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Thread: Reservation - Do we Need it ?

  1. #1
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    Reservation - Do we Need it ?


    I'd like to look at 2 aspects here.

    one. in haryana, Jats are abt 25% of the population. and 9% of the government jobs. education standards are abysimal.

    two. in '79 and again in '90, the Jats (and their leaders) refused to be included for reservation, despite being in a (political)position to do so. by 99 however, the need was being felt.

    while getting reservation, the social standing suffers. however, the additional jobs would be very welcome.

    its a difficult call, but i do think that overall, it is needed for now.

    what do the others think ??


  2. #2
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    No reservation needed!

    It is wrong to assume that getting reservation is a sure way to achieve anything substantial for a particular community. The Jats in rural areas realizing that they have no future in agriculture were slowly but surely moving on to join the services sector as Profeesionals. What reservation will do now is to bring down the morale that was slowly being built up.

  3. #3
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    Do jats need reservations?

    Let's be practical, don't attach any stigma/ego with the word 'reservation'. Majority of the Jat community lives in poor conditions. Travel to some villages, the financial condition and the facilities/opportunities available to those poor families and one will fell the dire need of reservation to them for their upliftment. Yes, i, for a while, subscribeto the EGOISTIC declaration that we don't NEED reservation, but this is one instance where our ego, of which we are very proud of, can be harmful in a pragmatic sense. Historically, jats have always been exploited( by other cunny communities) by provoking them( i have heared during my chilhood in my village , some non-jat saying to a jat ' hey its question of your EGO' ,and the jat going brainwashed after that) to the extent that they stop seeing the rationale behind any activity and just stop seeing beyond ego.
    So let's be practical, not emotional, in this matter. See how much other communities, like Yadavs, have prospered because of reservation.
    Some well to do Jats like us do not need reservation, but our poor brothers living in villages do need reservation.

  4. #4
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    Emotions are bad agreed but what about morale!

    Hi all,

    When i meant morale i meant the feeling that only education can be a real channel to access some prosperity. People in the villages realizing that there is no future in agriculture wanted their kids to study hard and do well.(This I noticed when I went to my native village, there is a distinct shift of attitude). What reservation will do is to assure the children a job that's all. They are not gonna achieve anything. Realizing that anyway they will be working as a peon.

  5. #5
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    Re : morale and reservation....

    Reservation is just a mean to offset the difference between opportunities levels available to the poors ( specially the villagers) and the previledged ones; and NOT a mean to safeguard a peon's job. To say otherwise, even a peon's job is a better option for someone who will otherwise is running from piller to post to get two ends meal.
    Look at the Yadavs, see the change the community's overall economic status. They are not just PEONS!
    And morale has nothing to do with reservation. If any then the reservation should lift the morale as it provides a better opportunity to reach higher levels.

    -Rajesh Sindhu

  6. #6
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    Yes and No

    may be in rajasthan reservation might be actually required , where the jats are inhabiting an area with low fertility and irrigation potential.

    In haryana, the state that the community is in is our own doing. we have gone down in the last ten-fifteen years and have no one to blame but ourselves.
    It will be an escapist tendency were we to ask for reservation in haryana. it would be better if the community could act in a united manner and work for development, get it out of the goverenment; rather than fighting for reservation.
    what we need is an educated and mature leader, whom the public supports.

  7. #7
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    A Big no to reservation

    i know that reservation gives jobs ,but how many? either give us reservation like SC/ST which really makes difference..OBC reservation is just for name sake ,which really hurts your ego.What u think just giving reservation will work way.Try to think like jat sikhs..they r also jats but where they r now because they really worked hard.They dont need reservation.
    They dont want to leave there farms and go out for jobs.I have seen jats in cities also they r from well to do families but there childreen r spoiled and what ever there parents did to bring the family up is smashed by them.
    reservation is not going to solve this problem.
    see punjabis they came from pakistan and where they r now,they were the people who worked in our field but see where r they now and where we have led ourselves to.
    BEST SOLUTION IS STUDY AND COME TO USA,canada,australia ,england like gujratis and sardars.
    This is the only solution.

  8. #8
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    reservation is need of time , its not a choice

    what is reservation.... ,
    its kind of a facility in ur ur reach ,which u can use if u need to ... if u donot want, u r most welcome NOT to use it ....but it shld be in ur approach so that anyone , who needs , gets this facility.

    how many of us have said no to reservation till now....what ever we got...what about domicile reservation , for getting admissions in professional colleges , we all had our state domicile ready ....what is this ..its reservation for you, since u r state resident.

    why we all used domicile reservation , we would have welcomed some more competetion by writing that i m r not from delhi or haryana, or UP...
    why u did , and now after getting that reservation and reaching to this point , we r thinking that is reservation required ??

    is there anyone , who has gone the harder way if he/she had a choice ,till now in life...

    what about Mr Devi Lal , writing off all the bank loans for farmers, that is a reservation since u r incapable to repay the loan ..., this was welcomed open heartedly , by everyone in haryana....
    tell me name of any person , who said no to that favor....and practically paid back the money to bank even when his loan was paid off by govt......

    to my beleif , whoever has used reservation at any point in life looses his right to decide that whether this is good for others or not....

    i welcome someone telling me that , reservation did this harm to him....please tell me , if you have these words...if no then do something practical for our people, they r really in bad shape as of now..

