Jats and metallurgy

[maddhan1979]

It seems Jats in ancient times worked with metal, till the time they started to settle down as farmers. It is obvious travelling/migrating people/nomads needed tools for their everyday work. Living life of nomads also meant having a self-dependency in metal works, as in ancient times, metal would have been a prized possession to cut your way through forests, cut meat, using metal for cooking and eating utensils, etc.

Nomadic metal workers in India are called Luhar, which becomes Lu+Har. Root word "Har" in IndoEuropean languages and going back to the primitivity of the languages, the word "Luhar" is "Luheer". Ancient IndoEuropean langauges spoke "e" as "a" as spelled in English word "Apple". These ancient metal working nomadic tribes took to different metal works at different points of time in history depending on the availability of metal and the need+discovery of metal.
It is also possible that these ancient nomadic tribes working with metal could have been founders of many kingdoms through out the world.

Are there are villages named with "Luhar", in which Jats and similar tribes reside?

[maddhan1979]

In ancient times, trade was passed on to children, when one or more child took the profession of the parents. So, art of metallurgy was no exception. While some children of the metal working nomadic people would have taken to metal work others would have taken to other professions. It is also possible that throughout ages the kind of metal used changed, due to discovery of new metals and movement of these tribes. It is also possible that history of these metal working nomadic tribes pre-dates animal husbandry.

As the early humans were hunters and gatherer, the first thing these early humans would have liked to do is get better tools to hunt and for better tools which could replace stones, early humans discovered metal. Central Asia and parts of present day Russia has a long history of these metal working people, so does other parts of the world.

[maddhan1979]

One also have to remember the word "Heer" does not have to do with any single community or caste as shown by Brahmanical view of the word "heer", rather this is a linguistic and archelogical context.


The word "Heer" has been used in different forms in different IndoEuropean languages. This means there is some other root word in proto IndoEuropean language from which word "Heer" has emerged.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/heer

http://www.wordhippo.com/what-is/the...word-heer.html

https://answers.yahoo.com/question/i...2071259AA7TGPr

So, it seems there is "no one true origin" of word "Heer", rather the word "Heer" seems to be derived from some other "much older protoIndoEuropean word which might be original form of word "heer" and the "Word Heer in indoEuropean context has had many meanings as per the cultures through different times".

[lrburdak]

Heer or Her itself is a Jat clan. They are said to be originated from Heer Syala place.

see on JL - http://www.jatland.com/home/Heer

[maddhan1979]

It seems Jats in ancient times worked with metal, till the time they started to settle down as farmers. It is obvious travelling/migrating people/nomads needed tools for their everyday work. Living life of nomads also meant having a self-dependency in metal works, as in ancient times, metal would have been a prized possession to cut your way through forests, cut meat, using metal for cooking and eating utensils, etc.

Nomadic metal workers in India are called Luhar, which becomes Lu+Har. Root word "Har" in IndoEuropean languages and going back to the primitivity of the languages, the word "Luhar" is "Luheer". Ancient IndoEuropean langauges spoke "e" as "a" as spelled in English word "Apple". These ancient metal working nomadic tribes took to different metal works at different points of time in history depending on the availability of metal and the need+discovery of metal.
It is also possible that these ancient nomadic tribes working with metal could have been founders of many kingdoms through out the world.

Are there are villages named with "Luhar", in which Jats and similar tribes reside?

While the first King would have arisen from the commoners of these tribe, tribes/people, children of this king would have been called King's Children. These children of the kings often landed in the fights throughout ages and throughout kingdoms to ascertain their right on the kingdom which led to internal disputes and infighting as we can see from the history. The commoner person who arose as the king would have arisen through brute force, as the older societies were neither educated and were based on crude power play.


Religion on the other hand played a role of making the ruler happy in one form/making new rulers by creating stories/new names/connections and so on, or sometimes the forces of religion became the rulers themselves as we can see throughout history.

[maddhan1979]

While the first King would have arisen from the commoners of these tribe, tribes/people, children of this king would have been called King's Children. These children of the kings often landed in the fights throughout ages and throughout kingdoms to ascertain their right on the kingdom which led to internal disputes and infighting as we can see from the history. The commoner person who arose as the king would have arisen through brute force, as the older societies were neither educated and were based on crude power play.



