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Thread: do we fear from jat sikh??

  1. #1
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    do we fear from jat sikh??

    is all written down is true!!!!!!!!! i found it on a website called Jattworld.com




    Ravi, LordJat and members of Jatland.com,

    I visited Jatland.com, a site moderated and conditioned for Hindu Jats. Though many on that site appear to be reasonable, I feel that some have sort of bias, ignorance, and fear of Jat Sikhs. Below find my analysis of the site’s ethos, not meant to offend anyone, but as a constructive criticism. I would sincerely like to help their cause, if the cause is just:

    Reviewing the clan names, the members of the site are exclusively Hindu Jats; they have Dhe Jats as well as Deswali Jats.

    The forum is geared in formulating a Hindu Jat identity, which seems to sing the tune of Indian nationalism, but also seeking Vedic Aryan status and descent.

    They view themselves as great nationalists, the preservers and saver of India’s culture and religion. They view their brethren, Jat Sikhs, as Hindu Jats who were created to defend India and Hinduism from Islam.

    This is all well and fine, but they seem to also view the Jat Sikh in negative light, perhaps as people who are confused, “senseless”, and out of the “mainstream” culture as pointed out by Dudee:

    “I agree things are not the same since 1984 but they are whole lot better than 10 years ago. We need those people. Our political leadership did them wrong. Punjab is a front line state and we cannot afford that state to be in turmoil beside these people (jat sikh) have a strong presence in western countries and we need their support in lobbying for India. We, as a Hindu Jat, has to engage them and try to bring them back to mainstream. They would rather associate with us than Punjabi Hindus although they have same language.

    WE are willing to welcome them in the main stream.”

    Some of them view the Jat Sikhs as a tool to help their cause, as Jat Sikhs have a large presence in Western Countries. I suppose Jat Sikhs are willing to cooperate with Hindu Jats, but what exactly does “mainstream” mean? What bandwagon must the Jat Sikhs jump on and why?

    I personally believe the Khalistan movement (or more likely media representation of it) has plagued them to believe that Jat Sikhs are some sort of ghadaars, or sellouts of India. And instead of looking past the propaganda, they do not try to understand the real reasons for Panjabi Jat political unrest.

    I find it rather interesting that they refuse to let Jat Sikhs post on their threads, but claim they stand for Jat unity. What are they afraid of? A khichri? Or being overwhelmed by Panjabi Jats?

    However, I still do think there are a few things Jat Sikhs have in common with them:

    1. They openly reject orthodox Brahmanical Hinduism, i.e. Vaishnavism.
    2. They allow for Widow Remarriage or karewa.
    3. They are egalitarian amongst their own creed, even though around 100 years ago Deswalis viewed Dhe as their social inferiors.
    4. They are agriculturalists who sit at the top of the village hierarchy. And have some political power.
    5. They seem to be a pragmatic people.
    6. Some of them share surnames with Jat Sikhs, i.e. Sandhu, Khokhar, Grewal, etc.

    At the same time there are some differences:

    1. They believe in Lord Shiva, which makes them susceptible to being absorbed by Brahmanical Hinduism, and as a consequence will be seen as a low caste amongst other Hindus. At the same time they are a minority group in the vast bulk of Hinduism, while Jat Sikhs are the dominant culture in Sikhism.

    2. They have extreme nationalistic pride, whilst the Panjabi Jat does not. The reasons for this are countless.

    3. Their religion and nationalistic pride, leads to using quasi-historical books to search for the origins of Jats, i.e. Mahabharata, Vedas, etc. As a consequence they must write their history around it. Thus creating distortions and often times ludicrous theories such as those proposed by Hukam Singh Parwar, i.e. Aryan Jats leave India for Central Asia, but get swept back and become Scythians in the process. Why move in the first place? “A religious schism.”

    If Hindu Jats want people around the world to believe them, they must steadfastly seek the truth. And be willing to accept facts that may not be sympathetic to a religious or political cause.

