Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 1 2
Results 21 to 38 of 38

Thread: Reservation - Do we Need it ?

  1. #21
    Email Verification Pending
    Login to view details.
    it is not that easy. the quotes sound good but real life is not that perfect. winners complain and complainers win all the time. it has always been like that. people walk over you take advantage of you even though you may be right and many times there is nothing you can do. look at politicians. they complain and they win. it is win at all cost no matter what type of world. there is no righteousness. hook or by crook. and it has alwyas been like that.

  2. #22
    Email Verification Pending
    Login to view details.
    We do need reservation in Haryana, UP and in Punjab. There are atleast 12 Million of us out there but look at our representation. As Agricultural Land is shrinking, We need to be more in Goverment positions, specially the policy making. Look at all these Brahman, Bania and Punjabis. Our people should be moving to USA, UK, AUST and other Countries and we should be helping those like we Jats help each other in Army.

  3. #23
    Ajit Singh (Aug 01, 2001 09:50 p.m.):
    it is not that easy. the quotes sound good but real life is not that perfect. winners complain and complainers win all the time. it has always been like that. people walk over you take advantage of you even though you may be right and many times there is nothing you can do. look at politicians. they complain and they win. it is win at all cost no matter what type of world. there is no righteousness. hook or by crook. and it has alwyas been like that.
    Dear Ajit,
    Agree with you that We do not live in a perfect world. But it is also true that to achieve any thing you do require focus and determination. When people take to complaining their focus is more on finding faults than doing any thing constructive. It is not surprising that the country is caught up in a quick fix quick sand. There are no easy solutions. But to achieve any thing you do have to make an effort. Effort alone is not enough ofcourse other things also contribute to success or failure of a task. We need to unite and focus on really important issues, politics is only one of them. With our numbers in a united mode we will be in a position to negotiate the best possible deal. There is a saying that "there are too many chiefs and not enough Indians" nothing gets done. In our case probably "there are too many Indians and not enough Chiefs".

    By the way politicians do not really complain, those are crocodile tears they shed for the benefit of public, gain their sympathy and vote. Complaining is left to voters while they are busy winning. You may not agree on this point but I think good and bad people are in every profession. However every profession has influence on the personality of individual. Politicians profession is that they have to deal with public and tell them what will get them vote. In half a century if voter did not understand this simple logic then he deserves what he gets. If we deserve better we will get better. But how ?
    That is a million dollar question. Certainly not by complaining.

    Best Regards!
    Shubha Chand Sheorayan

  4. #24
    Ram K. Hooda (Aug 15, 2001 11:53 a.m.):
    We do need reservation in Haryana, UP and in Punjab. There are atleast 12 Million of us out there but look at our representation. As Agricultural Land is shrinking, We need to be more in Goverment positions, specially the policy making. Look at all these Brahman, Bania and Punjabis. Our people should be moving to USA, UK, AUST and other Countries and we should be helping those like we Jats help each other in Army.
    My Dear Ram,

    12 in 1000 is not a significant number,thus it is unlikely that it is going to happen in the near future unless those 12 say the same thing. Even when those 12 say the same thing it should not be reservation, because there are simply not enough jobs in the Government. The emphasis must be on Development of those 12 to a level when they can compete globally. As you know some of our Jat kids are doing very well but it is only a small minority.Not even 1 in 12. You have my full and unconditional agreement when you talk about supporting each other. We all must support each other whether it is a Jat or an Indian when overseas. The charity begins at home so let us do some thing constructive. Through this website itself we can provide assistance and information to those who need it. Concentrate on one step at a time and soon we will be making progress.

    Best Wishes.

    Shubha Chand Sheorayan

  5. #25
    Well friends its a really debatable question. Obiviously the people who are search of jobs will like reservation. But lets take a pragmatic view of things by asking ourselves some questions.
    Ch.Chottu Ram lived and died to prove that we are a superior caste and if he was alive today he would have opposed it and would have preferred to die then live as a person under reservation. Those who have read book by Nonika Datta " Forming an identity : a social history of jats " can appreciate it. Arya Samjist Movement could get acceptability among jats because people like Maharshi Dayanand Saraswati distributed ritual cotton thread to sell Arya Samaj among jats to convey that jats are equivalent to Brahmins.
    But let think Will it label us as low caste in Hindu caste structure which is an amorphous concept ?
    Yes it will lower our status.
    Let assume we still ask for reservation and it is accepted. Will it really benefit Jats in terms of Jobs ?
    Answer is NO when seen in the context of Indian Economic policies pursued in 90s by all in the Indian political specturm left or right. Benefit of reservation means only govt. jobs. But sadly the size of governments whether its central or state governments is dwindling day by day and will continue to move in that direction. In a liberalised climate lot of activites which were preserve of state are being shifted to non governmental sector where reservation does not matter. So even number of jobs in government will be very less in number in coming years. Hence the real benefit in terms of number may be insignificant.
    So better option will be not to ask for reservation but continue the task of social,educattional and economic development of jat community and help youth make a wider choice in terms of career . Small sops of reservation will degrade jat community as whole and will give insignificant number of jobs to jat youth
    vkd

