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Thread: Indo European langauges and Jat family name Meadh

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  1. #1

    Indo European langauges and Jat family name Meadh

    It is interesting to see, how words are spelled.

    The family name "Meadhhan" or "Maddhan" or "Madhan", comes from middle east and might have its origins in central Asian nomadic tribes.



    Iranic pronunciation for it is "Meadh", it is interesting to, while there is a similar sounding word with a different origin called "Mit", while "Mit" is similar to "Meet", both the words "Meadh" and "Mit" seem to be coming from different origins. While "Meadh" might be more closer to Indo European word "Mead" which connects with english word meadow. Now the question arises, Who would have kept such a family names? The answer might be present in ancient lifestyles, i.e. who would have associated themselves with a place like "Meadow"? naturally shepherds, the next question is what animal were these people grazing? The answer might be present in the ancient kingdom of "Media", Median kingdom was established by "Mead's".

  2. #2
    Madhan is the name of a tribe settled in the marshy lands of South Iraq. They are primarily buffalo breeders and are believed to have migrated from the Indus Delta via coastal routes.

  3. The Following User Says Thank You to drssrana2003 For This Useful Post:

    DrRajpalSingh (September 20th, 2015)

  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by drssrana2003 View Post
    Madhan is the name of a tribe settled in the marshy lands of South Iraq. They are primarily buffalo breeders and are believed to have migrated from the Indus Delta via coastal routes.

    Kindly site an authentic website, which states, what u said.

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by maddhan1979 View Post
    Kindly site an authentic website, which states, what u said.



    The research book on Madaan Tribe [ the buffalo breeders who migrated from India] and one more tribe Malik is a comprehensive history of the two Jat Tribes carried out by a German Couple. The study is published

    Jats of Pakistan - Some content online
    By Sigrid Westphal-Hellbusch and Heinz Westphal
    Publisher: Berlin : Duncker, & Humblot, 1968
    History is best when created, better when re-constructed and worst when invented.

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by DrRajpalSingh View Post
    The research book on Madaan Tribe [ the buffalo breeders who migrated from India] and one more tribe Malik is a comprehensive history of the two Jat Tribes carried out by a German Couple. The study is published

    Jats of Pakistan - Some content online
    By Sigrid Westphal-Hellbusch and Heinz Westphal
    Publisher: Berlin : Duncker, & Humblot, 1968
    The arguments and counter arguments are endless. Did the "German Couple" you mention study the linguistic connection?


    You can read something about Kurds here:


    https://books.google.co.in/books?id=...idence&f=false


    and here:


    http://www.scirp.org/journal/PaperIn...?paperID=19564


    As i stated before, the word you say as is "Madaan", this word is in Arabic, i do not know, how it is spelled in Arabic. Remember "in language development verbal form emerged first and then came the written form". You are showing me the written form and not the verbal form.

    As per Kurds, i am showing you the verbal form, if u listen to their national anthem and secondly if we see the history of the region and their ancestors we find that these people/their ancestors were living long before the Arabic tribe you mention were living at that place. Thirdly we are talking about proto Indo European language. Only connecting point can be the hierarchy of language development.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2VPAJmz8qA

    Another connecting point that is there is that these people that are being mentioned were living in comparative close proximity.
    Last edited by maddhan1979; September 21st, 2015 at 06:56 AM.

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by maddhan1979 View Post
    The arguments and counter arguments are endless. Did the "German Couple" you mention study the linguistic connection?


    You can read something about Kurds here:


    https://books.google.co.in/books?id=...idence&f=false


    and here:


    http://www.scirp.org/journal/PaperIn...?paperID=19564


    As i stated before, the word you say as is "Madaan", this word is in Arabic, i do not know, how it is spelled in Arabic. Remember "in language development verbal form emerged first and then came the written form". You are showing me the written form and not the verbal form.

    As per Kurds, i am showing you the verbal form, if u listen to their national anthem and secondly if we see the history of the region and their ancestors we find that these people/their ancestors were living long before the Arabic tribe you mention were living at that place. Thirdly we are talking about proto Indo European language. Only connecting point can be the hierarchy of language development.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2VPAJmz8qA

    Another connecting point that is there is that these people that are being mentioned were living in comparative close proximity.
    Discussion is about Madaans/Madhans and not about their neighbours Friend !

