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Thread: JATS in Sindh from the beginning of the Christian Era to c. 11 Century AD

  1. #1

    JATS in Sindh from the beginning of the Christian Era to c. 11 Century AD

    The issue of the position of Jats in Sindh in ancient times, has attracted the attention of quite a large number of members. It is quite interesting topic among the participants in some other threads too. There the members have expressed desire to discuss threadbare the presence of varaious Jat Clans in Sindh region on the eve of Qasim's invasion of Sindh and also want to know their social standing before and after this event.

    The references about the Jats in Sindh and their migration in pre-Islamic times to Iran and other Arab countries and their sterling role there are available in abundance in Arabic sources.

    Moreover, after 712 AD their role and social standing is reflected in Persian, Arabic and other sources both primary as well as secondary.

    Other aspect which could attract participants attention is their spread from Sindh to Gujrat, Punjab and Rajasthan during this period of our study.

    In this way the topic encompasses wide universe for discussion.

    Your reasoned contribution to discussion is welcome.
    History is best when created, better when re-constructed and worst when invented.

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  3. #2
    Jats appear to be the original race of Sind valley, stretching from the mouth of Indus to as far as the valley of Peshawar. [Dr S.Jabir Raza, The Jats - Their Role and Contribution to the Socio-Economic Life and Polity of North and North West India. Vol I, 2004, Ed Dr Vir Singh]Traditionally Jats of Sind consider their origin from the far northwest and claimed ancient Garh Gajni (modern Rawalpindi) as their original abode. [Elliot, op. cit., Vol.I, p.133] Persian chronicler Firishta strengthened this view and informs us that Jats were originally living near the river of the Koh-i-Jud (Salt Range) in northwest Punjab. [Muhammad Qasim Hindu Shah Firista, Gulsan-i-Ibrahimi, commonly known as Tarikh-i-Firishta, Nawal Kishore edition, (Kanpur, 1865), Vol.I, p.35] The Jats then occupied the Indus valley and settled themselves on both the banks of the Indus River. By the fourth century region of Multan was under their control.[Dr S.Jabir Raza, The Jats - Their Role and Contribution to the Socio-Economic Life and Polity of North and North West India. Vol I, 2004, Ed Dr Vir Singh]Then they rose to the sovereign power and their ruler Jit Salindra, who promoted the renown of his race, started the Jat colonisation in Punjab and fortified the town Salpur/Sorpur, near Multan. [Inscription No.1, Tod, op.cit., Vol.I, p. 622-23]
    Laxman Burdak

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  5. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by lrburdak View Post
    Jats appear to be the original race of Sind valley, stretching from the mouth of Indus to as far as the valley of Peshawar. [Dr S.Jabir Raza, The Jats - Their Role and Contribution to the Socio-Economic Life and Polity of North and North West India. Vol I, 2004, Ed Dr Vir Singh]Traditionally Jats of Sind consider their origin from the far northwest and claimed ancient Garh Gajni (modern Rawalpindi) as their original abode. [Elliot, op. cit., Vol.I, p.133] Persian chronicler Firishta strengthened this view and informs us that Jats were originally living near the river of the Koh-i-Jud (Salt Range) in northwest Punjab. [Muhammad Qasim Hindu Shah Firista, Gulsan-i-Ibrahimi, commonly known as Tarikh-i-Firishta, Nawal Kishore edition, (Kanpur, 1865), Vol.I, p.35] The Jats then occupied the Indus valley and settled themselves on both the banks of the Indus River. By the fourth century region of Multan was under their control.[Dr S.Jabir Raza, The Jats - Their Role and Contribution to the Socio-Economic Life and Polity of North and North West India. Vol I, 2004, Ed Dr Vir Singh]Then they rose to the sovereign power and their ruler Jit Salindra, who promoted the renown of his race, started the Jat colonisation in Punjab and fortified the town Salpur/Sorpur, near Multan. [Inscription No.1, Tod, op.cit., Vol.I, p. 622-23]
    Friend,
    Thanks. I may add here the following additional sources culled from various research studies on the topic.

    Those who are interested to study the earliest historical references from the Arabic and Persian authors, a vast source material is available. Many of the books are said to be based on the earlier available Indian literature too. The language is the main handicap for us to use these original Arabic or their Persian texts. Moreover many of them are extinct and only their English translations have to be depended upon. In such case, how much reliance is to be given to the information becomes questionable. But in such case where no information is coming up, a bit of information available has to be used subject to be changed on arrival of more authentic and reliable sources.

