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Thread: Indo European langauges and Jat family name Meadh

  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by maddhan1979 View Post
    It is interesting to see, how words are spelled.

    The family name "Meadhhan" or "Maddhan" or "Madhan", comes from middle east and might have its origins in central Asian nomadic tribes.



    Iranic pronunciation for it is "Meadh", it is interesting to, while there is a similar sounding word with a different origin called "Mit", while "Mit" is similar to "Meet", both the words "Meadh" and "Mit" seem to be coming from different origins. While "Meadh" might be more closer to Indo European word "Mead" which connects with english word meadow. Now the question arises, Who would have kept such a family names? The answer might be present in ancient lifestyles, i.e. who would have associated themselves with a place like "Meadow"? naturally shepherds, the next question is what animal were these people grazing? The answer might be present in the ancient kingdom of "Media", Median kingdom was established by "Mead's".

    Another word used in some places in Indian context for Madhann is "Kaalheer",,,,,,,, While "Kaal" is a sanskrit word which means "Time" and "Heer" is an old middle eastern/maybe Persian word. It might connect with very old migration to Indian subcontinent of these people.


    Now where is the root of "Heer"? "Heer", "Meer" and "Neer" all are indo european words and found across different languages.






    https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Meer
    Last edited by maddhan1979; December 18th, 2015 at 06:32 PM.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by maddhan1979 View Post
    Another word used in some places Indian context for Madhann is "Kaalheer",,,,,,,, While "Kaal" is a sanskrit word which means "Time" and "Heer" is an old middle eastern word. It might connect with very old migration to Indian subcontinent of these people.


    Now where is the root of "Heer"? "Heer", "Meer" and "Neer" all are indo european words and found across different languages.






    https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Meer



    "Heer" could also connect with "Huurian kingdom" and as these people were very early migrants to Indian subcontinent from Hurrian kingdom on the , therefore they were called "Kaal" which in English language mean "Ancient". The two words "Kaal" and "Kala", the colour which means "Black", should not be confused as these are two very different words altogether, as per current context of India, Indians have all the shapes, sizes, color and races. Although these people could have been of any colour as any society of ancient times. In ancient societies, where trades were carried on horses, camels, etc. societies were mixed with the original stock as the civilizations lived over vast distances and there were fast travelling means. As these ancient civilizations had a strong link to horse as means of transport. It is possible that these ancient civilizations had their roots in central Asian and Eurasian tribes.
    Last edited by maddhan1979; December 21st, 2015 at 07:54 AM.

  3. #23
    Meer is in central asian civilization context is talked about as lake, sea i.e. the word is representing "Water", now what kind of water body are we talking about?

    Interestingly the water body that is being talked about might refer to water bodies found in central Asia, is there a reference to some specific water body related with this word?
    Last edited by maddhan1979; December 18th, 2015 at 06:34 PM.

  4. #24

    Mittle, Madhya, Meadh

    Indo European languages have routes/roots in central asia and middle east. At certain time in human history, when people traveled on horses and Eurasian subcontinent was open for travelling through various trade routes and horse routes. It is possible that people knew the extend of the land from far east to far west of those Eurasian traversing days. Far east being farthest part of China till a sea was reached and farthest west being Farthest part of Europe till sea was reached. As in old Eurasian times, sea travel across the sea to Amerika was not common till the time Amerika was discovered by Christopher Colombus.

    So, it is very much possible that people who were travelling through different routes identified themselves with the location on Eurasian subcontinent. People coming from the middle of this Eurasian subcontinent could have identified themselves with this identity. In ancient times people who spoke both Semitic and non Semitic languages resided on Eurasian subcontient and this Eurasian subcontinent stretched from far east of China to far west of Europe.

    In ancient times there were numerous kingdoms which stretched across Eurasian subcontinent and it is possible that everyone living on this Eurasian subcontinent would not have known all the kingdoms. So, if a stranger came to some new place and he was asked where he is coming from? A person/s could have identified themselves with the location of the place he/they are coming from, rather than the name of the kingdom the person/s are coming from.


    So non semitic speakers of the language, when they went to a new place would have identified themselves with Indo European language roots i.e. "Mittle" or "Middle", which becomes "Madhya" in Hindi. (The exact location of this "Middle place" could have been anywhere India, ancient middle east, middle of the Eurasia, etc., which in today´s context is hard to verify)


    While Meadh, Med or Mead in English connects with ancients nomads who used to graze animals. The word "Meadow", also seems to be coming from the same origin and seems to connect with Meadh, Med or Mead. All of these three words seem to have different origins from "Mittle" or "Middle" in English. Although all of the words show character of Indo European languages but as far as i have been able to understand non Semitic languages came out of Semitic languages, therefore the origin of these words might have some older roots in Semitic languages.

    Again there are people in India called "Madhashi", this word sounds combination of two words "Madhya + Deshi", People who are local(Deshi means local) and come from middle lands. Although "Meaddh and Madhya " look similar but phonetically these words sound different and then there is a point that spoken language came before written language.