    4. No matter how much literature from various angles tell them they are invaders from Central Asia around the turn of the Christian era, they try desperately to be Aryan and son’s of the soil. So they want to be 1) autochons, 2) Aryans 3) always known as patriots 4) the race from which all other important races sprang from 5) top of Hindu social hierarchy 6) writers of the Vedas.

    I am not a religious fanatic, in fact the Sikhs on various websites consider me a sellout. I am not going to be particularly friendly to a particular religious ideology as well. I am just being honest and sincere with my intentions, and forgive me if you are offended, as I am just a Jat.

    Best Wishes,

  2. #2
    Dear Suraj,

    Thank you for the posting. It is opinion of some one who seem to be interested in becoming a member of Jatland.com. While some of his observations may be correct the analysis seems to be biased. The main reason why Jatland is exclusively for Jats is because that gives them sense of belonging. Whether it is virtual home or real home the differences in two cultures are there for every one to see and experience. That is not to say that all differences are undesirable but if those difference affect a vast majority one has to seriously consider the merit of doing so.

    The main purpose of this site is to provide a meeting place for all Hindu Jats and share their experiences. It also teaches some thing about our culture to younger members. Not even by a long shot any one is trying to change the World. Writer in your posting has some lofty goals which are not necessarily shared by Hindu Jats. The main difference between Hindu Jats and Sikh Jats is in their ideology and we should not try and impose our ideology on others.
    That can only bring strife as seen from events all around. Let us be honest and truthful not only to others but also to ourselves and not be afraid to say how we feel about some thing. There is nothing to be afraid of Jat Sikhs or any one for that matter, they are all human beings like us. Some of them are quite broad minded and good company. However that is not the criteria for membership of this site. Any comments are most welcome.

  3. #3
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    Changed Vedanteesam of JATLAND.com

    “The main purpose of this site is to provide a meeting place for all Hindu Jats and share their experiences. It also teaches some thing about our culture to younger members. Not even by a long shot any one is trying to change the World. Writer in your posting has some lofty goals which are not necessarily shared by Hindu Jats. The main difference between Hindu Jats and Sikh Jats is in their ideology and we should not try and impose our ideology on others.”

    Sheoran uncle well said.
    -----------------------------------------



    Vedanteesam of this site itself is changing as from main page itself the phrase is twisted from “Only for Hindu JATS” to “Though the common definition refers to only the Hindu Jats, a significant number of Jats are Sikhs and Muslims”. ( courtesy—JAT- An introduction ... second level page..). Question is that why it can’t be displayed at front page again. This is clear that we duly respect JATT sikh community as one of brave community like us. Main purpose of our this site is to maintain and uplift our own local heritage and very true that’s why we joined this site.

    Removing notice of “ Only for Hindu Jats” from front page is ALSO an indirect invitation to all level of intruder. Doesn’t it show that we have become vulnerable by removing our such ideology. I could not understand why we are now opting the scarism of “All that glitters are not gold” ??

    Significantly, basic approach to the root level and periodic hi-tech developments of this site could play a major role in its popularity but , as observed, removing such main ideology from front page can’t bear any fruit rather it will preempt the main stream of site (inviting such comments from other sites.. subjected to trustiness of above thread)

    As usual my message can again be dismissed from site as mere kite-flying, but it certainly paints for those all members who are favoring ONLY HINDU JATS to this site. Like minded Hindu JATS could be an analogized as statesman willing to think out of currently running paradigm. And, why not? As such people or team have a great contribution to uplift this site & helping other hindu JAT bro. \ sis. \friends ( if possible) since past 3 years or more.

    Earlier manifestation for the same JATLAND.COM was to spruce our own local culture, values and desi memories etc. This site has come a long way , not only in terms of survival but in terms of growth also, but now what actually force this site to do collation with sikh jatt? Believe me, this kind of assertiveness, at this rate could cost it dear. The justification in allowing sikh jatt could be analyzed as an ‘long term eye’ on members vote bank

    See at home we can have dinner at dinning table, piddha rakh kar ya fir borree bechaa kar but my dear friend always remember the “ KUNBA” that eats together, stays together. Bahar ke mehmaan ke saath ek–addhey din ki baat alag hoti hai, roz roz aapney kunbey main usney khawaoogey to familiarity breeds contempt.