    Be what it is, some of the Arabic and Persian sources on the History of Jats of Sindh [ the region including Indus Valley up to Saurashtra] are put before the participants to be scanned and used as under :

    1.Majmalut-Twarikh : It was translated from the original Sanskrit work into Arabic by Abu Salih b. Shuaib b.Jami (date not known) with the title Majumalut-Twarikh. From Arabic the work was trabskated into Persian in 1026 A.D. by Abdul Hasan Ali b. Muhammad al-Jili. Facimile English translation by Elliot and Dowson, History of India as told by its own Historians, (London), 1867.

    2.Chachnama (Annonymous), Persian Translation by Ali b. Hamid b. Abu Bakr al-kufi. Edited N>A. Baloch, (Islamabad-Pakistan, 1982).

    3. Tarikh-i-Sind, commonly known as Tarikh-i-Masumi, ed. Umar b. Muhammad Daudpota, (Bombay, 1938)

    To be continued...

    PS : The newer translations/publications of the above given [or hereinafter to be posted] sources may be shared to update the discussion.
    History is best when created, better when re-constructed and worst when invented.

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  7. #4
    जर्मनी मे सिंती नाम के जिप्सी हैं , जो अपने आप को 600 साल पहले सिंध से आए हुए बताते हैं | उनकी बोली मे अब भी काफी शब्द हमारी बोली से मिलते जुलते हैं | कृप्या इस पर भी प्रकाश डाले की क्या इन लोगो का जाटों से कुछ कनैक्शन हैं ?
    " जाट हारा नहीं कभी रण में तीर तोप तलवारों से ,
    जाट तो हारा हैं , गद्दारों से दरबारों से
    |"

    " इस कौम का ईलाही दुखड़ा किसे सुनाऊ ?
    डर हैं के इसके गम में घुल घुल के न मर जाऊँ || "
    ...........................चौ.छोटूराम ओहल्याण

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  9. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by raka View Post
    जर्मनी मे सिंती नाम के जिप्सी हैं , जो अपने आप को 600 साल पहले सिंध से आए हुए बताते हैं | उनकी बोली मे अब भी काफी शब्द हमारी बोली से मिलते जुलते हैं | कृप्या इस पर भी प्रकाश डाले की क्या इन लोगो का जाटों से कुछ कनैक्शन हैं ?
    Friend,

    Yes, many a scholars have studied the issue and agree that many of the 'gypsy' migrated from India and some of them have close connection with the Jats. Hukam Singh Panwar and Shashi Kant Singh have given detailed discussion on the issue in their books,

    The important issue raised by you concerns medieaval times, we shall also like to take up the issue when the discussion reaches that stage. Presently, the participants are requested to concentrate on Ancient times' Jats in Sindh region, please !

    Thanks and best wishes
    History is best when created, better when re-constructed and worst when invented.

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  11. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by raka View Post
    जर्मनी मे सिंती नाम के जिप्सी हैं , जो अपने आप को 600 साल पहले सिंध से आए हुए बताते हैं | उनकी बोली मे अब भी काफी शब्द हमारी बोली से मिलते जुलते हैं | कृप्या इस पर भी प्रकाश डाले की क्या इन लोगो का जाटों से कुछ कनैक्शन हैं ?
    Along with jews, guypsies were also exterminated by Hitler at a large scale. Hitler tagged them of inferior race.

    As far as gypsies are concerned, genetic analysis revealed a very little possibility of their connection with Jats. there are more close to banjara/ natts tribeso of punjab and sindh.
    Become more and more innocent, less knowledgeable and more childlike. Take life as fun - because that's precisely what it is!

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  13. #7
    Roma Gypsy Issue was earlier discussed on Jatland long back. It was agreed upon that they are not related with Jats though they use language very similar to Rajasthani and Haryanvi etc.
    Laxman Burdak

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  15. #8
    In the Arabic and Persian sources, it is mentioned that the Jats from Sindh [India] were in frequent touch with the people of Iran/Iraq and some other parts of the Arabia.

    The sources reveal that Jats went to those places in search of greener pastures and also carried out trade and commerce with the people of those places and their motherland. This indicates that they were not satisfied with their abject economic condition caused due to Brahmanic rule over Sindh in those days, Since they were very enterprising and courageous people, they braved all the hazards of sea voyage with their members of the family and sometimes their animals too.

    There are several references in these sources depicting presence of considerable number of Jat People in the above mentioned areas and their participation in various wars and battles among various tribes during the pre-emergence of Islam era .