  9. #9
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    Reservation for Jats

    Jats as a caste is high in the social ladder but in the economic aspect it is a backward class, especially in the states of Delhi, Rajasthan,Jammu,Uttranchal.
    Politically and economically we have had to fight our own battles and OBC reservation would change that as it has done for other classes similar to ours.

  10. #10
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    Caste based reservation in general is NO

    I think the caste based reservation is one of the biggest misfortune of this country. I see no sense at all in this. how the hell can you give priviledge to someone just because he's born in X caste, no matter he may be filty rich and has all the means and amenities in this world. We can not abolish caste system at all from India but we should try to lessen the divide we have between them in order for our country to flourish and reservation is currently the biggest mean of dividing them further.

    Who can forget the riots after mandal commission recommendations were implemented. That step alone caused so much hatred for each other among hindus and gave rise to stupid leaders like Laloo, Mulayam singh, Mayawati etc etc.

    There can be reservation based on some other criteris like household income. There can be reservation in education to provide equal opportunities to those who cannot afford it but after that jobs should be given on merit. One can realize the pain of those students who do all the hard work but are denied just because they are from upper castes. It's same as giving jobs taking bribes, or bacause someone is someone's kin.

    Again, Caste based revervation is as bad for our society as corruption, dowry etc. I oppose it in principle. I would like to see it abolished completely. Now, till its there whether Jats should be included, maybe yes, in particular regions like rajasthan.

    But before that I think Jats have to change themselves. We all know the kind of emphasis given to education in rural Jat families. We remain stuck to agriculture or maximum doing small businesses in villages. Otherwise, I think Jats had been quiet well to do in areas like haryana, Delhi, western U.P. But if you want to feed all your generations on no matter how big the piece of land you have (which most jats had), it's impossible.

  11. #11
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    Caste based reservation ....

    reservation itself is bad....
    caste based resevation is bad.....
    caste based reservation is dividing the country...
    reservation is spreading hatred...
    caste system should be abolished ....
    equal opportunities should be provided to everyone....
    economical inequality should be abolished...
    i have been hearing these slogans since my childhood, on every plateform.
    But i have also been seeing one more thing: the reservation, specially the caste based reservation, is increasing since my childhood.

    So where is the fact in these contradictions? what has happened in reality ??? Everyone agrees to be against reservation in 'principle'. But who the hell cares about principles in Indian politics. Cleverer and practical people are enjoying the undue benefits of reservation; and those who still dream about 'principles' and 'idealism' are suffering, getting exploited day by day. Its a practical world, not a ideal world; and lets be practical. Survival of the most realistic is mantra in contemporary India. Talks about principles look good only in books, not in real life of today's indian society.
    And to be realistic, i do support the reservation of jats as long as caste reservation is prevalent in India. And i will be against the reservation when no one else is enjoying it. And of course why should jats take unrealistic stand of opposing it when other castes are enjoying it.


  12. #12
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    Idealism and Reality

    in an ideal world, we would not need reservation. but here we have a situation where people around us get the benefit, very often when they do not deserve to, while we take the moral high ground and get nowhere.

    most of us discussing here have done fairly well for ourselves. but look back in the villages and the situation is pathetic. with the land holdings as tiny as they are, nothing more than survival is possible.

    if i had the option to utilize reservation, i would reject it (for myself) simply coz i do not deserve/need it. but if someone who is finding it diff to support a family needs reservation, should we be sitting here and denying him/her that opportunity ??

    talk of 'social standing' and the kind makes sense only when the stomach is not hungry. today, the rural situation is deriorating pretty bad and if reservation is needed to get things on track, it should be welcomed.


  13. #13
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    Have reservation for poors and not for castes.

    The only thing I wanted to highlight is the criteria for having reservation i.e. 'CASTE' that makes no sense to me.

    But again, I know caste based reservation is there in first place because of these stupid politicians who can do any harm to the society till they get votes. and they are doing this because they know that in India nothing appeals to masses more than 'religion' and 'caste'... not the meaningless words like 'country', 'society' or 'equality' etc etc... which is again unfortunate. How can it help those who struggle everyday for their survival, for whom getting bread two times a day is the only goal of life....... is still not clear to me. have reservation in education, provide means of living, again to poors n not castes

    I know all that is dream. it's true that since we do not have any control about abolishing this system and there are people getting undue advantage of it, so we must as well get the reservation for jats too. I agree with that.........

    but even then, atleast we can think, dream and have an opinion that this system (caste-based reservation) is stupid in itself. cuz it's the opinion of people and particularly the educated ones that makes difference ...... may not be now... maybe in future.