    Integrity to this site people is just not only practical solutions, it is also about dedication, faithfulness and loyalty to our own people. Even if like minded approach is adopted that will really show the real depth and dignity of professionalism in implementing jatland.com ideology.

    Kindly feel free to delete this message and my id also if you don't want to dissiminate this kind of stuff further.
    Last edited by uday; October 29th, 2004 at 01:20 AM.

  4. #4

    Back to Square One...

    Dear All,

    Very well said Sheorayan Ji.

    Uday Ji, I don't you have said anything improper that your mail or ID will be removed from this site. Bhai ye moderator ya 'Karta Dharta' bhi to mere or aap ki tarah haad maas ke insaan hain and are intelligent and use their judgement fairly. Hopefully.

    I don't agree with the perception of Jatt Sikhs about us JATS. I understand that one member can't be representing the whole community of Jatt Sikhs but surely what he thinks about us does give an insight as to what they may be thinking about us. And I can speak only about what I have experienced in life as a student, an Army Officer and now as a civilian. Though what I am going to write may not be palatable but that is fine because I am not here to cater to the palate of Jatt Sikhs.

    But before I say something I must admit that some of my good friends are Sikhs and Muslims. I don't know why but I feel I can trust a Muslim and/or a Jatt Sikh rather than a Bahman, Bania or the other riff raff that crawls our earth. But it is my belief that HIndu JATS have better qualities as far as trustworthiness, honesty, fairplay, humility, integrity and even patriotism is concerned. By the way awards given by the British masters were no scale to judge an individual's bravery and patriotism. Mangal Pandey was a traitor for the British but a Hero for us. Therefore, we are even more Brave. Yes, we may not be as successful because of our own faults but then one can keep discussing about success, contentment, happiness, joy and satisfaction.

    Those of you who know Sonepat rather well, there was, and still is, a 'Lakdi Ki Tal' in Gita Bhawan (Opposite Batra petrol pump). It was owned by one great soul named Sardar Sewa Singh (SS). SS was a very versatile man and had seen and experienced life. A soldier in the British Indian Army (Punjab Regiment), served in the NW Frontier during partition, lost his family in the madness of partition violence, was escorted to Indian Border by his 'Pathan' friend, found his wife in Ambala Refugee Camp, came to Sonepat with 100 rupees in his pocket and started life as a 'Buggiwala'. His life's story is no less than any Napoleon or Churchill in so far as sacrifice, honesty, dedication and integrity are concerned. Sadly he passed away few years back and whenever I go home I do miss sitting with SS with a bolltle of Old Monk Rum (that I always carried for him) and listen to the tales of 'fighting in the frontier'. When the 1984 riots had engulfed the country, no one even dared to look at SS with a purpose to harm him. And what better target than a 'Lakdi ki Tal'.

    What I want to say is that so far I haven't met a Sikh who has the same kind of qualities that SS had. And that is why I have always said that this site should be only for Hindu JATS. The reasons are many. I for one believe that if you can't do anything for your own people, starting with your brother, sister, relative, nephews etc. then you have no right to speak about the country. It is for this purpose alone that I have always maintained that this site should retain its purity.

    Sorry, I don't see very many similarities between Sikhs and us. Few shared surnames is OK but that means nothing. There are so many social ills existing in our own society that we do not know where to start the clean up ops from. And let them sort out the problems their community has. I wish them well.

    My request to site administrators would be not to clutter up this place with 'Ithhe Uthhe, Assi Tussi' etc.

    Regards,

    JS Malik
    JAT BALWAN, JAI BHAGWAN

    (Ein Volk - Ein Reich - Ein Fuhrer)

  5. #5

    oh come on

    Afraid of Jat Sikhs?
    Oh come on, give me a break. I love to talk and be friends with them and with biharis, bengalis, tamil.......
    I would even love to talk to the pygmy tribes of south africa.
    The identity of this site and the purpose was that Hindu Jats were getting a platform to interact. Now the identity ends and the site too.
    We can name it Land.com instead of Jatland.com, so every one can come in.

