Sir, all this is rhetorical in nature. You have your own world view (read communist world view) and you imagine the world to be according to that, I can see you using the words "could easily be imagined". But what is easily imaginable in your mind, is not so easily imaginable in the minds of other sceptical and not so fertile readers of history. I for one cannot imagine, that Hindus, whose land, property, and valuables have been looted + whose daughters, sisters, and mothers have been defiled, and often enslaved and sent to Arabia + whose religious places have been desecrated, idols and icons destroyed and placed on stepping stones of mosques so that they can be trod upon, etc. would line up to live "amicably" and stand by with Muslims "in the hour of need." To my imaginative mind all the above that you have said seems like a fantasy world with an absolute disconnect with the real world. Indeed I can quote what al-Baruni said regarding feelings of Hindus about their Muslim "brothers".

    Please get out of your utopian socialist world, and try to live in reality, and stop being an armchair historian. There is a class of people, who sing praises of the same person who holds them by the scruff of their necks, and has a knife on their throats. I frankly think such people can never be reformed, and can never be brought out of their 10-by-10 studio apartments where everything is great and hunky-dory. Wasting time over such people, if I may say so, trying to convince them is hardly productive use of one's time. Instead society at large should be told the truth, and must be alarmed against dangers of Islam.

    Muslims are a bane to society not only in India, but world over. No continent (except for may be Antarctica) has been left where they haven't left their terror trail and indelible mark on local civilization. They are hated everywhere - in every country where they are not a majority. Jihad and uncontrolled child birth to increase their population are two hallmarks of Muslims - and both are a threat to every other peaceloving community on this planet.

    So nobody is trying to right a wrong done in history, they are clearly a very real and existential threat to the very existence of Hindustan/Bharatvarsa as a diverse, liberal Hindu nation of multiple faiths, and indeed to the whole wide world.
    History is a two edged sword, kindly use it to spread, communal harmony peace and unity among the people of the country. We can choose good examples of the people of the past to follow their foot steps or 'glorify' the misdeeds of a few to denounce others, the choice is ours. To my mind the country needs forces of unity and integration not destruction of India's Ganga-Jamuni culture. The country has suffered a lot due to surcharged communal strife around 1947, so need of the hour is communal harmony among all Indians.

    The people who did play their role in the past are not around to suffer or gain so let us concentrate our efforts to consolidate all the people of India to make the present India great.

    Kindly contribute also those aspects of life and letters of those times which could come handy to all its citizens to make India great.
    History is best when created, better when re-constructed and worst when invented.

  17. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by sahij View Post
    Why don't the "terrorists" use Hinduism and Hindus, for example, as a tool to manipulate things?
    The religion of terrorists is TERRORISM, nothing more nor less !!!!
    History is best when created, better when re-constructed and worst when invented.

  18. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by DrRajpalSingh View Post
    History is a two edged sword, kindly use it to spread, communal harmony peace and unity among the people of the country. We can choose good examples of the people of the past to follow their foot steps or 'glorify' the misdeeds of a few to denounce others, the choice is ours. To my mind the country needs forces of unity and integration not destruction of India's Ganga-Jamuni culture. The country has suffered a lot due to surcharged communal strife around 1947, so need of the hour is communal harmony among all Indians.

    The people who did play their role in the past are not around to suffer or gain so let us concentrate our efforts to consolidate all the people of India to make the present India great.

    Kindly contribute also those aspects of life and letters of those times which could come handy to all its citizens to make India great.
    What is this ? Kindly elaborate.

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  20. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by DrRajpalSingh View Post
    The religion of terrorists is TERRORISM, nothing more nor less !!!!
    Time chala gaya in jumlo ka ... namaj or hathiyar ek jagah mil jayenge Doctor sahab... thoda dekhne ki koshish karo.

