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Thread: Totanism and family names

  1. #1

    Totanism and family names

    Totanism has been main symbolic recognition of people since ancient times as far as humans are able to trace their history.

    The earliest humans/nomads/travelers/hunter-gatherers recognized themselves with elements of nature.

    This thread is to explores these elements.

  2. #2
    One example is Rose which in other parts of the world and languages become Rose, Ross, Rossi, Ruus, Ruuska.

    While we know, Rose is a flower, it is possible that the early nomads/travelling people identified themselves with flower, animals, plants, etc.

    In Indo European langauges adding suffixes and prefixes to give meaning to a word is a known fact. Example in case of Rose can be Ruus+Ka, which could mean people from the Rose clan. Root word being Rose, i.e. name of the flower.



    http://www.jatland.com/home/Rose

  3. #3
    One must understand that in ancient times, people were travelling far off places and often due to wars, natural calamities, migrations, etc., people/groups/tribes, used to take different migration routes or settlements etc. Therefore it is possible that people with same clan names might have different pronunciations/recognition's etc. due to time, place, etc. of migration.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by maddhan1979 View Post
    One example is Rose which in other parts of the world and languages become Rose, Ross, Rossi, Ruus, Ruuska.

    While we know, Rose is a flower, it is possible that the early nomads/travelling people identified themselves with flower, animals, plants, etc.

    In Indo European langauges adding suffixes and prefixes to give meaning to a word is a known fact. Example in case of Rose can be Ruus+Ka, which could mean people from the Rose clan. Root word being Rose, i.e. name of the flower.



    http://www.jatland.com/home/Rose

    If IndoEuropean tribes ever migrated to Indian subcontinent, then one of the main recognition of these tribes and their ancient connections is through language and tribal connections/names.

    Rose family name is one such link:

    http://www.ancestry.com/name-origin?surname=rose

  5. #5
    One characteristic associated with the lives of Totesmic people/people associated with tribal roots/ancient roots has been big exploitation in the name of religion, wars, etc..

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by maddhan1979 View Post
    If IndoEuropean tribes ever migrated to Indian subcontinent, then one of the main recognition of these tribes and their ancient connections is through language and tribal connections/names.

    Rose family name is one such link:

    http://www.ancestry.com/name-origin?surname=rose
    This totasmic depiction can be seen through the dress of original tribes of these people, who often wear dresses having flowers, animals, plants, etc. on them.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by maddhan1979 View Post
    This totasmic depiction can be seen through the dress of original tribes of these people, who often wear dresses having flowers, animals, plants, etc. on them.
    Name of tribes with Indian plants, flowers, animals, etc. could have been result of mixture of the Indo European tribes with local tribes of India, and these recognition's could have carried to far off places across the world as the borders of ancient India were open for travel.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by maddhan1979 View Post
    Name of tribes with Indian plants, flowers, animals, etc. could have been result of mixture of the Indo European tribes with local tribes of India, and these recognition's could have carried to far off places across the world as the borders of ancient India were open for travel.
    There could have been two waves of tribal namification one which connected with native Indian tribes based on plants, animals, flowers,etc. and the other wave would have been adoption of this Indian tribal namification by tribes moving into India due to adoption of local religion and other local factors.

  9. #9
    This also means original names of these tribes could have had IndoEuropean names/roots, whereas the later assimilation, merging with local tribes could have created a later social ,economical and religious namification.

  10. #10
    Totasmic depcition of different tribes can also be seen in Indian religious cults/sects and religious following. These different tribes often in history identified themselves with animals, reptiles, plants, etc..

    Often the characteristics of animals also connected with the tribal recognition in ancient tribal culture, which was passed on through verbal transmission throughout ages. In a diverse society, which had a number of tribes from all across different nations throughout ages, tribes were often recognized by their characteristics or often the tribes would recognize themselves with different elements of nature.

  11. #11
    Jats seem to be losing the recognition of their ancient nomadic lifestyle due to religious cults. Women who were originally part of horse riding nomads(as one thought process says that only men migrated to the Indian subcontinent) seem to be getting more Indeanized and there is loss of original culture due to "Sari culture", while the original dress of these ancient women nomads included long skirts and pants like those of male counterparts. Men are also losing the original ancient dresses as there is no archaeological work has ever been done to trace out the original dressing/working/migrating clothes of these ancient tribes.

