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Thread: Literary References on word 'Jat' in Sources of History -- Reintrepreted

  1. #1

    Literary References on word 'Jat' in Sources of History -- Reintrepreted

    Though the topic of the thread is a much discussed issue since centuries of years yet no conclusive result has emerged so far. The topic finds mention here and there on this sub forum of Jat History as also many useful pages of Jatland Wiki. Here also divergence of views continue to be aired by the participants. A recent discussion on collection of Information on and about Jats of Rajasthan as referred to by Tod in his studies, instead of identification of the rulers and their realms, turned into study of the original identity of the word 'Jat.' see link :

    http://www.jatland.com/forums/showth...he-Jat-History

    Another thread which presented hard facts on history of the Jats which were not known to general readers has also changed its avowed aim and object and is now taking up the same issue of identity of the Jat word. See, :

    http://www.jatland.com/forums/showth...436#post374436

    Moreover, in historical studies newer attempts are made from time to time to re-interpret the already existing literature and new sources are taken up to re-study of the available evidences from time to time so as to incorporate newest development in the research methodology.

    In view of it, the purpose of the thread is to collect all the literary references available in various literary sources available in different languages pertaining to the Jats with special reference to their origin and role in ancient times. The participants are requested to share their knowledge on the issue by putting the original sources with or without their comments. The original sources quoted by other authors may also be posted quoting both original and cited sources in the posts.

    The information thus collected will be used to combine and contrast with the Inscription based information being collected on a separate thread on Inscriptions in this very sub forum on Jat History [to which Inscription related data may continue to be supplemented]; and in the end an attempt would be made to settle the issue of assigning pedigree to the community/race/caste/people as a distinct identity.



    Therefore, it is requested to participants to join hands to make all Jat identity material on one place and share their comments, interpretations so as to enable us to arrive at some tangible result without running to several threads of the site scattered here and there.
    History is best when created, better when re-constructed and worst when invented.

  2. #2
    Let us concentrate on reinterpretation of various references regarding Jats and leave this topic of origin and identity of Jat which is all together a different subject.

    So topic can be literary references about Jats reinterpreted.
    Last edited by narenderkharb; January 16th, 2015 at 03:58 PM.

  3. #3
    I would like to shift discussion regarding Ajayjarto hunan iti here under proper head.

    Originally Posted by narenderkharb
    Can you pinpoint the supposed error....

    1 Is it Gupto that is wrongly understood as Jarto?

    2 Or is it Jarta but wrongly interpreted for Jats?

    Narendra Ji,
    The error lies in quoting the portion as 'jarto' ('t' hard)whereas the correct text is jarto (with soft 't').
    The error makes much difference.
    Rest of his reading represents one view from among the two prevalent viz. ajayaj.../ajaya gupto is faithfully reprouced by him.
    Even if that part is correct our problem with regard to the identity with regard to this 'jarta' persists before us as a problem, both linguitically and historically. But let us sail on.


    Rana Saheb so we are clear that
    Term is Jarta with soft t
    let us move ahead ...
    Now your point of view is this jarta is not used for group of people who now are known as Jats with hard T
    My contention is this Jarta is used for group of people today known as Jats which I will show subsequently.
    But first being a sanskrit scholar I have a question for you ..

    If it is not for Jats than what other meaning can you derive from Jarta from reference Ajayo Jarto hunan iti.

    PS I wanted to clarify that view about Gupto has been negated in subsequent research works by other scholars and the term is taken only Jarto in grammer text.


    Last edited by narenderkharb; January 16th, 2015 at 04:27 PM.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by narenderkharb View Post
    Let us concentrate on reinterpretation of various references regarding Jats and leave this topic of origin and identity of Jat which is all together a different subject.

    So topic can be literary references about Jats reinterpreted.
    The participants are supreme and their views will prevail in moving forward the discussion so I have no objection if participants want to concentrate on interpretation of this aspect of data on Jat History under this thread.

    The title of the thread may be suitably amended in due course of time.
    Last edited by DrRajpalSingh; January 16th, 2015 at 04:40 PM.
    History is best when created, better when re-constructed and worst when invented.

  5. #5
    It is the need of the hour to know from which language did the word Jat originate and also when and how did the word ‘Jat’ came to be associated with the name of race, people or community whom we at present designate as ‘Jat’.

    The thread is meant to exhort all those scholar to join the discussion who are interested to know their roots, the roots as described in the literary sources scattered here and there on vast mass of our ancient literature not only in India but also on areas of land mass beyond the frontiers of India, which the Jats at one time or the other had under their sway.