  14. #14
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    Say No to reservation as it's useless

    I am from jaipur and i feel that the OBC status is just a political lollipop with no real benefits.
    Real progress depends only on our hard work

  15. #15
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    Survey Results

    the result of the survey (about reservation for the jats) with over one hundred votes is close to 60% in favor and 40% against...


  16. #16
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    well well ......
    RESERVATION.... why do we need it?
    for decades we denounced it like anything. Why should accept a flawed ideology coz of some individual incompetency.
    No of government jobs is not index of a commmunity's deveopment... and if that was the case then we got pretty good no. of jats in army(thatz a govt. job i guess)
    What is reqd. is to go for education thatz the panacea for jats not the RESERVATION.... if we r good NOBODY can STOP us.
    In any case we look what reservation has done to all those low castes...... well those were downtrodden are still there only select few r reaping benefits

  17. #17
    I feel reservation at college and occupational level is a bad idea for any castes, however there may be merits in introducing it at high school and secondary levels

    Reservation has time and again lead to lower standards and reliance on support. If you keep on telling a healthy boy, that he needs help, pretty soon he starts believing it and soon he starts to give minimal effort.

    That being said, reservation is fact of life in India. I believe Jats should utilize whatever help is handed to them considering the lack of education and emphasis on it by village jats. If a change is to happen this way of thinking has to go.

    Here is what we up against. My mother started a school in Aligarh to educate jats and local population. She noticed that one fairly smart boy stopped coming to class. She went to his father to inquire the matter. The father replied "Kyo tang karti hai, agar madad karni hai to bus certiphikate de de". How can the boy suceed when the father demphasizes education. With this kind of impetus the boy has already failed (imo).
    Education is the best provision for old age.


  18. #18
    Dear Sir,
    It is nice to read so many diverse yet pertinent views on the subject. I personally feel that in a good society any kind of reservation is bad. It is not the question of getting jobs or for that matter admissions in the professional institutions, the reservation gives edge to incompetent over competent. It also kills the competitive instinct in the person given reservation as he knows he can get it without working for it.
    If reservation was the remedy that all SC/ST would have been uplifted by now. It was perceived at the time of independence that a 10 year reservation for the down trodden would be sufficient to bring them up to the main stream. However successive governments played this card to get the vote bank of those given reservation.
    We as a community must oppose all kind of reservation. Instead we must propagate the financial help to the people who can not afford the education and that to with the obligation of the person helped to return that amount with interest to help the another needy person. It is only in this manner the community as well as the entire nation can be helped. Unless we all raise our voice together against all kind of reservation the nation will continue to suffer and people will keep exploiting the communities. We must educate every body that reservation makes you dependent and lazy. So let us do away with it once for all. There is no loss of morale if one gets it however. The loss of morale is in telling lies, stealing and doing all unlawful things.
    Col(Retd) Virendra Tavathia

  19. #19
    I have just joined this forum. So let me give a brief introduction. I am from shahibabad a village in outer delhi. Graduated from Delhi College of Engineering, worked for one year and am doing my MS at Univ of Texas, Austin.
    I personally agree with Col Virendra that reservation kills competition and reservation has never uplifted any community or caste. The most well off castes are those who have worked hard. I don't know much but from my little experience I feel that Jats in Delhi can never complain of being socially backward. Right after India's independence and even before that they had easy access to highest level of education. How come the punjabis and baniyas flourished as a prosperous community by making use of the same opportunities. OBC status would do no good to the masses as a whole, it will again be the selected few who would enjoy the riches. What is needed is change in attitude. I can sight you zillion cases where having sold there land for millions Jats in Delhi are still uneducated and socially backward. We are a hard working stock and I am proud for that. What we need is change in attitude.


  20. #20
    Does not really matter either way. It is interesting to read diverging views on the subject here is mine;

    Reservation is like a handicap race, disadvantaged one gets a few meters lead. In order to win the race he still has to run fast enough so as to maintain some of the lead. Examples are seen when you start 2 boys of different ages on a race say one is 5 year old and the other is 7 year old. So the 5 year old is given 5 step lead in a say 50 meter race. But if the 7 year old is fast enough he will overtake him before the half mark. Otherwise the young one wins and feel happy about it. From moral prospective it is a fairer system than if both of them started from the same point.

    How pertinent is this philosophy in real life is debatable. It is not a race but question of survival.In this race it is not so much important as to how fast one is running but in which direction he/she is going. If We can keep going in the right direction sooner or later we hope to reach there. But if the direction is wrong no matter where we are and how fast we go we end up in the wrong place. What we need is progressive thinking combined with simple strong Jat spirit rest is all fluff. Hope all of us can instill that spirit in our children and those with whom we come across in real life.

    "Winner never complains and complainer never wins"

    Choice is yours whether you want to be a winner or a complainer.

    Best of luck in what ever you do whether it is winning or complaining personally I admire winners and pity whingers.

    Shubha Chand Sheorayan

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