    But there is no use of prolonging the discussion in view of the absence of any further . supportive references on Madhan/Madaan.

    Thanks and best wishes
    History is best when created, better when re-constructed and worst when invented.

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by drssrana2003 View Post
    Madhan is the name of a tribe settled in the marshy lands of South Iraq. They are primarily buffalo breeders and are believed to have migrated from the Indus Delta via coastal routes.

    You might be bit confused there are lot of similar words, which look very close but are not same.

    If u listen to national anthem of Kurds, which is very old, they say about "Medes" in their national anthem.

    As per the Arabs, i have not seen any archaeological work. If u have some archaeological work which proves, what u say, then it will good to read.

    At least i have not seen any archaeological work which states that people of Median empire or Kurds were living in the marshy areas of Iraq in very ancient times.
    Last edited by maddhan1979; December 18th, 2015 at 06:28 PM.

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by maddhan1979 View Post
    You might be bit confused there are lot of similar words, which look very close but are not same.

    If u listen to national anthem of Kurds, which is very old, they say about "Medes" in their national anthem.

    As per the Arabs, i have not seen any archaeological work. If u have some archaeological work which proves, what u say, then it will good to read.

    At least i have not seen any archaeological work which states that people of Median empire or Kurds were living in the marshy areas of Iraq.
    Madaan Jat tribe is still living in marshy areas of Iraq for reference read the above quoted field based research book .

    You are also requested to authenticate with proof [preferably from your pet phrase archeological work] your comments and kindly do not use words like 'confused' for senior members.

    Thanks and regards
    History is best when created, better when re-constructed and worst when invented.

  10. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by maddhan1979 View Post
    You might be bit confused there are lot of similar words, which look very close but are not same.

    If u listen to national anthem of Kurds, which is very old, they say about "Medes" in their national anthem.

    As per the Arabs, i have not seen any archaeological work. If u have some archaeological work which proves, what u say, then it will good to read.

    At least i have not seen any archaeological work which states that people of Median empire or Kurds were living in the marshy areas of Iraq.
    I think it is a little hastey to call some one confused.We must maintain our civility.

  11. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by maddhan1979 View Post
    You might be bit confused there are lot of similar words, which look very close but are not same.

    If u listen to national anthem of Kurds, which is very old, they say about "Medes" in their national anthem.

    As per the Arabs, i have not seen any archaeological work. If u have some archaeological work which proves, what u say, then it will good to read.

    At least i have not seen any archaeological work which states that people of Median empire or Kurds were living in the marshy areas of Iraq.
    Although it is possible that some group of people from Median empire moved and started living in Marshy areas at later part of history. We are talking about "Medes"and the time of "Medes" is several hundred years before marsh Arabs that have been mentioned here by Dr.Rajpal . It is possible that the roots or origins of these marsh Arabs as they are called in later stages of history is from Median people but i have not seen any archaeological work on that.


    When we are talking about ancient middle east then we must remember that time period for civilizations and kingdoms in middle east has been for several thousand years and there have been numerous kingdoms, civilizations, etc. which flourished and got destroyed over different periods but if we are looking for the oldest links then family name "Mead", "Meadh", seems to connect with Median kingdom.


    Archelogical history of ancient middle east has been archaeologically proved for a time period of at least 7000 years BC.
    Last edited by maddhan1979; December 4th, 2015 at 08:37 AM.

  12. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by drssrana2003 View Post
    Madhan is the name of a tribe settled in the marshy lands of South Iraq. They are primarily buffalo breeders and are believed to have migrated from the Indus Delta via coastal routes.
    You must also remember that the name u are stating is in Arabic and not Persian.

    It might sound differently than in Persian. In Persian the name "Meadh" or "Mede" sound same as softer form Hindi. There is archaeological proof of northern Iranian origin of these tribes.
    Last edited by maddhan1979; September 21st, 2015 at 06:12 AM.

  13. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by maddhan1979 View Post
    You must also remember that the name u are stating is in Arabic and not Persian.

