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Thread: Jats as the most backward community

  1. #161
    Welcome Mr Deepak

    Aap ka sawagat hai, Jats are never backward, we are very much forward.

    and hope every Jat will be forward by the help of other Jats only.

    Karmveer

    Quote Originally Posted by deepak21october View Post
    hey seriously i dont think that jats are the backword and there are so many jats i know that are well educated
    i think it`s all depand on that how u see towards jat bcoz in jat every kind of people u fin well eduacted to farmer
    WORD IMPOSSIBLE SAYS I M POSSIBLE.

    Apologising dosent mean that U are wrong & the other is right.....It only means that U value the relationship much more than ur ego.

  2. #162
    Quote Originally Posted by nkkhoth View Post
    I was interested to know when was this issue raised with CM ?

    And who raised the issue of reservation for jats ?

    If you can give some info
    The issue was rasied with Mr. Deepender Hooda. It was not for reservation for Jats, but it was to abolish the reservation totally, or keep it only on economic basis.
    Col (Retd) Virendra Tavathia


    "A person should not be judged by the nature of his/her job, but the manner in which he/she does that".

  3. #163

    Arrow

    Quote Originally Posted by nkkhoth View Post
    Col saheb A very important question is asked from you again and again which you are not replying.
    Do you suggest that younger people should continue to suffer till a perfect economic formula is deviced and others should continue to enjoy the benefits of status quo.

    No, the younger as well as older, every one should oppose the reservaion policy. Educate the people having reservation, that it is not helping them in the long run. Tell them, incompetent person treating them in serious illness. Tell them incompetent person giving decisions on their legal issues. Tell them to look beyond their nose and widen their outlook for a better and more unified society. It will take time, but I am sure it will work.

    Do you suggest we should take to violent protests on streets or you suggest we should adopt ghandian peaceful methods to oppose sc st and obc reservation.Though I and many other believe that these are just unpractical and never going to have any effect are they not creating a confusion in our stand for justice to our people.

    No, I am against any voilence or damage to the public or personal property for they are all national assets. I am also against any thing that disrupts the day to day life of the other citizens or that suspends essential services. We have to find some way to protest and educate the public.

    Can you suggest how these economic benefits can reach to deserved categories as we see during the discussion that all these economic criterion is just manipulated by well to do persons.

    That is again, we have to get rid of our attitude "Sab Chalta Hai". Many of these people who are misappropriating the government funds, are from among us only. Catch them and bring them in front of public. Fortunately, media is very active these days. Small self serving committes of the students can do a great service to the nation. Take out some time from watching TV, or chatting on internet, and work with the people to make them aware of the cancer of corruption that has lead us to the current situation.

    By suggesting a status quo are you not asking a continuation of exploitation that is unethical unideal .When you are so much bothered about the possible unjustice that may happen to other nonjat groups ,posting as a jat from a plateform of jat members
    Does a flash of thought ever comes to your mind that our own people are the worst sufferer in present scenario,where we are bracted in a group where all other groups have better access to opportunities.
    I am not suggesting the status quo. There is a movement already going on for anti reservation. Join that movement and strengthen that rather than asking for reservation and weakening that movement. Try to unite people for a good cause. Imagine a situation where there is no reservation. People are given help to study and money is gainfully spend to improve the infrastructure in rural areas. It would not come over night, but beginning has to be made.

    There are thousands of successful people from the Jat community, and let me tell you, they all reached there without reservation. Look how many officers are there in armed forces from our community, do you think they all got there with reservation.

    God helps those who help themselves. If you are looking for some one who will give you every thing what you want, let me assure you, the wait is going to be more than the life time. No help can help a person, unless the person himself/herself is willing to work hard. There is no short cut to success and there is no alternative to hard work. You will still find unsuccessful people in the Jat community even if they are included in reserved categoty. Since Jats in Rajasthan have been included in the reserved category, have they all become prosperous?
    Col (Retd) Virendra Tavathia


    "A person should not be judged by the nature of his/her job, but the manner in which he/she does that".