    So, these words show different roots and migration of the people.
    Last edited by maddhan1979; December 1st, 2015 at 08:13 PM.

  5. #25
    Non Semitic speakers seem to be later stage of people, moving, migrating, doing business, etc. As non Semitic languages such as Sanskrit, Anatolian, Iranian, etc. are later in human history if we consider the fact that non Semitic languages seem to be coming out of Semitic languages such as Hebrew, Arabic, etc.

    It is also possible that in older times the grazers of the animals were also the owners of the animals, which in later stages of human history changed. This change was because of the fact that later stages of human history saw many more kingdoms, kings, etc., which gave rise to a culture, where owners of the animals stop grazing the animals and the local population where the owners of the animals went and lived started grazing the animals.
    Last edited by maddhan1979; December 1st, 2015 at 05:55 AM.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by maddhan1979 View Post
    Non Semitic speakers seem to be later stage of people, moving, migrating, doing business, etc. As non Semitic languages such as Sanskrit, Anatolian, Iranian, etc. are later in human history if we consider the fact that non Semitic languages seem to be coming out of Semitic languages such as Hebrew, Arabic, etc.

    It is also possible that in older times the grazers of the animals were also the owners of the animals, which in later stages of human history changed. This change was because of the fact that later stages of human history saw many more kingdoms, kings, etc., which gave rise to a culture, where owners of the animals stop grazing the animals and the local population where the owners of the animals went and lived started grazing the animals.

    The difference between the original owners of the animals and the people who started grazing the animals of owners could the difference in the language of the people in India context this difference could be seen inform of "Heer and Aheer", where in ancient times one group used to graze the animals and one group were the owners of the animals. This difference could also be the difference which clearly classified the two based on early migration and later work done by local resident.
    Last edited by maddhan1979; December 1st, 2015 at 08:18 PM.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by maddhan1979 View Post
    You might be bit confused there are lot of similar words, which look very close but are not same.

    If u listen to national anthem of Kurds, which is very old, they say about "Medes" in their national anthem.

    As per the Arabs, i have not seen any archaeological work. If u have some archaeological work which proves, what u say, then it will good to read.

    At least i have not seen any archaeological work which states that people of Median empire or Kurds were living in the marshy areas of Iraq.
    Although it is possible that some group of people from Median empire moved and started living in Marshy areas at later part of history. We are talking about "Medes"and the time of "Medes" is several hundred years before marsh Arabs that have been mentioned here by Dr.Rajpal . It is possible that the roots or origins of these marsh Arabs as they are called in later stages of history is from Median people but i have not seen any archaeological work on that.


    When we are talking about ancient middle east then we must remember that time period for civilizations and kingdoms in middle east has been for several thousand years and there have been numerous kingdoms, civilizations, etc. which flourished and got destroyed over different periods but if we are looking for the oldest links then family name "Mead", "Meadh", seems to connect with Median kingdom.


    Archelogical history of ancient middle east has been archaeologically proved for a time period of at least 7000 years BC.
    Last edited by maddhan1979; December 4th, 2015 at 08:37 AM.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by maddhan1979 View Post
    The difference between the original owners of the animals and the people who started grazing the animals of owners could the difference in the language of the people in India context this difference could be seen inform of "Heer and Aheer", where in ancient times one group used to graze the animals and one group were the owners of the animals. This difference could also be the difference which clearly classified the two based on early migration and later work done by local resident.



    Tribal migrations, tribal roots, tribal wars, wars between kingdom, development of villages, development of cities, find of new metal, use of different metals at different point of time in history, has scientific and normal human progression roots which are scientifically and archaeologically verifiable.
    Last edited by maddhan1979; December 5th, 2015 at 10:11 AM.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by maddhan1979 View Post
    Tribal migrations, tribal roots, tribal wars, wars between kingdom, development of villages, development of cities, find of new metal, use of different metals at different point of time in history, has scientific and normal human progression roots which are scientifically and archaeologically verifiable.
    For this one has to see,when and where metals were discovered in human history?

  10. #30

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by maddhan1979 View Post
    Indo European languages have routes/roots in central asia and middle east. At certain time in human history, when people traveled on horses and Eurasian subcontinent was open for travelling through various trade routes and horse routes. It is possible that people knew the extend of the land from far east to far west of those Eurasian traversing days. Far east being farthest part of China till a sea was reached and farthest west being Farthest part of Europe till sea was reached. As in old Eurasian times, sea travel across the sea to Amerika was not common till the time Amerika was discovered by Christopher Colombus.

    So, it is very much possible that people who were travelling through different routes identified themselves with the location on Eurasian subcontinent. People coming from the middle of this Eurasian subcontinent could have identified themselves with this identity. In ancient times people who spoke both Semitic and non Semitic languages resided on Eurasian subcontient and this Eurasian subcontinent stretched from far east of China to far west of Europe.

    In ancient times there were numerous kingdoms which stretched across Eurasian subcontinent and it is possible that everyone living on this Eurasian subcontinent would not have known all the kingdoms. So, if a stranger came to some new place and he was asked where he is coming from? A person/s could have identified themselves with the location of the place he/they are coming from, rather than the name of the kingdom the person/s are coming from.