    The scholars are free to re-interpret the existing 'words' used by different scholars on Jat History and may also add their newer literary findings illuminating the word Jat in literature from across the globe.
    History is best when created, better when re-constructed and worst when invented.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by narenderkharb View Post
    I would like to shift discussion regarding Ajayjarto hunan iti here under proper head.

    Originally Posted by narenderkharb
    Can you pinpoint the supposed error....

    1 Is it Gupto that is wrongly understood as Jarto?

    2 Or is it Jarta but wrongly interpreted for Jats?



    Rana Saheb so we are clear that
    Term is Jarta with soft t
    let us move ahead ...
    Now your point of view is this jarta is not used for group of people who now are known as Jats with hard T
    My contention is this Jarta is used for group of people today known as Jats which I will show subsequently.
    But first being a sanskrit scholar I have a question for you ..

    If it is not for Jats than what other meaning can you derive from Jarta from reference Ajayo Jarto hunan iti.

    PS I wanted to clarify that view about Gupto has been negated in subsequent research works by other scholars and the term is taken only Jarto in grammer text.


    Narendra Ji,
    Thanks for asking for a focussed discussion on one issue.
    At the out set I would like to repeat here my stand briefly.
    1. There are two separate versions of Chandragomin'srelevant text text-(a) ajayajjarto hunaan itiand (b) ajayad gupto hunaan iti.
    2. Personally I prefer the later.Reasons can be given when necessary. But I would be happy if we can identify this pre-Chandragomi jarta and are able to locate the king of this descrition who should have defeated the Hunas indisputably.Also it would be incumbent on us to show systematically, following rules of historical linguistics, how the
    term jarta transformed itself into jaat and at what point of time.We also should illustrate the same with some examples of the time of the change.
    To your question I would answer saying that it is not a question of either this or you prove otherwise. I do not have a parrallel proposal. I have only examined what has been proposed by some inquiring friends and writers.In any case I would leave it with the remark that jarta was some one who defeated the Hunas.But need not find him out. As I stated in the very beginning that I prefer the second version. So, if I can not prove that Jarta becomes jaata I must choose my option which makes thing simple and plausible. The version which includes 'gupta' stands in the face of known facts of history. These are:

    1. Skandagupta answers the description eminently, his inscriptions bear out his successful engagement of the Hunas. The time scale also is in his favourv.z.455 A. To 467 A.D. Chandragomin was certainly either his contemporary or a few years senior. The example referring to an event during the life time of the grammarian could aptly be describrd by employing a verbal form in the Lang Lakara irrepective of the fact whether he was witness to it or not,
    2.The other name being brought forward here, via the jarta=jaata= Yashodharman does not fit into the scheme of things here for two reasons-(a) His time frame is the sixth century (his dated inscription at Mandasaur gives the date as Malava samvat 589=532 A.D.), whereas Chandragomin preceded him in the fith century A.D. So the grammarian could not have forestalled the feat against the Hunas achieved by him later. and (b) He was not the first or the only Aulikara king to have defeate the hunas led by Mihirakula. Another equally important claimant to this achievement would be Prakaashadharman (in all likelihood his father) since the Risthal Inscription discovered and published in 1983 amply states that Prakaashadharman gave a crushing defeat to the Hunas led by Toramaana.

    You have referred to some subsequent research which negates the alternative reading gupto in place of jarto. I would be interested to know details about the same. My trust was in S.K. Belvalkar, a celebrated scholar of Sanskrit Grammar. But I would say I would like to keep my mind open. So please give your response.
















    '

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  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by drssrana2003 View Post
    led by Toramaana.

    You have referred to some subsequent research which negates the alternative reading gupto in place of jarto. I would be interested to know details about the same. My trust was in S.K. Belvalkar, a celebrated scholar of Sanskrit Grammar. But I would say I would like to keep my mind open. So please give your response.
    '
    In his translation of Chanderagomin grammer Dr Bruno liebich (1899;312) Das Datum des chanderagomin first proposed to read Ajayad gupto hunaan

    Later Kielhon (1903)corrected the reading to Jarto
    Findings of Kielhon was accepted by liebich (1930:264-67) and proper translation to Jarto was agreed by proposer himself.

    RC majumdar always agreed that gupto is speculative by putting a question mark while proposing its relation to gupta.