  4. #164
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    Jats Do Need Reservation

    I'm Dr. B L Chowdhary from All India Institute of Medical Sciences. I've not joined this institute on the basis of OBC but on my own merits. I was spearheading another camp in AIIMS recently that was pro-reservation for OBC.

    I strongly oppose Dr. Tewatias statement that if OBC reservation is implemented then only Jats should go for it. I say that even otherwise also Jats should go for it. They should throw their all might behind this. I often saw him in anti-reservation camp (from Pan-IIT alumni/student side) not very clear about his stand.

    I sat on Jantar-Mantar and issued a warning that if 27% quota is not implemented soon then we'll come on street to demand 80% reservation for OBC. Also the concept of creamy layer will soon be applied to remaining 20% forward castes. I feel there are lot of poor people in forward caste whose benefits are stolen by a few rich people over there.

    I must request you Jats that I'm also a Jat like you from Rajasthan. Even then I must say that people opposing reservation for Jats are really ignorant of Jat's interest. They do not know what Bharat Mata is. Asli Bharat Mata Shahar me nahin Gaon me basti hai. Plz stop calling these people idealists n all that. They are simply misguiding the Jat Youth.

  5. #165
    Welcome Dr Choudhary.

    It is really heartening that people from all fields such as Doctors ,scientists ,top beaurocrats ,foreign based soft ware professonals who though didn't take reservation understands the present situation and seeing dark future of our younger generation are advocating that we must safe gard the future of young generation.

    We can'nt expect all members of a community to have one view and particularly jats who make every simple issue as a big debate.

    I think Dr Tewatia is a all for jat reservation as you can see going in this thread.

    There are certain crucial junctures where we have to think and take a proper decision and where unnecessary confusion are deterimental to the interest of community and should be avoided in the best interest of community.

  6. #166
    I believe people like BR Ambadekar who knew that deprived sections are not less talented and fought for their just rights were true Idealist than people like Nehru who called himself forward looking but did choose people from his cast except a lucky few when CMs to different statses were to be slected.

    .

  7. #167
    Quote Originally Posted by arunshamli View Post
    It’s a myth that reserved category candidates are less talented. Talent is in individual thing and one can not say the same thing about the whole group. Saying all reserved are dumb and all non reseved are the best of the society, is nothing but a dishonest statement.

    When I was doing my masters, the class senior was a reserved candidate from Bihar. I have not seen such a brilliant person till date. others(reserved/nonreserved both) used to copy from him in the tutorial. And there were many south Indians who were also from reserved category and some of them were among the top 10. top 10 was a mix of reserved and non reserved.

    Scoring higher percentage marks is just one parameter to measure the talent. But this is not the only one. And I must say it is not even the most important.

    I think everyone here agrees that people in rural area are by no mean less talented than those living in cities, they just don’t have access to the good facilities.
    Let me put a simple question and those who object to the reservation please try to give a simple answer if possible: If talented rural candidate gets some reservation, they will loose their talent. Is that what you all are saying?

    my request to you all, please go and see in the villages, this talent is being converted in to criminals. The reason is: lack of opportunity. When not given any chance our youth are becoming direction less and converting into chota mota chor lutera. I am sure many of us are aware of this.

    I would prefer being called from a reserved category rather than a criminal. Now they are calling our ancestor were criminals, but soon it will be true. I do not know our ancestor were chor-lutere or not , but for coming generations it will definitely be true. And they can not even say this is FALSE. Because it is not.

    Reservation in my view is not a short term solution; it is a long term solution. It has already helped many people and it will help us also. but only if we get the status OBC.
    Very well explained.

  8. #168
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    humen to apno ne mara gairon me kahan dum tha.
    kishti hamari vahan doobi jahan paani kum tha.
    shaayad rajasthan me paani kum tha. Rajasthan ke jaton ko banavti baaten nahin aati.

    A bania has his shop. The rate he decides. if a jat wants to buy its ok otherwise he goes back.

