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Thread: Han, Pathan, Median tribes and Buzkashi

  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by maddhan1979 View Post
    Now a major question arises Why will any army choose a mountain sheep as their regimental symbol?

    The answer might be present in very ancient regimental formations in ancient armies and then there is word in English "Ramming"

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramming

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battering_ram


    Where were these tribes originally coming from? These tribes were coming from mountains for sure.

    Which mountains and what were the tribes?

    Ramming seems to be combination of two words: Ram+ming

    While the word "Ram", is an ancient European word and is a "noun", so based on language it seems this word came before the word "Ming" and is a root word.

    So it seems that word "Ram", comes from Eurasia and it could also mean that some languages developed far from their present day presence

  2. #22
    Ramming word could also predate building of Great wall of China.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by maddhan1979 View Post
    Ramming seems to be combination of two words: Ram+ming

    While the word "Ram", is an ancient European word and is a "noun", so based on language it seems this word came before the word "Ming" and is a root word.

    So it seems that word "Ram", comes from Eurasia and it could also mean that some languages developed far from their present day presence

    "Word origin of 'ram'

    Old English ramm; related to Old High German ram ram, Old Norse ramr fierce, rimma to fight"


  4. #24
    My maternal grandmother is of Legha Chauhan gotra and usually everyone in their village I.e Gahaur in Ludhiana Punjab, use Chouhan as their surname.
    similiarity between chauhans and Huns is uncanny, the entire village of Gahaur clan majorly has less facial hair(only moustache and growth on chin,a sign of Hun and mongol ancestry maybe?) their complexion is very red and fair and are of medium stature that is 5'10 and around unlike the neighbouring villages of Ayali and Braicha where Grewal's and Braich jats are well over 6'0.
    SIKH BY FAITH AND A JATT BY BLOOD.

  5. #25
    There is some explanation done using the word "Han/Hun", in different threads.

    "Han/Hun", does not just seem to be connected with only mongoloid people, rather undivided Eurasia and ancient countries with closed boundaries like those of today seem to have created various different types of civilizations in ancient past, where people came from different migration/trade/war routes and were riding horses as a means of transport. Therefore the word "Han/Hun", seems to depict various civilizations/tribes throughout ancient history.

    There were different types of Hun's/Han, at different point of time in history, as discovered in archaeology/history.
    Last edited by maddhan1979; June 11th, 2017 at 08:20 PM.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by maddhan1979 View Post
    "Word origin of 'ram'

    Old English ramm; related to Old High German ram ram, Old Norse ramr fierce, rimma to fight"

    Is there any other root word besides the word "Ram" in the above stated languages , which replaces "Ram", while the meaning remains same?

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by maddhan1979 View Post
    Ramming seems to be combination of two words: Ram+ming

    While the word "Ram", is an ancient European word and is a "noun", so based on language it seems this word came before the word "Ming" and is a root word.

    So it seems that word "Ram", comes from Eurasia and it could also mean that some languages developed far from their present day presence



    "Ram", word seems to be coming from Old English roots, a language written in "Runes".

    "Old English is a "Old English is a West Germanic language, developing out of Ingvaeonic (also known as North Sea Germanic) dialects from the 5th century."


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Germanic_language

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_English


    Kindly add any corrections to the above stated facts if u have any?

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by maddhan1979 View Post
    "Ram", word seems to be coming from Old English roots, a language written in "Runes".

    "Old English is a "Old English is a West Germanic language, developing out of Ingvaeonic (also known as North Sea Germanic) dialects from the 5th century."


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Germanic_language

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_English


    Kindly add any corrections to the above stated facts if u have any?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Germanic_languages

    "The North Germanic languages make up one of the three branches of the Germanic languages, a sub-family of the Indo-European languages, along with the West Germanic languages and the extinct East Germanic languages."

    Kindly make corrections if any.

  9. #29
    rather "kindly make any more additions"

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by maddhan1979 View Post
    Mountain sheep which is shown as a symbol of these people depict people coming from centralEurasia, people of lost armies living in mountains e.g. Alexander the great's army people left behind, ancient tribes, ancient European tribes, etc. Many of these regiments have roots in archaeological discovery of a common past by British and other western historical discoveries done in Asian and Eurasian subcontinent.

    http://www.britishmilitarybadges.co....cap-badge.html

    These ancient tribes followed totemic symbols or rather totemic recognition inform of animals, plants and other natural elements that depicted their life.
    Last edited by maddhan1979; June 4th, 2017 at 02:49 PM.

  11. #31
    In ancient tribal context which color was the favorite of these tribes?

    How did these tribes represented their original life?

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by maddhan1979 View Post
    Is there any other root word besides the word "Ram" in the above stated languages , which replaces "Ram", while the meaning remains same?

    Although there is another meaning which might hold much older meaning of the word.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by maddhan1979 View Post
    Now a major question arises Why will any army choose a mountain sheep as their regimental symbol?

    The answer might be present in very ancient regimental formations of ancient armies and then there is word in English "Ramming"

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramming

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battering_ram


    Where were these tribes originally coming from? These tribes were coming from mountains for sure.

    Which mountains and what were the tribes?

    The above stated meaning comes more in the form of a "verb", which seems to be defined by natural generation of a word, while other identities use words for its own use such as "Ramadan", this word seems to be made out of following words: "Ram,a,dan", "Ram" meaning can be same or related with name of an animal/human being,(Ram is a root word of a language), name of a place, etc, "a" becomes negation and "dan", means sacrifice or giving away, "dan" word, seems to be of some linguistic origin? So, in ancient times a "Ram", could have had a different meaning. There seems to be a difference between artificially created meaning and natural generation of word at a given point of time in history.

