The coats of arms and the symbolic colors used in the crest has nothing to do with the origins of these tribes, based on the language it seems these tribes were migrating from some common ancestral place, which spoke a common language. Most probably proto Indo European language.Originally Posted by maddhan1979
Last edited by maddhan1979; December 19th, 2015 at 09:04 AM.
Is it possible that the word "Meadhu or Madhu" have its origin in the word "Mead".
One must remember there is a big significance of beverages made from nature in human religion. A simple example is that of "Wine", which has religious significance and is made from grapes.
Is it possible that the word "Meadhu" or "Madhu" originates from word "Mead"?
It seems so as stated here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mead
Now which type of people will be keeping the name of some person after a symbol from nature? These could be people who live close to nature and derive their livelihood from nature. Therefore as "Mead" is one of the oldest drink known to humans, it is possible that these people were living a life of nomads and hunters and gatherers. While the use of word "Madhu" has been used for both male and female names. It is therefore possible that the origin of this word could could have been derived from proto indo european language root.
The word "Maddhan" on the other hand does not seem to connect with word "Madhu" because the concept of "Han" connects with people who ride horses and seems to be Central Asian/Eurasian origin. So Maddhan means people who ride horses and are connected with "Meadh". "Meadh" in this sense connects with ancient people who used to graze sheeps and other livestock.
As "Madhu" is a word in Hindi or some older words it is possible that this word is a coined or borrowed word at the time when different languages emerged out of proto indo European words. It is also possible that these ancient people who grazed sheeps, cattle and other animals in meadows were also trading in "Honey". In language hierarchy Hindi and other Indian/Indo Iranian languages are at a later stage of history than other Indo European languages, therefore it is possible that Hindi and other Indian/Indo Iranian languages used lot of borrowed words from older proto Indo European languages.
Let us see, how word "Madhu" could have been come into existence in Indian language from word "Mead". For this we have to travel back in time when there was no country like India that we know today. At that point of time there were many small kingdoms spread across Indian subcontinent and the borders of countries as we know today did not exist.
There would have been different type people lifestyles that people would have led. Some would have led a life inside castle,fort, etc. Other out in open area. Life in old times were very unpredictable as there were small kingdoms and armies invading. So, the best safe place would be inside a fort for such people. These forts would have people who were doing trade on a permanent level inside walled areas and the people doing trade out of walled area. We can still see the same life style in many cities of India where there are traders living and trading inside walled area. Then there would have people from out of this walled area to trade, travel, etc. The outside traders if in large number in old times would not have been allowed to trade inside the walled area of the fort, until and unless the fort itself was designed to accommodate outside traders. The people coming out of walled areas would have been outsiders from that kingdom coming from meadows, forest, grazing land, pastures, etc. The outside traders would have traded and brought stuff coming out of open areas like meadows, forest, grazing lands etc. Fresh honey which usually comes from forest, meat, forest fruits, forest wood etc., would have the the things these people would have traded with the city dwellers or the people who lived in cities. The origin of word "Madhu" and the IndoEuropean world "Mead", might have this roots in this act of trade done by outsiders. We can see this even today in different forms across India, where people who graze animals trade in such stuff. Now how and why "Madhu" is a female name and names like "Madhup" male names might exist in the fact that in agrarian societies and specially in the life of travelers, nomads, men would have done hard work like gathering food from the forest, hunting, etc., while women would have been selling the stuff in the market. This could be a reason as why "Madhu" is a female name and "Madhup" is a male name. This could also be link of word "Madhu" to IndoEuropean roots.
This could also be connection to origins of Gypsies or "Banjara" or "Vanjara" as know in Hindi. Language spoken by "Banjara" or "Vanjara" people is:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romani_language, which is an Indo European language. If Romani language is Indo European language then the word "Banjara" or "Vanjara" becomes combination of two words.
"Ban+jara" or "Van+jara", where "Ban or Van" clearly means forest while "Jara" can also be "Yara" as in some European languages "alphabet "J" is spoken as "Y", then "Jara becomes Yara", "Yara" in Indian language means a "Friend", if literally translated it becomes "Friends of the forest" or "Vanjara". So, if people were coming and selling honey out of forest these people could also have been "Gypsies" who came out of forest and used to sell forest goods and other stuff that they brought from other places. This could also mean that there were parallel civilizations which were existing at that point of time living inside forts. This might explain the Indo European origins of Gypsies.