    But a Jat tilling his land and doing all cultivation, was/is never able to decide his KEEMAT. To decide his keemat he has to either commit suicide or threaten various agitations.

    will ever be a commission to look after his hard work and property?

    and till then a kissan should be silent that one day "Messiah" will come from heaven.

    But till the time that "Mesiah" comes whether that kissan should be silent or burdened with more fights..... say for equality......say for this and that....????

    till then what should that kissan do?

  9. #169
    Quote Originally Posted by arunshamli View Post
    It’s a myth that reserved category candidates are less talented. Talent is in individual thing and one can not say the same thing about the whole group. Saying all reserved are dumb and all non reseved are the best of the society, is nothing but a dishonest statement.

    When I was doing my masters, the class senior was a reserved candidate from Bihar. I have not seen such a brilliant person till date. others(reserved/nonreserved both) used to copy from him in the tutorial. And there were many south Indians who were also from reserved category and some of them were among the top 10. top 10 was a mix of reserved and non reserved.

    Scoring higher percentage marks is just one parameter to measure the talent. But this is not the only one. And I must say it is not even the most important.

    I think everyone here agrees that people in rural area are by no mean less talented than those living in cities, they just don’t have access to the good facilities.
    Let me put a simple question and those who object to the reservation please try to give a simple answer if possible: If talented rural candidate gets some reservation, they will loose their talent. Is that what you all are saying?

    my request to you all, please go and see in the villages, this talent is being converted in to criminals. The reason is: lack of opportunity. When not given any chance our youth are becoming direction less and converting into chota mota chor lutera. I am sure many of us are aware of this.

    I would prefer being called from a reserved category rather than a criminal. Now they are calling our ancestor were criminals, but soon it will be true. I do not know our ancestor were chor-lutere or not , but for coming generations it will definitely be true. And they can not even say this is FALSE. Because it is not.

    Reservation in my view is not a short term solution; it is a long term solution. It has already helped many people and it will help us also. but only if we get the status OBC.
    Arun,

    Just tell me honestly, your class senior or other talented persons u mentioned, were they dependent on reservation only ?

    Listen buddy, i am not against the reservation but against the reservation on the basis of castism. If reservation is there that must be for every community otherwise no reservation. The reservation policy after the independence is still unchanged since the British rule and since last approx 60 years. It needs revision and should be according to the present scenario otherwise it must be demolished. It should be totally on economic basis and rural/urban basis otherwise it is insignificant.

    Ok what you think if we Jat's get reservation the poor jats living in villeges and in remore areas will be benefitted. I don't think so. The people who are already having nice life are going to take benefit from that only.

    I can understand your feelings and point of views buddy, but you know the Indian system and the reservation doesn't going to help by any means to the poors peoples whether thay are jats or from any other community.
    It's better to be alone than in a bad company.

  10. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by vijay View Post
    Arun,

    Just tell me honestly, your class senior or other talented persons u mentioned, were they dependent on reservation only ?

    Listen buddy, i am not against the reservation but against the reservation on the basis of castism. If reservation is there that must be for every community otherwise no reservation. The reservation policy after the independence is still unchanged since the British rule and since last approx 60 years. It needs revision and should be according to the present scenario otherwise it must be demolished. It should be totally on economic basis and rural/urban basis otherwise it is insignificant.

    Ok what you think if we Jat's get reservation the poor jats living in villeges and in remore areas will be benefitted. I don't think so. The people who are already having nice life are going to take benefit from that only.

    I can understand your feelings and point of views buddy, but you know the Indian system and the reservation doesn't going to help by any means to the poors peoples whether thay are jats or from any other community.
    Mr. Vijay
    By such ambiguous statements you are going to harm your own community only. Its only majority and power that reviews the status quo. Reservation of OBC is written on wall. Its upto you to break the wall by your head or to break your own head by hitting it on the wall.