    So we see a natural generation of word and an artificial generation of word.
    Last edited by maddhan1979; June 8th, 2017 at 07:04 AM.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by maddhan1979 View Post
    There is an ancient sport played in Central Asia, Afghanistan and other countries which trace their origins to central Asian nomadic tribes, the sport is called:


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buzkashi


    This sport seems to be of very ancient origin probably dating back to Median tribes.
    Interestingly the word Pathan seems to be comprised of two words Path + Han. The word Path gives rise to another word Pattha in Urdu, i guess.
    It seems that the people writing the family names "Han" predate the word Pathan. Kurds which are also horse riding people connect with people of Media as their predecessors.

    Words like Duhan, Trihan, Chauhan seems to be battlefield troop movement terminology, there are lot of similar words which form lot of family names.


    The above stated sport seems to come from ancient horse riding people trying to save their injured or dead people during wars that took place on horseback for hundreds of years in central Asia, Afghanistan, etc. The beheaded sheep symbolized an injured person in pain, riding a horse in injury causes more pain but the injured person needs to be carried back to the base camp for recovery, shifting the injured person from one horse to another was necessary as horse would get tired with two warriors on a long distance all these events are symbolized by movement of sheep by people on horseback . This is an ancient sport where skills of horsemen and horses were tested in a war like situation to prepare for real war casualty retrieval.
    Why a sheep? because these tribesmen were mainly central Asian horse riding animal/sheep rearers.


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medes


    It seems that Pathans, Pashtuns, ancient Median tribes men, etc., come from the same roots.
    All have been horse riding people have been recognized in different cultures at different points of time with same/similar words. A simple example is the word "Ashvameadh", which stands for people who perform horse sacrifice in Indian context directly connect with Scythian tribes of central Asia. While "Meadh", which in Indian context is recognized by a work these tribes performed. The local people/ tribes living in India would have connected the word ""Medh/Meadh", with the work these tribes performed when these tribes arrived in Indian subcontinent, while in central Asia upper Iran these tribes were ancient people residing in that region for a much considerable amount of time. This shows that these tribes migrated at certain point of time to Indian subcontinent. This also means that although these tribes were from the same roots and these tribes came at different periods of time as warriors, travelling tradesmen, soldiers who were lost, tribes which were displaced, etc.


    The linguistic context/recognition of these tribes is very ancient in India, that means that these tribes were living, travelling in Indian subcontinent since ancient times. Can these tribes be recognized through the same work even today? Hard to say, because of numerous kingdoms, wars, etc., identities could have changed over a period of long time. These tribes could be recognized through the accumulation of people, as these ancient warring clans stuck together during ancient wars so they were able to save their ancient identity in some form or other. Horses have been lost by these tribes and replaced by "Hal", which means "solution in Hindi mathematics and an added wealth to religion and business" and so have been their traditional way of life.

    Word "Meadow": http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dict...english/meadow

    Where is it coming from?
    What does it mean in ancient tribal terminology and especially ancient tribal general life/alliances/war terminology, etc.?

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by maddhan1979 View Post
    Word "Meadow": http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dict...english/meadow

    Where is it coming from?
    What does it mean in ancient tribal terminology and especially ancient tribal general life/alliances/war terminology, etc.?

    Life and identities were mostly explained by these tribes in the life these tribes led.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by maddhan1979 View Post
    Life and identities were mostly explained by these tribes in the life these tribes led.

    Life for these tribes could be compared with life of red Indian tribes of Amerika or any other tribes leading nomadic life.

    If i remember correctly Red Indian tribes of Amerika had names and designations related with events, places, animals, etc., in life.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by maddhan1979 View Post
    Life for these tribes could be compared with life of red Indian tribes of Amerika or any other tribes leading nomadic life.

    If i remember correctly Red Indian tribes of Amerika had names and designations related with events, places, animals, etc., in life.

    Free horses and grazing animals were the main feature for these tribes. So Emporer represented himself with the largest area in which his animal and the people moved freely, this in English term is known as "Pasture/any other similar word", as the realm of the king was upto the place, where animals could graze. Languages spoken by these tribes would have been different and were most probably proto IndoEuropean language or some other language and the word for "Pasture", could have been different as well.
    Animal which provided warm clothes and food was the totemic symbol for these tribes.
    Last edited by maddhan1979; July 3rd, 2017 at 06:48 PM.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by maddhan1979 View Post
    Now a major question arises Why will any army choose a mountain sheep as their regimental symbol?

    The answer might be present in very ancient regimental formations of ancient armies and then there is word in English "Ramming"

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramming

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battering_ram


    Where were these tribes originally coming from? These tribes were coming from mountains for sure.

    Which mountains and what were the tribes?

    Both "Battering Ram" and "Ramming", seem to be verbs and came out of war maneuvers in ancient times.

  19. #39
    This is an archaeological view and then, then there are other views
    Last edited by maddhan1979; July 10th, 2017 at 09:26 PM.

  20. #40
    Origin of these tribes might be in ancient China, Mongolia, Siberia or parts of central Asia. Southern migrations might be in late history of these tribes.
    Last edited by maddhan1979; July 16th, 2017 at 07:26 AM.

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