In ancient times India was sparely and the population was wide spread, having forests and other uninhabited areas between forts. So anyone coming from a vast distance and emerging out of forest tracks or routes could have been named as "people coming out of forest". "People coming out of forest" does not mean that these people were natives or permanent dwellers of the forest.
"Parallel civilizations living inside the forts and living out of forts in vast open areas/forests, fields, etc."
To understand the above context one has to see a market in ancient times. There would have been at least two type of markets, one inside the fort another one outside the fort.
People from surrounding areas and inside the fort people would have shops inside the fort. People coming from outside the fortified area would have had shops or selling places outside the fort as identity of these new people would not have been easy to assertain.
People selling stuff outside the fort would have come from different places, these would include people who are travelling from one place to another, people bringing stuff from far off places, people from near by areas such as local forest or natives tribes living in forest, people from nearby kingdoms, etc. In such a diverse market "Totem" would have been easiest way to identify themselves. "Totems" could have been in form of name of a place where a person is coming from, product a person sells, name of another kingdom, etc. In local times lot of food was obtained from forest and the easiest way to identify a products and persons selling the products could have been place a person has obtained his product from.
As in any ancient society, native tribes living in the forest would have been the biggest procurer of products from the forest. This might explain the paradox of "Banjara or Vanjara", while literally translated this means, "friend of the forest",but the language spoken by these people could have been "Indo European" language. If this is true, the "Forest" of "Ban/Van" could be a symbolic/totemic representation of another tribe and the travellers/Banjara are the friends of these tribal people. As "Banjara or Vanjara" were travelling people so it was easy for them to take/carry their stuff and sell their good to far of places, but they would have needed people who procured the goods from local "Ban or Van", so the word "Banjara" could be a connection to totamic tribes living in the forest and procuring goods to "Banjaras". The so called "Ban" people would also have brought their goods to be sold inside the fort as their identification was certified by the fort, therefore they would have been the first people to open shops inside the fort. While people who were outsiders "coming out of forest" could have been anyone like travelling people, people from another kingdom, etc.
On a wider time scale these "Ban or Van" people could have been any tribe that resided in the forest/out of fort walls, these could have been native tribes or any other tribes which settled in the wide spread area out of fort walls but having proximity to fort.
Such examples also show the vastness and diversity of Indian civilization.
It could also mean, there were two different type of traders, trading the goods from the forest. One who resided in the "ban" or "Van" and the other who bought goods from the "ban" or "van" people. While "Ban" or "van" people. This could explain the word "banjara" or "friends of the forest" or "friends of the ban people", where "Ban" or "Van" people could have been people living in the "Ban" and were recognized by totemic representation of "Ban". As "Ban" seems to be indo European word, it is possible that this totemic recognition of "ban people" emerged with the arrival of "indo european speakers". This could also mean that there was a different word for "Madhu" spoken by the "Ban" people.
Ancient migrations could have given people different names, there is a word called "Dagar", which means "way". Jats have a family name called "Daagar". Interestingly there is a regiment called "Doogra" in Indian Army. Is there a common root word for "Dagar", "Daagar" and "Doogra"?
Is it possible that some ancient nomadic tribes in India made cities near the roads which in one language is called "Dagar".
If these names come from word "dagar" i.e. "Way", then this characterization is at a very late stage of history and languages because "Dagar" is word which seems to connects with later stage of language and not proto langauges.
"Dagar" as a word seems to emerge from very late Indo European language roots so it is possible that original name of these tribes could be different in proto indo european roots.
In recent context the root of the word might be "Dagar", but it does not link to proto indo European neither does "Daagar or Dogra", so there can be some other proto Indo European root in this context.
There is a Jat village called "Khandera",,,which translated literally means. "Dera of Khan", "Khan" in this context has nothing to do with any religion, rather it connects with roots of "han" or the horse riders from central Asia. Interestingly if i am right family name of Jats in this village is also "Dagar".
On the other hand this could also mean that there were various different type of "Ban" or "Van" people, that were selling stuff to the speakers of indo-european langauge. If we look into the life of "Ban" or "Van" people there is not a single tribe that resides in "Ban" or "Van" or rather there are many different tribes that can be seen living in any given "Ban" or "Van", depending on the place type of "Ban" or "Van".
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Originally Posted by maddhan1979
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