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Thread: Migrations and Jat family names

  1. #1

    Migrations and Jat family names

    Who would have migrated into India in ancient times? Why were there no kingdoms from India beyond Himalayan range in Afghanistan in west, Tibet in North, etc.. One of the main reasons were the Himalayas themselves. In ancient times armies comprised of Elephants, Chariots, Horse riding warriors. The armies or migrants coming from outside into India were mostly horse ridden and Himalayas could have proved difficult for chariots of war (which would have been different from chariots of migrants) and big animals of war like elephants to go and fight wars across Himalayas. This could have been main reason as to why in ancient India civilizations and kingdoms did not expand beyond Indian subcontinent which was surrounded by Himalaya from all the sides. So, migrations and wars would have been mostly done by horse riding people and chariots to certain extent, because chariot riders would also have been horse riders and even if no chariots were able to cross Himalayas, chariot warriors would have been able to ride Himalaya across on horses and construct or manufacture chariots across Himalayas inside Indian subcontinents(one must remember in old times chariots were made of wood mostly). One of the reasons why such diverse identities in India were able to maintain and exist in form of their own identities was Himalayas itself. If we compare it to middle east or other open areas of central Asia such ancient identities rarely exist.

    Migrations into India hold clues through family names, names of villages, etc. Village name and name of civilization can be seen in form of Elam, Akkadian, etc.:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elam

    http://www.jatland.com/home/Elam

    Connection to Greek civilization can be seen from family names like Tokas, this family name is also found in Greek people even today. Jat family name "Kundu" could be connected with people coming from word "Kunduz":

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kunduz
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kundu

    These are some of the family names based on location, time and history.

    Then people coming from outside who started living in this land of Indian subcontinent could also have been from kingdoms which were destroyed, civilizations which finished, armies which were defeated, religions which were persecuted e.g. Zoroastrians, Judaic people,etc., people looking for better place to live, etc. These so called outsiders would have settled alongside different kingdoms, people, races, etc. as it so happened in ancient and is happening in modern times. Now some people would have identified themselves with their ancient roots, others with occupations, others with color, etc.

    Interesting is the fact of name of the color, color like black, red, blue, etc. are often used in first name and family name. "Red or Lal" in Hindi could have been used easily because these people were light skinned than other people, so the blood under the skin could have created an impression of red. "Black or Kala or Kaliya" could have been easily coined because these were the people who were darker in skin color due to strong sun tann and marrying into local population. "Neela or Neelu" is also a color and is often used in names of people.
    Last edited by maddhan1979; November 29th, 2015 at 06:54 AM.

  2. #2

  3. #3
    Most of these issues were discussed in the thread " Missing links in Jat History".

    RK^2
    There are many paths leading to God, politics is certainly not one of them...

  4. #4

    Jat movement into Indian subcontinent

    It seems the wave of Jat migration into Indian subcontinent is much older then, what is perceived although archaeological evidences have not been worked upon. Based on the linguistics, it seems movement of tribes into India subcontinent is very old but lacks the backing of proper archaeological evidences in museums. These kinds of archaeological evidences are not only missing for Jat history but rather history of all northern Indian tribes.

  5. #5

    Time frame of tribal migrations into India

    It seems tribes have been migrating into Indian subcontinent throughout historically archived time period of India.

    Based on the language spoken at the time of this tribal migration these tribes were recognized.

    One example of some of the IndoEuropean tribes which migrated into India can be seen in the root word "Han" or "Hoon", these were central Asian + China + Mangolia inhabiting tribes, which migrated into different parts of world throughout different periods. In India, we are able to first recognize these tribes by their root words "Han" itself, in the form of Duhan, Trihan, Chauhan, etc. One can think that these names were adopted by the local people or local tribes, which does not seem to be true because of the presence of the "Han" family names through out the world.One thing these tribes were recognized by were their ability to ride horses and nomadic life style in ancient periods. It seems these people were also the people who controlled trade through various parts of ancient world. These kind of family names with "Han" as the root word predates religious and linguistic recognition of these tribes. As "Han" being the root world and du, tri, chau being two, three and four. It is also possible due their horse riding ability these tribes were in contact throughout ages in ancient history.

    Lingusitic recognition of people in Indian context depends on the (time frame of the language spoken) time period in which linguistically recognition/recognizing word of the people/tribe is coined and the status/place of the tribe, people living in that time period.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by maddhan1979 View Post
    It seems tribes have been migrating into Indian subcontinent throughout historically archived time period of India.

    Based on the language spoken at the time of this tribal migration these tribes were recognized.

    One example of some of the IndoEuropean tribes which migrated into India can be seen in the root word "Han" or "Hoon", these were central Asian + China + Mangolia inhabiting tribes, which migrated into different parts of world throughout different periods. In India, we are able to first recognize these tribes by their root words "Han" itself, in the form of Duhan, Trihan, Chauhan, etc. One can think that these names were adopted by the local people or local tribes, which does not seem to be true because of the presence of the "Han" family names through out the world.One thing these tribes were recognized by were their ability to ride horses and nomadic life style in ancient periods. It seems these people were also the people who controlled trade through various parts of ancient world. These kind of family names with "Han" as the root word predates religious and linguistic recognition of these tribes. As "Han" being the root world and du, tri, chau being two, three and four. It is also possible due their horse riding ability these tribes were in contact throughout ages in ancient history.

    Lingusitic recognition of people in Indian context depends on the (time frame of the language spoken) time period in which linguistically recognition/recognizing word of the people/tribe is coined and the status/place of the tribe, people living in that time period.