  12. #12
    Totanism could also be seen in the form of trade, food that people eat,etc. This difference could have been in the form of those who ate bread and those who ate rice.

    Aatta or flour was a staple food for many tribes which roamed ancient central Asia while those Indo European tribes which were living deep inside Mongolia and China could have been rice eaters. It is possible root words related with food could have carried forward with these tribes, as food in ancient trades was used in Barter system of trade.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by maddhan1979 View Post
    Totanism could also be seen in the form of trade, food that people eat,etc. This difference could have been in the form of those who ate bread and those who ate rice.

    Aatta or flour was a staple food for many tribes which roamed ancient central Asia while those Indo European tribes which were living deep inside Mongolia and China could have been rice eaters. It is possible root words related with food could have carried forward with these tribes, as food in ancient trades was used in Barter system of trade.

    Diets could also have changed with time as the original IndoEuropean tribes were inhibiting deep Monglolia, deep China, Siberia, etc. while their west ward migration towards central Asia could have been later phase of migration

    Same is the case with languages Turkic languages were spoken over a vast area by many tribes, so Turkic languages in ancient past were a "family of languages" and not a single language as seen now. So, were the tribes speaking these "family of languages".

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkic_languages

    There is still not much information about all the languages spoken in central Asia, an example seems to be of that of "Scythians", it seems they had their own language.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by maddhan1979 View Post
    Diets could also have changed with time as the original IndoEuropean tribes were inhibiting deep Monglolia, deep China, Siberia, etc. while their west ward migration towards central Asia could have been later phase of migration

    Same is the case with languages Turkic languages were spoken over a vast area by many tribes, so Turkic languages in ancient past were a "family of languages" and not a single language as seen now. So, were the tribes speaking these "family of languages".

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkic_languages

    There is still not much information about all the languages spoken in central Asia, an example seems to be of that of "Scythians", it seems they had their own language.

    Interestingly there are two Villages of Ata or aata origin in Haryana:

    https://www.jatland.com/home/Atta_Samalkha

    https://www.jatland.com/home/Atta_Samalkha


    and then we have a village called :


    http://wikiedit.org/India/Mirpur-Jattan/13277/

    Mirpur,,, which again connected with Mir or moor culture.

    and then there is :

    http://allindiafacts.com/places/utta...pur-jatan.html

    the word is Jatan the origin word seem to be : Jat + Han,

    the word tells about ancient horse riding nomads from central Asian.

    This could very well connect with Indo Scythian migration or Hapthalite migrations into ancient India.

    https://depts.washington.edu/silkroa...phthalite.html

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by maddhan1979 View Post
    Interestingly there are two Villages of Ata or aata origin in Haryana:

    https://www.jatland.com/home/Atta_Samalkha

    https://www.jatland.com/home/Atta_Samalkha


    and then we have a village called :


    http://wikiedit.org/India/Mirpur-Jattan/13277/

    Mirpur,,, which again connected with Mir or moor culture.

    and then there is :

    http://allindiafacts.com/places/utta...pur-jatan.html

    the word is Jatan the origin word seem to be : Jat + Han,

    the word tells about ancient horse riding nomads from central Asian.

    This could very well connect with Indo Scythian migration or Hapthalite migrations into ancient India.

    https://depts.washington.edu/silkroa...phthalite.html

    http://www.jatland.com/home/Atta_Mewat

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by maddhan1979 View Post
    Interestingly there are two Villages of Ata or aata origin in Haryana:

    https://www.jatland.com/home/Atta_Samalkha

    https://www.jatland.com/home/Atta_Samalkha


    and then we have a village called :


    http://wikiedit.org/India/Mirpur-Jattan/13277/

    Mirpur,,, which again connected with Mir or moor culture.

    and then there is :

    http://allindiafacts.com/places/utta...pur-jatan.html

    the word is Jatan the origin word seem to be : Jat + Han,

    the word tells about ancient horse riding nomads from central Asian.