  21. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by DrRajpalSingh View Post
    History is a two edged sword, kindly use it to spread, communal harmony peace and unity among the people of the country. We can choose good examples of the people of the past to follow their foot steps or 'glorify' the misdeeds of a few to denounce others, the choice is ours. To my mind the country needs forces of unity and integration not destruction of India's Ganga-Jamuni culture. The country has suffered a lot due to surcharged communal strife around 1947, so need of the hour is communal harmony among all Indians.

    The people who did play their role in the past are not around to suffer or gain so let us concentrate our efforts to consolidate all the people of India to make the present India great.

    Kindly contribute also those aspects of life and letters of those times which could come handy to all its citizens to make India great.
    Dear Friend,

    Can you see your signature again?

    don't mind but this is history section and you are not appointed here to spread the sugar-coated words for the harmonious co-existence of any Tom, dick and harry. Please counter the statements with the historical incidents so that layman like me can get the real picture of history. Please write in another section for ganga -jamuna cultural or any other "nawabi shauk" like theories if you can not substantiate what you write.

    I guess almost all of us have been dosed enough in movies, school books and speeches about that harmony and co-existence theory. We want to see the picture as it was and as it is now , nothing more nothing less. Anyway, if that co-existense really existed and if it was misdeed of "just few", we will gladly accept it but please don't spoon-feed us in this section just for the sake of your highly decorated thoughts

    Regards,
    Prashant
    Become more and more innocent, less knowledgeable and more childlike. Take life as fun - because that's precisely what it is!

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  23. #115
    Quote Originally Posted by DrRajpalSingh View Post
    The religion of terrorists is TERRORISM, nothing more nor less !!!!
    Please don't digress from the topic. You are moderator and thread owner. Please provide historical facts and not this holy stuff.
    Become more and more innocent, less knowledgeable and more childlike. Take life as fun - because that's precisely what it is!

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  25. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by RathiJi View Post
    Time chala gaya in jumlo ka ... namaj or hathiyar ek jagah mil jayenge Doctor sahab... thoda dekhne ki koshish karo.
    Rathi, can we continue discussion on Foreign invasions as per the thread theme? looking for something from you in that context
    Become more and more innocent, less knowledgeable and more childlike. Take life as fun - because that's precisely what it is!

  26. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by RKhatkar View Post
    Dear friends

    History is our past we have no control over it at present. History can’t be edited, rewritten or repeated nor can any create imaginary circumstances as real. The present fact is that India is a secular State; all its citizens have right to equality irrespective anti social or anti national deeds of one’s fore fathers. Non resemblance or heterogeneity in groups can’t be taken as enmity.

    It is fact that Hindu and Muslims are co-existing since centuries. No available option but both will have to find reasons for better coexistence; No remedy for self cultivated hate. Let’s spread new, united and strong India message.

    Thanks
    But sir, this is history section. It will be wise enough to scrap this section from JL.!!.let us people channelize their energy to somewhere else...right?
    Become more and more innocent, less knowledgeable and more childlike. Take life as fun - because that's precisely what it is!

  27. #118
    Quote Originally Posted by prashantacmet View Post
    Rathi, I hope you would have got few answers in post 73 of "sahij"...
    I will read it now.

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  29. #119
    Hindu Jats don't marry their cousins, but Muslim Jats do. Hindu Jats don't kill cow, but Muslim Jats do. I can hardly find anything common between a Hindu/ Sikh and Muslim Jat. Will anyone educate me what Jat tradition Muslim Jats follow???

    RK^2
    There are many paths leading to God, politics is certainly not one of them...

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  31. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by DrRajpalSingh View Post
    Thanks for accepting the fact !

    There is no need now to overstretch the discussion as the issue stands resolved when you also agree that : He is a Jat.
    Dear friend Dr. Janghu, It doesn't matter what I accept. What matters is what world accepts. If one is true Muslim, then he is only Muslim and there is no caste theory in Islam. Same can be said for Sikhism. Learned people like you and Khatkar Ji should motivate the Muslim and Sikh Jats to be Hindu as caste system is very firm in Hinduism. In Islam and Sikhism, Jat identity is on the verge of vanishing. Please save them.

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