    Recently a lady researcher did some research procuring many copies chandragomin from Nepal where word is Jarto.I am searching her thesis which is on net we can search and put her work also.

    So when the proposer himself stand corrected why are we following other who themselves are clear about their doubts?
    Answer lies in our anxiety to find who he was ......Sakandgupta???yashodharma????or some one else???
    My suggestion is leave it for time being and focus only on the available evidences and findings..

    That he was some Jarta not gupto or Japto etc...

    We can move forward from here.
    Last edited by narenderkharb; January 17th, 2015 at 07:22 AM.

  9. #8
    Now our focus should be was Jarto really used in sense of race/cast identity of a person and can this term be used for modern term Jat with hard T.If answer is yes, than who was this person referred as Jarta by Chanderagomin.


    Rana Saheb advantage of having a learned sanskrit scholar among us is we are never mislead by false arguments..On Yahoo Group Sh Satish Misra aka Adhin ( sanskrit scholoar) suggested word may be Jarta/Jarto but that meant an elephant ...ie An elephant defeated hunna .
    Last edited by narenderkharb; January 17th, 2015 at 08:08 AM.

  10. #9
    Regarding Jarta for Jats we can start with information given on Jatland by Laxman ji and critically putting our own views about it.

    Jarta



    Jarta (जर्त) Jarata (जरत) Jartika (जर्तिक) Jartrika (जर्त्रिक) Jarttika (जर्तिक) Jarita (जरित) is one of The Mahabharata Tribes, l
    Ptolemy[2] mentions the Zaratoi living in Jalandhar, where Pliny [3]describes Geratae in the country of Amanda, identified with the Salt range in Punjab. As the name suggests Zaratoiand Geretae are undoubtedly the Jartas of the Indian text[4], who defeated the Hunas in India at a later date.

    It is worth mentioning that some external sources also throw light on the Jartas, but they neither connect them with Jartikkas or Madras, nor do they denounce them. Pliny [40] the Elder, a Roman scholar (AD 23-79) places Garatae Jartas in the level country of Amanda near Taxila [41] Ptolemy [42] also refers to Zaratoi of Indo-Scythian in in Lower Indus, which to N L De [43] lies near Jalandhar. These sources establish the existence of the Jarta in Panjab and Sindh, but they do not speak adversely of them. Rather, the Bahikas are admired "for decorous behaviour and good ways of life [44]". Strabo [45] and Mgagasthenes [46] found them "simple and frugal,orderly in behaviour, observing self restraint in theft and not given to drinking except at sacrifices'. Diodorus [47] found them governed by laws in the highest degree salutary and their political system as one to admire; beauty was held among them in the highest estimation in preference to dowry etc." and "the inhabitants of these cities (Sangala or Sakala)" are generally held "in higher estimation than the rest of their countrymen". [48]

    Last edited by narenderkharb; January 17th, 2015 at 08:39 AM.

  11. #10
    From earlier times till as late as tenth century Jarta is used for Jats .Kachh a land of pastoral jats (must have read a lot about them in Jerman couple Von sigrid westphal and Heinz westphal's book)was recorded as Jarta desa.



    I am putting it from my post on another site.
    http://www.jattworld.com/online/foru...c-jats-gujarat


    Though this article mention Jats who came five hundred years ago but it is important to note that even much earlier Kaccha was recorded Jatland or Jarta desa by Indian Historians .In History and Culture of Indian people vol 4 The Age of Imperial Kaunauj p103 Kacch desa is mentioned as Jarta Desa where a Lakha Jat Lord help Abhira Garripu who is considered enemy of brahmins in tenth century .Even Gujarat is mentioned as Gurjarat in sanskrit and Jain literature. A proper break up of this name stands Gur Jarat ,Now Gur stands for Big or Messa and Jarta for Jat meaning Land of Messa Jeatae ......Why I say this is because ,had it been something else it would not have been called land of Jarta simultaneously at other place...............






    In a nutshell we are seeing constant use of Jarta over a timespan from Ptolmey Pliny chanderagomin till tenth century for group of people who are known as Jats .Ibbn batuta and Suleman ibn hukkal put name Jats for same people of Kacch and lower Sindh .Ptolmey and pliny mention them in Jalandhar and Punjab an area where they still reside and known as jats .So why should we doubt over use of Jarta for anthing other then Jat people.

    Last edited by narenderkharb; January 17th, 2015 at 09:32 AM.