  6. #26
    RESERVATION-MUST.HOW TO GET IT??????????
    Dear friend since you started this topic.jats got the reservation in Rajshthan, up, mp,Delhi etc how to get it in haryana ,panjab.hp. J&k etc /???????????????????
    reservation is going to stay for long time. weather we like it or not, for or against. All jats must get it to survive, no other way

  7. #27
    Email Verification Pending
    Login to view details.
    I strongly support any move that could possibly lead to the betterment of my community, and reservation for Jats would most certainly do it. If other less deserving people are benefitting from it, why not Jats.
    I know that its not going to be like SC/ST reservation and the number of Jats actually benefitting from it might not be large, but
    even if one Jat lands in a good position because of reservation, think about how many other Jat brethrens can get help from that one person.

  8. #28
    Email Verification Pending
    Login to view details.
    Dear Jat Brothers and Sisters,
    Rise up and accept the challenge to move up in the society. Let's not rely on reservations or some other back doors to realize our goals. We are a coomunity with high self esteem and will-power. We don't want and should not want anybody's mercy to find our place in the society. We must not loose our self respect in any case.

    I am against cast-based reservation.
    Best Regards,

  9. #29
    Email Verification Pending
    Login to view details.
    hi everybody
    well it is very easy to say that reservation
    is not required while sitting in ac rooms working in front of a sleek workstation.
    But for the jat youths armed with college degree and out in the job market which is
    ruthless it is like 'to be or not to be'.
    We often complain of increasing participation of jat youth but dare we look at the reasons behibd it.
    And no I am not talking about jobs of kind "PEON" types .... I am talking jobs which lift the general economic standard.
    I am talking about sittuations like UPSC civil services where seats are few and competition is immense.Think of a jat boy who got the Allied services but probably could have got foreign service had reservation been there.ANd now think of a ahir or gujjar who is n't even worth of a job of section officer and becomes DM because of reservation.
    And yes let's get selfish...it's not jats' duty to see that free and fair society prevails... but it is our
    'dharma' to see that our community gets the best deal,as they say "Goals justify means"
    It will not matter for us who live in metropolis/overseas but for those underdogs in backwaters it is life saving drug,,,and for community and instrument to grow and mind numbing speed.

  10. #30
    Email Verification Pending
    Login to view details.
    We don't need it but can be used as an extra spoon of sugar in a tea sometimes...

  11. #31
    Email Verification Pending
    Login to view details.

    Positive Discrimination: A Mixed Bag...

    I have reviewed most of the comments here, some in favor, others downright against, and yet some, like myself, somewhere in the middle. Because I have not been able to take a stand either way, I am simply posting some thoughts.

    In the last few decades countries as diverse as Australia, South Africa, and United States, have introduced policies of positive discrimination. The aim of such policies is to reduce inequaltites of so-called historically disadvantaged groups, and fulfill the constitutional committment to democracy and equality, so that the oppressed can acquire access to education, employment and sacrce resources.

    Agreed, positive discrimination does works towards building a democratic, egalitarian and humane social order, but conversely, by institutionalizing affermative action in favor of any one group, the government effectively discriminates against others, alienates them, feeds their sense of grievance and can contribute to a growing militancy without necessarily helping the most needy. Affirmative action in general is often counterproductive. Preferential policies foster the values of solidarity based on the cult of victim hood-instead of thrift, hard work, and self- improvement.

    Then again, within the "disadvanteged" groups receiving preferential treatment, benefits are captured by the better educated, more articulate and more politically skilled elite. Although the programs are meant to reduce the eliminate intergroup disparities, the group leaders become dependent on the perpetuation of perceived disparities.

    Furthermore, the disadvantaged groups in India are vastly hetrogeneous. First of all the Constitution places the two most disadvantged sections, (ST), and (ST) in the higher footing than the others as far as the affirmative action in concerned. Both are entitled to representation in all legislatures in proportion to their numbers/jobs in the government, and admission to educational institutions, both at the central government and the states. Priority is accorded them over the, Other Backward Class" (OBCs), in accessing benefits.