Religion on the other hand played a role of making the ruler happy in one form/making new rulers by creating stories/new names/connections and so on, or sometimes the forces of religion became the rulers themselves as we can see throughout history.

The time period of these rulers, tribes and people were mostly in Before Chirst BC era ) i.e. BC.
Although there were also later wave of migrations that happened throughout history.

[maddhan1979]

These were also the people whose travelling roots were connected with "Chariot" ,horses, travelling homes, etc.

[maddhan1979]

Heer or Her itself is a Jat clan. They are said to be originated from Heer Syala place.

see on JL - http://www.jatland.com/home/Heer

Just seems to be name of a place,,,have no reference to "Syala",,,,,, whereas the word " Heer has many forms forms one of them being "Har"

[maddhan1979]

Heer or Her itself is a Jat clan. They are said to be originated from Heer Syala place.

see on JL - http://www.jatland.com/home/Heer

There is some wrong information being pumped in at this forum.

There are two different words in hindi "Heer" and "AAheer".

In Hindi the suffix "AA" where "A" stands for "AAM" wala "AA" like in fruit "AAM" acts as negation or negative prefix, whereas "Su" acts as positive prefix.

A simple example is root word "Neeta" which becomes negated to make "AANeeta" or positive form being "Suneeta".

Similarly root word "heer" "Hur" Har" has a negated form "AAHeer", which means these are the people with different roots and they are coming from different origins.

[maddhan1979]

Central asian migration of Jats is proven by the fact that there is a city called "Haridwar", meaning gate of "Hari". It seems during some part of history these tribes migrated from central asia via. Himalaya.

There is a single word which joins "Jats" to "root word" Hurr".

Can anyone state that word?

[maddhan1979]

There is some wrong information being pumped in at this forum.

There are two different words in hindi "Heer" and "AAheer".

In Hindi the suffix "AA" where "A" stands for "AAM" wala "AA" like in fruit "AAM" acts as negation or negative prefix, whereas "Su" acts as positive prefix.

A simple example is root word "Neeta" which becomes negated to make "AANeeta" or positive form being "Suneeta".

Similarly root word "heer" "Hur" Har" has a negated form "AAHeer", which means these are the people with different roots and they are coming from different origins.

The so called people "Heer", "Hur", etc., it seems were not cattle grazers.
There is an old song called "Om jai jagdish hare, swami jai jagdish hare, tum ho eek "AAgochar"".
Now in this old song that people sing the word used is "AAgochar", this means, there were two different type of people, one who used to graze cattle and others were not cattle grazers, we must also remember that "Om Jai Jagdish Hare" song is also coming from Indian religious roots, therefore the origin of this song might connect with Indian subcontinent.
The word "AAgochar" itself means, people who do not graze cattle. It is interesting to see, that the concept of cow and its prominence as a statue is present more in the southern Indian states rather than north of India. Rather, north Indian people seem to have more sheeps and goats as these can be seen in Himalayas and other parts of old Bharat. Animals such as sheeps and goats can also easily travel across steep Himalayas and have a fast breeding cycle, therefore relevance of sheeps and goats must more prominent for migrating tribes.

[maddhan1979]

The so called people "Heer", "Hur", etc., it seems were not cattle grazers.
There is an old song called "Om jai jagdish hare, swami jai jagdish hare, tum ho eek "AAgochar"".
Now in this old song that people sing the word used is "AAgochar", this means, there were two different type of people, one who used to graze cattle and others were not cattle grazers.
The word "AAgochar" itself means, people who do not graze cattle. It is interesting to see, that the concept of cow and its prominence as a statue is present more in the southern Indian states rather than north of India. Rather, north Indian people seem to have more sheeps and goats as these can be seen in Himalayas and other parts of old Bharat. Animals such as sheeps and goats can also easily travel across steep Himalayas and have a fast breeding cycle, therefore relevance of sheeps and goats must more prominent for migrating tribes.