    While du, tri, Chau could have been religious recognition of these tribes, when these tribes migrated and settled into Indian subcontinent. Religion in any culture has always had the roots from local already existing religious thought process and a combination of foreign tribal rituals.

  7. #7
    There is an interesting word called "AAYAT", i am not sure of its origin. Use of AA in AA+YAT, seems to negate "YAT". If in use Indo European use "J" and "Y" are replaceable, then it becomes "AA+JAT", or negated form of "JAT". "AAYAT", means import, and negated form of "YAT" means not imported. What can it mean?

    If the word "AAYAT" is from Urdu, Urdu in linguistic historical sense is very new, then it can mean that the tribes which were known as "Jat" or "Yat", were already living in the place, where this word was coined. On the other side, if this is from ancient Persian or Arabic origin then it can also mean that the tribes known as "Jat" or "Yat", were known to these cultures and were living somewhere in their knowledgeable geographic area, most probably in central Asia, ancient Persian empires,ancient middle east or any other civilization. Any word in language and its meaning is also connected to the time frame and geographic location of the word, when and where it was coined.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by maddhan1979 View Post
    There is an interesting word called "AAYAT", i am not sure of its origin. Use of AA in AA+YAT, seems to negate "YAT". If in use Indo European use "J" and "Y" are replaceable, then it becomes "AA+JAT", or negated form of "JAT". "AAYAT", means import, and negated form of "YAT" means not imported. What can it mean?

    If the word "AAYAT" is from Urdu, Urdu in linguistic historical sense is very new, then it can mean that the tribes which were known as "Jat" or "Yat", were already living in the place, where this word was coined. On the other side, if this is from ancient Persian or Arabic origin then it can also mean that the tribes known as "Jat" or "Yat", were known to these cultures and were living somewhere in their knowledgeable geographic area, most probably in central Asia, ancient Persian empires,ancient middle east or any other civilization. Any word in language and its meaning is also connected to the time frame and geographic location of the word, when and where it was coined.

    It can also mean that these are the people from ancient middle eastern, central asian and ancient Persian civilizations.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by maddhan1979 View Post
    There is an interesting word called "AAYAT", i am not sure of its origin. Use of AA in AA+YAT, seems to negate "YAT". If in use Indo European use "J" and "Y" are replaceable, then it becomes "AA+JAT", or negated form of "JAT". "AAYAT", means import, and negated form of "YAT" means not imported. What can it mean?

    If the word "AAYAT" is from Urdu, Urdu in linguistic historical sense is very new, then it can mean that the tribes which were known as "Jat" or "Yat", were already living in the place, where this word was coined. On the other side, if this is from ancient Persian or Arabic origin then it can also mean that the tribes known as "Jat" or "Yat", were known to these cultures and were living somewhere in their knowledgeable geographic area, most probably in central Asia, ancient Persian empires,ancient middle east or any other civilization. Any word in language and its meaning is also connected to the time frame and geographic location of the word, when and where it was coined.

    This has no religious significance but rather connection of tribal links and tribal migrations. Any religion relies on myths, philosophies, suppositions, etc, which mostly are far from scientific accuracy, science and the science of languages.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by maddhan1979 View Post
    It can also mean that these are the people from ancient middle eastern, central asian and ancient Persian civilizations.
    Ancient middle east at different time periods has been inhabited by Romans and other tribes from different part of the world.

  11. #11

    Two waves of migration in India

    India has seen two waves of migration and inward migration and an outward migration.

    Inward migration has been happening throughout ages while the last major outward migration happened around 7th-8th century AD. Lot of the tribes which migrated out of India at that time period migrated because of religious wars happening at the time period.

    Lot of the places in Europe can trace their names connected with this later migration from Indian subcontinent. The original IndoEuropean people migrated much earlier through inward migration, these were also the original people of so called Gypsies of Europe this is one reason as to why Romani language is also known as Indo European langauge.

  12. #12

    Time frame of Jat migration into Indian subcontinent

    What are the different time frames of Jat tribal migrations in Indian subcontinent?

  13. #13
    BC migrations based on ancient civilizations from middle east and other parts of central Asia+Alexander the great.
    Major migration as Scythian invasion in 4th century AD.
    Another inward migration into Indian subcontinent with the spread different religions.
    It seems these tribes were living more in farthest northern regions of Ancient India.
    Based on their geographic location it seems their migration is of very late origin and the roots of these tribes are in central Asia, ancient middle east.

    How and when they lost their Hunnish culture of living with the horse might be connected to indigenous Indian religion thought process and foreign thought processes that these tribes encountered when they arrived in India. Religious thought process and fort life thrives on static population and moving population on horses can not pay money and resources to religion and fort life.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by maddhan1979 View Post
    BC migrations based on ancient civilizations from middle east and other parts of central Asia+Alexander the great.
    Major migration as Scythian invasion in 4th century AD.
    Another inward migration into Indian subcontinent with the spread different religions.
    It seems these tribes were living more in farthest northern regions of Ancient India.
    Based on their geographic location it seems their migration is of very late origin and the roots of these tribes are in central Asia, ancient middle east.

    How and when they lost their Hunnish culture of living with the horse might be connected to indigenous Indian religion thought process and foreign thought processes that these tribes encountered when they arrived in India. Religious thought process and fort life thrives on static population and moving population on horses can not pay money and resources to religion and fort life.
    " Religious thought process and fort life thrives on static population and moving population on horses can not pay money and resources to religion and fort life.":

    Religious thought process and fort life thrives on static population, moving population on horses can not pay money and resources to religion and fort life.

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