    So non semitic speakers of the language, when they went to a new place would have identified themselves with Indo European language roots i.e. "Mittle" or "Middle", which becomes "Madhya" in Hindi. (The exact location of this "Middle place" could have been anywhere India, ancient middle east, middle of the Eurasia, etc., which in today´s context is hard to verify)


    While Meadh, Med or Mead in English connects with ancients nomads who used to graze animals. The word "Meadow", also seems to be coming from the same origin and seems to connect with Meadh, Med or Mead. All of these three words seem to have different origins from "Mittle" or "Middle" in English. Although all of the words show character of Indo European languages but as far as i have been able to understand non Semitic languages came out of Semitic languages, therefore the origin of these words might have some older roots in Semitic languages.

    Again there are people in India called "Madhashi", this word sounds combination of two words "Madhya + Deshi", People who are local(Deshi means local) and come from middle lands. Although "Meaddh and Madhya " look similar but phonetically these words sound different and then there is a point that spoken language came before written language.

    So, these words show different roots and migration of the people.

    There is a word in Sanskrit called "Ahwameadh", "Where Ashwa means horse and meadh means sacrifice", this is the meaning as shown through religious and language Sanskrit, whereas in ancient history "Meadh" was an ancient tribe which used to ride horses. It is also possible that "Meadhs" or "Meads" as they are known in history and present, were part of Scythian tribesmen and used to perform horse sacrifice as done by ancient Scythians, which came to be known in Sanskrit as "Ashwameadh", this word does not seem to be original Sanskrit word, rather loan word in Sanskrit. As origin of "Meads" has been archaeologically verified in the location of northern Iran, which connects with central Asian and Eurasian plains, it is possible that tribes of "Meads" migrated from Eurasian plains.

    "Meads", "Meads" show a clear difference between "Madhya" and "Mead", by the above usage.
    Last edited by maddhan1979; December 19th, 2015 at 07:26 AM.

  12. #32

  13. #33

  14. #34
    A similar word of "Meadh" as a family name is also used by Rajpoots in India.
    While the Jats who use "Meadh" or "Mead" or "Madd (in Khari boli of Hindi)" are also called "Kaal Heer",, "Kaal means time" and "Heer is word used in Urdu (can be a borrowed word from some other language with much older origin) and many other langauges and has been discussed before, word Heer is non existent in Hindi language and is of outside Indian subcontinent origin", this could also mean that while the "Meadh Jats were original stock of migrants ". This shows a tribal migration and feudal way of life in ancient India.
    The geographical spread and family names of "Rajpoots" was different from the original tribes of these people. While the concept of "Rajpoots" seem to emerge only in India and the word "Rajpoot itself" is of Indian origin, therefore it is probable that the Rajpoot family names emerged out of original tribes that migrated into India and mixed with local tribes and other migrating tribes at different points of time in Indian history. Jats have a wider geographical tribal roots, which are present out of India and more in the north western countries of India. This can be seen by the presence of their family names, which can be found in a vast geographical area throughout the world.
    Last edited by maddhan1979; December 18th, 2015 at 06:03 PM.

  15. #35
    Another proof of origin of word "Rajpoot" and its origin to Indian subcontinent, is that there is a word called "Runbakure" where "Run+ba+kure" "Run becomes war, ba+ Kure can stand for root word "Kur", which can also means "Kurd" in middle east languages"". As far as i know word "Runbakure" is from Rajasthan from where most Rajpoots derive their origins, as far as i have been able to understand.

    Kurd derive their ancestry from Median people. This can be seen from their national anthem :

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2VPAJmz8qA

  16. #36
    Interestingly "Mead" also means this:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mead

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by maddhan1979 View Post
    Interestingly "Mead" also means this:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mead
    It seems "Mead" is an Indo European word, rather than an Indian word. This word seems to be coming from much older origins because of the presence of fermented drinks in ancient Mesopotamian culture and central Eurasian plains. These words seems to have much older origins than Sanskrit language or the religious context in which the Sanskrit language and the Sanskrit words are show to Indian diaspora.
    Last edited by maddhan1979; December 12th, 2015 at 06:40 PM.

  18. #38
    on the other hand the horse sacrifice might have much older roots as the domestication of animals started much earlier in human history than making of fermented drinks.
    Last edited by maddhan1979; December 12th, 2015 at 06:40 PM.

  19. #39

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by maddhan1979 View Post
    Another word used in some places in Indian context for Madhann is "Kaalheer",,,,,,,, While "Kaal" is a sanskrit word which means "Time" and "Heer" is an old middle eastern/maybe Persian word. It might connect with very old migration to Indian subcontinent of these people.


    Now where is the root of "Heer"? "Heer", "Meer" and "Neer" all are indo european words and found across different languages.






    https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Meer

    It is possible that the word "Heer" itself is of much older origin than "Meer", as the linguistic roots of word "Heer" is of proto Indo European roots.


    https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Heer

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