    History is best when created, better when re-constructed and worst when invented.

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  17. #9
    It is mentioned in Arabic and Persian sources that a Jat Doctor from India provided medical aid to the ailing wife of the Prophet.

    Another reference mentions a meeting of a Jat from India [ at some other time ] with the Prophet.

    They continued to profess their religion without converting to Islam and played very significant role in association with one or the other tribe to fight for and against the spread of Islam in those areas. This shows their religious independence.

    Later on they joined the pro-Islamic army on their own terms and conditions which guaranteed their religious independence.

    But
    still later on it is found that they accepted Islam and thus lost their independent identity as a group of Jats from India in those places. [This merge happened by c.900 AD].
    History is best when created, better when re-constructed and worst when invented.

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  19. #10
    The Jats, described in above posts earlier inhabited the region between Saurashtra to Peshawar who had established themselves at a few places as rulers too in the early centuries of the Christian era emerged as very enterprising and to consolidate their economic position joined trade and commerce in a big way. They controlled land and sea routes of their area which connected them with gulf countries. Their boats and ships were witnessed by the Persian and Arabic writers sailing in the rivers and oceans.
    History is best when created, better when re-constructed and worst when invented.

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  21. #11
    Jats of Sindh

    We must also take into account whether the people who are now called 'Jat' had any connection with the Jat of trans- Indus Indian tracts of the Turko-persian/arabic blood.H .Risley treated the two separately ("People of India"). The Vedic Aryans had the eastern bank of Indus as their western limit of settlement. The People now called Jat are true representartives of Aryan life and ways.

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  23. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by drssrana2003 View Post
    Jats of Sindh

    We must also take into account whether the people who are now called 'Jat' had any connection with the Jat of trans- Indus Indian tracts of the Turko-persian/arabic blood.H .Risley treated the two separately ("People of India"). The Vedic Aryans had the eastern bank of Indus as their western limit of settlement. The People now called Jat are true representartives of Aryan life and ways.
    With the advancement of multi-disciplinery advances in the field of scientific research in social sciences including study of history, there is no taker of this redundant theory now.

    These latest researches have proved that the word Arya does not denote race or people but was used to describe all those people who spoke the same dialect/ language. Therefore, Risely theory dividing people on the basis of banks of Indus stands demolished and now it is admitted by all that the people living on the other bank were as good Aryas as the Indian Aryas because both belonged to the same language group.
    History is best when created, better when re-constructed and worst when invented.

  24. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by drssrana2003 View Post
    Jats of Sindh

    We must also take into account whether the people who are now called 'Jat' had any connection with the Jat of trans- Indus Indian tracts of the Turko-persian/arabic blood.H .Risley treated the two separately ("People of India").
    Can you pinpoint second group of Turko Persian Arabic blood Jats of Trans Sindh Areas....Does he mean Jats of Belochistan areas or Jats of Gajani afghanistan areas .H Risely treated two separately........ How...??


    The Vedic Aryans had the eastern bank of Indus as their western limit of settlement. The People now called Jat are true representartives of Aryan life and ways.
    This is highly erroneous observation .Regarding Jats being true representative of Aryans life and ways ...we should use Vedic in stead of word Aryan.
    Last edited by narenderkharb; February 15th, 2015 at 04:42 AM.

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  26. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by drssrana2003 View Post
    Jats of Sindh

    We must also take into account whether the people who are now called 'Jat' had any connection with the Jat of trans- Indus Indian tracts of the Turko-persian/arabic blood.H .Risley treated the two separately ("People of India"). The Vedic Aryans had the eastern bank of Indus as their western limit of settlement. The People now called Jat are true representatives of Aryan life and ways.
    Could you elaborate your statement : ''The Vedic Aryans had the eastern bank of Indus as their western limit of settlement.''

    How do you define Aryans and differentiate between Aryans and Vedic Aryans.
    History is best when created, better when re-constructed and worst when invented.

  27. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by DrRajpalSingh View Post
    Could you elaborate your statement : ''The Vedic Aryans had the eastern bank of Indus as their western limit of settlement.''

    How do you define Aryans and differentiate between Aryans and Vedic Aryans.
    With all respect to Dr Rana and his great command over Sanskrit I think he has not read about ancient history of areas like Belochistan Makran central asia etc. He simply failed to take a holistic view of Jat history and came to erroneous conclusions as one cited above and his theory that word Jat was given By Arabs to Indians.