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  13. #11
    Identifying identity of this Jarta through Ajaya jarto hunaan gives us a hint that ..one of the defeater of HUnaa was Jarta or Jat.
    He can be a Gupta King too who are believed as Jats by KP Jaiyswal via Arya Manju shree Mulkalpa..

    "Madurayaam Jaat vanshaadhya vanik surrvi narpo varaah...."

    Does that mean A man of Madura/Mathura from Jat family doing business became king....as suggested by KP Jaiswal
    or
    A man born in Madura of a vaishlaya lady became King as suggested by Satish Mishra.
    Last edited by narenderkharb; January 17th, 2015 at 09:50 AM.

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  15. #12
    According to C. V. Vaidya Jats are the Jarttikas or Jartas, living in ancient times in the vicinity of Sakala as mentioned in the Karna Parva of the Mahabharata. (His. of Med. Hindu Ind., Vol. I, 1979, N. Delhi, pp. 86 ff)

    Karna Parva of the Mahabharata. (VIII.30.14)

    शाकलं नाम नगरम आपगा नाम निम्नगा
    जर्तिका नाम बाह्लीकास तेषां वृत्तं सुनिन्थितम

    K R Qanungo mentions incidence from Mahabharata that there is a town named Sakala and river named Apaga where section of the Bahikas, known as the Jartikas, dwell. Their character is very repressible.He mentions about a Bahika who had to sojourn for a time in Kuru-jungal country sang the following song about the women of his country:

    "Though a Bahika, I am at present an exile in Kuru-jangal country; that tall and fair-complexioned wife of mine, dressed in her fine blanket certainly remenbers me when she retires to rest. Oh! when shall I go back to my country crossing again the Satadru (the Sutlej) and Iravati and see beautiful females of fair complexion, wearing stout bangles, dressed in blanket and skins, eye-sides coloured with dye of Manshila, forehead, cheek and chin painted wit collyrium (tatooing ?). When shall we eat under the pleasant shade of Shami, Peelu and Karir, loaves and balls of fried barley powder with waterless churned curd (kunjik), and gathering strength, take away the clothes of the wayfarers and beat them?" [History of the Jats, Ed Dr Vir Singh, 2003, p.7]

    Now we can apply some science to the above description in Mahabharata and the Kanungo History. Shami, Peelu and Karir are three tree species mentioned. These are found in Jat belt only in India and Pakistan. Barley powder with waterless churned curd refers to the preparation of Rabadi, the food of Jats in North-Western India. This is a pointer that the Jarta or Jartika are Jats.
    Last edited by lrburdak; January 17th, 2015 at 12:01 PM.
    Laxman Burdak

  16. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by narenderkharb View Post
    Now our focus should be was Jarto really used in sense of race/cast identity of a person and can this term be used for modern term Jat with hard T.If answer is yes, than who was this person referred as Jarta by Chanderagomin.


    Rana Saheb advantage of having a learned sanskrit scholar among us is we are never mislead by false arguments..On Yahoo Group Sh Satish Misra aka Adhin ( sanskrit scholoar) suggested word may be Jarta/Jarto but that meant an elephant ...ie An elephant defeated hunna .
    In continuation with the above interpretation, the following extract from wikipaedia also needs attention of the participants :

    The Jats ''are mentioned in the grammar treatise of Chandra of the fifth century in the phrase sentence "Ajay Jarto Huṇān" (Hindi: अजय जर्टो हुणान), which refers to the defeat of Huns by two Jat rulers under the leadership of Yasodharman. Other Jat ruler who fought with him was Baladitya.''
    History is best when created, better when re-constructed and worst when invented.

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  18. #14

    Jats in Imperial History Of India

    We have on Jatland Wiki entire book here - [wiki]An Imperial History Of India[/wiki]:

    I quote from the book pp52-53

    A great famine and invasion made the Eastern Provinces distracted, terrorised and demoralised.

    In that country, undoubtedly, (then) there will be a king a great king of (An Imperial History Of India: End of page 52)

    Mathura Jata (जाट) (Jat = जाट) family, born of a Vaisali (वैशाली) lady (T.), originally Vaisya . He became the king of the Magadhas (758-60).