If you are travelling into India in ancient times, you would have had to cross Himalayas at certain point of time and animals such as sheeps and goats were the best animals to travel across dry and high Himalayas. Would big animals like bulls and cows cross such hard terrain, i do not know, although i have my doubts.

[maddhan1979]

The so called people "Heer", "Hur", etc., it seems were not cattle grazers.
There is an old song called "Om jai jagdish hare, swami jai jagdish hare, tum ho eek "AAgochar"".
Now in this old song that people sing the word used is "AAgochar", this means, there were two different type of people, one who used to graze cattle and others were not cattle grazers.
The word "AAgochar" itself means, people who do not graze cattle. It is interesting to see, that the concept of cow and its prominence as a statue is present more in the southern Indian states rather than north of India. Rather, north Indian people seem to have more sheeps and goats as these can be seen in Himalayas and other parts of old Bharat. Animals such as sheeps and goats can also easily travel across steep Himalayas and have a fast breeding cycle, therefore relevance of sheeps and goats must more prominent for migrating tribes.

While "Hare" seems to be owner of animals, land, etc.

[DrRajpalSingh]

Central asian migration of Jats is proven by the fact that there is a city called "Haridwar", meaning gate of "Hari". It seems during some part of history these tribes migrated from central asia via. Himalaya.

There is a single word which joins "Jats" to "root word" Hurr".

Can anyone state that word?

Kindly illuminate how Haridwar is connected with solely Jats and not other castes !

[maddhan1979]

Kindly illuminate how Haridwar is connected with solely Jats and not other castes !

It is not only about Jats but about ancient tribal migration roots.

[maddhan1979]

Kindly illuminate how Haridwar is connected with solely Jats and not other castes !

As far as i have been able to understand word "Jat" is not a caste rather a "Community", the word comes from "Commune". Which as i have been able to read means, people with common origins.

[DrRajpalSingh]

As far as i have been able to understand word "Jat" is not a caste rather a "Community", the word comes from "Commune". Which as i have been able to read means, people with common origins.

Agreed commune meaning but what about origin of 'Jat' from it --kindly elucidate with specific information, if any, related with the Jats only. Otherwise the topic of discussion remains beyond comprehension for the readers.

Thanks

[maddhan1979]

It is not only about Jats but about ancient tribal migration roots.

This was one migration route for these similar tribes, there were similar tribal migration routes at different time periods from different entry points in ancient India. There were some common links which united these tribes.

[maddhan1979]

The so called people "Heer", "Hur", etc., it seems were not cattle grazers.
There is an old song called "Om jai jagdish hare, swami jai jagdish hare, tum ho eek "AAgochar"".
Now in this old song that people sing the word used is "AAgochar", this means, there were two different type of people, one who used to graze cattle and others were not cattle grazers.
The word "AAgochar" itself means, people who do not graze cattle. It is interesting to see, that the concept of cow and its prominence as a statue is present more in the southern Indian states rather than north of India. Rather, north Indian people seem to have more sheeps and goats as these can be seen in Himalayas and other parts of old Bharat. Animals such as sheeps and goats can also easily travel across steep Himalayas and have a fast breeding cycle, therefore relevance of sheeps and goats must more prominent for migrating tribes.

There are lot of loan words(words which are taken from other civilizations, tribes, cultures, countries, etc) in the languages that north Indians use e.g. word " Swami" seems to be of south Indian origin but that does not mean tribes or people speaking this north Indian languages are coming from south of India(although some migration might have taken for certain tribes at certain point of time).
India is a big and diverse country with the concept of @Unity in Diversity, which joins us to the rest of the world are these northern migration routes.

[DrRajpalSingh]

There are lot of loan words(words which are taken from other civilizations, tribes, cultures, countries, etc) in the languages that north Indians use e.g. word " Swami" seems to be of south Indian origin but that does not mean tribes or people speaking this north Indian languages are coming from south of India(although some migration might have taken for certain tribes at certain point of time).
India is a big and diverse country with the concept of @Unity in Diversity, which joins us to the rest of the world are these northern migration routes.

What is all this about -- Metallurgy or Jats as the thread started by you suggests ? I think none ! Could you specify. The sub forum is for serious discussion on history. General discussion could be held elsewhere meant for the purpose.