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  29. #16
    I again repeat some facts which contradict Dr Rana:

    1. By the fourth century region of Multan was under the control of Jats. [Dr S.Jabir Raza, The Jats - Their Role and Contribution to the Socio-Economic Life and Polity of North and North West India. Vol I, 2004, Ed Dr Vir Singh]

    2. "Multan" is the shorter version of the word Malli-stan. The word "Stan" or "Sthan" in Sanskrit (ancient language of the Hindus) means place. Thus, Mallistan or Multan means a place where Malli live. Multan is one of the oldest cities in the Indian subcontinent. Malli are Jats. Even today Malli or Malhi Jats exist in Punjab. The Ex. Member of Canadian Parliament, G.S. Malhi, also belongs to this Jat clan.

    3. Then they rose to the sovereign power and the Jat ruler Maharaja Salindra (AD 409), who promoted the renown of his race, started the Jat colonisation in Punjab and fortified the town Salpur/Sorpur, near Multan. [Inscription No.1, Tod, op.cit., Vol.I, p. 622-23]. This Inscription was found in Malwa region which itself gets name from Mallis.

    Then how is it possible that word was coined by Arabians as Dr Rana Suggested.
    Last edited by lrburdak; April 1st, 2015 at 10:20 AM.
    Laxman Burdak

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  31. #17
    We have on Jatland The History of India, as Told by Its Own Historians By Sir H. M. Elliot, Edited by John Dowson, 1867, Volume I see Appendix. Note (C).- Ethnological here -

    http://www.jatland.com/home/The_Hist...gical#The_Jats

    It writes on Jats :

    [p.507]: General Cunningham in his Archælogical Report for 1863-4, says, "The traditions of the Hindu Játs of Biána and Bharatpur point to Kandahar as their parent country, while those of the Muhammadan Játs generally refer to Gajni or Garh-Gajni, which may be either the celebrated fort of Ghazni in Afghanistan or the old city of Gajnipur on the site of Rawul-Pindi. But if I am right in my identification of the Játs with the Xanthii of Strabo, and the Iatii of Pliny and Ptolemy, their parent country must have been on the banks of the Oxus, between Bactria, Hyrkania, and Khorasmia. Now in this very position there was a fertile district, irrigated from the Margus river, which Pliny calls Zotale or Zothale, and which, I believe to have been the original seat of the Iatii or Játs. Their course from the Oxus to the Indus may perhaps be dimly traced in the Xuthi of Dionysius of Samos, who are coupled with the Arieni, and in the Zuthi of Ptolemy who occupied the Karmanian desert on the frontier of Drangiana. As I can find no other traces of their name in the classical writers, I am inclined to believe, as before suggested, that they may have been best known in early times, by the general name of their horde, as Abars, instead of by their tribal name as Játs. According to this view, the main body of the Iatii would have occupied the district of Abiria and the towns of Parda-bathra and Bardaxema in Sindh, or Southern Indo-Scythia,

    [p.508]: while the Panjab or Northern Indo-Scythia was chiefly colonized by their brethren the Meds.

    When the Muhammadans first appeared in Sindh, towards the end of the seventh century, the Zaths and Meds were the chief population of the country. But as I have already shown that the original seat of the Med or Medi colony was in the Panjab proper, I conclude that the original seat of the Iatii or Ját colony, must have been in Sindh.

    At the present day the Játs are found in every part of the Panjab, where they form about two-fifths of the population. They are chiefly Musulmans, and are divided into not less than a hundred different tribes. * * * * To the east of the Panjab, the Hindu Játs are found in considerable numbers in the frontier states of Bikaner, Jesalmer, and Jodhpur, where, in Col. Tod's opinion, they are as numerous as all the Rajput races put together. They are found also in great numbers along the upper course of the Ganges and Jumna, as far eastward as Bareli, Farak-habad, and Gwalior, where they are divided into two distinct clans. * * * To the south of the Panjab, the Musulman Játs are said by Pottinger to form the entire population of the fruitful district of Haraud-Dajel, on the right bank of the Indus, and the bulk of the population in the neighbouring district of Kach-Gandava. In Sindh, where they have intermarried largely with Buluchis and Musulmans of Hindu descent, it is no longer possible to estimate their numbers, although it is certain that a very large proportion of the population must be of Ját descent.
    Laxman Burdak

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  33. #18
    The above discussion testifies that Jats were there in Sindh in considerable number when Alexander, the Macedonian invader, attacked North western India in c. 326 BC.


    Then one cannot but wonder how the argument of some people be accepted that only on the advent of Arabs the Jats appeared on the Indian scene !