  11. #171
    [quote=raj2rif;117082]
    Quote Originally Posted by narenderkharb View Post
    Dear Mr. Kharab,


    Seondly: Pampered sections. Who are these pempered sections. Are they all on caste basis? Are all Brahmins are rich? Are all SC/ST people poor? Do all Brahmins live in metros and no SC/ST lives in metros? These are the issues which are self negating for your argument

    If % of marks scored in an exam is not the true measure of the talent, then probably that is the issue that needs to be discussed. It means system is faulty. I see no fundamental fault in my argument,



    Here it looks to me confusion. On one side you want to provide equal opportunities to the youth, and at the same time you want reservation based on Caste. Don't you think it is contradictory to the basic argument of yours.
    Let me assure you, the moment people get into reservation, there is a likelyhood, of more people stop working hard, because they might feel that little work may get them to the objective.
    Dear Col Teawatia

    Pampered sections..

    Though being a senior members i didn't want to tell you as you know more yet if you wish than let me tell you that historically certain sections of populations have been able to skim off opportunities for resons other than talent.Reasons varied from traditional business and influence,social structure to royal patronage and active collobration with foregin rulers .These groups maintained a grip on system and enjoyed with out hard work or talent .Examples are numerous as Mahajans whom turks called the real rulers in thirtenth century,jetmalanis whose grand grand father was a diwan and than son ditched their own state for british and now enjoy ministership without fighting elections some well known examples are infront of us even to mention.

    Now let us move to your second point..

    While thinking of a big country we can'nt speak in absolute terms .Govt talks in stastical terms where a majority of group falls in one category and avoiding stastical variations that can be avoided .For example while deciding a backward area for industry we find some industries even in barwala or jind but does that make it a forward area and does govt should look for a area where there is absolutely no industry.Govt has to go for stastical evaluations if it wants to do some thing.So we can only talk of in terms of a majority group.

    And we from the begining agree that there can be improvement by allowing economical weaker sections from other groups there is no confusion on that but for that shall we even not raise our own demand?What is the rational behind that.

    And again I will ask you to change this mindset that all people who got admisson via OBC are less talented than any one else, as you might have noted that present system is not the true reflection of talent .I assure you that you can go tension free to any doctor from reserved category.

    Your last observation that if given reservation we will not work hard as things will come easily to us sums up your oppostion to it till now but defies all logic.

    Col saheb if one thinks it is so easy than he might be in a fools paradise as there is a stiff competition with in reserved category also where so many people will be applying one who is lax will be eliminated in competition on very first round.

    Idea of reservation is not against competition but a machanism where best people from all sections could come up in service of nation in stead of 20 % getting 80% seats.

    You might have seen some big buffalows not allowing other to eat SANI in a common KHOR ,reservation is just providing two or three KHORS so that other can also fill their stomach

    I hope you will agree and understand.

  12. #172
    Gents,

    Your anger and frustration is understandable. But I think this thread is loosing its relevance. Mostly, I see same set of people arguing with each other with mostly same old arguments repeatedly. Pardon me, but I don't think most people here have much power to hand you over the reservation. If you want reservation you will have to do some real work, may be hard work too.

    I believe you guys wanted some suggestions, right? As for one, I would suggest you guys to do some homework and mathwork. If numbers show that Jats are going to reap most benefit out of reservation then take those data and show to your politicians. You need to work towards it to get it.

    If the objective of this thread was to take a poll, I think pulse of majority is towards Yes. To be explicit why don't you take a Yes, No poll. And one more thing, don't expect consensus. Democracy and Consensus are like Saas-Bahu. And I would leave Jats alone for that matter. -

    Those with too much free time at hand please continue with "meri taang uuper, teri taang neeche". Sorry for the disruption (taang ardane ke liye)...-

  13. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by vijay View Post
    Arun,

    Just tell me honestly, your class senior or other talented persons u mentioned, were they dependent on reservation only ?

    Listen buddy, i am not against the reservation but against the reservation on the basis of castism. If reservation is there that must be for every community otherwise no reservation. The reservation policy after the independence is still unchanged since the British rule and since last approx 60 years. It needs revision and should be according to the present scenario otherwise it must be demolished. It should be totally on economic basis and rural/urban basis otherwise it is insignificant.