    Sensibly speaking, if some one really wanted a bigger platform, there could be another site for All Jats. But mark my words, changing this site's purpose will be a disaster. The site can not behave like a political party trying to collect more and more votes. I never realised that this site had a future intention of building a lobby.
    The site is losing its personal touch. Thats the only thing which got me here.
    A Jat's identity is that he calls a stick a stick and a spade a spade. i better stay with the identity.
    i always say 'if one changes one's identity, one ceases to exist'.

    "कर्मंयेवाधिकरास्ते = कर्मणि एव अधिकार: ते = कर्म करनें में ही अधिकार है तुम्हारा"

  6. #6
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    guys i jus wanna say peace love and respect to every hindu jat. the website jattworld wreaks of a strange atmosphere, i have found a lot of cursing of hinduism which is wrong. In far as honesty and fair play go the only exposure i have of hindu jatts is on thsi website and so far i honestly respect the freedom we have been given to speak here and understand issues. I used to read on some bias sikh websites on water issues that hindus forsaked panjabi as their mother tongue,its onlyo when i came across a thread here i realised a very intelligent by a hindu jat who put the haryana point of view across which made a lot more sense.

    My jatt brothers please dont find that first article offensive, its a voic eof a minority. Jatts in the west are fast declining as sikhs and are going back to their traditional jatt roots. I see more jattness in hindu jats than i see in sikhs and that is a source of inspiration.

    I understand what you guys mean about the social ills, and i wish you the best if you want to keep a hindu jat only site so be it. I hope we can still remain as brothers.

    This is a special place where i have learnt jatt history and culture if i wont be allowed to post here for being a jatt sikh then at least i can still read.

    I dont know what to say about having much in common with jatts of sikh and hindus, maybe today not but i can provide u evidence that in the past noted by british scholars that jatt sikhs in the 18th century were basically the same thing as the hurianna jatt tribes.

    anyways guys whatever the outcome dont take that article seriously, a lot of jatt sikhs in england at least are not strictly sikh but have long gone into radaswami and hindu practices. Now theres a tiny minority of khalistanis who now most jatt sikhs hate, theres even smaller minority of jatt sikhs who use and bait the identity of others to big up their own personal clan name, but they have absolute no support from most panjabi jatts. jatts are just jatts thats it as time evolves thats the way jatt sikhs are heading towards jattness. theres no im a sikh im better attitude most jatt sikhs dont even sport hair or go gurdwara i know here.

  7. #7
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    O cummon teerath i don believe u said just because a sikh follows his religion strictly dosent mean he cant be a jat too ,i ama hindu and ill say this candidly sikhism has soo many points better than hinduism ,these bahmans have killed this religion thats y arya samaj came into fold for me it dosent matter if ur a sikh hindu or muslim just the fact your a jat counts and as my best frd says daroo kukard te buraaahhhhh

  8. #8
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    what i said was punjabi jatts are fast goin out of sikhism back towards jattness hence differences of religion are dissapearing, this is the reality both in punjab and the west.

    I dont know what passion hindu jatts have towards hinduism but even punjabi hindus i know of arent so passionate of hinduism but of way of life that fits around them.

    brother in arya samaj whats the view of meat and drink?