    The OBCs themselves are not homogeneous category. At one end are the dominant, landowning castes who own a sizable amount of land available locally, are politically influential, and are increasingly represented in the govt., while, at the other end are numerically small artisanal, laboring, and servicing castes, more entitled to the benefits and concessions which the dominant castes are receiving. Once again, this perception is bound to play in favor of the latter, than the former.

    Reservation is a paradoxical situation where, on the one hand , govt. tries to diminish the importance of such caste attributes as untouchability, and low social status by way of reservations, while on the other hand, it lends official recognition to caste as the criteria for eligibility. In this way, reservations have created a vested interest in the survival of caste. Over fourty years, after the formal abolition of caste, caste is more alive than ever in India!

    While positive discrimination in India has had considerable success, both, symbolically, and substantially, it has it's negative side. First of all, there has been too much reliance on "reservation" per se, and it has not been supplemented by attempts to train the targeted beneficiaries to actually benefit from access. Even more importantly, the failure to universalize the primary education, in spite of the existence of a constitutional directive to achieve it.

    Because I don't know the exact provisons for Jats as OBCs, I am unable to decipher the relevance. If it renders no tangible gains to Jats, and allows discrmination within the OBC sub-groups, my biggest fear is that the truly needy may not benefit from this controversial policy. On the contrary, it may be the only national level policy that will prove as a viable option for the Jats to change their status quo.

    Sujata

  12. #32
    It is good idea to have it.

  13. #33
    Email Verification Pending
    Login to view details.
    Just because we would get some seats reserved in schools/colleges or any other place would you really like to be called a "Scheduled Caste" or a "Scheduled Tribe" ? Personally, I wouldn't...

  14. #34
    Email Verification Pending
    Login to view details.
    There is another angle to this issue quite distinct to employment opportunities. It is the issue of connectivity and its impact on developing societies that are struggling to achieve change without adequate resources and quality management.

    The institutions of the state and its corporations, undertakings etc are also indirect seats of power with a potential to impact on change in the form of catalysts. Therefore developing societies that are not represented in these institutions lose many opportunities other than direct employment.

    Connectivity plays a very powerful role in shortening time lines in getting things done and who better than a person from your community to facilitate the short straight route to getting things done without getting lost in the maze of red tape, disinformation and parasitical touts as also corrupt freelancers within these institutions.

    The people from your community who serve in these organisations do act as informal agents of change and pioneering pathfinders. Who amongst us in a difficult situation and in unfamiliar circumstances has not benefited from a spontaneous act of support, advice and timely intervention by a fellow clansman a jat brother or sister. I know I have. I am grateful for this connectivity because below a certain level in society it is often the only currency that supports the thirst to succeed and nurtures the appetite for change.

    For these reasons too, I believe we need to support reservation for our people, not as a backward community but in the spirit of one facing serious disadvantage.

  15. #35
    Email Verification Pending
    Login to view details.
    Sonia:

    With due respect, "Just because we would get some seats reserved in schools/ colleges" (that will open doors for admission to educational institutions, access to employment, and other scarce resources) is p-r-e-t-t-y damn good reason for caste-based discrimination, or reservation.

    With regard to being called a "Scheduled Caste" or a "Scheduled Tribe....?" My dear sister, have you ever stood next to a meagerly peon or a humble security guard/ gateman in an air-conditioned, posh building, and realized what it feels like? It feels worse than an elite, well-suited, tie-clad schedule caste executive, who commands you with a sense of pride and dignity. Do you read schedule caste written on his forehead, or does his mannerism suggest he is a schedule caste? On the other hand, sure, our dear humble Jat peon can be immediately distinguished as some one who may not have had enough resources to further his life. Therein lies the distinction between a corporate CEO and a corporate night watchman, and the key is education, not the caste!

    One more point to ponder, at human level, just how do you differentiate a schedule caste from a high caste? Do they have one less arm or leg? Are they humans of lesser Gods? My dear, in the end, we all pass before God in a single file, with a destiny peculiarly our own -- but that's another chapter... beyond the realm of this discussion!

    Of course you reserve the right to your opinion!

    Sujata

  16. #36
    Email Verification Pending
    Login to view details.
    In continuation....

    Gandhi called himself a "Harijan" - "Hari" meaning God, and "Jan" meaning man/woman, or god's people. If the father of our nation, whom the world reveres, can identify himself as a schedule caste, I would consider it an honor to stand next to him in line, no matter whatever that implies (yes, the lowly schedule caste)! A caste doesn't make us superior or inferior, our deeds do!