    महादुर्भिक्षसंपातं परचक्रसमाकुलम् ।
    प्राच्या जनपदा व्यस्ता उत्रस्ता गतमानसा ।।758।।

    भविष्यन्ति न संदेह: तस्मिं देशे नराधिपा: ।
    मधुरायां जातवंशाढ्य: वणिक सूर्वी नृपो वर: ।।759।।

    सोअपि पूजितमूर्तिस्तु मागधानां नृपो भवेत (T.463b)
    तस्याप्यनुजो भकाराख्य प्राचीं दिशि समाश्टत: ।।760।।

    तस्यापि सुत: पकाराख्य: प्राग्देशेष्वेव जायत: ।
    क्षत्रिय: अग्रणी प्रोक्त: बालबंधानुचारिण: ।।761।।

    Owing to the name Gupta the dynasty has been considered by the author as Vaisya originally. But the author is careful to note the fact in the next verse that they were described before him (prokta) as leading Kshatriyas (kshatriyah agrani) (क्षत्रियः अग्रणी) (761).

    The invasion mentioned above refers to the Kota vs. Gupta fights for two generations.

    It is to be marked that although the king is not named, he is described as the son of the Vaisali Lady in the Tibetan text. He is said to have been a Mathura-Jata (जाट) (Sanskrit- Jata-vamsa जाट-वंस) . Jata-vam'sa, that is, Jata Dynasty stands for Jarta, that is, Jat. That the Guptas were Jat, we already have good reasons to hold (JBORS, XIX. p. 115). His Vaisali mother is the Lichchhavi lady. Evidently the ancestors of Samudra Gupta, according to this datum, once belonged to Mathura. (An Imperial History Of India: p. 53)

    My Note: We have to take into consideration the linguistic variations. In a country where there is no hard 't'(ट) we are left with no choice other than using soft 't' (त). So the Jat (जाट) being called Jat/Jut(जात)/(जत). जत becomes जर्त as Gujar (गुजर) becomes (गुर्जर) in Sanskrit.
    Laxman Burdak

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  20. #15
    The information quoted above is further elucidated in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narasimhagupta as under :

    "Narasimhagupta Baladitya was a Gupta dynasty ruler of northern India. He was son of Purugupta and probably the successor of Budhagupta. Baladitya along with Yasodharman of Malwa is credited with driving the Hunas or White Hunsfrom the plains of Northern India. His clay sealing has been found in Nalanda. The name of his queen mentioned in the Nalanda sealing is Shrimitradevi. He was succeeded by his son Kumaragupta III.He defeated Huna ruler Mihirkula on the delta of Ganga-Brahmaputra.
    Regnal titles
    Preceded by
    Budhagupta
    Gupta Emperor
    495 – ? CE
    Succeeded by
    Kumaragupta III
    References




    Comment : If this inference of Radhakumud Mookerji as cited above is taken into consideration, both the issues being discussed are resolved. The name of one of the persons comes to fore is a Gupta Jat king with title of Baladitya who defeated Huna ruler Mihirkula.

    His associate in this achievement is referred to in the next post that follows.
    Last edited by DrRajpalSingh; January 17th, 2015 at 12:48 PM.
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  22. #16
    The information quoted above is further elucidated in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yasodharman as under :

    " Twin monolithic pillars at Sondani in Mandsaur District were erected by Yasodharman as a record of his victory.[1][2]

    The victory of Yasodharman is mentioned in the sentence “Ajay Jarto Hunan” in the grammar of Chandra of the sixth century. This mention in the phrase sentence अजय जर्टो हुणान or “ Ajay Jarto Huṇān ”, refers to the defeat of Huns by theJats under the leadership of Yasodharman.

    External links quoted :









    Comment :The name of his associate in this achievement is referred to in the preceding post as Narsinmhagupta Baladitya . If both these posts are put to analysis together, they in all probability could clear the meaning of the Phrase "Ajay Jarto Huṇān" (Hindi अजय जर्टो हुणान), being discussed.
    Last edited by DrRajpalSingh; January 17th, 2015 at 01:00 PM.
    History is best when created, better when re-constructed and worst when invented.

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  24. #17
    Narendra Ji,

    In your flood of posts in one go you have brought forward material of such a wide range that I am simply overawed. I thought that we were focussing on the limited reference by a writer of grammar whose date is generally accepted as the 5th century A.D.The term jarta (with soft 't') even if turned into jarta (hard 't') Kindly note that I am using the terms in their stem form.In a sentence they are used with ' last letter 'o' , the by product of visargas through Sandhi.
    Granting that the term stands for the well known term 'jaat used today,we have still to name the king who alone or in combination with another was responsible for the defeat of the hunas in the pre- Chandragomin time i.e. the fifth century A.D.Certainly Yashodharman could not be eligible for the honour as his known date 532 A.D. places him after Chandragomin's time.Please offer suggestion identifying this Huna defeater.
    Last edited by drssrana2003; January 17th, 2015 at 02:04 PM.