  9. #9
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    Personaly ,wrong person to be askin that question cuz i ain that religious i believe in bein a better human being than actually sinin and goin toa mandir .
    I kno wat u mean but i don think strictly folowin a religion makes u less jat .

    pahji on the issue on jattworld agian, there r a coupla folks that hate hindus like crazee only some tho most are nice and broad minded i hear 1 guy sayin sikhs arent treated good bak home wata looser i lived in bombay and the M.L.A from my constitute amboli is a sikh jatt MR baldev khosa nice guy ,there are 3 gurudwaras like ina very small vicintity tho not many sikhs thoo ,1 of ma best frd is a sikh jat and is more patriotic than even me n lol he hates those khalistanis hope none come by his way and on top of that he folows sikhism like ne 1 i kno , many of the folks on jattworld havent even been to inidia and don kno the ground realities not their fault ,watever some one else says is always gona sound wrong cuz ur under an unchangable perception but no luv lost i love some of them out there nice hard cores n funny as **** :D
    Last edited by vardaan; October 30th, 2004 at 04:44 AM.

  10. #10

    hmmm

    when Jats converted to sikhism/islam, jaatism became secondry to them.
    At a higher level, we interact only as individuals, the other identities become smaller. When i talk to some one, its not because he is from a specific group but bcoz he is an individual.
    this site has been unofficially using the dialect commonly known as Jaatu for communication. that gives a personal touch for a large number of people.
    Jaatism is not a religion. Jat is a clan of common ancestory over a long period of time.
    This site (as i see it) is dedicated to Jaatism.
    Teerath, your visiting this site as Jaat, is fully justified.
    My ancestory fascinates me, i ve traced 8 generations and in near future i intend to visit Garh Mukteshwar, where a record of generations is maintained, plan to find more from there.
    Except for my education and knowledge, i owe all the rest of my traits to my genes and history and have a definite plan to trace as much as is possible.

    See, when i go to a reading room, it is not to play football. This site is serving a pupose, it should continue to.

    "कर्मंयेवाधिकरास्ते = कर्मणि एव अधिकार: ते = कर्म करनें में ही अधिकार है तुम्हारा"

  11. #11
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    Mean no offense navin but is jatism secondary to u or primary or does being a hindu come b4 being a jat ???

  12. #12

    nothing matters whether people say anything.

    hi suraj, thaks for the information u gave to jats.

    actually jatts hold jats to be inferior to them
    but tell me whether one can become inferior to another one if another one says so.
    we shouldnt care what others say. if u r powerful , no one can raise fingers upon u. so u just need to become powerful in place of minding other's sayings.
    understand the matter u r made of

  13. #13
    actuaaly i dont wanna say this as with the time everything changes. If jatts now get more progressed than us than they should be proud but should not underestimate jats.
    when jats converted to sikhism, they were called as jats and those jats who were not converted were called as asli(original) jats in the past time.
    understand the matter u r made of

  14. #14

    religion

    I have picked aspects of philosophies from different religions.
    I love vedic philosophy, very scientific and open to discovery. 99% of any religion has been written by man.
    I have studied nearly every religous book. Love studying languages and cultures. Know about 8-10 languages to some extent.
    Jaatism is my genes, my blood. i owe my traits to Jaatism.
    I am short tempered, i am aggressive, i am energetic, i am farthest from diplomacy, never give up, nothing motivates me more than a real challenge. You want a Jat to do something, challenge him.
    Jaatism runs in my blood.
    Being a Jat doesnt make me less human. i feel the same compassion and closeness to people of any religion/place.
    When i want to practice malayalam, punjabi, urdu, chinese, i go to respective websites. So, it is 100% justified for me to expect and desire Jaat language and culture on this website. That shouldnot change.
    Last edited by navingulia; November 1st, 2004 at 10:06 PM. Reason: addition

    "कर्मंयेवाधिकरास्ते = कर्मणि एव अधिकार: ते = कर्म करनें में ही अधिकार है तुम्हारा"

  15. #15

    Jats/Jatts

    m_gaina wrote ....."actually jatts hold jats to be inferior to them " .

    I m sorry to say but how could you write such an untrue statement. I have many "Jatt" friends who don't feel this way. Even the Jatts who-when I met for the first time didn't show any of such signs.

    I think we should respect whatever their ideology is. Are they trying to, in any way, change ours??? or Can they ???? I don't they are/can.

    I personally don't differentiate between Jatts and Jats. To me both are same.

    Regards,
    Jat or Jatt (whichever way u take)

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