    It might sound differently then in Persian. In Persian the name "Meadh" or "Mede" sound same as softer form Hindi. There is archaeological proof of northern Iranian origin of these tribes.
    Dr Rana is talking about Madhan/Madaan and not about meadh or mede. Kindly see who is confused and who is not.
    History is best when created, better when re-constructed and worst when invented.

  14. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by DrRajpalSingh View Post
    Dr Rana is talking about Madhan/Madaan and not about meadh or mede. Kindly see who is confused and who is not.
    I am talking about "Meadh" and proto Indo European language and not how a word is spoken in current time period.

    Even the word you say as "Madhan" is spoken in different forms at different place.

    Such as "Madhhan" in softer form of Hindi. Khari boli speaking people will spell it differently.

    So, we are talking two very different things, therefore it seems there is some confusion.

  15. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by maddhan1979 View Post
    I am talking about "Meadh" and proto Indo European language and not how a word is spoken in current time period.

    Even the word you say as "Madhan" is spoken in different forms at different place.

    Such as "Madhhan" in softer form of Hindi. Khari boli speaking people will spell it differently.

    So, we are talking two very different things, therefore it seems there is some confusion.
    Hamn........ I do not dispute your imaginative flights !

    But it is requested that in view of your keenness to share your accumulated knowledge, choose 'general discussion forum' when there is no supportive evidence/reference material at your end !

    You will appreciate that History has no place for 'ifs', 'buts' and 'might have been/not might have beens! It is about what took place as is supported by data available in any form as source of information !
    Last edited by DrRajpalSingh; September 21st, 2015 at 08:49 AM.
    History is best when created, better when re-constructed and worst when invented.

  16. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by maddhan1979 View Post
    I am talking about "Meadh" and proto Indo European language and not how a word is spoken in current time period.

    Even the word you say as "Madhan" is spoken in different forms at different place.

    Such as "Madhhan" in softer form of Hindi. Khari boli speaking people will spell it differently.

    So, we are talking two very different things, therefore it seems there is some confusion.


    In Khari boli (dialect of Hindi) it becomes: Meadh is spoken as "Madd"
    Last edited by maddhan1979; December 13th, 2015 at 02:41 PM.

  17. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by maddhan1979 View Post
    It is interesting to see, how words are spelled.

    The family name "Meadhhan" or "Maddhan" or "Madhan", comes from middle east and might have its origins in central Asian nomadic tribes.



    ......
    You are not sure whether it is or it might have its origin in central asian nomadic tribes and have quoted none of the source of information for reference cross check. Kindly quote source so that discussion could be taken up further !
    History is best when created, better when re-constructed and worst when invented.

  18. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by DrRajpalSingh View Post
    You are not sure whether it is or it might have its origin in central asian nomadic tribes and have quoted none of the source of information for reference cross check. Kindly quote source so that discussion could be taken up further !
    Neither do i have time for further discussion as this is not my area of research nor do i have time for references and cross references.

    Yes, i am not sure because the time scale about which i talk about is very big starting from several thousand years before christ till the present day tribes. In such a big time scale people/tribes were moving from one place to another. What carried forward with these people and tribes were their language, words in languages are carried forward thousands of years, especially root words, with which people identify themselves, food words, words related with nature, climate, so on.

  19. #18
    If u have time for this kindly site more references and cross references.

  20. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by maddhan1979 View Post
    If u have time for this kindly site more references and cross references.
    You might or might not have read the book under reference !

    I go with findings of the above mentioned well researched book !
    History is best when created, better when re-constructed and worst when invented.

  21. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by maddhan1979 View Post
    Neither do i have time for further discussion as this is not my area of research nor do i have time for references and cross references.

    Yes, i am not sure because the time scale about which i talk about is very big starting from several thousand years before christ till the present day tribes. In such a big time scale people/tribes were moving from one place to another. What carried forward with these people and tribes were their language, words in languages are carried forward thousands of years, especially root words, with which people identify themselves, food words, words related with nature, climate, so on.
    Thanks for admitting futility of the vague thread discussion in the absence of supporting references !
    History is best when created, better when re-constructed and worst when invented.

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