    This could very well connect with Indo Scythian migration or Hapthalite migrations into ancient India.

    https://depts.washington.edu/silkroa...phthalite.html

    The original spelling could very well had been Jathan which is now misspelled as Jatan.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by maddhan1979 View Post
    Interestingly there are two Villages of Ata or aata origin in Haryana:

    https://www.jatland.com/home/Atta_Samalkha

    https://www.jatland.com/home/Atta_Samalkha


    and then we have a village called :


    http://wikiedit.org/India/Mirpur-Jattan/13277/

    Mirpur,,, which again connected with Mir or moor culture.

    and then there is :

    http://allindiafacts.com/places/utta...pur-jatan.html

    the word is Jatan the origin word seem to be : Jat + Han,

    the word tells about ancient horse riding nomads from central Asian.

    This could very well connect with Indo Scythian migration or Hapthalite migrations into ancient India.

    https://depts.washington.edu/silkroa...phthalite.html

    I do not know how much in the above mentioned sites is really true, but, some facts are common throughout different websites and knowledge banks.
    There has not been much archaeological work done on these people in Indian subcontinent one reason being religion itself, which suppresses the scientific and archaeological history of any country.

    On the other hand the words have been carried forward through generations, which are true to their origin or might be slightly misspelt due to linguistic differences.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by maddhan1979 View Post
    Interestingly there are two Villages of Ata or aata origin in Haryana:

    https://www.jatland.com/home/Atta_Samalkha

    https://www.jatland.com/home/Atta_Samalkha


    and then we have a village called :


    http://wikiedit.org/India/Mirpur-Jattan/13277/

    Mirpur,,, which again connected with Mir or moor culture.

    and then there is :

    http://allindiafacts.com/places/utta...pur-jatan.html

    the word is Jatan the origin word seem to be : Jat + Han,

    the word tells about ancient horse riding nomads from central Asian.

    This could very well connect with Indo Scythian migration or Hapthalite migrations into ancient India.

    https://depts.washington.edu/silkroa...phthalite.html

    Ancient feudal,tribal system was based on kingship or feudal mindset. Priest or religious people had their place and would often overthrow the real king to gain power and become king themselves, while the role of religion in ancient feudal/tribal society was not strong and if it got strong then the priest people would take over the kingship by overthrowing the king or taking the kingdom to war with another kingdom. This has been happening throughout ages in societies where religious mindset dominates over rational/educated mindset or the societies which are still leading a feudal system. While religious forces despite any religious would always favor people leading the religious or people from religious cultures, such systems do not last long and often are failure or wiped out through social unrest or revolts as seen throughout the history, whatever the religion that be.

  19. #19
    this culture of central asian nomads is not limited Jats but rather many other tribes and clans many of whom writing same clan names might be Jats as well, who were lost during wars, travel. natural calamities, etc.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by maddhan1979 View Post
    Interestingly there are two Villages of Ata or aata origin in Haryana:

    https://www.jatland.com/home/Atta_Samalkha

    https://www.jatland.com/home/Atta_Samalkha


    and then we have a village called :


    http://wikiedit.org/India/Mirpur-Jattan/13277/

    Mirpur,,, which again connected with Mir or moor culture.

    and then there is :

    http://allindiafacts.com/places/utta...pur-jatan.html

    the word is Jatan the origin word seem to be : Jat + Han,

    the word tells about ancient horse riding nomads from central Asian.

    This could very well connect with Indo Scythian migration or Hapthalite migrations into ancient India.

    https://depts.washington.edu/silkroa...phthalite.html

    The words like "budhana", seems to be combination of two words " Budh + han", this another symbol of totanism, which still carries on several hundred years after the death of "Buddha or buda" , as spelled in different dialects. In ancient times people/tribes were living far off places , to retain their ancient tribal links these tribes would name places with their ancient root words. As "Buda" was a great person of his time, it is possible that these ancient tribes although settled in different parts of the country/world carried "root words" maintain their ancient identity. This tells that "Buddha or Budda" came from the same tribe.

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