    Sujata

  17. #37

    BLACK SPOT ON THE CASTE NAMED JAT

    TO DECLARE JAT OBC IS A CLEVER STEP OF SOME POLITICAL PEOPLE TO SHOW JATS DOWNWARD.
    I DON'T THINK IT WILL HELP IN GETTING JOB IN ANY WAY BECAUSE THERE IS A HUGE AMOUNT OF CASTES INCLUDED IN OBC LIST.
    THE ONLY OUTPUT OF IT WILL BE THAT WE SHELL BE CALLED AS AN OBC & WE WILL LOOSE OUR SOCIAL STATUS WHICH OUR ELDERS GAVE US.
    WHAT WOULD BE THE CONDITION OF MAHARAJA SURAJMAL IF HE CAME TO KNOW THAT JATS ARE GOING TO BE IN OBC CATEGORY.
    TO GET THE SUCCESS HARD WORK IS THE PRIME REQUIRMENT BECAUSE NO BIG DIFFERENCE BETWEEN OBC & GENERAL.

    **ONCE I WAS GIVING MY ENGINEERING ENTRANCE EXAM & I AM THE ONLY JAT AT THE CENTRE AT ALLAHABAD.
    A MAN CAME TO ROOM & ANNOUNCED ABOUT RESERVATION & TOLD ME TO GIVE MY NAME AS I WAS THE ONLY JAT THERE. BUT I FULLY REFUSED IT & TOLD IN THE CLASSROOM THAT JAT DON'T NEED ANY RESERVATION. I HAVE GOT A RANK TO GET ADDMISSION ON FREE SEAT. IF I WOULD TAKE THE OFFER I WOULD SURELY BE EVEN IN A VERY PRESTIGIOUS COLLEGE BUT IT DOES NOT AFFECT ME BECAUSE I HAVE GOT VERY GOOD PERCENTAGE IN MY COLLEGE EXAMS IN 80'S. I BELIEVE IN MY HARD WORK &
    I WILL DO GOOD I BELIEVE.**

    ON BEING A GENERAL CATEGORY CHEERS UP YOU FROM YOUR INSIDE & I AM SURE YOU WILL DO WHAT YOU ARE NOT EVEN EXPECTING.
    THERE IS NO ANY RESPECTABLE STATUS OF YADAVS IN THE SOCIETY & NOR A SO MUCH PEOPLES FROM THEM ARE IN GOOD SERVICES. I DON'T THINK THEY HAVE GOT ANYTHING FROM OBC EXCEPT LOOSING OF STATUS.
    JATS HAVE A VERY BIG & ROYAL STATUS & WE MUST NOT EVEN THINK TO COMPROMISING WITH IT. WHAT WE MUST DO IS TO CHEER UP, HELP FARMERS OF THE VILLAGES & WHO ARE STUDYING MAKE THOSE JATS CONCENTRATING TOWARDS THERE GOAL & I KNOW THAT JATS CAN DO AAAAAANYTHING THEY WANT TO.
    JATS HAVE A VERY SHARP MIND ONLY THEY HAVE TO USE IT. NOTHING IS IMPOSSIBLE. WE SHOULD INCREASE THE HIGHT OF THE STATUS NOT TO EXPOIL IT.

    **IF ANYONE CAN SUGGESS IT TO THE ANY POLOTICAL POWER I REQUEST HIM TO MAKE JATS COUNTED IN GENERAL CATEGORY(WHERE THEY ARE IN OBC) & I AM SURE THIS WILL BE THE SUCCESS GATE FOR THE JAT COMMUNITY. THIS CAN BE DONE IN JAT MAHASABHAS.**

    BEST OF LUCK TO ALL JATS

  18. #38
    Hi all,

    **STRONGLY OPPOSE IT **

    The difference between OBC & GENERAL for any govt. service or addmission is

    = 20 - 19
    Because in OBC there is also a big crowd even may be bigger than in GENERAL. Very few caste are included now in general. only relaxation in age is there no other big advantage.

    SO WE HAVE ADVANTAGE = 1 POINT


    Now as we will loose our social status & this can mently affect us(be practical) so the self the difference in self respect in OBC & GENERAL is
    15 - 20

    Because being an OBC one's self respect goes fallen down when other call him as OBC & if he is a JAT then it may create bigger problem & he may divert from his main goal. Why in any exam general score more why not OBC & SC/ST because they are cheered up by their inner respect.

    SO WE HAVE DISADVANTAGE = 5 POINTS

    SO THE DISADVANTAGE IS MORE BY 4 POINTS.


    SO OVERALL WE WILL HAVE ONLY DISADVANTAGE BY THIS.

    I am not from a very big family but know what I have to do & I believe in my work not in reservation like stupid offers from govt.

    DO hard work success will be yours
    - RAHUL

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •