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Another important point is:
At what time the same people were called with different names and at what places? Such as when were Goths called Scythians. etc., when were Tracians called Scythians, etc. and at what point of time.
Another important point is:
At what time the same people were called with different names and at what places? Such as when were Goths called Scythians. etc., when were Tracians called Scythians, etc. and at what point of time.
Suggested link to Jats
See -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Getae
There have long been attempts to link the Getae and Massagetae to the Jats of South Asia. While W. W. Hunter wrote in 1886, the "weight of authority" that the Jats were an Iranian people – most likely Scythian/Saka in origin,[32] Alexander Cunningham (1888) suggested that the Zanthi, Iatioi, Xanthii and Zaths mentioned by ancient sources such as Strabo, Ptolemy and Pliny were synonymous with both the Getae and the Jats.[33]
More recent authors like Tadeusz Sulimirski,[34] Weer Rajendra Rishi,[35] and Chandra Chakraberty,[36][37] have also linked the Getae and Jats.
References -
32. W. W. Hunter, 2013, The Indian Empire: Its People, History and Products, Routledge, 2013, p. 251.
33. Alexander Cunningham, 1888, cited by: Sundeep S. Jhutti, 2003, The Getes, Philadelphia, PA; Department of East Asian languages & Civilizations University of Pennsylvania, p. 13.
34. Sulimirski, Tadeusz (1970). The Sarmatians: Volume 73 of Ancient peoples and places. New York: Praeger. pp. 113–114. "The evidence of both the ancient authors and the archaeological remains point to a massive migration of Sacian (Sakas)/Massagetan ("great" Jat) tribes from the Syr Daria Delta (Central Asia) by the middle of the second century B.C. Some of the Syr Darian tribes; they also invaded North India."
35. Rishi, Weer Rajendra (1982). India & Russia: linguistic & cultural affinity. Roma. p. 95.
36. Chakraberty, Chandra (1948). The prehistory of India: tribal migrations. Vijayakrishna Bros. p. 35.
37. Chakraberty, Chandra (1997). Racial basis of Indian culture: including Pakistan, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka and Nepal. Aryan Books International. ISBN 8173051100.
Laxman Burdak
DrRajpalSingh (February 25th, 2015)
Burdakji,Originally Posted by lrburdak
These are good links but the questions remain unanswered as to the first coining of the word : Jat; and, the place of their origin denoted by the word Jat as a community/race/caste or people.
Hope the members would continue to search for these two issues to bring the discussion to some satisfactory conclusion.
History is best when created, better when re-constructed and worst when invented.
Participants are requested to share their information derived from different languages Sanskrit, Prakrit, Persian, Chinese, Greek or any other about the use of word Jat so that the antiquity of the word could be properly comprehended.
Last edited by DrRajpalSingh; February 25th, 2015 at 12:08 PM.
History is best when created, better when re-constructed and worst when invented.
Friends,
It is a pity that we haven't yet been able to go beyond what had been postulated by some western commissioned writers about the roots. locale and prevalence of the people who call themselves and are called Jats today. There was a certain purpose behind planting and nourishing the theory of the Central Asian origin of the Jats. No doubt, there arose in reaction a gamut of writings, equally motivated to trace the people to an indigenous vedic Indian past on the part of authors who did not have much to do, either with the discipline of history or with the rigours of the Sanskrit and Prakrit languages throughout the historical periods. The result has been a nowhere to reach journey. Some writers have chosen to obfuscating the issue all together by a cacophony of non-existing connections in diverse lands.
If at all we want to make any head way we must shed much of the chaff off the stem. We notice sufficient amount of efforts on the part of many friends still clinging (relentlessly) to notions which should have been given up long back.
DrRajpalSingh (February 26th, 2015), lrburdak (February 26th, 2015)
Dr. Sahib,
It would be good if you could share your information derived by your wide reading of Sanskrit language as to the first time use of exact word/or its derivative that conveys the meaning/or denotes 'Jat' as a community/race/caste/people in any Indian or foreign language to set all the speculations to rest.
Thanks and regards
History is best when created, better when re-constructed and worst when invented.
Most of whatever has been stated in the west has been archaeologically and scientifically proven.
The sculptures, images, paintings, etc. all are present in the museums in the European countries, USA, etc.
Whereas in India most of stated history is more in fluid verbal sense, which has almost no archaeological or scientific backing until and unless archaeologically and scientifically proven. One simple case is that of big epics like Mahabharata. How many artifacts and remnants have been dug and preserved by archaeological survey of India, that belong to these periods, people, cities, etc. mentioned in this epic.
DrRajpalSingh (February 27th, 2015)
Participants [ having adequate knowledge to comment on the Vedic Mantras] are requested to elucidate the following references taken from the http://www.jatland.com/home/Jartika, if the word 'Jarita' has any connection to the origin of the Jat community or not :
Rigveda (X.27.1), (III.15.5), (VIII.100.4) mention about the tribe Jarita (जरित).
- असत सु मे जरितः साभिवेगो यत सुन्वते यजमनय शिक्षम |
- अनाशीर्दामहमस्मि परहन्ता सत्यध्व्र्तं वर्जिनायन्तमाभुम || Rigveda (X.27.1)[9]
- asat su me jaritaḥ sābhivegho yat sunvate yajamanaya śikṣam |
- anāśīrdāmahamasmi prahantā satyadhvṛtaṃ vṛjināyantamābhum || Rigveda (X.27.1)
- अछिद्रा शर्म जरितः पुरूणि देवानछा दीद्यानः सुमेधाः |
- रथो न सस्निरभि वक्षि वाजमगने तवं रोदसीनः सुमेके || Rigveda (III.15.5)
- achidrā śarma jaritaḥ purūṇi devānachā dīdyānaḥ sumedhāḥ |
- ratho na sasnirabhi vakṣi vājamaghne tvaṃ rodasīnaḥ sumeke ||
- अयमस्मि जरितः पश्य मेह विश्वा जातान्यभ्यस्मि मह्ना |
- रतस्य मा परदिशो वर्धयन्त्यादर्दिरो भुवना दर्दरीमि || Rigveda (VIII.100.4)
- ayamasmi jaritaḥ paśya meha viśvā jātānyabhyasmi mahnā |
- ṛtasya mā pradiśo vardhayantyādardiro bhuvanā dardarīmi || Rigveda (VIII.100.4)
Last edited by DrRajpalSingh; February 28th, 2015 at 03:56 PM.
History is best when created, better when re-constructed and worst when invented.
- One reference to King Yasovarman of Kanauj in the form of an article is appended below for favour of further research on the topic as to know whether he was connected with the Jats or not. If yes, his gotra or sub caste ?
- XIX. The History of the City of Kanauj and of King Yasovarman
Journal of the Royal Asiatic Society (New Series)
- Journal of the Royal Asiatic Society (New Series) / Volume 40 / Issue 03 / July 1908, pp 765-793
- Copyright © The Royal Asiatic Society 1908
History is best when created, better when re-constructed and worst when invented.
Could anybody elaborate the real clan and caste/community/race of Yasovarman to confirm/reject him as Parmar [ Jat ? ] as believed by some of authors.
History is best when created, better when re-constructed and worst when invented.
Yasodharaman, the ruler of Malwa who, along with contemporary Gupta ruler, defeated Hunas as per inscription based evidence is denoted as Virka Jat.
Is it a proper identification or not, kindly share your views.
History is best when created, better when re-constructed and worst when invented.
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Originally Posted by lrburdak