    In fact the presence of the Jat community in India goes to hoary past.
    Last edited by DrRajpalSingh; April 2nd, 2015 at 12:35 PM.

  34. #19
    Sibipura town of Sibi Jats

    Prof. B.S. Dhillon[1] writes that today, Sibipura town is called "Shorkot" and is located in the Jhang district of Punjab, Pakistan. As per Diodorus [2], Arrian [3] and Strabo [4], the area surrounding Sibipura was occupied by a people called Sibi, during the time of Alexander's invasion of Punjab.

    Professor Eggermont [5] said, "J. Ph. Vogel showed that the mound of Shorkot (Jhang district, between Chenab, Indus, and Ravi rivers) represents the site of Sibipura, the town (pura) of the Sibis, which is mentioned in a Shorkot inscription". Even today Sibi or Sibia is a well known Jat clan in Punjab. Furthermore, Professor Eggermont [6] said, "However, I cannot possibly pass over in silence that in the very Vessantara Jataka the town over which Sanjaya, king of Sibi, ruled is called Jettuttara and not Aritta-pura. It is probably more likely the word Jetuttara is Jetupura or Jatupura which means the place where Jats live. The word "pura" in Sanskrit means "place".

    References

    1.History and study of the Jats/Chapter 7,p.104

    2. Diodorus (first century B.C.), Diodorus of Sicilly, translated by C.B. Welles, Vol. 8, Harvard University Press, Cambridge, Massachusetts, 1946, pp. 397, 401, 405

    3.Arrian (95-175 A.D.), Anabasis of Alexander, translated by E.I. Robson, Harvard University Press, Cambridge, Massachusetts, 1966, pp. 37, 59, 69-72, 131-139 (Vol. II).

    4. Strabo (first century A.D.), The Geography of Strabo, translated by H.L. Jones, Harvard University Press, Cambridge, Massachusetts, 1954, pp. 57-58 (Vol. VIII).

    5.Eggermont, P.H.L., Alexander's Campaign in Gandhara and Ptolemy's List of Indo- Scythian Towns, Orientalia Lovaniensia Periodica I, 1970, pp. 89, 86.

    6.Eggermont, P.H.L., Alexander's Campaign in Gandhara and Ptolemy's List of Indo- Scythian Towns, Orientalia Lovaniensia Periodica I, 1970, pp. 89, 86.
    Last edited by lrburdak; April 3rd, 2015 at 04:39 PM.
    Laxman Burdak

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  36. #20
    Sibipura is Jatapura of Ramayana

    In Ramayana, Sarg 42 of Kishkindha Kanda mentions places in the west.

    ....Further, you will find a sea (Arabian Sea) in which many sharks and crocodiles live in. Near that sea, you will find a forest where Ketakee, Tamaal, Kaarikel (coconut) trees grow. After that you will find Murachee and Jatapura cities. Next you go to Avanti (this Avantee is another Avantee), Anglepaa and Alakshitaa.

    After this you will arrive at the mouth of River Indus (Sindhu). Near it is Hem Giri Parvat (Som Giri Parvat) which has numerous summits and on which there are many huge tall trees. Here live flying lions who take Timi named Matsya (fish or sharks) and elephant seals on the trees. You will search this mountain thoroughly.

    Here we find mention of Jatapur city means 'the city of Jats' near Avanti and after it is situated Sindhu River.


    वेलातल निवेष्टेषु पर्वतेषु वनेषु च ।
    मुरची पत्तनम् चैव रम्यम् चैव जटा पुरम् ॥४-४२-१३॥

    कपयो विहरिष्यन्ति नारिकेल वनेषु च ।
    तत्र सीताम् च मार्गध्वम् निलयम् रावणस्य च ॥४-४२-१२॥

    अवंतीम् अंगलेपाम् च तथा च अलक्षितम् वनम् ।
    राष्ट्राणि च विशालानि पत्तनानि ततः ततः ॥४-४२-१४॥

    सिंधु सागरयोः चैव संगमे तत्र पर्वतः ।
    महान् हेम गिरिः नाम शत शृंगो महाद्रुमः ॥४-४२-१५॥

    We can infer that Jatapura mentioned in Ramayana is same as ancient Sibipura and present Shorkot located in the Jhang district of Punjab, Pakistan.

    The Sibi people when came to present Nagari near Chittor gave the name Jattaur which Al-biruni has written as Jittor. [The Jats:Their Origin, Antiquity and Migrations/An Historico-Somatometrical study bearing on the origin of the Jats, p.151]
    Laxman Burdak

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