  25. #18
    Dr. Rajpal Ji,
    1.You have two different dates to Chandragomin- % th century A.D. in post No.13 and 6 th century A.D. Kindly
    reconcile.
    2.Kindly go through post 17 to link up discussion.
    3. I could not understand the connection of the 'Bijayagarh Pillar Inscription given in your post No. 16 in the current discussion.Could you kindly elucidate.
    4. Since we have more information in the Risthal Inscription (515 A.D.) of Prakashadharman, the father of Yashodhrman, who is credited with the defeat of the Hunas headed by Toramaana,the father of Mihirakula. Shall we not be tempted to discuss the issue in light of this hitherto buried fact?

  26. #19
    Toramana was defeated by the Indian Emperor [wiki]Bhanugupta[/wiki] of the Gupta Empire in 510 A.D.[Encyclopaedia of Indian Events & Dates by S. B. Bhattacherje A15],[The Classical Age by R.K. Pruthi p.262]

    According to the [wiki]Risthal Inscription of Prakashadharman[/wiki], a 515 AD stone-slab inscription, discovered in 1983, the Aulikara king Prakashadharma of Malwa defeated him. (Ojha, N.K. (2001). The Aulikaras of Central India: History and Inscriptions, Chandigarh: Arun Publishing House, ISBN 81-85212-78-3, pp.48-50)

    Text of Eran inscription of Bhanugupta 510 AD

    सती प्रथा का प्रथम अभिलेखीय प्रमाण गुप्तकाल में मिलता है. 510 ई. के एक लेख से पता चलता है कि गुप्त नरेश भानुगुप्त का सामन्त गोपराज हूणों के विरुद्ध युद्ध करता हुआ मारा गया और उसकी पत्नी उसके शव के साथ सती हो गई थी।

    श्री भानुगुप्तो जगति प्रवीरो, राजा महान्पार्थसमोडति शूरः।
    तेनाथ सार्द्धन्त्विह गोपराजो, मित्रानुगत्येन किलानुयातःड्ड
    कृत्वा च युद्ध सुमहत्प्रकाशं, स्वर्ग गतो दिव्य नरेन्द्रकल्पःड्ड
    भक्तानुरक्ता च प्रिया च कान्ता, भार्यावलग्नानुगताग्निराशिम्ड्ड (ऐरण अभिलेख)

    In this inscription Bhanu Gupta is described as ruling and as the bravest man on the earth. Bhanu Gupta's, subordinate ruler was Gopa-raja who fought for Bhanu-Gupta against Hunas and died on the battle-field of Eran. His wife became the Sati in 510 AD.

    Note -You can see more information on Jatland at [wiki]Eran[/wiki]
    Last edited by lrburdak; January 17th, 2015 at 04:21 PM.
    Laxman Burdak

  27. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by drssrana2003 View Post
    Dr. Rajpal Ji,
    1.You have two different dates to Chandragomin- % th century A.D. in post No.13 and 6 th century A.D. Kindly
    reconcile.
    2.Kindly go through post 17 to link up discussion.
    3. I could not understand the connection of the 'Bijayagarh Pillar Inscription given in your post No. 16 in the current discussion.Could you kindly elucidate.
    4. Since we have more information in the Risthal Inscription (515 A.D.) of Prakashadharman, the father of Yashodhrman, who is credited with the defeat of the Hunas headed by Toramaana,the father of Mihirakula. Shall we not be tempted to discuss the issue in light of this hitherto buried fact?
    Dr. Rana Sahib,

    The incorrect date may be rejected/replaced by correct one.

    I have quoted all the three posts from the sources quoted along with the posts in inverted commas as they appear at relevant site. The same applies to point 3 raised by you.

    I neither consider them to be authentic or non-authentic as the site itself mentions that additional authenticated references are required to substantiate the matter given at that place.

    But the purpose of our discussion is to collect as much sources as possible, compare and contrast them to reconcile the facts by removing the contradictions, if any.

    Therefore, let us continue our efforts aimed at collecting and scrutinizing newer sources to test the validity of hypothesis under discussion so as to move to another set of hypotheses which may emerge as the discussion progresses.

    Thanks.
    Last edited by DrRajpalSingh; January 17th, 2015 at 04:33 PM.
    History is best when created, better when re-constructed and worst when invented.

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