    Ok what you think if we Jat's get reservation the poor jats living in villeges and in remore areas will be benefitted. I don't think so. The people who are already having nice life are going to take benefit from that only.

    I can understand your feelings and point of views buddy, but you know the Indian system and the reservation doesn't going to help by any means to the poors peoples whether thay are jats or from any other community.
    You are free to break your head by hitting it on the wall, but for His sake, dnt excite the younger generation of Jats to do so. As you must have been seeing that inspite of all the desperate efforts like you ignorant/self destructive people or too smart people who are issuing such statements here inspite of knowledge of all the facts that are so apparent, reservation for OBC could not be stopped and it can never be.

    Why dnt you see that your own Jat Chaudhary Charan Singh was responsible for that. When he died his bank balance was only Rs. 12000/- only. Out of all the people who are opposing reservation here, whether any body has this bank balance?

    He said that "ASLI BHARAT shahar me nahin gaon me rahta hai"

    If you increase the purchasing power of villagers then City's will automatically rise. If you make 80% people of India well to do then they will automatically take care of remaining 20% people. They will automatically see that who among these 20% minority people are poor and they will certainly take care of them.

  14. #174
    Quote Originally Posted by sanjeevm View Post
    Gents,



    I believe you guys wanted some suggestions, right? As for one, I would suggest you guys to do some homework and mathwork. If numbers show that Jats are going to reap most benefit out of reservation then take those data and show to your politicians. You need to work towards it to get it.

    If the objective of this thread was to take a poll, I think pulse of majority is towards Yes. To be explicit why don't you take a Yes, No poll. And one more thing, don't expect consensus. Democracy and Consensus are like Saas-Bahu. And I would leave Jats alone for that matter. -
    That was a nice idea.

    So we can now move on to phase two ....How can we get it..

    Let there be suggestions regarding this.

    As far as convincing jat political leaders is concerned it will be a waste of time as most of them don't have the guts to raise it.

    We can expect better results from organisations like Jat Mahasabha or Kisan unions.

  15. #175
    Dear Vijay, see my comments in bold characters.

    Just tell me honestly, your class senior or other talented persons u mentioned, were they dependent on reservation only ?

    No. they were not. But it did help them to get admission to a reputed institution.


    Listen buddy, i am not against the reservation but against the reservation on the basis of castism. If reservation is there that must be for every community otherwise no reservation.

    Not only Jats but all people living in the villages should get the reservation. lekin Vijay bhai apni ladai khud ladni hoti hai. that is why I support reservation for the Jats. But if you ask meri dili ichcha, I support reservation for all rural people. Bania, Jat, Brahaman, Chamar jo bhi ho sab ke liye.

    It should be totally on economic basis and rural/urban basis otherwise it is insignificant.

    If it is made on economic basis, most Jats will get it anyway. I am with you here. But this is practicaly impossible and never going to happen.


    Ok what you think if we Jat's get reservation the poor jats living in villeges and in remore areas will be benefitted. I don't think so. The people who are already having nice life are going to take benefit from that only.

    I agree with you, some people who really do not need it, will start using it. But then, you can never make a perfect system. kuch toh loophole raha hee jate hain yar. Can you think of a system which is not being misused. but overall many rural people will also get benefit from it. This is what I think.

  16. #176
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    Quote Originally Posted by sanjeevm View Post
    Col. Saheb you said "To me working hard at the opportune time is also working smart." and I don't derate that. I think many people are trying to say the same. This may be the "opportune time".

    Expanding a bit on hard work. Hard work alone "may" not be sufficient for an opportunity to realize. One should also be able to use and choose from the best available tools to be successful. For instance, if one were to send to fight an enemy and given a choice between AK47 and Lathi, which one, one would pick? The one requires less and smart work or hard work?

    Rowdy kids is a different topic. But talking of them, well, they make bad choices due to apparent reasons. By the time they realize that they've lost very important part of their life, some give up and blame the system. I have also seen some of them didn't give up and took different career path and are very successful, in fact, far more than those who got 90-100% marks in book exams. I have had very close and extremely rowdy friends whom lie in both sides of fence. To me that is just a matter of choice.
    Reservation to SC/ST was given when they were at the bottom. After 30-40 years OBC realised that upper caste system is same over their head. Downwards also are not at bottom, but their superiors. Like Dr. Tewatia said that a peon OBC is offering water to a man of less competent man from reserved category. Then OBC woke up that no they should not be at bottom but must fight and they won. Then is a turn for Jat. Now Jat is at bottom. Now, had anybody (non-Jat) advocated that they should remain so and continue to fight like this, I would not have been surprised. But to my surprise, Jats here, themselves, advocating this philosophy here, against their own kins-folk, really surprises me that Jat does not know very simple calculations of primary school.

    JAT: SOLAH DOONI AATTH

  17. #177
    Quote Originally Posted by narenderkharb View Post
    You might have seen some big buffalows not allowing other to eat SANI in a common KHOR ,reservation is just providing two or three KHORS so that other can also fill their stomach
    ha..haaaa
    udaharan bee kati jattu :D :D
    haassii roke te nee ruk rhee Narendar bhai.

  18. #178
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    Post News Search: Jat leaders meet Sonia Gandhi - Hindu

    Jat leaders meet Sonia Gandhi
    Hindu, India - 36 minutes ago
    ... These included allowing reservations for Jats at the Central level along the lines of reservation they have been given in Rajasthan. ...


    More...

  19. #179
    Quote Originally Posted by drblchowdhary View Post
    Reservation to SC/ST was given when they were at the bottom. After 30-40 years OBC realised that upper caste system is same over their head. Downwards also are not at bottom, but their superiors. Like Dr. Tewatia said that a peon OBC is offering water to a man of less competent man from reserved category. Then OBC woke up that no they should not be at bottom but must fight and they won. Then is a turn for Jat. Now Jat is at bottom. Now, had anybody (non-Jat) advocated that they should remain so and continue to fight like this, I would not have been surprised. But to my surprise, Jats here, themselves, advocating this philosophy here, against their own kins-folk, really surprises me that Jat does not know very simple calculations of primary school.

    JAT: SOLAH DOONI AATTH
    ================================================== ========

    I and my kids didn't benefit why should you and your kids? If I and my kids had to work hard why can't you and your kids?

    Damn, when I am done and now you are talking about reservation? I can't benefit, I won't support.

    And yes, I am blindsided with a very little success and in the illusion that I am on the top of the world.

    JAT: "GadTumba kha Jya and Meetha Batave".

  20. #180
    Quote Originally Posted by arunshamli View Post
    Dear Vijay, see my comments in bold characters.

    Just tell me honestly, your class senior or other talented persons u mentioned, were they dependent on reservation only ?

    No. they were not. But it did help them to get admission to a reputed institution.


    Listen buddy, i am not against the reservation but against the reservation on the basis of castism. If reservation is there that must be for every community otherwise no reservation.

    Not only Jats but all people living in the villages should get the reservation. lekin Vijay bhai apni ladai khud ladni hoti hai. that is why I support reservation for the Jats. But if you ask meri dili ichcha, I support reservation for all rural people. Bania, Jat, Brahaman, Chamar jo bhi ho sab ke liye.

    It should be totally on economic basis and rural/urban basis otherwise it is insignificant.

    If it is made on economic basis, most Jats will get it anyway. I am with you here. But this is practicaly impossible and never going to happen.


    Ok what you think if we Jat's get reservation the poor jats living in villeges and in remore areas will be benefitted. I don't think so. The people who are already having nice life are going to take benefit from that only.

    I agree with you, some people who really do not need it, will start using it. But then, you can never make a perfect system. kuch toh loophole raha hee jate hain yar. Can you think of a system which is not being misused. but overall many rural people will also get benefit from it. This is what I think.
    Hi Vijay

    Your points were really genuine and I hope the answers which Arun gave are honest answers echoing the thoughts of almost all jats.

    We have to fight our own battle and choose best possible option out of a nonexistant utopian state.

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